slufan13 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 With Roby, there were rumors that he was offered by big schools as package for his teammates who went to Illinois and Florida. No idea if that's actually true, but he's certainly not looking like a SEC player. With Milik, there were rumors that his grades and attitude were keeping big schools away. We could be seeing that here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David King Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 If only Jolly had started a fist fight with Crews, this could have been dealt with much sooner... Would have forced Pestello's hand. The results would be much better if Crews started a fist fight with Jolly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbj14 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 There is a common topic that comes up in many threads on this board, that of recruiting. Recruiting is unquestionably vital to the success of a program, and when combined with good development that is where special teams are made. As a subset of this recruiting topic, many posters will echo some variant of the phrase "SLU needs to recuit locally." While I agree that the talent pool has seen a rapid growth in St. Louis recently, and that many of these players would be excellent for the program, I must admit that I do not fully agree with the crusade when the local kids spurn us. Let me explain my rationale on this point, because it is a little confusing. The growing trend in America is that the general population of college students are going away to school at a higher rate than before. Many students cannot wait to get out of the house and feel some form of independence. I find it interesting, then, that when it comes to athletics people expect athletes to be different. Fans pine for 18 year old kids to have a yearning to stay home when the general population is not demonstrating this same trait. It seems a little unjust to place this expectation that they are automatically wired differently, and placing entirety of blame on a coaching staff when local talent leaves. I must note: I am not using this as a defense of the current coaching staff. Rather, I believe that the inability to secure local kids is something that a new coach may not fix. We are not a blue blood, such as Kansas, that all of the in state players dream of playing for. A good parallel to our situation would be DePaul. Back in the day, they did recruit well locally (mainly because WGN carried their games nationally prior to ESPN) and had a great pipeline of talent. This was a different era, and today they struggle to recruit local talent because the elite Chicago players do not feel a pull to stay home, just as many students from Chicago leave when they make their college decisions. The point I am ultimately making is this: whoever the coaching staff happens to be should try and recruit the local talent if they believe that players will be right for the program and talented. However, we as a board must adjust our expectations for every time a local player leaves. SLU simply does not have the storied history to be the apple of young player's eye. That being said, I do truly hope that whoever the coach is can get the best players, local or otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 -I agree with MB that legitimate offers from other schools is a very good way to evaluate recruiting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Define "legitimate offer." My point is that you can't ----- if I fancy myself as some big time recruit and the next coming of Jordan, if the coach of Bumfuque U. is in my high school and says "hi" to me, I'd report having "talked at great length to him and received an offer." The point is we don't know who offered whom, we don't know if its a package deal, real, imagined or whatever. All you can really bank on is what happens when they get here and how they respond. Ignore the fiction and bank the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 -I agree with MB that legitimate offers from other schools is a very good way to evaluate recruiting This is also not a foolproof evaluation tool, though, because it's nearly impossible to tell which offers are still "legitimate" and which aren't. Recruiting offers go stale because they might get a commitment at that position from another kid, offers might be contingent on academics or some other factor(s), lead recruiters switch jobs, kids thin their list without recruiting services reflecting it, and so forth. Like the star ratings, it's just one more piece of the pie. Evaluating recruiting from our standpoint is an art, not a science. We take the information we have available and do the best we can. Star ratings alone aren't very meaningful below 4 stars; those are the guys who have been evaluated by multiple services multiple times and are getting a lot of exposure one way or the other. There might be plenty of 3-star kids who will be at that level in college, and there might be a lot of 3-star kids you wish had 2 stars next to their names because they'll never amount to much; below 4 stars, those guys just aren't getting much attention beyond a local/small regional scale. It's just as limiting to say, "Jordan Goodwin is a legit recruit because he has offers from Iowa, Purdue, and Illinois" as it is to say "Jordan Goodwin is a legit recruit because he's four stars" or as it is to say "Jordan Goodwin is a legit recruit because he's 94th in the class." Each of those statements is more meaningful when taken in context with the others, along with the other information we have on him - which is a lot, relatively speaking. With a guy like Neufeld, who was in Canada and then