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Buffalo has only played 20 games, and they sit on the first 4 out of the NIT.  #71 Net, they return 4/5 starters next year, so they may want to make the NIT.  May end up being a Q1

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And Whitesell is their coach

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1 hour ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Can St. John's vs. Seton Hall end in a Tie, or a Double Forfeit? 

Wouldn’t that be nice.  Everything I read says St John’s needs more help than Seton Hall so I guess I’m pulling for the Red Storm and then for them to lose next round! 

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Still don’t know why Davidson isn’t a viable game. Also, we want NC State to beat ‘Cuse for lots of reasons, but I doubt seriously if Boeheim would agree to a game should they lose. Now, if State loses, let’s get a rematch in Raleigh.

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Another thing re the NIT:  It never looks good this week when you're trying/hoping/lobbying to get in the NCAA.  But once the NIT begins, you want to win it.  SLU won in with Easy Ed in '48 (when the NIT was considered the National Championship) and has finished as the runner-up three times, in '61 under Coach John Bennington (I was an infant), in '89 and '90 under Coach Rich Grawer.

Those 2 NIT runner-ups under Coach Rich Grawer in '89 and '90 were special.  The Billikens were on National TV at a time when they were barely on TV nationally.  Out here on the Left Coast, I was largely in the dark during the regular season, looked for the one line score in the SF Examiner.  We won at Wisconsin and beat Michigan State at Madison Square Garden in the NIT semifinals.  I recall watching that Michigan State game at a San Francisco establishment.  We wanted to win, badly.  We fell just short, twice, once by 8 to St. John's, which was playing on its 2nd home court, the other to Vanderbilt 74-72.

And after the NIT is over, as one looks back on the seasons, being in the NIT was/is a good thing, a positive.

This being said, there is nothing in all of sports, in my opinion, like seeing your team play in the NCAA Tournament. (I was personally present for Game 6 of the '11 World Series, which ranks up there too.)

The Billikens, we're the ultimate underdogs.  They represent my alma mater, my school, and I'm very proud of both the school and the team.

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I am pessimistic about our chances of getting a bid and hoping a few bubbles pop in conference tournaments.  Thanks for those doing the legwork and posting updates on other bubble teams. 

I think winning another game would help, but Coach Ford is not clutch in must win games. A cursory look at his HC record, reveals 3 conference championships in 24 seasons (1 regular season champ, 2 tournament champ).  He has a few conference season upsets of KU.  1 NIT Runner Up, 2 all time NCAA wins.  Maybe this season COVID is to blame.  I'm starting to suspect Coach Ford is who many thought he was when hired, a dude that recruits well but doesn't produce the results you'd expect.  I'd take Porter Moser over him. So adding another game I'd bet against SLU winning especially on the road. 

I disagree with B Roy on 1 point but it's a matter of perspective, he says SLU makes bad coaching hires.  While that's true over all time but in the past 30 years, I think it's been decent.   Crews, Soderbergh were bad but Spoon, Romar and Majerus were good.  I think Ford is worth the risk and TBD if good but certainly better than we had. 

That said......

Come on other bubbles pop, get that bid and Ford make me look like a negative Nancy by winning big!

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28 minutes ago, billikenbill said:

Still don’t know why Davidson isn’t a viable game. Also, we want NC State to beat ‘Cuse for lots of reasons, but I doubt seriously if Boeheim would agree to a game should they lose. Now, if State loses, let’s get a rematch in Raleigh.

Davidson should be a viable game.  The A10 should help/intervene.

Perhaps Davidson (NET 62) wants to protect its NIT Bid, and therefore would not be in favor of playing SLU.

The issue for me with playing this extra game is SLU must win it.  We don't know which SLU team will show up.  This extra game seems like gambling.  If we are really First 4 OUT, we probably have no other choice.  Sitting idle isn't going to move any needle, is it?  But St. Mary's experience (x2) is that the extra game did nothing.

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I really think a Q2 game (especially on the road) would put us over the hump. We need a road win and only having 2 wins against Q2 teams is (and should be) a knock on us. I know Ford wants to get a Syracuse or a Colorado St or somebody like that but it's just seems unlikely to happen. And if those teams do lose early, do you even want to play them? If they lose, we move up the bubble. Wright St and Missouri St aren't sexy but they are viable options in my opinion. Maybe you can get a bubble team that loses on Wednesday/Thursday and get them for a quick turnaround game Saturday/Sunday but seems like a stretch especially given covid protocols. I don't see us getting in without a game so even a low-end Q2 game gives us a fighting chance in my opinion. Hope I'm wrong and the committee loves us and we get some bubble luck.

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16 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Davidson should be a viable game.  The A10 should help/intervene.

Perhaps Davidson (NET 62) wants to protect its NIT Bid, and therefore not be in favor of playing SLU.

