GDT Billikens step on the Spy-Das for seventh conference win

[HenryB]

24 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

no I haven't changed my position a bit.   I still believe our newbies even exhausted playing 35+ minutes a game will be more effective than any of our current roster.   I do agree that roby and Johnson have improved individually but not at a point I want them on the floor beyond short blows for rest and blowout time.   come December we will know if any of our existing roster is truly worthy.   for now I prefer to assume the crewsplatt connection is pretty much done affecting our team outcomes. 

Look at it this way, Roy.  The players minus Crawford and Reggie that won 6 league games will make up the bench in your scenario of all the newcomers starting.  Are you telling me the same guys that won 6 league games aren't good enough to play bench minutes???  How many teams in the A10 will have a better bench?

[billiken_roy]

6 minutes ago, HenryB said:

Look at it this way, Roy.  The players minus Crawford and Reggie that won 6 league games will make up the bench in your scenario of all the newcomers starting.  Are you telling me the same guys that won 6 league games aren't good enough to play bench minutes???  How many teams in the A10 will have a better bench?

read what I said again.   I believe their level of play will be far below our newbies to the point that we would be better off playing the newbies 36+ minutes a game rather than using our exisiting players.   our newbies exhausted, they would be better than our existing players. 

thus I believe our ceiling isn't all that high next year.   we can be over 500.   but we got another year of crewsplatt influence that will keep us out of ncaa tourney hopes likely imo.   the good news is they are leaving and more quality recruits will likely arrive.  

[Taj79]

I think Roby will get time.  He has to -- a senior, three year starter, best 3% and leading scorer.  I think Welmer will get time because it's him, Foreman and French on the front line.  That's why we need another big IMHO.  Johnson will likely battle/spell Bess.  With Goodwin, Henriquez and Graves plus Roby, Bishop is #5 IN THE BACK COURT and Moore is #6.  Can't see Hines from here as he's in another area code.  The lack o fdepth on the front line leads me to want another big for the coming year provided we lose Gillmann and/or Neufeld.  If we keep one, Neufeld is the more contemporary 5 man. 

[slufanskip]

55 minutes ago, hsmith19 said:

You keep saying this. Care to offer when and where anyone "salivated" over anything? If saying "more than a mopup guy" is your idea of salivation, then I wouldn't want to be around you while you're eating.

+1, Roy seems to be taking what is being said to the extreme. It would be like me claiming Roy thinks that all the newcomers will be 1st round draft choices. I think Roby, Welmer, and Johnson can be productive parts of a good team. To what extent, I don't know as I haven't seen the new guys play.

 

[ACE]

13 minutes ago, HenryB said:

Look at it this way, Roy.  The players minus Crawford and Reggie that won 6 league games will make up the bench in your scenario of all the newcomers starting.  Are you telling me the same guys that won 6 league games aren't good enough to play bench minutes???  How many teams in the A10 will have a better bench?

Notice, he didn't answer the question. Far too emotional to speak logically about the topic.

Outside of the RM team that had JJ and CE coming off the bench, I would be curious if people can think of any SLU teams over the last 20 years with a better bench than what we figure to have next year.

[SShoe]

Just look at it this way. If Roy is right in his assumption that all 6 newcomers will be far above (opposite of "far below") the 5 or 6 returning players, then we will be very good (well above .500). 

I still contend that our success next year will be mostly predicated on how good our players are at the top of the rotation (1-5), not on the bottom (6-10). I also think we'll have the best bench in the conference, which I guess could be construed as "salivating".

 

 

 

[ACE]

8 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

+1, Roy seems to be taking what is being said to the extreme. It would be like me claiming Roy thinks that all the newcomers will be 1st round draft choices. I think Roby, Welmer, and Johnson can be productive parts of a good team. To what extent, I don't know as I haven't seen the new guys play.

 

Yep, the real key will be whether or not the new guys are as good as we hope. The bench won 6 conference games - we'll be very strong there compared to the competition.

Crews' had complete misses (BJ, AG, MN) but every SLU coach had some of those, but his biggest problem was that he landed absolutely no top end talent - not a one 1st or 2nd team all conference type player in the bunch. But he did recruit plenty of guys who would be fine as bench/role players on a talented team (MC, RA, DR, MR, MY, EW).

[slufanskip]

8 minutes ago, SShoe said:

Just look at it this way. If Roy is right in his assumption that all 6 newcomers will be far above (opposite of "far below") the 5 or 6 returning players, then we will be very good (well above .500). 

I still contend that our success next year will be mostly predicated on how good our players are at the top of the rotation (1-5), not on the bottom (6-10). I also think we'll have the best bench in the conference, which I guess could be construed as "salivating".

 

 

 

If the A10 season started today, I believe we'd be in the middle of the pack or just slightly below the middle based upon the last 4-6 weeks. If the new guys are so good that no one on our roster should get more than mop-up minutes there is absolutely no doubt we're in the tourney next year.