a prep school, information was a lot tougher to come by. We know that at various points he had offers from St. Mary's, Colorado, Clemson, American, UC-Irvine, and possibly Washington, but by the end it was nearly impossible to tell which offers were fresh and which weren't. And it was useless to draw anything from his 2-star rating. We just had to take those facts along with whatever else we had - limited video, the fact he made the Canada U-19 roster in a loaded class, the fact that he didn't play much in that tournament, and so forth - and build a picture. I can understand someone being skeptical about him because of the limited information, the same way I can understand someone taking those pieces and being optimistic about his potential. And that's the most frustrating thing about our recruiting the past few seasons - we're signing guys at a level that is more challenging in terms of up-front evaluation. Unless they're local and a lot of you have seen them play, there's not a lot of info available on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I'm not saying ignore the information on here, what I'm saying is don't bank on it as truly legit until you "see the kid play" to bastardize from another mantra spouted on here. Tony Brown average 36 ppg his senior year in Florida high school. Four years here left him with a 6.7 or so career ppg. Our supply of seven-footers to date was never good but these last three seem to be taking the median down even lower if that's possible. They/we all do it --- Ricky Cranford the next Larry Hughes per Spoon. Tyrone Caswell highest rated recruit in CUSA per Street and Smiths. Brett Thompson, four star recruit per Rivals. skip the greatest thing since sliced bread per skip. All I'm saying is don't be so quick to come to conclusions. Proof is in the pudding. Ever since Cranford and even Hughes before him I said show me. Hughes did. Others not so much. Those are individuals. Its wasn't until Majerus created his team concept that I believed more in the team than the individual. In the current format, I don't believe in the individual, the team or the coach. Three strikes, get him out. Burn it down. Start the long process all over again. Some of you think just the right coach is going to come along and fix this straight up. I can tellyou you are way off base. I saw that with Ron Coleman, Ron Ekker, Rich Grawer, Spoon, Romar and Soderberg. Only one broke themold and that is not happening any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I'm not saying ignore the information on here, what I'm saying is don't bank on it as truly legit until you "see the kid play" to bastardize from another mantra spouted on here. Tony Brown average 36 ppg his senior year in Florida high school. Four years here left him with a 6.7 or so career ppg. Our supply of seven-footers to date was never good but these last three seem to be taking the median down even lower if that's possible. They/we all do it --- Ricky Cranford the next Larry Hughes per Spoon. Tyrone Caswell highest rated recruit in CUSA per Street and Smiths. Brett Thompson, four star recruit per Rivals. skip the greatest thing since sliced bread per skip. All I'm saying is don't be so quick to come to conclusions. Proof is in the pudding. Ever since Cranford and even Hughes before him I said show me. Hughes did. Others not so much. Those are individuals. Its wasn't until Majerus created his team concept that I believed more in the team than the individual. In the current format, I don't believe in the individual, the team or the coach. Three strikes, get him out. Burn it down. Start the long process all over again. Some of you think just the right coach is going to come along and fix this straight up. I can tellyou you are way off base. I saw that with Ron Coleman, Ron Ekker, Rich Grawer, Spoon, Romar and Soderberg. Only one broke themold and that is not happening any time soon. Yeah, but what fun is that? We want to know what's going on with our recruiting, whether the incoming players are any good. Any sports writer today will tell you the articles that get the most clicks aren't about what's happening or what just happened, but about what's happening next - draft info, recruiting info, predictions, etc. Not game recaps. There's nothing wrong with curiosity; teams in general would have a lot less interest without any hope for the future. And yes, I am aware that you never quite know if someone is going to be good. That's the whole point of putting together as much information as we can- to have something to base a judgment on. No-doubters like Tatum are few and far between, especially for our program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 This is also not a foolproof evaluation tool, though, because it's nearly impossible to tell which offers are still "legitimate" and which aren't. -correct, a piece of the total picture which rarely gets completely filled in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I'm not saying ignore the information on here, what I'm saying is don't bank on it as truly legit until you "see the kid play" to bastardize from another mantra spouted on here. Tony Brown average 36 ppg his senior year in Florida high school. Four years here left him with a 6.7 or so career ppg. Our supply of seven-footers to date was never good but these last three seem to be taking the median down even lower if that's possible. They/we all do it --- Ricky Cranford the next Larry Hughes per Spoon. Tyrone Caswell highest rated recruit in CUSA per Street and Smiths. Brett Thompson, four star recruit per Rivals. skip the greatest thing since sliced bread per skip. All I'm saying is don't be so quick to come to conclusions. Proof