majerus mojo Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 51 minutes ago, Old guy said: Sulfan, this is an honest question, I just do not know. How many head coaches go to a different school voluntarily, without being fired. My impression is that a whole load of head coaches get fired for reasons which may or may not be valid, maybe just because they cross the AD. Again, I may be wrong here about the numbers of coaches being fired and those changing jobs voluntarily. Probably something of a wash between those taking "better" jobs, like Groce, and those who've been fired, like Ford? Definitely more of the latter, but to what degree, yea I'm not 100% either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Illinois would be a good job for a winning P5 coach to jump to. Not an Izzo, Coach K, Calipari, or Self type but attractive enough to pull in a winner from somewhere else. Let's just hope they don't go after Travis after the recruiting success he's had here after the two miserable seasons we've had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Just now, slu72 said: Illinois would be a good job for a winning P5 coach to jump to. Not an Izzo, Coach K, Calipari, or Self type but attractive enough to pull in a winner from somewhere else. Let's just hope they don't go after Travis after the recruiting success he's had here after the two miserable seasons we've had. They would never hire Ford because they are convinced that their fan base thinks he is a cheater. Besides that would require them to admit that they are losing to him. If they want a Power 5 coach I am sure they could have Anderson at Missouri easily enough. Is IL a loser program - no but they are like every P5 school who has fallen on hard times. All it will take is the right coach at the the right time but then again you can say that about SLU or any other D1 program. Is it really true that Groce has a top 10 recruiting class coming in? or is this just IL PR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGMAN618 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 27 minutes ago, cheeseman said: They would never hire Ford because they are convinced that their fan base thinks he is a cheater. Besides that would require them to admit that they are losing to him. If they want a Power 5 coach I am sure they could have Anderson at Missouri easily enough. Is IL a loser program - no but they are like every P5 school who has fallen on hard times. All it will take is the right coach at the the right time but then again you can say that about SLU or any other D1 program. Is it really true that Groce has a top 10 recruiting class coming in? or is this just IL PR. Honestly, the sane , level headed Illini fans (myself included) don't think he is a cheater. Unfortunately, due to the large fan base we have, there are a lot of idiot, crazy, unrealistic fans that make the rest of us look bad and a large number of trolls that appear on message boards. I think Travis Ford would have been a great hire 5 years ago instead of Groce, but after watching his teams at OK St, I would not be as thrilled now. Not saying he is a bad coach, just hasn't done as well as I would have expected given the recruits he was able to get. I might be wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that Groce has as many NCAA tourney wins as Ford does. But I think he will do well with you guys and he is a hell of a recruiter. As for Anderson from Mizzou.....thanks, but no thanks lol. The last I seen, yes, we have a top 10 class coming in. Now, once the spring signing period ends and the class is wrapped up I'm sure it will fall to around 15, depending on what happens with our remaining scholarships, maybe even 20 but still great considering the past few years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 1 hour ago, CGMAN618 said: First off , I never stated that we would get a high major coach with multiple ncaa wins. I simply said a good coach with a proven record. Nobody in Illini nation thinks we are pulling Izzo, or coach k away from their schools. But there are a lot of good coaches out there, even at mid majors that have been successful that we could go after. You cite our last 3 coaches came from mid majors, but we pulled Kruger away from Florida before we had Self, so anything is possible. The fact that the college basketball landscape has changed since then has absolutely no bearing on who we could get to come coach here. I would even argue our program was in worse shape then than it is now. We were coming off probation from the Deon Thomas ordeal then. And any potential coach we may hire will not be taking on a rebuild. We already have good players in place to go along with a top rated incoming class. This job is a much easier sell now than it was 5 years ago. Yes, we thought we had a chance with Smart and Stevens then, but the fact that our former AD Mike Thomas was a complete a-hole played a huge role in that too, not just the program perception. Coaches leave programs all the time for various reasons and any coach could objectively look at our roster and incoming class (Top 10 overall and #1 in the big ten) and see that they could win right away. This is not a rebuild. Look, I'm one of the more level headed Illini fans you will ever meet . All I am saying is if Whitman doesn't feel like he can get a better coach than groce, he is not gonna fire him just to take a chance on someone else with no better of a track record. He will just stay the course. And despite Groces flaws, the fact that he has landed a top 10 class given the last few years results speaks volumes IMO. That is why Whitman will only fire him if he knows he has a homerun hire waiting in the bag. I mean, there isn't an illini fan out there that ever dreamed we would have landed Lovie Smith to take over the football program (which was in far worse shape than basketball), but he did it. That's why I said that I have confidence in him to make the right hire if he does indeed fire Groce. He is a man with a vision, and will not settle for a second rate coach. I'm sure you guys never thought you would get a Travis Ford to come and coach, but you did. Anything is possible these days and in the end. ..... $$$$ always talks I think this is a solid assessment. I don't think you could pull the Kruger move anymore just