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4 hours ago, billiken bball said:

I wold suggest everyone temper their expectations for next year, They will be very young still, mostly sophomores and freshmen. Harbison was the point guard but McMahan ran that team and Frantz was just crazy hot the last half of the season. McMahan must have lead the nation in charges taken if that stat was kept. Those 2 seniors carried this team the last half of the season. The youngsters are talented but i think they are going to need another year of seasoning.

Flowers is already the best front court player the lady Bills have had. They have some solid additions in transfers and recruits. I will be surprised if they don't have a winning record and NIT bid next year.

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4 hours ago, billiken bball said:

I wold suggest everyone temper their expectations for next year, They will be very young still, mostly sophomores and freshmen. Harbison was the point guard but McMahan ran that team and Frantz was just crazy hot the last half of the season. McMahan must have lead the nation in charges taken if that stat was kept. Those 2 seniors carried this team the last half of the season. The youngsters are talented but i think they are going to need another year of seasoning.

 

4 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

I'm looking forward to seeing Myia Clark step into a larger role, same with Tasia Jeffries.

I agree that Frantz and McMahan are huge losses.  Another factor is that a lot of the top A10 teams (should) return most of their talent:

  1. Fordham - returns 5 of top 7 players.  (loses 1 & 3 in minutes, 2 & 3 scorers)
  2. VCU -  returns all of their players (no current seniors on roster)
  3. Duquense - returns 4 of top 8 players.  (loses 2, 3, 4, & 7 in minutes, 1,2,3 & 8 scorers)
  4. Dayton - returns 6 of top 8 players.  (loses 2 & 6 in minutes, 2 & 7 scorers)
  5. Davidson - returns 5 of top 8 players (loses 3,6 & 7 in minutes, 1,4 & 8 scorers)
  6. SLU - returns 6 of top 8 players (loses 2 & 3 in minutes, 2 & 4 scorers)

As you can see moving up closer to the top of the 10 will be tough.  Duquesne is the only team above SLU that loses more.  Other lose a similar amount or less than SLU.  VCU will clearly be the team to beat.

That being said, I do expect the WBB to take another step forward because of a number of factors and hopefully secure an NIT  bid.

  • Harbison - hard to improve on the tremendous freshman season she had, but she had a ton of turnovers.  If she cuts those down, her soph season will be better even if her scoring drops slightly.
  • Flowers - she wasn't a huge factor until later in the year and she's rail thin.  Conditioning / strength training will help her tremendously and she's already one of the best bigs in the conference.
  • Clark - she shot will from 3pt range in a limited sample.  I think she blossoms with a larger role like 05 says.
  • Stewart - she was a top player in the St Louis area and will be eligible 1/2 through the season.  Should be a big boost.
  • Smith Traore - transfer big from Marquette who will be eligible.  Should provide better depth behind Flowers.
  • Other young players have potential to step up as well.  Players seem to progressively get better each year under Stone.  Look at the career trajectories of Frantz and McMahan.

I don't think next year is the NCAA year because we'd have to win the A-10 tournament and I don't see SLU as the best team in conference.  However 2 and 3 years from now, SLU won't lose much and those other top teams will.  Those 2 years will be the ones where SLU has a chance to finally break through to the NCAA tournament.

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4 hours ago, RUBillsFan said:

 

I agree that Frantz and McMahan are huge losses.  Another factor is that a lot of the top A10 teams (should) return most of their talent:

  1. Fordham - returns 5 of top 7 players.  (loses 1 & 3 in minutes, 2 & 3 scorers)
  2. VCU -  returns all of their players (no current seniors on roster)
  3. Duquense - returns 4 of top 8 players.  (loses 2, 3, 4, & 7 in minutes, 1,2,3 & 8 scorers)
  4. Dayton - returns 6 of top 8 players.  (loses 2 & 6 in minutes, 2 & 7 scorers)
  5. Davidson - returns 5 of top 8 players (loses 3,6 & 7 in minutes, 1,4 & 8 scorers)
  6. SLU - returns 6 of top 8 players (loses 2 & 3 in minutes, 2 & 4 scorers)

As you can see moving up closer to the top of the 10 will be tough.  Duquesne is the only team above SLU that loses more.  Other lose a similar amount or less than SLU.  VCU will clearly be the team to beat.

