Malcom Hill article at stltoday.com

[jjray]

To assert hughes was ever a good shooter, injury or not is a stretch. Hughes was indeed a scorer, but he was not more than a mediocre shooter. Beal is far more of an outside threat than larry was.

We'll Roy, maybe Spoon was just trying to pump up his guy going into the NBA draft but I distinctly remember him giving interviews after the season saying that Larry was killing it from behind the arc leading up to the start of the season then the injury changed everything. I don't think it matters in the final analysis when valuing Larry Hughes as a college player. He did so many things on the floor both offensively and defensively that he was an NBA lottery pick after his freshman year despite the subpar % from three. I think this whole thread started comparing Hill to Hughes coming out of high school. Larry was a stud recruit out of high school. Can't remember what he was ranked. I'd guess top 25 in the country.

[3Bill]

Maybe I should rephrase re Florida underachieving. They underachieved in the regular season. I agree that getting to the elite 8 is good. They also had some help from mizzou losing. Finished season outside the top 25 at around 30 in rpi. Again that's not much different from where Hughes team finished. Ur right though slu lost to kentucky ( who went on to win it all that year) and Florida made it further in the tourney (thanks Norfolk)

I still believe Hughes was better as a college player. Bleacherreport.com recently did a ranking of the best freshmen in college and beal was ranked 9. The same publication ranked the best freshmen seasons of all time and Hughes finished 28 (of all time).

I also agree that hughes was not a great 3 point shooter. However There is not a huge difference between 29 and 34 percent from three. Especially when u consider the kinds of defense Hughes was dealing with including double teams that beal is not getting. And I'm not sure how beal could have put up much better numbers than 20 plus ppg than Hughes did had he played on the 98 team. You thinks he would have averaged 30 a game? He is not the playmaker Hughes was.

Could argue about this foreve I just think people are letting Hughes disappointing nba career make them forget about how good he was in high school and college.

If hill is that good then we need to get him. I just doubt he's one of the 5 best high school kids in America like Hughes was.

I agree and hope beal probably will have a better pro career than Hughes. That however is irrelevant to who is better in college. Tyler hansborough was one of the best college players of all time and not much of an nba player.

[slu72]

Gotta love Billikens.com. A thread about one kid leads to a spat about two prior kids. Back to the original premise for a second, is there any chance we could land Malcolm Hill. I'm sure when his recruitment was open we were at least in on him at some level. Did we offer him? I like what RM's done w/our roster, but would still like to see us land an elite local or two.

[jbizzle09]

Maybe I should rephrase re Florida underachieving. They underachieved in the regular season. I agree that getting to the elite 8 is good. They also had some help from mizzou losing. Finished season outside the top 25 at around 30 in rpi. Again that's not much different from where Hughes team finished. Ur right though slu lost to kentucky ( who went on to win it all that year) and Florida made it further in the tourney (thanks Norfolk)

I still believe Hughes was better as a college player. Bleacherreport.com recently did a ranking of the best freshmen in college and beal was ranked 9. The same publication ranked the best freshmen seasons of all time and Hughes finished 28 (of all time).

I also agree that hughes was not a great 3 point shooter. However There is not a huge difference between 29 and 34 percent from three. Especially when u consider the kinds of defense Hughes was dealing with including double teams that beal is not getting. And I'm not sure how beal could have put up much better numbers than 20 plus ppg than Hughes did had he played on the 98 team. You thinks he would have averaged 30 a game? He is not the playmaker Hughes was.

Could argue about this foreve I just think people are letting Hughes disappointing nba career make them forget about how good he was in high school and college.

If hill is that good then we need to get him. I just doubt he's one of the 5 best high school kids in America like Hughes was.

I agree and hope beal probably will have a better pro career than Hughes. That however is irrelevant to who is better in college. Tyler hansborough was one of the best college players of all time and not much of an nba player.

Not much use referencing Bleacher Report. Articles there are just written by non-professional fans. It isn't legit journalism. I could write an article there making up any ranking I wanted today.

On another note, I don't think Hughes had a disappointing NBA career. Maybe he wasn't a perennial All-Star, but he led the league in steals one year and averaged 14 PPG for his career. He deserved to be the 3rd overall pick in the draft that year. He has nothing to be ashamed about regarding what he has accomplished in basketball. My whole point was that I think Beal is as, if not more, talented than Hughes was as a freshman. That's all.

[billiken_roy]

Not much use referencing Bleacher Report. Articles there are just written by non-professional fans. It isn't legit journalism. I could write an article there making up any ranking I wanted today.

On another note, I don't think Hughes had a disappointing NBA career. Maybe he wasn't a perennial All-Star, but he led the league in steals one year and averaged 14 PPG for his career. He deserved to be the 3rd overall pick in the draft that year. He has nothing to be ashamed about regarding what he has accomplished in basketball. My whole point was that I think Beal is as, if not more, talented than Hughes was as a freshman. That's all.

