GDT: SLU v. Wichita State

[billiken_roy]

Agree.   At that level he needs some backup.   That's why I think the blame is to be shared.

[gobillsgo]

5 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

Do you really think the biggest contract in Billiken history the highest paid employee at SLU and probably top 5 in the state university wise is a decision by Chris May alone?    

He may have recommended, but I'm guessing our BoT made that final decision. 

It doesn’t really matter if it was May’s decision alone, when the biggest athletics program at the university is being made into a laughing stock, and the coach can’t be removed, the AD should probably be removed.  Or we can just twirl our thumbs for 15 years until Ford gets bored and rides off into the sunset.  

[billiken_roy]

Once again you make a ridiculous statement.  If the Billikens are a laughingstock, so are over 200 other Division 1 college basketball programs.   

Disappointing, underachievers, comes to mind and I don't even respond.   

You are fast becoming a laughingstock MBM imo.

[TheA_Bomb]

12 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

Agree.   At that level he needs some backup.   That's why I think the blame is to be shared.

There's a lot of blame to go around. But who drafted this contract? Who agreed to the salary? Who agreed to an extension/ extension clause? It's bad, and I'm sure the BoT had to sign off but May is the main advisor to the president and board on all things athletics.  He's been very poor in the biggest part of the AD.

[TheA_Bomb]

10 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

It doesn’t really matter if it was May’s decision alone, when the biggest athletics program at the university is being made into a laughing stock, and the coach can’t be removed, the AD should probably be removed.  Or we can just twirl our thumbs for 15 years until Ford gets bored and rides off into the sunset.  

We're not a laughing stock because SLU is irrelevant.  That's the saddest part.  Ford is just good enough to convince some he can coach. But the trend is bad.  

The right coach can take the ingredients we have and make SLU relevant. 

[Pistol]

6 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

Once again you make a ridiculous statement.  If the Billikens are a laughingstock, so are over 200 other Division 1 college basketball programs.   

Disappointing, underachievers, comes to mind and I don't even respond.   

You are fast becoming a laughingstock MBM imo.

SLU is #148 in KenPom's ratings as of today. You're right in that there are 215 programs ranked behind SLU.

However, there is the small issue of expectations. How many of those 215 pay their head coach $2.5 million/year? How many of them are in a conference as strong as the A10 most seasons? How many of them have comparable facilities?

I don't want to get complacent by looking down. From the outside, we fund our MBB program like a top-60 team. We keep finishing well outside that tier, though.

"Laughingstock" isn't my word for this team, at least not at this point. So that's fair. But "disappointing underachievers" is unfortunately becoming the norm for this program.

[billiken_roy]

And as I said, I wouldn't have said a thing with "disappointing underachievers".

[Lord Elrond]

8 minutes ago, Pistol said:

SLU is #148 in KenPom's ratings as of today. You're right in that there are 215 programs ranked behind SLU.

However, there is the small issue of expectations. How many of those 215 pay their head coach $2.5 million/year? How many of them are in a conference as strong as the A10 most seasons? How many of them have comparable facilities?

I don't want to get complacent by looking down. From the outside, we fund our MBB program like a top-60 team. We keep finishing well outside that tier, though.

"Laughingstock" isn't my word for this team, at least not at this point. So that's fair. But "disappointing underachievers" is unfortunately becoming the norm for this program.

The depressing thing is that as of today, per Kenpom, the only non-conference opponent we play with a lower ranking than us is Dartmouth at 320, everyone else on our schedule is ranked above us.

[Pistol]

6 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

And as I said, I wouldn't have said a thing with "disappointing underachievers".

People are going to have their word choices and levels of reaction to this team, and I guess I'm not that compelled by the semantics of it. The reasoning behind those word choices seems genuine, though.

[gobillsgo]

22 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

Once again you make a ridiculous statement.  If the Billikens are a laughingstock, so are over 200 other Division 1 college basketball programs.   

Disappointing, underachievers, comes to mind and I don't even respond.   

You are fast becoming a laughingstock MBM imo.

How many of those other 200 Division 1 programs have our facilities or pay their coach what we pay?   We have been completely non-competitive in our last two games agains mediocre/average at best teams.  The final scores were not close to being indicative of how comfortable those games were for our opponents.  But hey, feel free to keep your head in the sand about the direction of this program. 