That being said, I do expect the WBB to take another step forward because of a number of factors and hopefully secure an NIT  bid.

  • Harbison - hard to improve on the tremendous freshman season she had, but she had a ton of turnovers.  If she cuts those down, her soph season will be better even if her scoring drops slightly.
  • Flowers - she wasn't a huge factor until later in the year and she's rail thin.  Conditioning / strength training will help her tremendously and she's already one of the best bigs in the conference.
  • Clark - she shot will from 3pt range in a limited sample.  I think she blossoms with a larger role like 05 says.
  • Stewart - she was a top player in the St Louis area and will be eligible 1/2 through the season.  Should be a big boost.
  • Smith Traore - transfer big from Marquette who will be eligible.  Should provide better depth behind Flowers.
  • Other young players have potential to step up as well.  Players seem to progressively get better each year under Stone.  Look at the career trajectories of Frantz and McMahan.

I don't think next year is the NCAA year because we'd have to win the A-10 tournament and I don't see SLU as the best team in conference.  However 2 and 3 years from now, SLU won't lose much and those other top teams will.  Those 2 years will be the ones where SLU has a chance to finally break through to the NCAA tournament.

Just by your list Fordham also loses more and Davidson loses more scoring.  So out of the 5 ahead of us 3 of those lose more scoring. I think we are on the same page though. I expect us to be better probably top 4 in conference and possibly contend for a league title. Stewart was ranked the 28th best player in the country at her position by espn, I think she will be a difference maker also

With Flowers I want her to get stronger but I don't want her to chanto keep ge her game too much. She's currently probably quicker than any other 5 she plays against and I'd hate to see that change even just a little. She needs to develop her offensive game and more strength and improved footwork will help inside. However I believe she also needs to develop the ability to consistently hit a 12 footer to keep teams honest. In conference games her line was 9.1/10.8/2.8 

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-losing Frantz and McMahan is an opportunity for others, how the others respond will have a large bearing on the season

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i honestly dont think there will be much of a step back.   the freshmen that were not starting are very talented and once they get the experience will likely more than make up the losses.  

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15 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i honestly dont think there will be much of a step back.   the freshmen that were not starting are very talented and once they get the experience will likely more than make up the losses.  

I'm told the Kirkwood transfer is their best player. (Hard to believe as good as Harbison has become) Look for her to replace Frantz's numbers.

The program is definitely on the uptick. Two good recruiting classes back to back. This November is a very important signing period for them. They still struggle with athletic teams, and need help at forward.

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She was one of the better freshman in the A10 the season before.  She was at the end of the rotation by the end of the year.  

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8 hours ago, thetorch said:

She was one of the better freshman in the A10 the season before.  She was at the end of the rotation by the end of the year.  

Myia Clark took most of her minutes and is a class lower. Plus we have 3 frosh guards all about the same size coming in. 

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Do WBB players transfer for the same / similar reasons as MBB players?  Given that most DI MBB players have hopes of going pro (NBA or overseas) and WBB players (I assume) do not, I wonder if PT is as big of an issue.  On some level, I'm sure most players prefer to get PT, but who the heck knows if that has anything to do with why Jefferies is transferring.  I guess, I'm saying it wouldn't be surprised if she's transferring for non-basketball reasons just like any other non-athlete might transfer.

Either way, best of luck to her.  I think she would have been a useful bench player for SLU this upcoming season, gotten minutes at least until Stewart becomes eligible, and been good to have in case of injuries to other guards.