Totally agree other than lisch, my favorite billiken ever to watch was larry hughes. Hughes was great. It is just my opinion beal is greater

[P.B.]

Not much use referencing Bleacher Report. Articles there are just written by non-professional fans. It isn't legit journalism. I could write an article there making up any ranking I wanted today.

On another note, I don't think Hughes had a disappointing NBA career. Maybe he wasn't a perennial All-Star, but he led the league in steals one year and averaged 14 PPG for his career. He deserved to be the 3rd overall pick in the draft that year. He has nothing to be ashamed about regarding what he has accomplished in basketball. My whole point was that I think Beal is as, if not more, talented than Hughes was as a freshman. That's all.

The people of Cleveland and Chicago who follow the NBA more then you do would say that Larry Hughes had a disappointing career. He had a few good yeards with the Wizards but then never lived up to expectations after that. It can be argued that if he did live up to expectations in Cleveland they would have won a championship and LeBron would still be a Cavalier.

He made a lot of money and was a good player but I dont think he had the work ethic to reach his highest ability. What do you base him being the 3rd overall pick on? Dirk Nowitzki and Paul Pierce were drafted after him and other good players were drafted ahead of him

[thetorch]

Hughes was picked 8th.

98 Draft

1 Olowakandi

2. Bibby

3. Lafrentz

4. Jamison

5. Carter

6. Traylor

7. White Chocolate

8. Hughes

9. Nowitzki

10. Pierce

Now looking back on it the best players in that draft, most are retired are close to it.

1. Nowitzki

2. Pierce

3. Carter

4. Jamison

5. Lewis

6. Bibby

7. Harrington

8. Mobley

9. Hughes

10. White Chocolate

Hughes ended up pretty much where he belonged. He had nagging injury problems, was on some crappy teams that didn't know how to play him. The teams that did GS & Wash his time there was short lived. He was not a fit for the 76ers, as Iverson proved throughout his career he could not tolerate playing with another player who could score like he could. Played very well for 2-3 years for GS & Wash, nearly at an All Star level, then went to Cleveland to play with younger Lebron, who when Hughes was healthy which was rare, refused to play him in his proper role. Probably not the career Hughes hoped for but much better than most.

As far as Hughes vs Beal the nod goes to Hughes both in college and HS. Hughes won his state title against much better competition than Beal did. Beal couldn't even win one his Sr year. The 97 class was stacked with talent in the area, a lot of very good teams and Larry mowed through them. The Stars team Beal lost to was very similar to Larry's CBC teams, only with less talent. Then Larry puts SLU on his back with really not a very talented squad and dominates to a 10 seed. Florida had way more talent, Beal only gets them to a 7 seed and he very rarely dominated games the way Hughes did. Beal wold not have made the same type of impact playing alone that Larry did. Beal may be the better pro, as long as he improves his shooting, its really only because Beal has an NBA body, Larry never did. Put Larry's skill in Beal's body and you have an NBA HOFer.

[For-DaLove]

Beal may be the better pro, as long as he improves his shooting, its really only because Beal has an NBA body, Larry never did. Put Larry's skill in Beal's body and you have an NBA HOFer.

Please elaborate. I'm assuming you're saying this because Beal is built better muscle wise? I actually think his body, due to his height, is what may keep him from being a great pro.

The rest of your post was spot on. Larry had a good career. He was a lot less of a bust than some others who have been drafted in the top 10 in years past.

[ACE]

I think it is often overlooked what a great defensive player Hughes was... he was one of the best in the NBA for several years... Hughes was able to take a very mediocre cast at SLU and single-handedly carry them to the NCAA Tourney. No knock on Beal, who is obviously an outstanding player, but I don't think he can carry a team the way Larry did.

[SShoe]

Agree with a lot that has been said, but just to add, while Beal is a better shooter, Larry was better off the dribble and creating his own from mid-range.

[slufanskip]

I would rate Larry's college season ahead of Beal's.

[Taj79]

I think it was the old Street & Smith's magazine that had Hughes ranked as the second best high school player in the country that year. I forget who he was behind but I remember because I thopught it had to be a misprint. I mean, no way the second best player in the country would come to little Saint Louie Ewie, right? I figured a huge disappoint was coming. And he was not. Didn't know the brother situation at that time and never considered Hughes a true point guiard. But he was awesome just as much as Dwayne Wade was at the collegiate level. Brad Beal ain't there yet but he definitely has more talent around him that Hughes or Wade had.

[billiken_roy]

baron davis?

[JohnnyJumpUp]

I think it was the old Street & Smith's magazine that had Hughes ranked as the second best high school player in the country that year. I forget who he was behind but I remember because I thopught it had to be a misprint. I mean, no way the second best player in the country would come to little Saint Louie Ewie, right? I figured a huge disappoint was coming. And he was not. Didn't know the brother situation at that time and never considered Hughes a true point guiard. But he was awesome just as much as Dwayne Wade was at the collegiate level. Brad Beal ain't there yet but he definitely has more talent around him that Hughes or Wade had.

