Oregon State from da' Couch in Maryland ......

[Billiken Rich]

30 minutes ago, juniorbill76 said:

I believe I saw Isaabel at the end of halftime warmups, bouncing a basketball while walking to the bench, wearing sweats.

He was there at the start in black sweats with Welmer and Wiley.  He wasn't limping or in a boot or on crutches or anything.  Not saying he wasn't injured just didn't show any outward signs of it that I could see.  I assumed that it was another sit out a half style punishment until I heard otherwise.....

[Billnation08]

I know on the 101.1 post-game show, Ford said Isabell had tweaked something (maybe an ankle?) at the end of the SIU game, which is why he was not dressed for Sunday's game. He also mentioned Gordon hadn't practiced the last couple days, but didn't say why. 

[moytoy12]

Writing off freshmen 9 games into the season? Man, SLU fans are getting spoiled. 

[slufan13]

I actually might like Thor's potential over Hankton's. 

[crymdg2]

Isabel was out because of his hamstring.

[Major Majerus]

6 hours ago, Box and Won said:

Gordon's FT percentage is abysmal, but I believe it will improve.  Ford even said he's a better shooter than he has shown so far this year.

Not worried about CG's fts going forward / he has a nice stroke & felt the pressure because OSU had a run going.  The time will come, maybe not real soon, when he will lick his chops when he goes to the line.

[WVBilliken]

52 minutes ago, Major Majerus said:

Not worried about CG's fts going forward / he has a nice stroke & felt the pressure because OSU had a run going.  The time will come, maybe not real soon, when he will lick his chops when he goes to the line.

Not concerned.  His history says he will hit them.  Bad game at the FT line.  It happens ...... 

 

[WVBilliken]

 

Not concerned.  His history says he will hit them.  Bad game at the FT line.  It happens ...... 

[cheeseman]

43 minutes ago, WVBilliken said:

Not concerned.  His history says he will hit them.  Bad game at the FT line.  It happens ...... 

 

This year he is shooting 43% - not sure why the big difference from high school but this 10 games into the season and 43% is not very good.  I hope you are right.

[RUBillsFan]

18 hours ago, cheeseman said:

This year he is shooting 43% - not sure why the big difference from high school but this 10 games into the season and 43% is not very good.  I hope you are right.

This is a sample size issue.  Gordon hasn't shot enough FTs in college to say that he's a bad FT shooter yet.  You mention 10 games - since games are not the denominator in FT %, the number of games means nothing.  You need to look at FT attempts to determine your sample size.  Gordon has shot 32 FTs so far this year making 43% of them.  His HS stats are a better indicator of his FT shooting ability because the sample sizes are much larger:

Here are his HS stats from StlToday (not sure if accurate):

Vianney 2014-15: 80-161 49.7%

Vianney 2015-16: 86-117 73.5%

Webster 2016-17: 53-76 69.7%

Webster 2017-18: 87-132 65.9%

HS Total: 306-486 63.0%

SLU 2018-19: 14-32 43.8%

Overall Total 320-518 61.8%

I'd wager that by the time Gordon's SLU career is over his career FT % will be a lot closer to 62% than 43%.  Not great, but not abysmal.

 

 

[cheeseman]

12 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

This is a sample size issue.  Gordon hasn't shot enough FTs in college to say that he's a bad FT shooter yet.  You mention 10 games - since games are not the denominator in FT %, the number of games means nothing.  You need to look at FT attempts to determine your sample size.  Gordon has shot 32 FTs so far this year making 43% of them.  His HS stats are a better indicator of his FT shooting ability because the sample sizes are much larger:

Here are his HS stats from StlToday (not sure if accurate):

Vianney 2014-15: 80-161 49.7%

Vianney 2015-16: 86-117 73.5%

Webster 2016-17: 53-76 69.7%

Webster 2017-18: 87-132 65.9%

HS Total: 306-486 63.0%

SLU 2018-19: 14-32 43.8%

Overall Total 320-518 61.8%

I'd wager that by the time Gordon's SLU career is over his career FT % will be a lot closer to 62% than 43%.  Not great, but not abysmal.

 

 

If he ends his career at 62% then I agree that is an improvement.  Yes I know the number of games is not the correct measurement but it does show  you  that the season is about a third over so to act like we have only played one or two games and call it a small sample size is not accurate either.  As far as looking at someone's high school stats as a sure indicator of what a kid will do in college is also not true - often we have seen players who shot 35% give or take behind the arc we have not seen that extrapolated necessarily to their college career.  Lets just agree that we all hope CG gets much better at FT shooting for his and ours sake.  

[SShoe]

23 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

If he ends his career at 62% then I agree that is an improvement.  Yes I know the number of games is not the correct measurement but it does show  you  that the season is about a third over so to act like we have only played one or two games and call it a small sample size is not accurate either.  As far as looking at someone's high school stats as a sure indicator of what a kid will do in college is also not true - often we have seen players who shot 35% give or take behind the arc we have not seen that extrapolated necessarily to their college career.  Lets just agree that we all hope CG gets much better at FT shooting for his and ours sake.  

Shooting a 3 in the college game is significantly different than in high school due to the level of opposing defenses. Shooting a FT, on the other hand, shouldn't vary all that much. 