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3 hours ago, RUBillsFan said:

Do WBB players transfer for the same / similar reasons as MBB players?  Given that most DI MBB players have hopes of going pro (NBA or overseas) and WBB players (I assume) do not, I wonder if PT is as big of an issue.  On some level, I'm sure most players prefer to get PT, but who the heck knows if that has anything to do with why Jefferies is transferring.  I guess, I'm saying it wouldn't be surprised if she's transferring for non-basketball reasons just like any other non-athlete might transfer.

Either way, best of luck to her.  I think she would have been a useful bench player for SLU this upcoming season, gotten minutes at least until Stewart becomes eligible, and been good to have in case of injuries to other guards.

Actually that isn't the case.  Top tier womens pro leagues are paid a fraction of what top tier men make but In Europe, Asia, & Australia there are very lucrative oppurtunities for Women players in Pro Leagues. The Euros do not have the same hang ups about Womens basketball as Americans do.  In some cases women draw more and make more in europe than men do, especially in the lower level leagues.   The WNBA actually is not that competitive pay wise with Europe.  They play in the summer so it is an offseason league mostly for prestige.  WNBA players make much more in the winters overseas, and play fewer games as well.

I'd say transfer reason are the same in mens and womens, playing time, prep for next level, personality or discipline issues are the driving forces behind most transfers.

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23 minutes ago, thetorch said:

Actually that isn't the case.  Top tier womens pro leagues are paid a fraction of what top tier men make but In Europe, Asia, & Australia there are very lucrative oppurtunities for Women players in Pro Leagues. The Euros do not have the same hang ups about Womens basketball as Americans do.  In some cases women draw more and make more in europe than men do, especially in the lower level leagues.   The WNBA actually is not that competitive pay wise with Europe.  They play in the summer so it is an offseason league mostly for prestige.  WNBA players make much more in the winters overseas, and play fewer games as well.

I'd say transfer reason are the same in mens and womens, playing time, prep for next level, personality or discipline issues are the driving forces behind most transfers.

Wow.  I had no idea that was the case with overseas women's leagues.  Thanks for the info.

I do think that sometimes basketball / athlete transfers are overblown and there is often unnecessary hand-wringing about them in the media or with coaches/former coaches.  Wasn't there some research that showed athletes transfer at about the same rate as the overall student population?

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Transfer used to few and far between.  Now there is a "market" for them.  I think the scrutiny involves the grad transfer rule, which I think is awful it is college basketball free agency and the way players are transferring.

Typically a transfer happened because of being homesick or lack of playing time.  Now players use one school as a stepping stone.  If they weren't recruited at a high level out of HS, play small school for a year or two and then transfer to a major school.  This type of player movement didn't happen before.  Also the loss of JUCOs hurst as well, much more players going to 4 year schools for 4 years instead of two increases the chances of a transfer.

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11 minutes ago, thetorch said:

Transfer used to few and far between.  Now there is a "market" for them.  I think the scrutiny involves the grad transfer rule, which I think is awful it is college basketball free agency and the way players are transferring.

Typically a transfer happened because of being homesick or lack of playing time.  Now players use one school as a stepping stone.  If they weren't recruited at a high level out of HS, play small school for a year or two and then transfer to a major school.  This type of player movement didn't happen before.  Also the loss of JUCOs hurst as well, much more players going to 4 year schools for 4 years instead of two increases the chances of a transfer.

One thing to keep in mind is that all these players are entering the "Transfer Portal".  Yes that puts them on the market and many will jump ship, but doesn't mean they are gone.  Example, 9 players on the UMKC team entered the portal.  Several said they did so only to see who might be interested.  [I guess some of them needed an ego boast.]

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1 hour ago, thetorch said:

Actually that isn't the case.  Top tier womens pro leagues are paid a fraction of what top tier men make but In Europe, Asia, & Australia there are very lucrative oppurtunities for Women players in Pro Leagues. The Euros do not have the same hang ups about Womens basketball as Americans do.  In some cases women draw more and make more in europe than men do, especially in the lower level leagues.   The WNBA actually is not that competitive pay wise with Europe.  They play in the summer so it is an offseason league mostly for prestige.  WNBA players make much more in the winters overseas, and play fewer games as well.

