A10 Awards

[Billikan]

which kwamain? the one we thought would come out this year or the one that did play this year? kwamain is a good player, but imo he did not play at the level i was expecting. he had flashes where he was downright amazing, but he had a lot of casper disappearing moments as well. i would probably take the soph kwamain over this year kwamain.

that all said, third team all conference is nothing to sneeze at or complain about mitchell is a very good player and i am thrilled we have another year coming of mitchell ball.

If your analysis is limited to scoring then I agree with you that KM has not reached his level of production from his second year. However, particularly in the second half of the year, he has become a better all around player and a solid defender. He also has made some really big plays at key times in games when we really needed them. Next year, after a year working with McCall and JJ, he will be the sage leader of a very good team.

[billiken_roy]

Roy, I'm shocked that you didn't pick Majerus for this award! Considering that I believe you predicted SLU as an 18-win team, didn't RM greatly exceed expectations in your eyes?

actually i said 20 wins counting the springfield win. doesnt surprise me though that you would try to downgrade what i said.

the expectations the team exceeded in my mind was the tourney in anaheim and the wins vs XU. again, the best coach is the best coach. unless you show me where the definition of the A-10 coach of the year is the coach that exceeded preseason expectations the most, the best coach this year was dunphy.

[billiken_roy]

If your analysis is limited to scoring then I agree with you that KM has not reached his level of production from his second year. However, particularly in the second half of the year, he has become a better all around player and a solid defender. He also has made some really big plays at key times in games when we really needed them. Next year, after a year working with McCall and JJ, he will be the sage leader of a very good team.

again, i am not trying to say mitchell didnt have a good season. he had a very good season. but i think most of us expected more. i did. i think 3rd team is a good spot for him and that is a very good award for anyone and nothing to be ashamed or disappointed about.

[SShoe]

as to coach of the year, let me get this straight, you all want to penalize the guy that just continues to win to give it to the guy that improved the most from last year? shouldnt the award be most improved season coach then?

the way i look at it, returning players, sustained program, win vs duke, win vs slu, finished higher in the standings with a better conference record. dunphy is the better coach. i will give rickma the most improved program. but he didnt have a better season than dunphy.

C'mon Roy, certainly Dunphy did a great job, but part of the criteria for this type of award is getting the most out of your talent, exceeding expectations, etc. By your logic, Calipari should be a lock to receive the national COY because Kentucky had a better season than all other teams. But given that these other things play a role, its going to go to a Bill Self, Frank Haith, or Steve Fisher type.

One of the team's biggest strengths is the man on the sideline and he deserved to be recognized for it.

[jbizzle09]

C'mon Roy, certainly Dunphy did a great job, but part of the criteria for this type of award is getting the most out of your talent, exceeding expectations, etc. By your logic, Calipari should be a lock to receive the national COY because Kentucky had a better season than all other teams. But given that these other things play a role, its going to go to a Bill Self, Frank Haith, or Steve Fisher type.

One of the team's biggest strengths is the man on the sideline and he deserved to be recognized for it.

+1. I always thought of COY candidates as the ones who get the most out of the talent they have. As I stated, you can't really argue with Dunphy as the choice. Just feel that an excellent case can be made for RM, especially when you see the turnaround from the previous season.

[Franchise_08]

Hey let's not gripe about postseason awards since Conklin did get 1st team honors that I did not believe he would get. Let's not turn turn into Columbia here. God, they are whining biotches.

[ACE]

actually i said 20 wins counting the springfield win. doesnt surprise me though that you would try to downgrade what i said.

the expectations the team exceeded in my mind was the tourney in anaheim and the wins vs XU. again, the best coach is the best coach. unless you show me where the definition of the A-10 coach of the year is the coach that exceeded preseason expectations the most, the best coach this year was dunphy.

Correct, you did say 20... 20-11, the Bills clearly exceeded that. If Temple would have lost to UMass in that OT game and we finished with the same record, would that have swayed your vote to RM? Temple has a roster full of players who have earned a trip to the Big Dance. The Bills entered this season with 0 players with that type of success. Even though most Billiken faithful were hopeful, there were a lot more unknowns heading into this season for SLU than there were for Temple.