The issue for me with playing this extra game is SLU must win it.  We don't know which SLU team will show up.  This extra game seems like gambling.  If we are really First 4 OUT, we probably have no other choice.  Sitting idle isn't going to move any needle, is it?  But St. Mary's experience (x2) is that the extra game did nothing.

I dont see Davidson having enough of a reason to play this game. They sit comfortably in the NIT. 

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1 minute ago, slufan13 said:

I really think a Q2 game (especially on the road) would put us over the hump. We need a road win and only having 2 wins against Q2 teams is (and should be) a knock on us. I know Ford wants to get a Syracuse or a Colorado St or somebody like that but it's just seems unlikely to happen. And if those teams do lose early, do you even want to play them? If they lose, we move up the bubble. Wright St and Missouri St aren't sexy but they are viable options in my opinion. Maybe you can get a bubble team that loses on Wednesday/Thursday and get them for a quick turnaround game Saturday/Sunday but seems like a stretch especially given covid protocols. I don't see us getting in without a game so even a low-end Q2 game gives us a fighting chance in my opinion. Hope I'm wrong and the committee loves us and we get some bubble luck.

Im all in for ugly, yet very winnable Q1 games. 

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32 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

But once the NIT begins, you want to win it.  

And after the NIT is over, as one looks back on the seasons, being in the NIT was/is a good thing, a positive.

The Billikens, we're the ultimate underdogs.  They represent my alma mater, my school, and I'm very proud of both the school and the team.

Co-sign, and I felt very much the same when we played in the 2010 CBI. I will gladly use any excuse to see our Billikens play more, particularly in a tournament format. Give some of the younger guys more of a chance to gel and use this as a springboard like the CBI did for Kwamain, Conk Diesel, and Cody.

"They represent my alma mater, my school, and I'm very proud of both the school and the team." This, over and over and over.

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To me the only reason to decline the NIT is if we are still having serious lasting covid effects. And maybe we do have some guys like that based on our play post-covid. If there is anything like that, I would say you have to decline the invite. But I'll let our staff make that determination. Otherwise I say play whatever basketball you can. This may make us less competitive but I also take a handful of minutes from Goodwin and French to let all the younger guys get more game reps.

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8 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Davidson should be a viable game.  The A10 should help/intervene.

With NET of 62 (and 0-4 Q1) they're out of the Dance as we know. A10 would try to help, I'm sure. There would probably be better games for us, but I like it.

Currently, Davidson is projected to be in the NIT but towards the bottom, the last 3-seed, the 11th team of 16. There's a possibility those towards bottom could get pushed out as upsets happen this week, particularly conference champs who don't win their conference tourneys. So... if they're interested in playing in the NIT, they could be motivated to solidify their NIT standing, plus stay warm vs a 10+ day layoff. On other hand, losing to us would push them out. And given tough Covid season, players separated from families, etc., they may politely say no thanks to A-10.

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I have no problem admitting I am wrong, and my take on not playing the NIT is probably a dumb reaction to a season that kinda went off the rails. Playing is probably our best bet if offered...if for no other reason than the NCAA wouldn’t have that bullet in the gun to screw us in another season.

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In a random piece of Billikens.com trivia, one of highest search engine traffic terms was something like "NIT Selection Show."  One year, when were clearly not making the tournament but had a viable shot at the NIT we had a thread that discussed the NIT for at least a week before the NIT was picked - so search engines had time to index the thread.

After the NCAA selection show, everyone Googled NIT Selection Show and Billikens.com was the first hit.

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10 minutes ago, SluSignGuy said:

In a random piece of Billikens.com trivia, one of highest search engine traffic terms was something like "NIT Selection Show."  One year, when were clearly not making the tournament but had a viable shot at the NIT we had a thread that discussed the NIT for at least a week before the NIT was picked - so search engines had time to index the thread.

After the NCAA selection show, everyone Googled NIT Selection Show and Billikens.com was the first hit.

-so you monetized this and that's how you bought your estate on Jupiter Island next to Tiger's?

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19 minutes ago, SluSignGuy said:

In a random piece of Billikens.com trivia, one of highest search engine traffic terms was something like "NIT Selection Show."  One year, when were clearly not making the tournament but had a viable shot at the NIT we had a thread that discussed the NIT for at least a week before the NIT was picked - so search engines had time to index the thread.

After the NCAA selection show, everyone Googled NIT Selection Show and Billikens.com was the first hit.

I think it was Brad Soderberg's last year in which SLU had an NIT qualifying RPI, but got snubbed by the NIT.  I was not a happy camper.

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40 minutes ago, Adman said:

With NET of 62 (and 0-4 Q1) they're out of the Dance as we know. A10 would try to help, I'm sure. There would probably be better games for us, but I like it.