Beal IS there. It's not as evident, as with Hughes and Wade, because the team surrounding Beal is a lot more talented. Put Beal on Slu or Marquette those years and you would get similar results. I've seen both Hughes and Beal play several times, both in high school and college. In my opinion, Beal was the more dominant player in high school, although they were both extremely talented. Like Hughes, Beal has also put together a great freshman season this year and florida would not have been in the tournament and elite 8 without him. Hughes and Beal were both top collegiate guards as freshmen.

[Archy McNally]

I think Beal is a better shooter and may have the better overall game for a shooting guard but I think Hughes is the better athlete. Hughes was just so quick for someone with his height. At SLU, he could use his quickness, ballhandling (which I think was better than Beal's), and long arms to get shots off. In HS, he would just blow by everybody.

But his game was unorthodox for a shooting guard, he was not a sniper, not a catch and shoot guy from the perimeter, but he was good at shooting off the dribble, which is usually the hardest thing to do. He was kind of a tweener in the NBA playing shooting guard but I think he would have been better if he would have tried to make himself into a PG, but he never played it until too late. I heard Spoon was hoping to transition him to PG his Soph year if he stayed. Imagine him and Love as your 1 and 2.

[brianstl]

Larry was always overrated as a defender. He got a lot of steals, but that is because he took a lot of chances and those chances caused his team to get burned just as often as he created the turnover. He was not that strong of a on the ball defender at the NBA level.

[billiken_roy]

brian i disagree with your opinion of hughes as an nba defender. if i remember correctly he was on the all nba defensive team multiple years. gotta remember that most of the nba plays half a$$ed defense. so the comparison probably puts hughes near the top in his peak years.

i have come to believe over the years that hughes just didnt put the time in to make himself better. he was a superior athlete with great instincts and survived off that as long as he could. when he lost a half a step, he just didnt have the needed improvements in the rest of his game to offset the diminishment of that talent that got him there.

no doubt larry was something else. especially in high school and college.

[slu72]

I think he led the NBA in steals a number of seasons. Or was at least near the top tier of pick pockets.

[brianstl]

brian i disagree with your opinion of hughes as an nba defender. if i remember correctly he was on the all nba defensive team multiple years. gotta remember that most of the nba plays half a$$ed defense. so the comparison probably puts hughes near the top in his peak years.

i have come to believe over the years that hughes just didnt put the time in to make himself better. he was a superior athlete with great instincts and survived off that as long as he could. when he lost a half a step, he just didnt have the needed improvements in the rest of his game to offset the diminishment of that talent that got him there.

no doubt larry was something else. especially in high school and college.

He made the all-defensive team once in 2005. He never finished in the top 10 for a season in Defensive Rating or for Defensive Win Share.

[brianstl]

I think he led the NBA in steals a number of seasons. Or was at least near the top tier of pick pockets.

He led the league in steals once and finished 10th twice.

[SShoe]

Imagine him and Love as your 1 and 2.

That was always the depressing part of Larry's departure. Those two playing together would have been something special.

[Pistol]

You guys all realize you don't have to rely on your memories, right? Judging by your posts on this board, you have access to the Internet and all its wonders. I present to you Larry Hughes' Basketball Reference page.

Larry led the league in steals per game once, in 2004-2005. He was third in overall steals that season.

He's a so-so shooter: .406 for his NBA career, and .309 from outside (his SLU percentages were .415 and .290, respectively). Time will tell how good an NBA player Beal is, or how well he shoots at that level. My own feeling is that he is the better shooter of the two and has the ability to be a more complete NBA player.

Beal is not a good defensive player right now. He played for Kelvin Lee, which is probably the biggest reason for that. That said, he's got good length for a guy who will be a 2 in the NBA and he's active when he wants to be. He's got a lot to learn before he can be a good NBA defender, and that might be the biggest thing holding him back at this point.

Larry unquestionably had the better freshman season; there were a handful of better college freshmen than Beal this season, which doesn't necessarily mean they'll all be better pros. Had Beal gone to a place like SLU instead of Florida, with its crowded offense, he may have averaged 20.9 PPG like Hughes and been a clear second to Davis (because that race isn't fair this year).

Also, I know nothing about Hill.

[Cowboy]

-do we have a chance to get hill??

[cheeseman]

-do we have a chance to get hill??

How dare you ask a question about the kid in the original thread. Don't you know this thread is really about Hughs and Beal? To answer your question - maybe but a lot of big boys will be coming around now that he probably is not going to IL.

[billiken_roy]

How dare you ask a question about the kid in the original thread. Don't you know this thread is really about Hughs and Beal? To answer your question - maybe but a lot of big boys will be coming around now that he probably is not going to IL.

cheese, imo slu coaches should have pitched a tent at belleville east the evening that weber was fired. now if hill's high school coach tells us that no way hill is coming to slu then move on, but if nothing was/is even being attempted that is wrong. i have no idea if we are or arent.