[slufan13]

Honest question, how many conference games do we win without Crawford and Agbeko? I'm going to say both George Mason wins don't happen as those two combined for 33 ppg and 12 rpg in those two wins. Both scored in double figures in the St Joes game and Reggie had a double-double while Crawford hit a huge go-ahead 3 in the last minute. La Salle and UMass are probably wins. Crawford had 21 points and a big tie-breaking 3 in the win over Duquesne, but Reggie was mostly invisible that night.

In our conference wins, those two combined for:

- 24.6 ppg

- 10.2 rpg

- 4 apg

In our conference losses, they had:

- 14.9 ppg

- 7.9 rpg

- 1.9 apg.

[SShoe]

Just now, slufan13 said:

Honest question, how many conference games do we win without Crawford and Agbeko? I'm going to say both George Mason wins don't happen as those two combined for 33 ppg and 12 rpg in those two wins. Both scored in double figures in the St Joes game and Reggie had a double-double while Crawford hit a huge go-ahead 3 in the last minute. La Salle and UMass are probably wins. Crawford had 21 points and a big tie-breaking 3 in the win over Duquesne, but Reggie was mostly invisible that night.

In our conference wins, those two combined for:

- 24.6 ppg

- 10.2 rpg

- 4 apg

In our conference losses, they had:

- 14.9 ppg

- 7.9 rpg

- 1.9 apg.

Zero, because now we're essentially playing with 5 players (+AG and MN) instead of 7.

[kmbilliken]

If we don't have either of them, Gillmann and Neufeld become part of the rotation and we don't win any.

Edited March 6, 2017 by kmbilliken
Typo

[slufan13]

3 minutes ago, SShoe said:

Zero, because now we're essentially playing with 5 players (+AG and MN) instead of 7.

Haha. But obviously what I'm getting at is that people keep saying we won 6 conference games with next year's bench, but in reality we are losing two of our most important players that contributed to those 6 wins. 

I don't think our bench will be great next year, but I agree with what others are saying. The play of the newcomers will decide just how good we are next season.

[SShoe]

1 minute ago, slufan13 said:

Haha. But obviously what I'm getting at is that people keep saying we won 6 conference games with next year's bench, but in reality we are losing two of our most important players that contributed to those 6 wins. 

I don't think our bench will be great next year, but I agree with what others are saying. The play of the newcomers will decide just how good we are next season.

Let's just say you substituted Henriquez for Crawford and Foreman for Reggie.  I'm guessing that we'd have won an extra game or two on top of the 6,plus you're also adding in 4 potential impact players and get general improvement from the rest of the roster. That should easily be enough to win 10+ conference games.

Think back to Majerus' last season  All we added to an 11-win team (albeit a better one than this one) in the previous season was Kwamain Mitchell (one top of the line guy).  The rest of the team's improvement came entirely from within.  The bench is not going to be our problem unless the newcomers aren't any better than what's already here.

[Glorydays2013]

Out of eligible player we have this year, we average 2.3 recruit rankings. Next year, minus AG and MN we will be at 2.9. We will be better next year

[slufan13]

5 minutes ago, SShoe said:

Let's just say you substituted Henriquez for Crawford and Foreman for Reggie.  I'm guessing that we'd have won an extra game or two on top of the 6,plus you're also adding in 4 potential impact players and get general improvement from the rest of the roster. That should easily be enough to win 10+ conference games.

Think back to Majerus' last season  All we added to an 11-win team (albeit a better one than this one) in the previous season was Kwamain Mitchell (one top of the line guy).  The rest of the team's improvement came entirely from within.  The bench is not going to be our problem unless the newcomers aren't any better than what's already here.

The comparison to the 2010-11 season is interesting for sure. That team was ranked almost 150 spots higher in kenpom than this one so I don't think there is much of a comparison in terms of roster/talent. But that team also finished the year strong and competitive. Which is exactly what this team is doing. I really think the way you finish a season is important in looking at the next season.

[slufanskip]

11 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

Out of eligible player we have this year, we average 2.3 recruit rankings. Next year, minus AG and MN we will be at 2.9. We will be better next year

Well, there you go.

[ACE]

2 hours ago, HenryB said:

 

 

 

You can talk about not having Crawford and Agbeko, but what if we don't lose our leading scorer after 9 games? Probably have a couple more wins. The road games at Duquesne, Bona, GW and Richmond were all within reach before fading in the last 5 minutes. Lack of depth hurt. Ford did a great job of getting the guys to improve over the course of the season. Even Zeke has shown some potential since coming back from injury. Ford has been very positive about him and seems to like using him on the press and at the top of the zone. 

[Glorydays2013]

Zeke has some great upside being a 6'7 guard for defense. Someone give him some mass gainer for the offseason

[HenryB]

2 hours ago, slufan13 said:

Honest question, how many conference games do we win without Crawford and Agbeko? I'm going to say both George Mason wins don't happen as those two combined for 33 ppg and 12 rpg in those two wins. Both scored in double figures in the St Joes game and Reggie had a double-double while Crawford hit a huge go-ahead 3 in the last minute. La Salle and UMass are probably wins. Crawford had 21 points and a big tie-breaking 3 in the win over Duquesne, but Reggie was mostly invisible that night.