[wgstl]

We shouldn’t be compared with 350 D1 teams. It’s mainly top 200 at most. I’d like to think more of 175

[TheA_Bomb]

3 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

How many of those other 200 Division 1 programs have our facilities or pay their coach what we pay?   We have been completely non-competitive in our last two games agains mediocre/average at best teams.  The final scores were not close to being indicative of how comfortable those games were for our opponents.  But hey, feel free to keep your head in the sand about the direction of this program. 

B-Roy knows the state of the program.  He just doesn't like his school being called a laughing stock. 

I think most of us are in agreement the trend is bad.  Once upon a time we thought,  "man if we just had an on campus arena and chartered flights we could be something....."

We have it. No more excuses for SLU. Win or find someone who can

[Pistol]

2 minutes ago, wgstl said:

We shouldn’t be compared with 350 D1 teams. It’s mainly top 200 at most. I’d like to think more of 175

If you're fine with top 175, then we're still technically within those bounds right now.

Take the 1 off the front of that number and that's the level we should be in.

[cgeldmacher]

13 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

How many of those other 200 Division 1 programs have our facilities or pay their coach what we pay?   We have been completely non-competitive in our last two games agains mediocre/average at best teams.  The final scores were not close to being indicative of how comfortable those games were for our opponents.  But hey, feel free to keep your head in the sand about the direction of this program. 

See, this is where this board always goes awry.  I think Billiken Roy and other similar posters, myself included, would all say that this team is disappointing and underachieving given the investment in the program.  We also agree that changes are probably coming.  Please take a second for that to digest.  Yes, we agree.  We don't have our heads in the sand.

However, if you are not of the opinion that this team is a "laughing stock" a certain segment of this board melts down.  "How dare you think this team is just disappointing and underachieving.  If you you don't agree with me that this team should be labeled a laughing stock, you are an idiot, sir."

Roy's issue was not with the assessment of the team or the program.  His issue is with the hyperbole that gets crammed down this board's throat after every loss.  It really gets annoying.  Please understand that we see the same things that you are seeing.

[wgstl]

4 minutes ago, Pistol said:

If you're fine with top 175, then we're still technically within those bounds right now.

Take the 1 off the front of that number and that's the level we should be in.

Ya but we’re getting close to the end. It just doesn’t make sense to be compared to NJIt

[majerus mojo]

7 hours ago, slufan13 said:

This team is bad with or without the excuses

We are 3-2 (or 4-2 if you're Chris May). We would he 3-2 even with a healthy Parker and two eligible big men. 

I'm sure Ford will be around for a long time. Our big donors love mediocrity.

It is such loser/anonymous internet behavior to ***** and moan about our big donors not bailing us out of every situation. This is the AD's problem

[majerus mojo]

17 hours ago, brianstl said:

Players aren’t automatically going to leave because the coach changes. Those days are over.  You offer the right package to a kid and they will stay.  If you don’t, they are gone regardless of what you do with Ford.

I mean, most of them will leave though, right? I would guess Thames and Larry Jr. might be the most-likely to stick around given they are from the area, but wouldn't hold my breath for anyone else.

Not that there would be any huge losses, but I wouldn't mind seeing Bruce, Curcic, and Medley develop a bit more 

[gobillsgo]

1 minute ago, cgeldmacher said:

See, this is where this board always goes awry.  I think Billiken Roy and other similar posters, myself included, would all say that this team is disappointing and underachieving given the investment in the program.  We also agree that changes are probably coming.  Please take a second for that to digest.  Yes, we agree.

However, if you are not of the opinion that this team is a "laughing stock" a certain segment of this board melts down.  "How dare you think this team is just disappointing and underachieving.  If you you don't agree with me that this team should be labeled a laughing stock, you are an idiot, sir."

Roy's issue was not with the assessment of the team or the program.  His issue is with the hyperbole that gets crammed down this board's throat after every loss.  It really gets annoying.  Please understand that we see the same things that you are seeing.

When I see the same things still happening that we have seen for 7+ years under Ford, I have to laugh so I don’t cry.   If you don’t think it’s laughable, that’s fine.  You’re welcome to your opinion.  But we’ve seen what this program is capable of with the right leader.  We are so so far from that… we haven’t beaten a ranked team EVER under Ford.  Fan pressure is one of the main things that drives decision making in college sports.  I won’t sit by and bite my tongue in order to not offend a few people with my wording. 