is in the pudding. Ever since Cranford and even Hughes before him I said show me. Hughes did. Others not so much. Those are individuals. Its wasn't until Majerus created his team concept that I believed more in the team than the individual. In the current format, I don't believe in the individual, the team or the coach. Three strikes, get him out. Burn it down. Start the long process all over again. Some of you think just the right coach is going to come along and fix this straight up. I can tellyou you are way off base. I saw that with Ron Coleman, Ron Ekker, Rich Grawer, Spoon, Romar and Soderberg. Only one broke themold and that is not happening any time soon. Spoon? You honestly don't believe Spoon "broke the mold" on the Billiken program when he came here? If we find the right coach, he can bring in his own recruits in pretty short order and within a couple years be relevant again and a year or two after that we can dance again. It's all about finding the right coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 It's all about finding the right coach. Agreed, hire the right coach (who brings in the right coaching staff) and a turnaround can happen fairly quickly. If not, we could be looking at a real bad period for Billiken basketball. Have to get this hire right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 If you get a phone call tonight, you know what to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Spoon bought in some very good players besides luckng out w/ the legend. Mo Jeffers, Love, H, Robinson, Dobbins, Perry, plus others. Was he as good as Rick? No, but he's far better than the other guys you lumped him in with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenboy Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 I think Verbal Commits does a good job of noting legitimate offers because the player profile can be updated by both the player and the school. They do check with the schools to record the date and status. You are right that as schools level of interest changes those offers may not be good ones but at least you know there was an offer from a school at some point. Knowing which recruiters are in the gym watching the kid is another way of verifying the interest level. Serious recruiters know they must be fully committed to being present to games for a potential recruit to consider them. Competition is fierce out here. The head coach being there is the best weapon in recruiting coupled with the official visits. If your school sucks you will never get the visit offically or unofficially. As for the star rating it is littered with mistakes particularly for kids with low ranking to start who may have made drastic improvements but the original analysis is still hanging there unchanged. Usually if the ranking is not changed before the senior year of the kid it will not be changed at all especially with ESPN and particularly with kids outside of the Top 250. That is when the eye test by recruiters comes into play. Kids rated as 5 star normally stay at that ranking because no evaluator worth his salt wants to admit he ranked a kid higher than his real potential. In the past many on this board have said JC loathed recruiting. That is true because almost every kid on the court today was brought in by assistants to JCs attention. Ultimately he decided on who to offer but the interest was already there. All the kids today have great potential so going back and looking at their rating or offers is a mistake because the real problem today lies with the coaching staff and who is at the helm. Alot of these kids you are calling non-D1 players in another A10 program would be producing and be far better players than what we are seeing in Billiken uniform today. Coaching has the biggest impact on a kids confidence to become better, working with a staff that understands the growing pains required to be better, and to use the individual talents of the kids. Staff must have a tried and true blueprint for a players development like a curriculum required of teachers with measuring sticks to quantify where the kid is in the development process. I do not see that happening here. For that they are failing in many statistics and kids having the most upside lack consistency. In a nutshell JC instructs these kids like any work situation we as adults are in to only do what he asks you to do regardless of whether it is a strength or weakness. Any deviation and there goes your playing time. Players spend more time and effort trying stay on the floor and not playing with their instincts. A PLAYER IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE SYSTEM THEY PLAY IN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Yes kshoe, I throw Spoon under that bus as well because he sustained nothing, leaving the program in its usual also-ran status when he departed as well. That's my opinion and as always, you take a long-winded column and condense it down into one point that you have contention with. Good for you and glad to oblige. What did Spoon do? First season he won 12 games with Grawers' kids. Then, when those kids became juniors he did add some nice pieces and rose to the then-pinnacle of modern SLU hoops with back-to-back NCAA appearances, the first since 1956-57 (not counting NIT appearances because the old NIT was the national title in the McCauley years; not so much in the Grawer years). After that he won 16, 11 and 15 games with a second high-water mark of 22 when he lassoed Hughes in for his one-and-done. But that was not him -- that was the assistant coach and Hughes family situation calling. His continuity of high achievement was two years tops .... Majerus gave us almost five straight years of