In our conference wins, those two combined for:

- 24.6 ppg

- 10.2 rpg

- 4 apg

In our conference losses, they had:

- 14.9 ppg

- 7.9 rpg

- 1.9 apg.

Reasonable point.   But how much better will the returning players be next year with all they minutes they got this year?  Not many benches will have that much experience.  Couple that with the fact that Ford is clearly making players better.

[almaman]

8 hours ago, slufan13 said:

Well I think it might have been some of the Crews-faithful who brought that idea up so I'm not sure anyone actually took it seriously. 

voter fraud, Bowling Green and Swedish terrorist attacks are as common as Crews-faithful around here. If I'm wrong call me out stand up and be proud if you are a MBM and still pine for the Crew's days weigh in now. If no one does let's drop the idea there is or at least just ignore them like we attempt to to with trolls real or imagined.

[hsmith19]

9 hours ago, slufan13 said:

Honest question, how many conference games do we win without Crawford and Agbeko? I'm going to say both George Mason wins don't happen as those two combined for 33 ppg and 12 rpg in those two wins. Both scored in double figures in the St Joes game and Reggie had a double-double while Crawford hit a huge go-ahead 3 in the last minute. La Salle and UMass are probably wins. Crawford had 21 points and a big tie-breaking 3 in the win over Duquesne, but Reggie was mostly invisible that night.

In our conference wins, those two combined for:

- 24.6 ppg

- 10.2 rpg

- 4 apg

In our conference losses, they had:

- 14.9 ppg

- 7.9 rpg

- 1.9 apg.

The question is fair, but it needs to go both ways. If Crawford doesn't go 3-18 against Duquesne, we probably win that one. If Reggie doesn't disappear against Fordham putting up 2 and 2, maybe we win that one too. I'm sure there are other examples I'm not thinking of.

Not taking away Crawford and Agbeko's big moments recently here, but to pretend their overall performances this year were anything special (even with the low current talent level) is just not realistic. Reggie's rebounding numbers are nice and shiny, but we should have no problem replacing them with next year's cast. We also should have no trouble having somebody else shoot threes considering Crawford has hit 25% this year.

[majerus mojo]

37 minutes ago, hsmith19 said:

The question is fair, but it needs to go both ways. If Crawford doesn't go 3-18 against Duquesne, we probably win that one. If Reggie doesn't disappear against Fordham putting up 2 and 2, maybe we win that one too. I'm sure there are other examples I'm not thinking of.

Not taking away Crawford and Agbeko's big moments recently here, but to pretend their overall performances this year were anything special (even with the low current talent level) is just not realistic. Reggie's rebounding numbers are nice and shiny, but we should have no problem replacing them with next year's cast. We also should have no trouble having somebody else shoot threes considering Crawford has hit 25% this year.

Well done, well done 

[Old guy]

7 hours ago, hsmith19 said:

The question is fair, but it needs to go both ways. If Crawford doesn't go 3-18 against Duquesne, we probably win that one. If Reggie doesn't disappear against Fordham putting up 2 and 2, maybe we win that one too. I'm sure there are other examples I'm not thinking of.

Not taking away Crawford and Agbeko's big moments recently here, but to pretend their overall performances this year were anything special (even with the low current talent level) is just not realistic. Reggie's rebounding numbers are nice and shiny, but we should have no problem replacing them with next year's cast. We also should have no trouble having somebody else shoot threes considering Crawford has hit 25% this year.

Agree with one addition, considering Crawford's injury based limitations evident this year his performance was extraordinary even though it was spotty at times.

[3star_recruit]

Adonys Henriquez  basically put up Roby's numbers in a conference only slightly better than this one on a team that had a slightly better record than this one. Graves's high point total as a college player (15) came in a loss to Nichols State.  Jermaine Bishop, who some on this board consider an afterthought, scored 27 against Alabama.  Even the optimists among us only expect Bess to be a better finishing version of Ash Yacoubou.  Foreman put up Reggie-like numbers on the worst team in the Big 10.  We're adding a ferocious rebounding 4 who shot 38% from the line in AAU.  Our star freshman will be the worst free throw shootier and possibly the worst  3 point shooter at the point guard position.

All of our incoming players have holes in their games.  What makes me optimistic is we're adding so many of them.  In the past, when our two best offensive players had off nights, there was no way for us to win that game.  Now we have enough offense to pull out some of those games.  And we've upgraded our rebounding to the point where I expect very few blowouts next year.

[Glorydays2013]

2 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

Now we have enough offense to pull out some of those games.  And we've upgraded our rebounding to the point where I expect very few blowouts next year.

We should be the ones blowing teams out next year. Believe that every player Ford recruits is a few grades up from what Crewsplatt brought to the table. Hell only Roby has anything listed on 24/7 sports. Matt N and Reggie are on there as the lowest grade available