[brianstl]

again, i am not trying to say mitchell didnt have a good season. he had a very good season. but i think most of us expected more. i did. i think 3rd team is a good spot for him and that is a very good award for anyone and nothing to be ashamed or disappointed about.

So you would have perferred to have Tu or Dillard on your team this year?

[billiken_roy]

So you would have perferred to have Tu or Dillard on your team this year?

i am not sure. dillard had one game where he totally dominated mitchell and dayton beat us mainly because of it. going into the season even with higher expectations for mitchell than what i think he gave us, i would have taken Tu in a heartbeat. but that said, i do pretty much blame Tu for his lack of maturity and leadership after the cincy game and there is no doubt his season didnt measure up to what people expected from him as well. that said, tu's stats are significantly better and prior to this season we have never seen him behave like he did after that game. i probably would have taken tu over mitchell even in hindsight.

again, we are arguing about all conference players. they all had very good seasons.

[jbizzle09]

i am not sure. dillard had one game where he totally dominated mitchell and dayton beat us mainly because of it. going into the season even with higher expectations for mitchell than what i think he gave us, i would have taken Tu in a heartbeat. but that said, i do pretty much blame Tu for his lack of maturity and leadership after the cincy game and there is no doubt his season didnt measure up to what people expected from him as well. that said, tu's stats are significantly better and prior to this season we have never seen him behave like he did after that game. i probably would have taken tu over mitchell even in hindsight.

again, we are arguing about all conference players. they all had very good seasons.

I, for one, am just happy that Kwamain made 3rd team. With the number of really good guards in the A-10 this season, coupled with the good, but not great, season that Mitchell had, I think he was placed exactly where he should be this year. I am sure many could make a legit justification that he should have been Honorable Mention or perhaps off altogher.

Now, as for the other question, who would I rather have, I would take KM in a heartbeat over Dillard or Tu. One could go back and forth about stats, ability and so forth, but I think KM works better for this team and with this coach than either of those two players ever could. Just a matter of personal opinion, I suppose.

[jimbofive]

I, for one, am just happy that Kwamain made 3rd team. With the number of really good guards in the A-10 this season, coupled with the good, but not great, season that Mitchell had, I think he was placed exactly where he should be this year. I am sure many could make a legit justification that he should have been Honorable Mention or perhaps off altogher.

Now, as for the other question, who would I rather have, I would take KM in a heartbeat over Dillard or Tu. One could go back and forth about stats, ability and so forth, but I think KM works better for this team and with this coach than either of those two players ever could. Just a matter of personal opinion, I suppose.

THIS.

[Major Majerus]

I understand when you look at numbers why he only made the third team, but how many would take Tu or Dillard over Kwamain? I wouldn't.

FTs - what happened there? Than can't be from a year off. Next year I expect 80%

[Taj79]

I disagree with roy's choice of Dunphy. After more time to mull things over, I am still going with old whatshisname at Bonaventure. Mark Schmidt. I knew I'd get it! He was 17 -11/10-6 in conference for a tie for third. All this with one player and playin gin Olean, NY.

Dunphy's biggest attribute, to me, was his win over Duke. Temple was picked for second in the preseason, were they not? He returned his entiring starting lineup sans Lavoy Allen, did he not? Hell, all he had to do was find the key to the gym and open the doors.

Majerus was deserving; no need to go there.

Derek Kellog was the fourth. He had some nice athletes in Putney, Williams and Morgan. Going to be interesting to guage the threat from western Mass as the years move along.

[The Pelican]

If your analysis is limited to scoring then I agree with you that KM has not reached his level of production from his second year. However, particularly in the second half of the year, he has become a better all around player and a solid defender. He also has made some really big plays at key times in games when we really needed them. Next year, after a year working with McCall and JJ, he will be the sage leader of a very good team.