success (interrupted by the Situation year) and that demonstrates positive sustainability more than anything else in our history. So no, I don't believe Spoon broke the mold. Spoon proved what Grawer proved and what Majerus proved, that it is doable at Saint Louis University. But it requires total commitment from every facet of the administration and athletic department. There are no quick fixes and now there is nothing upon which to build, Jim Crews ran that down his leg these last four years. Whoever Mr. Right is, he's starting over at rock bottom. I will only agree with your "finding the right coach" statement if you include administration buy in. We found the right coach in Majerus, but Biondi was wavering on his commitment. No one really knows where Pestello stands. I for one believe Dr. Chaifetz has had his interest die as Majerus died. I never heard of this Chaifetz guy until the arena completion and the hiring of Rick --- his personal projects so it seems. And now that Rick is gone and the losing has set in, sightings of the good Doctor are becoming rare. Ominous? I think so. The lightning of Majerus won't strike again. That option is closed. The talking heads are a dime a dozen. No one there easily identifiable as the next sure thing. Greenberg? Dakich? Gillen? Biancardi? Gaudio? Franschilla? Evans? There are no viable former SLU connections working their way up the coaching ranks as I see it. We know of Danny Brown, Jamal Walker and Drew Deiner. Nothing sure there. the rest are high school. Which means we have to find the right ambitious assistant or lower D1 success story. Which is the same boat as the next great talking head. This I believe is Majerus' greatest failure --- he did nothing in terms of coaching stability ergo program sustainability. He had a great run and now the program is back to the status quo --- hope. Hope we fire Crews. Hope we find the right guy. Hope some of these deadbeats jump ship. Hope there are pickings off the spring signing dead pool. Hope is not a plan. We were relevant. We are no longer relevant. Graveyard of coaches (and jump shots). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Yes kshoe, I throw Spoon under that bus as well because he sustained nothing, leaving the program in its usual also-ran status when he departed as well. That's my opinion and as always, you take a long-winded column and condense it down into one point that you have contention with. Good for you and glad to oblige. What did Spoon do? First season he won 12 games with Grawers' kids. Then, when those kids became juniors he did add some nice pieces and rose to the then-pinnacle of modern SLU hoops with back-to-back NCAA appearances, the first since 1956-57 (not counting NIT appearances because the old NIT was the national title in the McCauley years; not so much in the Grawer years). After that he won 16, 11 and 15 games with a second high-water mark of 22 when he lassoed Hughes in for his one-and-done. But that was not him -- that was the assistant coach and Hughes family situation calling. His continuity of high achievement was two years tops .... Majerus gave us almost five straight years of success (interrupted by the Situation year) and that demonstrates positive sustainability more than anything else in our history. So no, I don't believe Spoon broke the mold. Spoon proved what Grawer proved and what Majerus proved, that it is doable at Saint Louis University. But it requires total commitment from every facet of the administration and athletic department. There are no quick fixes and now there is nothing upon which to build, Jim Crews ran that down his leg these last four years. Whoever Mr. Right is, he's starting over at rock bottom. I will only agree with your "finding the right coach" statement if you include administration buy in. We found the right coach in Majerus, but Biondi was wavering on his commitment. No one really knows where Pestello stands. I for one believe Dr. Chaifetz has had his interest die as Majerus died. I never heard of this Chaifetz guy until the arena completion and the hiring of Rick --- his personal projects so it seems. And now that Rick is gone and the losing has set in, sightings of the good Doctor are becoming rare. Ominous? I think so. The lightning of Majerus won't strike again. That option is closed. The talking heads are a dime a dozen. No one there easily identifiable as the next sure thing. Greenberg? Dakich? Gillen? Biancardi? Gaudio? Franschilla? Evans? There are no viable former SLU connections working their way up the coaching ranks as I see it. We know of Danny Brown, Jamal Walker and Drew Deiner. Nothing sure there. the rest are high school. Which means we have to find the right ambitious assistant or lower D1 success story. Which is the same boat as the next great talking head. This I believe is Majerus' greatest failure --- he did nothing in terms of coaching stability ergo program sustainability. He had a great run and now the program is back to the status quo --- hope. Hope we fire Crews. Hope we find the right guy. Hope some of these deadbeats jump ship. Hope there are pickings off the spring signing dead pool. Hope is not a plan. We were relevant. We are no longer relevant. Graveyard of coaches (and jump shots). Another long-winded column that I must take contention with! Spoon took over a program that won 5 games (5 games!!!!) the year before he arrived and two years later took them to the NCAA tournament. It was the first NCAA tournament in nearly 40 years. In total he took us to 3 NCAA tournaments in 8 years and left behind the kids capable of doing #4 in year 9 under Romar. If 4 NCAA tourneys in 9 years after a 40 year drought isn't "breaking the