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Recruit preference question...


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I think it's pretty ludicrous to start talking about who's gonna leave or who isn't. I would bet money '72 is talking about McGuire and/or Knollmeyer. Even though he's probably NEVER seen the guys play and the entire fandom have only seen a like a combined 30 minutes of game time. Sounded like Bogut was gonna leave Utah and he was an All-American. I don't think skill level has anything to do with Rick's player's leaving.

One thing I've learned about RM since his hiring is that he genuinely cares for his players and the experience of college. How many times has he stressed the Jesuit education. The college life. The teaching. I don't know where you get the assumption that he intends to "run players off". I think the only time people will leave is if they can't hack the level of work he demands.

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i have no reason not to agree with you willie, but they will leave for their reasons. i do not believe they are going to leave because coach majerus has a pre-determined list of players he is going to make quit or just flat out tell them to leave.

they will leave for academics, they will leave for playing time, they will leave because of personalities but i dont think majerus seems like the type that is out to clean the roster of soderberg players just because they are not majerus recruits.

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I agree and disagree. Take DM. Brad's recruit. He will be given an opportunity to win playing time in the fall. If he doesn't win time I think RM would be the type of coach who would go to him and say why don't you go somewhere where you can play. Because he is not a Majerus recruit I think that playing time will be harder to win. Hopefully DM or anyone else who doesn't get time will move on. Hey I hope DM becomes a great player, a real sharp shooter,something he didn't show Brad.Majerus's turnover history suggests he is not opposed to telling players to leave or creating an enviroment where they want to leave.

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I agree to talk about kids leaving is premature and quite frankly inappropriate now. Even if a kid does choose to leave during next year - I do agree that those things do happen for lots of reasons - that schollie would not be available to give for this fall 2008 class. I doubt any of those kids we are recruiting would wait until the spring to see what happened. We got 6 to give if Paul E. is a one and done committment.

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Where in my post did I say RM would "run" anyone off the team? I think if there is not some sign of contribution by some people, they will simply look elsewhere. Their choice. Look, you get recruited to a D1 80 to a 100 program after being a star in HS, you want to play. You came there with the idea you could. It's in your frigging blood and riding the pine can't be too much fun unless you're on a Duke or a UNC. I think it would be natural for a kid to say, "hey, I could be a starter at East Hoboken State", see Darren Clarke. Why do kids transfer: no playing time, dislike the coach, girlfriend goes to East Hoboken State, too far from home, can't cut the academics, etc... Now from all what's been written about RM you do come away with the idea he runs pretty demanding practice sessions and doesn't mince words. If you're a kid sitting on the bench and being picked on in practices, you ain't gonna' be too happy. Not after four years of HS where no one ever said boo to you and thought you were the greatest thing since sliced bread. Furthermore, you see a promising incoming class and figure your stock is dropping even more. What're you gonna do? Transfer. I never said "run off". Someone said he hoped certain players had break out years, so do I. That only makes us better. But if they don't, I can see them choosing to go somewhere else where they'll be more appreciated and, more important, more content.

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>I agree and disagree. Take DM. Brad's recruit. He will be

>given an opportunity to win playing time in the fall. If he

>doesn't win time I think RM would be the type of coach who

>would go to him and say why don't you go somewhere where you

>can play. Because he is not a Majerus recruit I think that

>playing time will be harder to win. Hopefully DM or anyone

>else who doesn't get time will move on. Hey I hope DM

>becomes a great player, a real sharp shooter,something he

>didn't show Brad.Majerus's turnover history suggests he is

>not opposed to telling players to leave or creating an

>enviroment where they want to leave.

I'm not trying to run a kid off and this is pure speculation, but if DM is riding the pine for a second straight year, I don't think there would be any reason for him to stay. I hope he contributes this year and proves to be a valuable sharpshooter. If he is, then I don't think we would need that Roth kid.

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I agree with 72. We can talk about whether a player can shoot, jump, how hard he practices, whether or not he is even good enough to be recruited by the Bills, whether or not he is good enough to play D1 period, etc .... but we can't talk about who may or may not be good enough to get playing time and if they don't, may decide to leave?

We have to run criticizm by DocB ... who do we have to run this by?

There is no doubt that the question can be made whether DM is good enough to get many if any minutes. If he doesn't he may decide to leave and go to a school where he can play. I don't think that means anyone is hoping he doesn't. I'm sure everyone here hopes he has an all A-10 congerence year. I do.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman

Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club.