because SEC programs place a much higher value on their basketball coaches now. All power 5 programs seem too now. I actually think the mid major Self-Weber mode is the best way for Illini to go if Groce crashes this season. I just think Groce was a terrible hire. I thought that at the time he was hired. He was just 4 games over .500 in the MAC in four seasons as a coach and never finished above third in the MAC. Just pick a guy that has shown he actually can build a program instead of riding a hot streak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGMAN618 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 6 minutes ago, brianstl said: I think this is a solid assessment. I don't think you could pull the Kruger move anymore just because SEC programs place a much higher value on their basketball coaches now. All power 5 programs seem too now. I actually think the mid major Self-Weber mode is the best way for Illini to go if Groce crashes this season. I just think Groce was a terrible hire. I thought that at the time he was hired. He was just 4 games over .500 in the MAC in four seasons as a coach and never finished above third in the MAC. Just pick a guy that has shown he actually can build a program instead of riding a hot streak. I agree. I was less than thrilled with the Groce hire at the time but in his first season, he took a team that completely folded on Weber and lost an NBA lottery pick in Leonard, and had them one bad call away from a sweet 16. I got behind him after that. He started getting better recruits but injuries and off court issues the next few years really put a damper on things. Now he finally has a little momentum on the recruiting trail but it's put up or shut up time. I would honestly like to see them pursue Archie Miller if they let Groce go this year. I think he has a solid resume Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGMAN618 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 1 hour ago, cheeseman said: They would never hire Ford because they are convinced that their fan base thinks he is a cheater. Besides that would require them to admit that they are losing to him. If they want a Power 5 coach I am sure they could have Anderson at Missouri easily enough. Is IL a loser program - no but they are like every P5 school who has fallen on hard times. All it will take is the right coach at the the right time but then again you can say that about SLU or any other D1 program. Is it really true that Groce has a top 10 recruiting class coming in? or is this just IL PR. I just looked and 247 & ESPN has it at 11, Rivals @ 9, Scout @ 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBFan Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 35 minutes ago, CGMAN618 said: I agree. I was less than thrilled with the Groce hire at the time but in his first season, he took a team that completely folded on Weber and lost an NBA lottery pick in Leonard, and had them one bad call away from a sweet 16. I got behind him after that. He started getting better recruits but injuries and off court issues the next few years really put a damper on things. Now he finally has a little momentum on the recruiting trail but it's put up or shut up time. I would honestly like to see them pursue Archie Miller if they let Groce go this year. I think he has a solid resume Who would have ever thought a coaching legend like Rick Majerus would have come to coach at SLU and change the program like he did. Rick Majerus changed my expectations on the kind of coach that SLU could get after coach Crews was fired. Archie Miller would be a great coach if the Illini could get him however I think there will be some stiff competition for him but I like the way you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majerus mojo Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Archie to Illinois would hurt us in more ways than one. Have to hope he's going to follow his brother's blueprint, i.e. wait long enough for a premier job to open before he makes the jump from UD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 13 minutes ago, majerus mojo said: Archie to Illinois would hurt us in more ways than one. Have to hope he's going to follow his brother's blueprint, i.e. wait long enough for a premier job to open before he makes the jump from UD Illinois isn't a big enough jump from Dayton. If he's leaving Dayton it will be for a top 25 program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Archie & Counzo are going to Illinois like Shaka and Brad were going to Illinois. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Just a few categories and names of head coaches who have voluntarily left one school only to end up somewhere else: 1. Coaches who go back home/to their alma mater: Mike Anderson from Mizzou to Arkansas (Mike allegedly went "home" to where he was an assistant coach), Bob Huggins to West Virginia (Bob also went home), Bill Self left Illinois to Kansas (Bill also went "home" to where he previously coached) and Roy Williams went home to his alma mater, North Carolina. 2. Coaches who give up retirement. Many others retired only to then come out of retirement and back to coaching: Majerus to SLU, Spoonhour to UNLV, etc. 3. Coaches who leave the college game for the NBA only to return to college: Rick Pitino, John Calipari, etc. Possibly Brad Stevens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Thank you Clock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majerus mojo Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Again, Brad Stevens is currently crushing it in the NBA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, majerus mojo said: Again, Brad Stevens is currently crushing it in the NBA Yeah, I don't get the people that think Brad Stevens is going to go back to college to coach. What he has down with the roster he has with the Celtics is unbelievable. He is on everyone's list of top 10 coaches in the NBA and he is in the top 5 of most of those list. The guy is going to be able to demand and get over $10 million a year in his next contract. No way he is going back to the college game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGMAN618 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 56 minutes ago, brianstl said: Yeah, I don't get the people that think Brad Stevens is going to go