Dayton, VCU and Wichita St. to AAC?

[billikenfan05]

2 hours ago, ARon said:

Conferences don't give a damn about what a school's non-revenue sports are like.  None of that moves the needle.

That's not true. Plain and simple. You have to be able to raise a conference's profile across the board. If we don't end up in a better conference It's at least partially due to our mediocre to poor non-revs. 

When I say I think outside of the Valley nobody is interested in us I mean that's the case as far as the non-football conferences. 

[slu72]

From that article it sounds like the AAC wants only 12 teams for hoops and WSU is their choice. My first take is Marshall has always coached in lower level mid major conferences where his teams dominated. This isn't going to happen in the AAC not w/ facing UConn, UC, Memphis, SMU, et al. Not doubting Marshall's coaching or recruiting ability, but he is stepping up to a much higher level of competition than he's faced before. Yes, he did get WSU into a final 4 and made the tourney just about every year. The guy can coach, but WSU's not going to go 28-3 every year like Winthrop and WSU did in their respective conferences. I think WSU will struggle in the AAC. Maybe they should have stayed in the Valley and dominated it much like Zaga does in their conference.

[JMM28]

35 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

When I say I think outside of the Valley nobody is interested in us I mean that's the case as far as the non-football conferences. 

I don't know if there's really a good fit out there on SLUs side either, besides the MVC. 

The present options, outside of a long shot big east invite, would be A10, MVC, or some sort of long shot Midwest/east private school conference with some sort of conglomeration of MVC, A10, and Horizon schools. 

[hoppybeer]

The MVC is not and will not ever be as good as the A10. Even if Dayton and VCU were to leave for some reason, it would still be better than the MVC. There is not reason for SLU to consider joining the MVC.

[billikenfan05]

19 minutes ago, hoppybeer said:

The MVC is not and will not ever be as good as the A10. Even if Dayton and VCU were to leave for some reason, it would still be better than the MVC. There is not reason for SLU to consider joining the MVC.

You are correct. I have no interest in seeing SLU join the MVC. I would however love to be able to attend our conference tournament without having to fly. I would love to be able to attend a conference road game more than once in a blue moon.

[Soderball]

On 4/2/2017 at 0:15 AM, milwaukeebill said:

I actually thought Wichita was fairly seeded. Yes they were top 10 in kenpom, but their results looked like a 10 seed. Their best win outside 2 Illinois state wins was Oklahoma who didnt make the tournament or NIT. They beat no tournament teams i believe. NCAA can't seed based on your kenpom, they have to seed based on how you actually performed. And they really didn't beat anyone this year.

Hard to do so when none of them will play ya. Apologizing for the committee in this regard is truly pathetic. Shame on you and shame on your bad opinions.

 

20 hours ago, JMM28 said:

I see your point, but I think you're operating under a flawed conclusion and working backwards. The MVC still has plenty of opportunity to be a multi bid league. The same "only one bid league" was said when Creighton left, yet they've been a multi bid league more years than not since then.

That level of league, along with the other mid majors, tend to be reliant on 4 year players. Programs tend to be a little cyclical in that regard which has led typically strong programs to be down - SMS, SIU, Bradley. The league schedule has been way down compared to the 2006 year where they put 4 and should have been 5 in the tournament. 

The Valley will be just fine, it has survived a lot of upward defections over the years. 

When you've got Koch brothers money coming in, you'll always be able to compete for top coaches. 

 Bradley has been totally irrelevant for a long, long time.

In the past Illinois State would have been an at-large. They weren't this year. The college basketball world is changing.

 

18 hours ago, Billy Ken said:

The chips are beginning to fall and if Dayton and VCU bolt as reported. A10 is not the conference I would prefer to stay in anymore. Without football or entry into Big East I feel like we will be in a bad conference limbo for the foreseeable future. It just doesn't seem like we have a plan, just sit back and wait for Ford to bring us back to promise land. That's a scary strategy, but sounds like the reality. What if he doesn't deliver on his promises? We can play what if game all day I get that, I just have a feeling slu is at a major crossroads conference-wise and my biggest fear will be that slu is left behind. 

If Dayton and VCU bolt, SLU needs to run for it before the A10 becomes another CUSA. Getting out of CUSA when SLU did was the second wisest decision the admin. has made after the hiring of Majerus.