Currently, Davidson is projected to be in the NIT but towards the bottom, the last 3-seed, the 11th team of 16. There's a possibility those towards bottom could get pushed out as upsets happen this week, particularly conference champs who don't win their conference tourneys. So... if they're interested in playing in the NIT, they could be motivated to solidify their NIT standing, plus stay warm vs a 10+ day layoff. On other hand, losing to us would push them out. And given tough Covid season, players separated from families, etc., they may politely say no thanks to A-10.

Giving credit to slufan13 on the thought, I was finally moved to look up this Quad 1, Quad 2 stuff.

The teams who have completed their conference tournaments who could give SLU a Quad 1 road game (1-75 Road is Quad 1) would be 62 Davidson, 70 Richmond, 72 Wright State, and 75 Furman.  Two of them are in our A10 ...

The contra for this group is a home loss to SLU could knock them right out of the NIT.  So can they be given some type of reward for playing us?

Furman at 75 is the 2nd team OUT of the NIT per today's NET.  So Furman would have the most incentive to play SLU.  But from SLU's perspective, the NET is fluid.  Furman is right on that 75 line today, could easily drop to Quad 2 any night.  Then the game would not carry the same weight for SLU.

Richmond at 70 may be on an NIT bubble.  Perhaps there is, ironically given this season's aborted game there, the final answer.  

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13 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-so you monetized this and that's how you bought your estate on Jupiter Island next to Tiger's?

50wm4f.jpg

 

 

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1 minute ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Giving credit to slufan13 on the thought, I was finally moved to look up this Quad 1, Quad 2 stuff.

The teams who have completed their conference tournaments who could give SLU a Quad 1 road game (1-75 Road is Quad 1) would be 62 Davidson, 70 Richmond, 72 Wright State, and 75 Furman.  Two of them are in our A10 ...

The contra for this group is a home loss to SLU could knock them right out of the NIT.  So can they be given some type of reward for playing us?

Everyone obsesses about Quad 1 and Quad 2 wins and whatnot and acts like that is all that matters. Do people really think the selection committee can't distinguish between beating the number 3 team in the country on the road and beating the number 75 team on the road? Both are quad 1 wins but clearly are unequal.

Trying to manipulate the system by playing teams ranked 70-75 on the road isn't going to move the needle much, if at all. Heck, if you go on the road and spank one of those teams they'll drop so far in the NET that they won't be a Quad 1 win any more!

We should be playing two games this week. One should be tomorrow and the other should be Friday. Decent opponents but don't get hung up on the details. Failure to act because we are looking for the "perfect" opponent is disappointing on SLU's part.

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24 minutes ago, kshoe said:

Everyone obsesses about Quad 1 and Quad 2 wins and whatnot and acts like that is all that matters. Do people really think the selection committee can't distinguish between beating the number 3 team in the country on the road and beating the number 75 team on the road? Both are quad 1 wins but clearly are unequal.

Trying to manipulate the system by playing teams ranked 70-75 on the road isn't going to move the needle much, if at all. Heck, if you go on the road and spank one of those teams they'll drop so far in the NET that they won't be a Quad 1 win any more!

We should be playing two games this week. One should be tomorrow and the other should be Friday. Decent opponents but don't get hung up on the details. Failure to act because we are looking for the "perfect" opponent is disappointing on SLU's part.

Understood, but there are not many options out there.  I'm thinking Quad 1 Road primarily because the lack of road wins is what is held against SLU, at least that's what Jerry Palm of CBS says. (And regrettably, he's probably spot on correct.)  Quad 1 Road encompasses 1-75, meaning you're in the range of teams that might be (a) available and (b) willing to play us.  Teams participating in post-season tournaments this week are not even available this early in the week.

I keep going back to St. Mary's because I'm sitting in Pleasant Hill, CA, a stones throw away from Moraga, and I remember when St. Mary's played the extra game, in 2 different seasons, one being the year SMC star guard Patty Mills had just returned from injury.  The plan didn't work.  St. Mary's won both games, albeit against Big Sky opponents, but still wound up hosting First Round NIT games the following week.

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1 minute ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Understood, but there are not many options out there.  I'm thinking Quad 1 Road primarily because the lack of road wins is what is held against SLU, at least that's what Jerry Palm of CBS says. (And regrettably, he's probably spot on correct.)  Quad 1 Road encompasses 1-75, meaning you're in the range of teams that might be (a) available and (b) willing to play us.  Teams participating in post-season tournaments this week are not even available this early in the week.

Schedule a MVC team for Tuesday and try to get one of the early conference losers for Friday or Saturday. Or call Memphis to see if they'll play Tuesday before they play their first game on Friday? They may love the shot at a "Quad 1" win against us if they came to St. Louis.

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3 hours ago, kshoe said:

Schedule a MVC team for Tuesday and try to get one of the early conference losers for Friday or Saturday. Or call Memphis to see if they'll play Tuesday before they play their first game on Friday? They may love the shot at a "Quad 1" win against us if they came to St. Louis.

Exactly, why limit it to one game this week? Can't stand the Cubs, but as Ernie Banks said, let's play two.

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