mold" then I don't know what is! I get that you are "Mr. Negative" and things are always horrible and only going to get worse. It's part of your charm. And you definitely ended up being right these past 2 years about the fate of the program under Crews. But I'm definitely not in the camp that says we are going to suck for the long-term just because we sucked these past two years. Get a new coach, get some new players and things can turn around quickly. The college basketball world has plenty of examples of programs that looked doomed only to rise back up and become relevant again. We can be one of those programs. As for the administration, we'll know where they stand within a couple weeks of the season end. If Crews is still in place or its obvious we are going cheap on the next hire, your fears may be realized. But if we make a change and the money is there for a new coach then we'll be back on the right path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Yes kshoe, I throw Spoon under that bus as well because he sustained nothing, leaving the program in its usual also-ran status when he departed as well. That's my opinion and as always, you take a long-winded column and condense it down into one point that you have contention with. Good for you and glad to oblige. What did Spoon do? First season he won 12 games with Grawers' kids. Then, when those kids became juniors he did add some nice pieces and rose to the then-pinnacle of modern SLU hoops with back-to-back NCAA appearances, the first since 1956-57 (not counting NIT appearances because the old NIT was the national title in the McCauley years; not so much in the Grawer years). After that he won 16, 11 and 15 games with a second high-water mark of 22 when he lassoed Hughes in for his one-and-done. But that was not him -- that was the assistant coach and Hughes family situation calling. His continuity of high achievement was two years tops .... Majerus gave us almost five straight years of success (interrupted by the Situation year) and that demonstrates positive sustainability more than anything else in our history. So no, I don't believe Spoon broke the mold. Spoon proved what Grawer proved and what Majerus proved, that it is doable at Saint Louis University. But it requires total commitment from every facet of the administration and athletic department. There are no quick fixes and now there is nothing upon which to build, Jim Crews ran that down his leg these last four years. Whoever Mr. Right is, he's starting over at rock bottom. I will only agree with your "finding the right coach" statement if you include administration buy in. We found the right coach in Majerus, but Biondi was wavering on his commitment. No one really knows where Pestello stands. I for one believe Dr. Chaifetz has had his interest die as Majerus died. I never heard of this Chaifetz guy until the arena completion and the hiring of Rick --- his personal projects so it seems. And now that Rick is gone and the losing has set in, sightings of the good Doctor are becoming rare. Ominous? I think so. The lightning of Majerus won't strike again. That option is closed. The talking heads are a dime a dozen. No one there easily identifiable as the next sure thing. Greenberg? Dakich? Gillen? Biancardi? Gaudio? Franschilla? Evans? There are no viable former SLU connections working their way up the coaching ranks as I see it. We know of Danny Brown, Jamal Walker and Drew Deiner. Nothing sure there. the rest are high school. Which means we have to find the right ambitious assistant or lower D1 success story. Which is the same boat as the next great talking head. This I believe is Majerus' greatest failure --- he did nothing in terms of coaching stability ergo program sustainability. He had a great run and now the program is back to the status quo --- hope. Hope we fire Crews. Hope we find the right guy. Hope some of these deadbeats jump ship. Hope there are pickings off the spring signing dead pool. Hope is not a plan. We were relevant. We are no longer relevant. Graveyard of coaches (and jump shots). You make some good points, but I think Spoon deserves a little more credit for the team he left behind. He initially didn't do a good job of building off the success of the Clag/Waldman crew, but then got a bit of a good break with Larry, but in fairness he also got a bad break when Larry left after only one year. It was a long time ago now, but it seems like the Larry's departure after just one year was a surprise. I seem to recall late in the season Larry even indicated that he was likely coming back for his sophomore year. Everybody knew he was going to be good, but I think his freshman season was even more dominant than expected, plus he had the family situation pushing him to go get paid. And at that time "one and dones" were not nearly as common as they are now. A second year of Larry would have really helped Spoon - that team could have been set up for a deep Tourney run. That set the program back, but to Spoon's credit, he eventually built the roster back up and left Romar a talented team: Love, Perry and Jeffers plus a decent collection of bigs Heinrich, Tatum and Baniak. If Spoon had coached that team instead of Romar, they would have been even better, but as it was that team had a nice RPI under 50 (even before the "Miracle in Memphis") Had some good wins that year in a tough C-USA and win over a pretty good SPUMAC team. The talent in the program slowly started to erode under Romar, but that wasn't Spoon's fault. Regarding program "sustainability" under RM, that's not his primary job - that's the responsibility of the administration (Biondi at the time - dysfunctional; May - probably not exactly a