White Pelican Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 it is not realistic to expect anyone to stay at an assistant's coach job when he / she gets an offer to be Head Coach somewhere at a significant multiple of his /her current salary. It is the way it is, should be expected if and when such offer comes. Harriman is still an assistant and it appears so will be Whitesell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Why do these assitants seem to move so close to basketball season. This is a good question. I don't begrudge Whitesell moving on to a program that can pay him more but it sucks that it comes right after the July evaluation period as it puts us behind the 8 ball on all the kids he was the principal recruiter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Hopefully those powers will change before this issue comes up again.. -easy to spend other people's money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 -easy to spend other people's money Well, SLU is sitting on close to a billion dollars. They can afford it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikens747 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Jeez, can we keep a coaching staff intact for longer than a year? On the bright side, opportunity to make a big hire right?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 You know JettFlight in some cases a billion may not be as ample as you may think. I did a lot of work for the MIT HR department and I can swear that place is like a small city. Professors, maintenance people, drivers, security, research staff, clerical staff, clinics, student services, stores, research labs, athletics, facilities. grounds, financial, keeping track of a jillion grants and sources of money, canvassing for more money, building, moving people around, PR and festivities arrangements, etc... MIT had it all, but you know what? Every single large university has the same amount of complexity and diversity of employees and functions. It is truly difficult to keep track of it all, and it truly is difficult to keep your endowment in place with so many worthy request for how to spend it. A billion may melt in a relatively short time if you are not careful about expenditures. SLU is no different as far as I am concerned. No way they are going to be open handed when they do not have to be open handed. It is really difficult to get to the billion level of endowment. It may be even more difficult to keep it that way. I do not see any chance for increasing the salaries of the assistant coaches unless they have a truly spectacular year that attracts a lot more money in donations and bequests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Not to mention: Endowments are not meant to be spent. (And even if they're drawn down from time to time for investments or one-time operating expenses, they're certainly not meant to be spent on athletics.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 A successful men's basketball program pays for itself ten times over. Lets not get into endowment talk because paying an assistant 120k isn't going to break the bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Foster Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Hey guys, St. John's fan here. Love your program, so excited to possibly be getting a coach off your staff -- Mike Dunlap's exit definitely had an effect on the level of our X's and O's. I just wanted to chime in quickly about the money issue I saw being bantered about here. St. John's is very fortunate to have a billionaire fan who played a large role in making money available for the post-Norm Roberts-era staff. When he was a lead assistant at SJU, Dunlap was making more than $400,000. If Whitesell is offered that number or close to it, it would be hard to turn down if he isn't making close to that at SLU. Not sure how the salaries for your staff break down, though. Good luck next season. Looking forward to watching you guys play whenever you are on TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 I don't think Whitesell has ever made 400k in any year of his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 You know JettFlight in some cases a billion may not be as ample as you may think. I did a lot of work for the MIT HR department and I can swear that place is like a small city. Professors, maintenance people, drivers, security, research staff, clerical staff, clinics, student services, stores, research labs, athletics, facilities. grounds, financial, keeping track of a jillion grants and sources of money, canvassing for more money, building, moving people around, PR and festivities arrangements, etc... MIT had it all, but you know what? Every single large university has the same amount of complexity and diversity of employees and functions. It is truly difficult to keep track of it all, and it truly is difficult to keep your endowment in place with so many worthy request for how to spend it. A billion may melt in a relatively short time if you are not careful about expenditures. SLU is no different as far as I am concerned. No way they are going to be open handed when they do not have to be open handed. It is really difficult to get to the billion level of endowment. It may be even more difficult to keep it that way. I do not see any chance for increasing the salaries of the assistant coaches unless they have a truly spectacular year that attracts a lot more money in donations and bequests. I just want to see the best program possible. Period. I think a small percentage of that money could be spent to improve the basketball program (which is the largest and most high profile at SLU). If it doesn't happen, there are far smarter people than me making that decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I'm pretty sure Whitesell made more money per year as the head coach at Loyola than he was making as an assistant at SLU. Once you make a certain level of salary, and then have to take a step down, it is a bitter pill to swallow. More so if you have bills to pay based on your previous salary level. If St. John's came calling and offered a much larger amount than his current salary, there is really nobody who can bemoan the man for moving on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 while the money might be the reason he leaves, typically people "look" for other reasons. i would bet it was somewhat of a blow that whitesell was passed over last year for the interim job. no denying that crews stepped up and no one can deny he crews results were dynamite, but still doesnt make it any easier for whitesell to know that he was passed over. good for jim that he gets a big pay raise. he has done a very good job during his time at saint louis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Amen to the roy statement. Isn't it the personal fulfillment mantra to always be looking to move forward? If so, the next move for Whitesell with us was as the head coach and he didn't get that nor the interim tag. Handwriting is on the wall in my mind if I'm him. So if the HC job is not to be had, then something else --- better salary, better league, bigger city, potential future advancment, etc. --- has to come into play. In compariosn to my observations on the Crews/Whitesell dynamic, I found it somewhat comical to watch Bobby Lutz on Mark Gottfried's NC State bench last year. That was not the same little hair-perfect, whirling dervish, ballistic Bobby Lutz we had all come to know and hate on the Charlotte bench. There's never a great time for turnover and while I don't know who, if anyone, Whitesell is the lead recruiter on, I can see at verbalcommits.com that St. John's is chasing no one we are chasing right now. I don't know why but I got the impression Platt and Bronson were the lead talent