back to college to coach. What he has down with the roster he has with the Celtics is unbelievable. He is on everyone's list of top 10 coaches in the NBA and he is in the top 5 of most of those list. The guy is going to be able to demand and get over $10 million a year in his next contract. No way he is going back to the college game. I don't think there is any chance he ever comes back to college either. I could see Billy Donovan coming back to coach college before Stevens does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUBillsFan Posted December 2, 2016 Author Share Posted December 2, 2016 13 minutes ago, CGMAN618 said: I don't think there is any chance he ever comes back to college either. I could see Billy Donovan coming back to coach college before Stevens does NBA coaching carousel can spin pretty quickly. I agree Stevens has been fantastic so far with the Celtics, but if they stagnate and can't make it out of the 1st round of the playoffs I wonder how long before Celtic fans and ownership has patience with him. Stevens is young enough (he's only 40) that he could be fairly successful for 5-10 more years in the NBA have a rough patch of a few years get fired and still be fairly young for a coach if he were to return to the college ranks. I'm not saying it will happen, but given how young he is writing off any chance that Stevens returns to college is foolish. I do agree that Donovan is a more likely candidate to return to college. I'd imagine expectations are higher for Donovan, so if the Thunder falter he'll probably be shown the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shempie Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 7 hours ago, Clock_Tower said: Just a few categories and names of head coaches who have voluntarily left one school only to end up somewhere else: 1. Coaches who go back home/to their alma mater: Mike Anderson from Mizzou to Arkansas (Mike allegedly went "home" to where he was an assistant coach), Bob Huggins to West Virginia (Bob also went home), Bill Self left Illinois to Kansas (Bill also went "home" to where he previously coached) and Roy Williams went home to his alma mater, North Carolina. 2. Coaches who give up retirement. Many others retired only to then come out of retirement and back to coaching: Majerus to SLU, Spoonhour to UNLV, etc. 3. Coaches who leave the college game for the NBA only to return to college: Rick Pitino, John Calipari, etc. Possibly Brad Stevens? Didn't Buzz Williams leave Marquette for Virginia Tech voluntarily after a pretty nice stretch? That one always puzzled me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 28 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said: NBA coaching carousel can spin pretty quickly. I agree Stevens has been fantastic so far with the Celtics, but if they stagnate and can't make it out of the 1st round of the playoffs I wonder how long before Celtic fans and ownership has patience with him. Stevens is young enough (he's only 40) that he could be fairly successful for 5-10 more years in the NBA have a rough patch of a few years get fired and still be fairly young for a coach if he were to return to the college ranks. I'm not saying it will happen, but given how young he is writing off any chance that Stevens returns to college is foolish. I do agree that Donovan is a more likely candidate to return to college. I'd imagine expectations are higher for Donovan, so if the Thunder falter he'll probably be shown the door. Donovan was the perfect college coach. I think he will return to college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 While he was at Butler, Stevens was said the only college job he would leave Butler for was IU. Crean is established at Bloomington, but two, five, eight years from now, it would not be a total shock if Stevens ended up at IU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majerus mojo Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 25 minutes ago, HoosierPal said: While he was at Butler, Stevens was said the only college job he would leave Butler for was IU. Crean is established at Bloomington, but two, five, eight years from now, it would not be a total shock if Stevens ended up at IU. Keep dreaming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 I think Stevens tends to get too much credit for the one good year he's had with the Celtics, but that's just another reason he's a long, long way from ever having to go back to college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Mods - Is it possible to get the coach talk moved to a new thread? It's good conversation that is slightly off topic but deserves its own thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prebilliken Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 2 hours ago, HoosierPal said: While he was at Butler, Stevens was said the only college job he would leave Butler for was IU. Crean is established at Bloomington, but two, five, eight years from now, it would not be a total shock if Stevens ended up at IU. I will coach at Indiana before Stevens does. Here is the thing about "making it" in the Pros... Once you have a decent amount of success, which Stevens has, you ride inertia to multiple HC positions until you either reestablish yourself or finally fade out. Also, everything I've heard is that he LOVES being a pro coach because it doesn't come with all the extra details being a college coach does: recruiting, glad handing boosters, so on and so forth. And his success with the Celtics can't be understated. He's made the playoffs twice with an anemic roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 The Celtics were coming off a run of six or eight straight playoff appearances when he was hired. He had one rebuilding year, one year where they snuck into the playoffs and were bounced, and one legit good year when they were again bounced from the playoffs. I expect a step back from them this year, but the wunderkind reputation is not going away any time soon. Another first round loss and a lot of people will still be ready to throw him a parade. Of course, after seeing him lose to Jim Crews three times in one season with a top 10 team, I am probably always going to underrate him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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