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ANY kid not named Tommie or Kevin sitting on Brad's bench as a freshman deserves a full year under Rick Majerus before we start this kind of talk. I'm not Doc B but based on description how different is Dustin's highschool record from Roth's? Shouldn't we give him a chance?

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Without talking about any specific coach or program, it seems that there is always attrition when a new regime takes over, even without the coach deciding to force a player out.

For better or worse, kids will make decisions in part due to their feeling about the staff, (and usually have strong, positive feelings about the staff that recruited them). Changes in those personalities, as well as program requirements, expectations, to say nothing of playing time or sets run all influence how a kid feels about a program / school.

Some choose to adapt; some choose not to and leave.

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1 Roth

2 Perry

3 John

I'm not as high on John as many here are. I like players who can shoot the ball. John does most of his scoring from inside 15 ft. and I think it is unlikely that he will be able to do that at the college level. Perhaps he will improve from the outside but for now he is a very poor 3 point shooter and his ft shooting is mediocre also. I don't like guards who can't make ft's. One of the things I like about KM is he shot over 90% from the ft line. Roth on the other hand can shoot the ball. He provides an instant threat when in the game. Every team they play will have to respect him, opening things up for everyone else.

Look at John's stats and tell me why you would want him over Roth.

field goal % 48 %

3 point % 28%

ft % 54%

_

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72- Look at your post #22 ...without naming names there will be players that leave... or something like that. So, you did talk about players leaving. Skip, the problem with talking now about kids leaving is that they have not even been given a chance to show what they can do with RM. From my perspective, it would be best to simply wait and see what develops. Now, you can talk about whatever you want as much as you want but then don't get upset when somebody disagrees.

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How many of you remember when Brad Soderberg was an assistant to Lorenzo Romar and he mentioned to Romar that perhaps they should recommend that John Seyfert transfer? Soderberg related that anecdote at a Tip-Off Club meeting. He said that Romar objected, saying to give him a chance. Soderberg lost players himself (for various reasons): Jason Edwin, Randy Pulley, John Seyfert, Floyd McClain, Darren Clark, Horace Dixon, and Obi Ikeakor -- not counting the juco recruits he signed but weren't able to get into school. Seven players in five years -- and he is a good guy.

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I have read your thoughts on Roth these past few days but you say you would take John before Roth. Please explain why. I thought John was the third best on his current high school team. I know they play different roles on the court, but why John over Roth. I am not debating your answer just want inquiring more about your reasoning.

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I just believe that Majerus can get out of Maguire, what Roth would being. I just thought it be more balance if you get another slasher over a shooter. I havent seen the Bills get a lot of layups over the years, and I just wanted to add more slashers, to get easier buckets. I want both guys, but I think Femi can help more. If Roth has an off shooting day, he has no effect on the game and is a liability. John has the tools to do much more, and people dont understand the kind of high release point he has on his jumpshot and how much lift he gets off the ground with it. Virtually unblockable midrange jumper. He shoots it with a very high percentage. Production-wise John is second on his team. Booker is good, but he's higher regarded because he's 6'8, can shoot the 3, run the floor, rebound, and handle the ball. Booker is higher based on potential, not production.

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I think two things are certain in this debate:

1) Based on RM's recruiting success early on, it's going to be difficult to earn playing time on this team in the future. There will be more depth and everyone will need to prove they deserve to see the court.

2) Some players will leave. Every school loses players for one reason or another — even McDonald's All-Americans transfer schools. We can all speculate about what players will not stay around for a few more years. I know I have. It may be because they aren't good enough to contribute, but it may also be because they are more likely to get significant playing time somewhere else.

If Majerus signs six players for the Class of 2008, what are the odds all six will finish their careers at Saint Louis U.? Probably not good.

- Nate

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I'm not against giving anyone a chance. I just don't see the difference between discussing who might leave and almost everything else we discuss. We are talking about whether Femi John is good enough to get an offer and most have never seen him play. I'm not saying whether he should leave or not, what I am saying is based upon everything else we discuss ... I don't see the problem or the difference.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman

Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club.

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Yes, I said could possibly leave, but not run off. Leave like Jon Seyfert or Darren Clarke. We may never know why if in fact it really happens. Would RM target a kid whose not helping and cut him up mercilessly to drive him out? I don't know if that's his style, but that would in effect be running him off. I would hope not. Would much prefer he pull him in his office and be straightforward about it. Something like, "it's in the best interests of both parties." I'm just speculating here, but I think the "Pleasantville" days are over for SLU hoops.

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