birddogs, not Whitesell. Likely wrong. But it would seem now is at least better then when we lost Jensen, relatively speaking. The July period that just closed was an evaluation period. If Whitesell did have his leads, I would expect him to complete and file his evaluations before he left. I believe, given the list Pistol keeps putting out on 2014 recruits, we've completed our evaluations to the point where offers have been made and interest is defined. I would suspect that at this point, we are just waiting to hear who's going to accept our 2014 offers. That Crews is now out there conducting final hard sells to our preferred targets. With Roby and Gillmann verbally locked (if you can "lock" a verbal) I would like to see at least two more commits happen in this fall's signing period. That would leave two more available for the late spring period. If we can lock up all six spots, so be it. But I'd be content 67% complete as the season starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I agree with Roy - no matter how you put it behind you being passed over will always be a knot in your stomach laying just below the surface. I am not surprised he is leaving. These coaches leave when the opportunity presents itself. At least this is not the week before practices begin as Jensen did. I found it interesting that JW stayed home when everybody else was in Las Vegas evaluating talent. That tells me that they knew he was leaving. I am not sure how much recruiting JW actually did - I know he would go and look at players early in the process and probably did help to keep the lines of communication open at times but I am not sure if he was the guy who was hand holding through the entire recruiting process. I am not worried about his leaving as it relates to recruiting - I do worry about who will do the Xs and Os prep work - who on staff will pick this up? I also hope we get a younger asst. who wants to hit the road to recruit like a mad man. As far as salaries go - we know they were increased to be competitive when RM came - do they need to be looked at again - I don't know the answer but I would hope some of the NCAA money is being spread around to them and if not then that is a mistake.. Something I learned over time is that there will always be somebody who will pay more than you if they deem that your guy is their gotta have. I only hope that we are paying a competitive salary to our assistants - can't ask for anything more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Lot of good points. It's a good move for him, and I wish him the best. Plus, this makes it easier. How many guys in their late 50s/early 60s named Jim can we possibly have on one staff? If Platt and Whitesell were standing next to one another, I couldn't tell you who was who. In all seriousness, I think we will be fine. Whitesell did a great job in his few seasons here and is moving on for more money and responsibility. No fault in that. He was a great coach but we still have some great basketball minds on staff. The game plans won't collapse. We'll either find another X's and O's guy or a strong recruiter. We'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Whitesell will be missed. He put together some great game plans for Butler, VCU, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 From a career standpoint, it is hard to look for a job, any job, once you have lost a head level job, and getting bypassed at a lower level job by someone who was hired after you. If you add to this the age factor, it was wonderful for Whitesell to get a new opportunity in life. This may or may not be an opportunity to get to the very top, but it is an opportunity to put some money away, straighten up finances and look forward to retirement in the future. I hope he does have a chance to move to HC at SJ. All the best to Jim Whitesell, he is very lucky to have gotten this opportunity and he should make the best he can out of it. He worked hard and to the best of his ability for SLU, may he enjoy his time at SJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMS67 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Jim Whitesell was responsible for putting together the non-con schedule. Probably more work to be done there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I'm pretty sure Whitesell made more money per year as the head coach at Loyola than he was making as an assistant at SLU. Once you make a certain level of salary, and then have to take a step down, it is a bitter pill to swallow. More so if you have bills to pay based on your previous salary level. If St. John's came calling and offered a much larger amount than his current salary, there is really nobody who can bemoan the man for moving on. I'm not begrudging Whitesell at all. He deserves it if someone will give it to him. I'm just tired of this school crying poor as guys like Harriman leave. Harriman and Whitesell left for huge raises...that's SLU's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I agree with Roy - no matter how you put it behind you being passed over will always be a knot in your stomach laying just below the surface. I am not surprised he is leaving. These coaches leave when the opportunity presents itself. At least this is not the week before practices begin as Jensen did. I found it interesting that JW stayed home when everybody else was in Las Vegas evaluating talent. That tells me that they knew he was leaving. I am not sure how much recruiting JW actually did - I know he would go and look at players early in the process and probably did help to keep the lines of communication open at times but I am not sure if he was the guy who was hand holding through the entire recruiting process. I am not worried about his leaving as it relates to recruiting - I do worry about who will do the Xs and Os prep work - who on staff will pick this up? I also hope we get a younger asst. who wants to hit the road to recruit like a mad man. As far as salaries go - we know they were increased to be competitive when RM came - do they need to be looked at again - I don't know the answer but I would hope some of the NCAA money is being spread around to them and if not then that is a mistake.. Something I learned over time is that there will always be somebody who will pay more than you if they deem that your guy is their gotta have. I only hope that we are paying a competitive salary to our assistants - can't ask for anything more. -Cheese, I believe there used to be a limit on the number of coaches that could be out at one time, not sure if there is still is, couldn't find a link of reasonable reading length to confirm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Crews needs to hire a really smart assistant to replace JW Hope the rumors are untrue and he stays Whitesell was very important at SLU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I'm not begrudging Whitesell at all. He deserves it if someone will give it to him. I'm just tired of this school crying poor as guys like Harriman leave. Harriman and Whitesell left for huge raises...that's SLU's fault. Until the athletic dept can afford it it is what it is. i suggest you increase your gift to slu athletics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HusakAttack Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Until the athletic dept can afford it it is what it is. i suggest you increase your gift to slu athletics +1 SLU is making calculated business decisions based on resources...nobody is at fault here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 +1 SLU is making calculated business decisions based on resources...nobody is at fault here Did Whitesell officially leave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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