I agree with both you and Roy if that is possible.

I believe that KM's body of work as a whole this season was a disappointment. His first half of basketball this season was troubling in comparison to expectations. His defense and offense were less than stellar.

His second half of basketball was a huge improvement. I do believe his production on both sides of the floor were still at times spotty.

I think the above has much to do with having a compliment of very good players to share the burden. I am glad he is coming around in time for when it really matters. If there is a player who gets the ball with ten seconds to go it is KM all day in my eyes and he is still the man.

[kwyjibo]

Derek Kellog was the fourth. He had some nice athletes in Putney, Williams and Morgan. Going to be interesting to guage the threat from western Mass as the years move along.

You are clearly confusing coaching and recruiting.

The real reason we lost at UMass (the kids were on their side):

[MB73]

I disagree with roy's choice of Dunphy. After more time to mull things over, I am still going with old whatshisname at Bonaventure. Mark Schmidt. I knew I'd get it! He was 17 -11/10-6 in conference for a tie for third. All this with one player and playin gin Olean, NY.

Dunphy's biggest attribute, to me, was his win over Duke. Temple was picked for second in the preseason, were they not? He returned his entiring starting lineup sans Lavoy Allen, did he not? Hell, all he had to do was find the key to the gym and open the doors.

Majerus was deserving; no need to go there.

Derek Kellog was the fourth. He had some nice athletes in Putney, Williams and Morgan. Going to be interesting to guage the threat from western Mass as the years move along.

Agree, RM was hosed, typical predictable eastern bias, I cannot believe there is not very much support on this board for this outrage.

Temple had an established winning squad, whereas Majerus took a 12-19 team with essentially the same players (+KM but missing a yr clearly affected him) and came within a hair of tying Temple for the league championship.

You point out Temple beat Duke but it was a Super Bowl game for them; but to Duke it was a chore, a dstraction during conference play, the home team always has a huge advantage during conferce play when you squeeze in a non conferecne game, so they were not fired up. And Duke is not the usual Duke, I think they are about 16th in the MB73 poll as previously posted, before their blowout loss to NC I said they would be fortunate to make it to Sweet 16.

Again, shocked that more posters are not outraged that Majerus did not get Coach of the Year.

[Taj79]

@kwjybo --- my, my how you have shrunk since I last saw you in AC!!!!

[Cowboy]

-i agree would have been good for Rick to be coach of the year and while i don't know the exact criteria on which the award is judged he seems very worthy

-i wonder if he cares? i wonder if he was coach of the yr in his other conferences so this could have achieved that at all of his stops?

[Billsrmajic]

going into the season even with higher expectations for mitchell than what i think he gave us, i would have taken Tu in a heartbeat. but that said, i do pretty much blame Tu for his lack of maturity and leadership after the cincy game and there is no doubt his season didnt measure up to what people expected from him as well. that said, tu's stats are significantly better and prior to this season we have never seen him behave like he did after that game. i probably would have taken tu over mitchell even in hindsight.

Roy, I'm shocked that you wrote that you would have taken Tu over KM even after knowing what happened with the brawl. You have expressed over and over again how important it is for all SLU athletes and coaches to represent the university well, yet in this case you would choose a thug over KM? Give me a break. Did you even watch Tu play a week ago? Total punk. Definitely did not represent X well at the SLU game, much less during the brawl or the interview afterward. You hold this stance, yet criticize Rick for not being (in your mind) a good person. Bit of a double standard.

Also, I understand your thoughts about the Coach of the Year. Dunphy is a deserving winner because he coached the best team in the league. He's done the job well for several years, building up a great group of players, and he deserves this recognition. Often coaches of great teams don't win Coach of the Year because it usually goes to a coach of a team which shows lots of improvement. For example, I believe Phil Jackson only won Coach of the Year once, yet he won 11 championships. So I definitely understand your reasoning about this award, Roy. That's why I'm already looking forward to your post next March championing Rick's nomination for Coach of the Year after the Billikens win the A-10. That will be a great moment!