I'd say transfer reason are the same in mens and womens, playing time, prep for next level, personality or discipline issues are the driving forces behind most transfers.

Well I'll be damned.

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2020 player, 5-8 guard. She was the conference POY this season for the second time in a row and unanimous WI D-I all-state. Averaged 19 PPG, 10 RPG, 4.4 APG, 2.8 SPG - she led the conference in all four of those statistical categories, and by a comfortable margin. Reached 1,000 career points in January. Plays for the Wisconsin Lakers travel club. I can find that she had "multiple D-I offers" and that she was frequently watched by coaches from the Big Ten, Big East, and A10 this season, but I can only confirm that Wisconsin was one of the other schools recruiting her.

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26 minutes ago, Pistol said:

2020 player, 5-8 guard. She was the conference POY this season for the second time in a row and unanimous WI D-I all-state. Averaged 19 PPG, 10 RPG, 4.4 APG, 2.8 SPG - she led the conference in all four of those statistical categories, and by a comfortable margin. Reached 1,000 career points in January. Plays for the Wisconsin Lakers travel club. I can find that she had "multiple D-I offers" and that she was frequently watched by coaches from the Big Ten, Big East, and A10 this season, but I can only confirm that Wisconsin was one of the other schools recruiting her.

Great commit. I think they only have one other scholarship for next year's class. Hopefully they can sign a good frontline player.

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34 minutes ago, Pistol said:

2020 player, 5-8 guard. She was the conference POY this season for the second time in a row and unanimous WI D-I all-state. Averaged 19 PPG, 10 RPG, 4.4 APG, 2.8 SPG - she led the conference in all four of those statistical categories, and by a comfortable margin. Reached 1,000 career points in January. Plays for the Wisconsin Lakers travel club. I can find that she had "multiple D-I offers" and that she was frequently watched by coaches from the Big Ten, Big East, and A10 this season, but I can only confirm that Wisconsin was one of the other schools recruiting her.

So Lisa Stone, who left Wisconsin, got a player to commit to SLU over Wisconsin.

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10 minutes ago, kmbilliken said:

Great commit. I think they only have one other scholarship for next year's class. Hopefully they can sign a good frontline player.

This is a 2020 commit - you mean the 2020 class, not 2019, right? They also have a 2021 commitment from Kiyley Flowers (PG from Fort Osage HS in Independence, MO).

3 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

So Lisa Stone, who left Wisconsin, got a player to commit to SLU over Wisconsin.

Yeah, pretty impressive work here. Ty's excited (although it sounds like there's more than one...):

 

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32 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

So Lisa Stone, who left Wisconsin, got a player to commit to SLU over Wisconsin.

The Badgers haven't had a winning season since they let Stone go.  The Badgers are 80-161 overall and 28-106 in Big 10 games since then. Stone is one of only two coaches to ever have a winning record at Wisconsin.

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Just now, brianstl said:

The Badgers haven't had a winning season since they let Stone go.  The Badgers are 80-161 overall and 28-106 in Big 10 games since then. Stone is one of only two coaches to ever have a winning record at Wisconsin.

I was more seeing the humor in it.

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1 minute ago, billikenfan05 said:

I was more seeing the humor in it.

I think that what has happened to their program is part of the humor of it.

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2 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I think that what has happened to their program is part of the humor of it.

Wisconsin fired Stone on March 21, 2011, following a 16–15 season and WNIT appearance. Stone finished her eight-year tenure with a 128–119 record at Wisconsin. Athletic director Barry Alvarez explained the firing: "On the court...our women’s basketball program has not reached and maintained the level of success I believe is possible.

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-seems like a nice get for the program, stay healthy and maintain your commitment and we'll see you on the floor wearing The Billiken! 

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