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OT: MLS Announcement Tuesday: GOOOOOOL for STL.


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On 8/15/2020 at 7:08 AM, courtside said:

The interesting parts here are that Carolyn Kindle Betz and ownership, did not hire popular SLU alum and former CEO of U.S. Soccer Dan Flynn because she/hought and felt Flynn wanted too much control of the team in return.

The other is that Carolyn is the reason much of the colors are pink on pink. 

And there are no current plans to be affiliated with St. Louis FC. (It didn't cover NWSL)

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13 hours ago, Reinert310 said:

The highest attended college soccer game in the NCAA history was SLU vs SIUE at Busch Stadium.

That's a cool fact so I decided to look up all time attendance records (Link). Out of the top 10 attended NCAA soccer games in history, only 2 of them were not from a NCAA semi-final or final match. Those two are the #1 attended SLU/SIUE game at Busch that you mentioned (1980), and #7... also SLU vs SIUE at Busch (1973). In addition, 5 of those top 10 matches were NCAA semi-final double headers, so higher attendance was due to there being 4 different teams playing.

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2 hours ago, courtside said:

massive get.  Turned down the likes of Inter and Newcastle to come here. 

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You guys ever look into the MLS rules for salaries and contracts?  They are convoluted.

You can have 30 players; 1-20 slots count towards the salary cap $4.9mil. But the cap isn't really a cap as you can use General Allocation Money or Target Allocation Money to pay down contracts but only to a certain amount depending on the contract type and I don't think it's a dollar for dollar pay down.  A team can have 8 international players.  3 designated players are players over a certain amount of salary can also be international.   Up to 10 players don't have to count vs the cap such as Home Grown Players (see special rules) Generation Adidas players that are designated as such by the league but only in their initial contract.  There's up to 3 drafts the Superdraft of all college players, there's a draft of players that were waived at the end of the season and an expansion draft.  So you can trade players, draft picks, player slots (international, designated), allocation money and it can be wild.

Canadian teams have a few different rules.  If you want to play in the Canada cup you need 8 Canadian players to play.

Soooo convoluted.  Also it's a league that tries to focus on young talent but in the US you can't sign a player under 18 to a contract so big time wonderkids can be snapped up by a foreign club (not that we have too many). 

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2 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

You guys ever look into the MLS rules for salaries and contracts?  They are convoluted.

You can have 30 players; 1-20 slots count towards the salary cap $4.9mil. But the cap isn't really a cap as you can use General Allocation Money or Target Allocation Money to pay down contracts but only to a certain amount depending on the contract type and I don't think it's a dollar for dollar pay down.  A team can have 8 international players.  3 designated players are players over a certain amount of salary can also be international.   Up to 10 players don't have to count vs the cap such as Home Grown Players (see special rules) Generation Adidas players that are designated as such by the league but only in their initial contract.  There's up to 3 drafts the Superdraft of all college players, there's a draft of players that were waived at the end of the season and an expansion draft.  So you can trade players, draft picks, player slots (international, designated), allocation money and it can be wild.

Canadian teams have a few different rules.  If you want to play in the Canada cup you need 8 Canadian players to play.

Soooo convoluted.  Also it's a league that tries to focus on young talent but in the US you can't sign a player under 18 to a contract so big time wonderkids can be snapped up by a foreign club (not that we have too many). 

They are pretty convoluted rules, but your last point is incorrect. You can sign players  to a Homegrown contract before they are 18.  Teams are signing guys as young as 15 and 16 to HG deals these days to prevent exactly what you said... them leaving for European clubs for free when they turn 18.  The young players are not obligated to sign a HG deal however... Josh Sargent for example did not sign with Sporting KC, who owned his rights. He did not play for their academy, but he played within their “homegrown territory”— another convoluted rule. 

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2 hours ago, gobillsgo said:

They are pretty convoluted rules, but your last point is incorrect. You can sign players  to a Homegrown contract before they are 18.  Teams are signing guys as young as 15 and 16 to HG deals these days to prevent exactly what you said... them leaving for European clubs for free when they turn 18.  The young players are not obligated to sign a HG deal however... Josh Sargent for example did not sign with Sporting KC, who owned his rights. He did not play for their academy, but he played within their “homegrown territory”— another convoluted rule. 

The key in that paragraph being that the Hometown contracts only prevent the kids from going to Europe “for free”. Truly good young players are going to go to Europe, that’s just the way it is. And that makes sense. There is a reason the best basketball players come to the NBA even now that there are solid Euro leagues.  

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12 hours ago, ARon said:

The key in that paragraph being that the Hometown contracts only prevent the kids from going to Europe “for free”. Truly good young players are going to go to Europe, that’s just the way it is. And that makes sense. There is a reason the best basketball players come to the NBA even now that there are solid Euro leagues.  

Oh for sure... I wasn't arguing that.  Garber has even admitted that MLS needs to be a selling league in order to thrive.  The more success that young MLS exports have (Davies, Adams, Almiron), the more money MLS will start to receive.   Aaronson, Pomykal, Busio should be the next young Americans to move abroad.

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1 hour ago, gobillsgo said:

Haha I was referring to Brenden, but by some accounts Paxten may be better than his older brother.  

Ah, no clue who any of them are so just briefly looked it up, didn't know he had a brother too.  I'll have to start getting into american soccer system, its a shame I know more academy player in UK than US.

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6 hours ago, davidnark said:

Busio - it just doesn't make sense. Never seen a thing there. 

Brenden and Pomykal - future Bundesliga starters. Love both of their games. 

 

The interest in Busio seems to be mainly due to him having an Italian passport.  But he's also barely 18, and already has 30 MLS appearances.  He's far from a finished product.