[cgeldmacher]

7 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

When I see the same things still happening that we have seen for 7+ years under Ford, I have to laugh so I don’t cry.   If you don’t think it’s laughable, that’s fine.  You’re welcome to your opinion.  But we’ve seen what this program is capable of with the right leader.  We are so so far from that… we haven’t beaten a ranked team EVER under Ford.  Fan pressure is one of the main things that drives decision making in college sports.  I won’t sit by and bite my tongue in order to not offend a few people with my wording. 

I get it, but don't attack those that, for the most part, agree with you just because they don't choose to use that sort of verbiage in the hopes that some decision maker reads this board.  I am not happy with where the program is.  However, I don't think this program is a laughing stock.  Go ahead and be upset. Go ahead and be over the top.  You're a fan and passionate about the Billikens.  Have at it.  My issue is with those that think they need to direct their ire at other Billiken fans that are just as upset about the state of the program, but not just not losing their heads about it.

[Lord Elrond]

18 minutes ago, wgstl said:

Ya but we’re getting close to the end. It just doesn’t make sense to be compared to NJIt

Right now SLU is at 148, the two ahead of us are 146 - Hofstra, 147 - Western Kentucky. Right behind us is 149 - Winthrop, 150 - Lipscomb. If you are interested, teams ranked higher than us include SIU-C , Harvard, and Vanderbilt. That seems to be where we are at. 

[gobillsgo]

6 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I get it, but don't attack those that, for the most part, agree with you just because they don't choose to use that sort of verbiage in the hopes that some decision maker reads this board.  I am not happy with where the program is.  However, I don't think this program is a laughing stock.  Go ahead and be upset. Go ahead and be over the top.  You're a fan and passionate about the Billikens.  Have at it.  My issue is with those that think they need to direct their ire at other Billiken fans that are just as upset about the state of the program, but not just not losing their heads about it.

I think you may need to go back and re-read the posts to see who was attacking who.  I have no problem with Roy, he is the one hyperfocused on the wording of my posts. 

[Schasz]

While I continue to mourn the loss of Shari...I think many of you know where I stand on CTF, and trust me I have not changed my opinion one iota!!!

[Soderball]

4 hours ago, wgstl said:

Im not saying he needs to be a good rebounder, just not a bad rebounder.  7'1 and his 40 min average is 4.3 rebounds. Only Cian is worse at 2.5 rebounds per 40.

 

Also, apparently I've missed a few of Bruce's shot selections, I do not recall him attempting 6 shots from "deep 2".  Last night was the first time Ive seen that. 

Imo having Bruce out there makes it easier for other guys to rebound. My eye test is that we are better at securing the ball when he is on the court. He can deflect it or otherwise swat it away.

Bigger problem: 30 minutes a game our tallest guy is an iffy 6-5. That's ridiculous. That's Ford's fault and it is horrendous. He needs to go.

[Soderball]

52 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

See, this is where this board always goes awry.  I think Billiken Roy and other similar posters, myself included, would all say that this team is disappointing and underachieving given the investment in the program.  We also agree that changes are probably coming.  Please take a second for that to digest.  Yes, we agree.  We don't have our heads in the sand.

However, if you are not of the opinion that this team is a "laughing stock" a certain segment of this board melts down.  "How dare you think this team is just disappointing and underachieving.  If you you don't agree with me that this team should be labeled a laughing stock, you are an idiot, sir."

Roy's issue was not with the assessment of the team or the program.  His issue is with the hyperbole that gets crammed down this board's throat after every loss.  It really gets annoying.  Please understand that we see the same things that you are seeing.

Honestly? It's fear. Fear that he will continue to be here and get contract extensions. It took two years of 10-win Crewsplatt teams to get that joker outta here.

The hyperbole comes from a place of urgency. It comes from years of bad basketball pushed by the administration not having a commitment to winning and no tolerance for failure.

XU would not put up with this. Neither would Marquette. Dayton fired Brian Gregory for only making NIT bids. We can't even make the NIT. I'd be happy and defending NIT bids, but we are not only not top 50, we aren't top 100. This sucks.

[NextYearBill]

Stop acting like Bruce is the second coming. It’s like fawning over a good Milik Yarbrough drive. This team has bottomed hard.  TFord says we don’t rebuild, we remix Lolllllllll. 
 

TFord was a great hire at the time, but it’s ran its course.