visionary). Plus RM DID leave behind a team that went on to have two more Tourney bids, so plenty of time for those who followed to restock the roster with quality... didn't happen. If RM's health issues happen at a different time, perhaps somebody younger like Alex Jensen or Chris Harriman takes the reigns instead and things are more in the RM mold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 mike mccall as a freshman was 2000x faster than bishop and a far better passer and shooter. what you are seeing from bishop is a comparison to the rest of this horrible roster. the fact he cannot keep any player in front of him defensively tells you all you need to know about his lateral quickness. to insinuate that freshman mccall = bishop is insane. mccall, jett, evans and loe no doubt improved a lot from freshman year until their senior seasons, but let's not compare them to anyone on this roster please. we do not have a comparable player on this roster. roby and yarbrough sitting is a very bad sign. no information, but the fact neither played considering their athleticism and size compared to the rest of the roster speaks volumes. this whole scenario rings very close to the last year of grawer when players were walking off the floor in games, transferring in the dead of night, etc. the difference is that grawers bad boys were actually decent players who just had bad attitudes. here we have bad players with apparently bad attitudes. that boggles my mind. these kids are dreaming if they think they have any professional basketball future, one would think getting a degree at one of the best catholic universities in the world would be incentive enough to "do their jobs" in a mature fashion. instead they get themselves benched and suspended? i have never been an advocate of "running off players". imo, it is the job of the coach to coach talent and develop them the best they can be improved, afterall the coach brought them here. but i have also said, if they are not good students, if they are not good citizens if they are not good teamates, the deal should be off. how close we are to the deal being "off" is anyone's guess as slu hasnt given us any details. but no doubt there is a storm brewing. Hmmm... you might want to reconsider a few of those comments. Saying that McCall as a freshman was "200x faster than Bishop" seems a little "insane." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Hmmm... you might want to reconsider a few of those comments. Saying that McCall as a freshman was "200x faster than Bishop" seems a little "insane." sorry you misread. i said 2000x faster. i stick with that. he was blown by at will again last night on defense. let's just say he never was given the opportunity to guard mr gibbs last night. granted he can shoot when he's open. let's see how he does now that teams will know who he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 . let's see how he does now that teams will know who he is. Good point roy. There are walk ons and end of the rotation guys all over the country that can come in and produce for a couple of games in a row. When the scout gets out, they usually turn back into the pumpkin at the end of the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 sorry you misread. i said 2000x faster. i stick with that. he was blown by at will again last night on defense. let's just say he never was given the opportunity to guard mr gibbs last night. granted he can shoot when he's open. let's see how he does now that teams will know who he is. I figured you would double down on your extreme stance. Let's just say freshman year Mike McCall also would not have been given the opportunity to guard Mr. Gibbs. I believe he would have fallen behind Jett, NBA prospect Cassity and even Eckerle with that assignment. I seem to recall a lot of hand-wringing on here about freshman McCall's defense. It was not close to what it evolved into his junior and senior seasons (which of course was my original point about Bishop). It's really strange you say Bishop "was blown by at will" last night. He didn't guard Gibbs as you point out, who was really the only Davidson guard who could get to the rim. The other guard Sullivan made a few 3-pointers, but missed a lot of shots including all of his 2-point attempts and only had one assist, so doesn't exactly seem like he was the one getting by Bishop and the rest of their guards coming off the bench did nothing. So basically there is no evidence to support your claim. I'll have to go back and look at the game again to see him getting "blown by all night." I seem to recall a lot more instances of Bishop driving and dishing or getting to the rim, than Davidson guards doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BACKHANDtheRICAN Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 . we beat UMASS. Crews will be retained along with more years of mediocrity for our program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David King Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 ######. we beat UMASS. Crews will be retained along with more years of mediocrity for our program. Definitely a catastrophic win. but, there are plenty of potential losses on the horizon to seal Crews' fate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BACKHANDtheRICAN Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 Definitely a catastrophic win. but, there are plenty of potential losses on the horizon to seal Crews' fate. We can not win anymore games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireCrews Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 fire crews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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