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On 8/18/2020 at 8:45 PM, gobillsgo said:

They are pretty convoluted rules, but your last point is incorrect. You can sign players  to a Homegrown contract before they are 18.  Teams are signing guys as young as 15 and 16 to HG deals these days to prevent exactly what you said... them leaving for European clubs for free when they turn 18.  The young players are not obligated to sign a HG deal however... Josh Sargent for example did not sign with Sporting KC, who owned his rights. He did not play for their academy, but he played within their “homegrown territory”— another convoluted rule. 

Yes but doesn't that home grown contract end at 18?  So they aren't locked in and can bolt?

It's soooo confusing.  

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5 hours ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Yes but doesn't that home grown contract end at 18?  So they aren't locked in and can bolt?

It's soooo confusing.  

I’ve never heard of that being the case. In fact most homegrown contracts usually have a bunch of option years for the team that are specifically designed to prevent losing players for free.  Maybe you are thinking of Amateur “Academy Contracts” often used by teams like Saint Louis FC in USL?

you are correct that MLS rules are incredibly complex and confusing. I’m not even sure the league knows how to apply them correctly all the time which led to the introduction of things like TAM. 

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14 hours ago, gobillsgo said:

The interest in Busio seems to be mainly due to him having an Italian passport.  But he's also barely 18, and already has 30 MLS appearances.  He's far from a finished product.

Between the U-17 World Cup and SKC, I have probably seen Busio play 10 times. I don't see anything exceptional for an attacking player. His dribble is good, but not great. His passing is average. His speed is good, but not game-changing. His shot is good, but not great. I haven't seen him have much success trying to play direct. I keep hoping to see something and am always disappointed.

By contrast, every time I watched Pomykal and Brenden I am truly impressed with their skill and creativity on the ball in tight spaces and their vision to find teammates out of it. Plus, they both have engines that don't quit. They are both truly elite among North American players.

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9 minutes ago, davidnark said:

Between the U-17 World Cup and SKC, I have probably seen Busio play 10 times. I don't see anything exceptional for an attacking player. His dribble is good, but not great. His passing is average. His speed is good, but not game-changing. His shot is good, but not great. I haven't seen him have much success trying to play direct. I keep hoping to see something and am always disappointed.

By contrast, every time I watched Pomykal and Brenden I am truly impressed with their skill and creativity on the ball in tight spaces and their vision to find teammates out of it. Plus, they both have engines that don't quit. They are both truly elite among North American players.

I’d agree Pomykal and Aaronson have looked much better. I still think it’s important to keep in mind that Busio just turned 18.  Pomykal really didn’t do anything in the league until he turned 19, and Aaronson looked decent last year when he debuted at 18.  But he really broke out this year, in his age 19 season. Point being Busio is still very young and I’ve seen enough not to write him off. There’s a reason he’s been linked with major Euro clubs.  I definitely agree Aaronson and Pomykal are currently much more ready to move abroad. 
 

all in all, I’m just happy that, as a nation, we are finally producing quality young soccer talent. 

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2 hours ago, gobillsgo said:

I’ve never heard of that being the case. In fact most homegrown contracts usually have a bunch of option years for the team that are specifically designed to prevent losing players for free.  Maybe you are thinking of Amateur “Academy Contracts” often used by teams like Saint Louis FC in USL?

you are correct that MLS rules are incredibly complex and confusing. I’m not even sure the league knows how to apply them correctly all the time which led to the introduction of things like TAM. 

You know more than me.   Just playing Football Manager 2020 the MLS is crazy with confusing rules.   Check out this English dude's YouTube video 

The question is, if you're an American wonderkid is it better to be a regular player in MLS or go overseas?  Answer is probably depends on the player.   I'd like to see our future USMNT stars right here on the pitch in Austin next season but I see value in getting training overseas and competing at the highest levels too.

Bringing this back to STL, they'll get an expansion draft with Austin,  Charlotte,  and Sacramento.   Last expansion draft teams could only protect 12 players and a drafting team can only pick 1 player from a team and 5 total.   Teams that previously had players picked in expansion drafts were exempted.  Have terms been set yet for 2020?

 

 

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Not unexpected at all, but Saint Louis FC announced today that they will cease operations after this season.  Really a bummer, those games are always fun to attend.  No professional soccer in STL until 2023 now.  

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2 hours ago, gobillsgo said:

Not unexpected at all, but Saint Louis FC announced today that they will cease operations after this season.  Really a bummer, those games are always fun to attend.  No professional soccer in STL until 2023 now.  

Does this mean we don’t have to hear from the Louligans until then? Sign me up.

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3 minutes ago, willie said:

Wow. I would have thought you were a charter member. 

I spent the entirety of the inaugural game as a gameday volunteer being a liaison to that group.     That was the last time I ever considered supporting them as a group. 

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28 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Does this mean we don’t have to hear from the Louligans until then? Sign me up.

Out of curiosity, why do you say that?  They've always given me a clique-y vibe (especially amongst their leadership), and some of their leaders think they're the #1 authority on soccer fandom in the entire world.  But overall, I'd say the group is good for soccer in STL.

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3 hours ago, gobillsgo said:

Out of curiosity, why do you say that?  They've always given me a clique-y vibe (especially amongst their leadership), and some of their leaders think they're the #1 authority on soccer fandom in the entire world.  But overall, I'd say the group is good for soccer in STL.

A lot of the things you mention are spot on. My first impression of one of their top members was a sodomy joke. 
 

to expand on the soccer fandom authority: they are extremely self important. They think they are essential to St Louis Soccer. 

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