[billiken_roy]

Roy, I'm shocked that you wrote that you would have taken Tu over KM even after knowing what happened with the brawl. You have expressed over and over again how important it is for all SLU athletes and coaches to represent the university well, yet in this case you would choose a thug over KM? Give me a break. Did you even watch Tu play a week ago? Total punk. Definitely did not represent X well at the SLU game, much less during the brawl or the interview afterward. You hold this stance, yet criticize Rick for not being (in your mind) a good person. Bit of a double standard.

Also, I understand your thoughts about the Coach of the Year. Dunphy is a deserving winner because he coached the best team in the league. He's done the job well for several years, building up a great group of players, and he deserves this recognition. Often coaches of great teams don't win Coach of the Year because it usually goes to a coach of a team which shows lots of improvement. For example, I believe Phil Jackson only won Coach of the Year once, yet he won 11 championships. So I definitely understand your reasoning about this award, Roy. That's why I'm already looking forward to your post next March championing Rick's nomination for Coach of the Year after the Billikens win the A-10. That will be a great moment!

You are lecturing me about tu's I guess ethics? You want to talk double standards? Don't throw tu's thug talk at me but gloss over mitchell initiating the incident. Before I am attacked, this guy brought up the ethical point. And we did have the artical posted a few weeks back where tu expressed his regrets for his speech. Mitchell got his second chance and it was deserved. So give tu the same benefit of the doubt and let's compare floor performance.

As to your one year from now rickma dream. I guess if the billikens indeed win the conf that would be true.

[Billsrmajic]

You are lecturing me about tu's I guess ethics? You want to talk double standards? Don't throw tu's thug talk at me but gloss over mitchell initiating the incident. Before I am attacked, this guy brought up the ethical point. And we did have the artical posted a few weeks back where tu expressed his regrets for his speech. Mitchell got his second chance and it was deserved. So give tu the same benefit of the doubt and let's compare floor performance.

As to your one year from now rickma dream. I guess if the billikens indeed win the conf that would be true.

I was referring to Tu's behavior during the brawl, but also his behavior at the Fetz on Feb. 28. I thought he played like a thug (along with Lyons). I have never seen Mitchell behave in an embarrassing way on the court. I can't say the same of Tu.

[billiken_roy]

You can't put your chaifetz observations last week on me. I have been in florida for 9 days and was not at the xu game.

[jbizzle09]

I was referring to Tu's behavior during the brawl, but also his behavior at the Fetz on Feb. 28. I thought he played like a thug (along with Lyons). I have never seen Mitchell behave in an embarrassing way on the court. I can't say the same of Tu.

To be honest, the only one I saw behave badly at the Fetz was Lyons. Tu more or less just played with no emotion or fire, as if he didn't care. Considering the story that ESPN did on him a few weeks ago, can't say I am all that surprised. Seems like he just wants the season to end and move forward with his life. I am sure he will try his hand at pro ball, but wouldn't completely surprise me if he just gave up playing basketball within the next couple of years.

[slufanskip]

Tu probably read my posts regarding him, realized I was right, and gave up. Deep inside I think he always knew that once hit quit getting bogus fouls called in his favor the lack of any other game besides shooting f/t's would catch up to him. On the plus side ...there are plenty of players just the oposite of him, they have plenty of game, they just can't hit a f/t. He can probably make a nice career as a roving f/t instructor.

[SShoe]

To be honest, the only one I saw behave badly at the Fetz was Lyons. Tu more or less just played with no emotion or fire, as if he didn't care. Considering the story that ESPN did on him a few weeks ago, can't say I am all that surprised. Seems like he just wants the season to end and move forward with his life. I am sure he will try his hand at pro ball, but wouldn't completely surprise me if he just gave up playing basketball within the next couple of years.

Agreed. Tu didn't act like a thug at all, but rather like a guy who had checked out mentally. I think Tu is all right, he just let his emotions get the best of him and is paying the price.

Lyons, on the other hand....