[cheeseman]

38 minutes ago, SShoe said:

Shooting a 3 in the college game is significantly different than in high school due to the level of opposing defenses. Shooting a FT, on the other hand, shouldn't vary all that much. 

It was an example simply used to point out that things don't always translate in college from high school.

[SShoe]

3 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

It was an example simply used to point out that things don't always translate in college from high school.

I get it and I agree with you generally, but FT shooting is something that shouldn't change much.  You're still unguarded 15' feet from the 10' basket. Do we need to put Ollie on Strap's shoulders to demonstrate?

[kshoe]

1 hour ago, SShoe said:

Shooting a 3 in the college game is significantly different than in high school due to the level of opposing defenses. Shooting a FT, on the other hand, shouldn't vary all that much. 

Opposing defenses and the distance for 3 pointers!

[SShoe]

19 minutes ago, kshoe said:

Opposing defenses and the distance for 3 pointers!

I don't recognize the difference in 3 point lines.  I was always knocking them down from 5' beyond the line.*

*I was actually always stepping on the line.

[Quality Is Job 1]

1 hour ago, SShoe said:

I get it and I agree with you generally, but FT shooting is something that shouldn't change much.  You're still unguarded 15' feet from the 10' basket. Do we need to put Ollie on Strap's shoulders to demonstrate?

What changes is the length of the game (from 32 to 40 minutes) and the level of intensity.  Also, the opposing players are taller and stronger, and many of them are more savvy.  Those things increase the amount of pressure players feel while straining their stamina.  When the "legs" go, so does the shot.  Also, when ahead by 20 points in the 3rd quarter of a high school game, it's a lot easier to shoot free throws than in the latter portions of the second half of a two-possession college game against a "name" opponent.

Usually more veteran players have learned how to cope much better than freshmen.

[RUBillsFan]

2 hours ago, cheeseman said:

As far as looking at someone's high school stats as a sure indicator of what a kid will do in college is also not true - often we have seen players who shot 35% give or take behind the arc we have not seen that extrapolated necessarily to their college career.

 

1 hour ago, SShoe said:

I get it and I agree with you generally, but FT shooting is something that shouldn't change much.  You're still unguarded 15' feet from the 10' basket. Do we need to put Ollie on Strap's shoulders to demonstrate?

I was thinking along the same lines as @SShoe.  A FT in HS is the same as a FT in college, the player's FT% shouldn't change much.  I will concede, however, that while this view seems intuitive to me, maybe, there are other factors (such as those that @Quality Is Job 1 just pointed out) that create a difference.  Shooting backgrounds might be another example in HS you are most likely shooting at a basket with a gym wall behind it, but in college you are more likely shooting at a basket in an arena with fans/students behind it.

I'd be in interested to see a study on the correlation between HS FT% and college FT%.  I did find this article (https://www.flohoops.com/articles/6249795-euroleague-to-the-nba-the-skills-that-translate-most) about Euroleague stats translating to the NBA which surprisingly finds a low correlation between FT%.  The article points out that Euro players get to the line less when they make it to the NBA and then make fewer with fewer opportunities.  Perhaps something similar could happen with HS to college FT%.

[BIG BILL FAN]

3 hours ago, RUBillsFan said:

This is a sample size issue.  Gordon hasn't shot enough FTs in college to say that he's a bad FT shooter yet.  You mention 10 games - since games are not the denominator in FT %, the number of games means nothing.  You need to look at FT attempts to determine your sample size.  Gordon has shot 32 FTs so far this year making 43% of them.  His HS stats are a better indicator of his FT shooting ability because the sample sizes are much larger:

Here are his HS stats from StlToday (not sure if accurate):

Vianney 2014-15: 80-161 49.7%

Vianney 2015-16: 86-117 73.5%

Webster 2016-17: 53-76 69.7%

Webster 2017-18: 87-132 65.9%

HS Total: 306-486 63.0%

SLU 2018-19: 14-32 43.8%

Overall Total 320-518 61.8%

I'd wager that by the time Gordon's SLU career is over his career FT % will be a lot closer to 62% than 43%.  Not great, but not abysmal.

 

 

I don’t think including his freshman hs stats is relevant. He’s a 65-70% shooter.

[cheeseman]

2 hours ago, RUBillsFan said:

 

I was thinking along the same lines as @SShoe.  A FT in HS is the same as a FT in college, the player's FT% shouldn't change much.  I will concede, however, that while this view seems intuitive to me, maybe, there are other factors (such as those that @Quality Is Job 1 just pointed out) that create a difference.  Shooting backgrounds might be another example in HS you are most likely shooting at a basket with a gym wall behind it, but in college you are more likely shooting at a basket in an arena with fans/students behind it.

I'd be in interested to see a study on the correlation between HS FT% and college FT%.  I did find this article (https://www.flohoops.com/articles/6249795-euroleague-to-the-nba-the-skills-that-translate-most) about Euroleague stats translating to the NBA which surprisingly finds a low correlation between FT%.  The article points out that Euro players get to the line less when they make it to the NBA and then make fewer with fewer opportunities.  Perhaps something similar could happen with HS to college FT%.

Interesting