 

17 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article142152734.html

Rest easy BK.  The AAC appears to be stopping at WSU's addition. 

That's a relief for SLU.

 

15 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

the problem with SLU is that we don't have much to offer beyond Basketball and men's Soccer. The rest of SLU sports fall on the NCAA average line or below. That as much as our lack of success the last couple years is going to keep us on the outside of any conference realignment. Outside of the Valley I don't think we're a hot commodity among conferences for expansion/addition.

With all due respect, 05, that is pretty downright irrelevant. Nonrevenue sports are absurdly hit-or-miss and their success has 0 impact on conference affiliation, SLU's programs do OK for what they are, and would continue to do so. Nonrevenue sports tend to be very widely varying in who wins in a given year. SIUE competes pretty well in nonrevenue sports, despite a tuition there being worth about 200$ per credit hour and admission guaranteed to anyone who can read.

 

 

[Soderball]

6 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

You are correct. I have no interest in seeing SLU join the MVC. I would however love to be able to attend our conference tournament without having to fly. I would love to be able to attend a conference road game more than once in a blue moon.

Joining the MVC would cripple SLU basketball permanently. That's a scary prospect. The A10 as it exists now is where SLU should be, due to the hatred of some fellow Jesuits for SLU and the resultant impossibility of joining the Big East as it is.

Wait for the next realignment. The whole system will blow up again before too long. Something's gotta give.

[kmbilliken]

2 hours ago, Soderball said:

Joining the MVC would cripple SLU basketball permanently. That's a scary prospect. The A10 as it exists now is where SLU should be, due to the hatred of some fellow Jesuits for SLU and the resultant impossibility of joining the Big East as it is.

Wait for the next realignment. The whole system will blow up again before too long. Something's gotta give.

Is the hatred from BIONDI? Can't this be repaired?

[brianstl]

On 4/2/2017 at 0:15 AM, milwaukeebill said:

I actually thought Wichita was fairly seeded. Yes they were top 10 in kenpom, but their results looked like a 10 seed. Their best win outside 2 Illinois state wins was Oklahoma who didnt make the tournament or NIT. They beat no tournament teams i believe. NCAA can't seed based on your kenpom, they have to seed based on how you actually performed. And they really didn't beat anyone this year.

 

4 hours ago, Soderball said:

Hard to do so when none of them will play ya. Apologizing for the committee in this regard is truly pathetic. Shame on you and shame on your bad opinions.

They did play them.  The Shockers played Louisville, Michigan St. and Oklahoma St..  All three were at large teams just like the Shockers.  They lost to them all.  OSU was a 10 seed and MSU was a 9 seed.  How can you justify the Shockers getting a higher seed than those two teams?

They, also, had games with OU and LSU.  

The Shockers problem wasn't that the big boys wouldn't play them.  The Shockers problem was that they didn't win the games they needed to win to get a higher seed.

[2010andBeyond]

2 hours ago, brianstl said:

 

They did play them.  The Shockers played Louisville, Michigan St. and Oklahoma St..  All three were at large teams just like the Shockers.  They lost to them all.  OSU was a 10 seed and MSU was a 9 seed.  How can you justify the Shockers getting a higher seed than those two teams?

They, also, had games with OU and LSU.  

The Shockers problem wasn't that the big boys wouldn't play them.  The Shockers problem was that they didn't win the games they needed to win to get a higher seed.

Agree, not sure how the "no one will play them" theory got started with respect to Wich St. Their seed was due to the fact that 16 of their last 18 games were against terrible opponents because the conference they are in was solidly ranked between the colonial and the sun belt. They definitely were playing much better towards the end of the season but the entire body of work didn't merit a much better seed than they got. 

[Glorydays2013]

Don't they need to do this soon so they can schedule opponents? 

[JMM28]

19 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

Don't they need to do this soon so they can schedule opponents? 

It is a fine line. They will probably wait until spring sports wrap up to announce it officially. Wouldn't want their spring sports getting an unfair shake. 

The MVC knows what is going on though, they blew off most meetings at the tournament.

Best bet for the MVC is that they leave after this coming basketball season. MVC would keep all tournament units earned by them that way. 

[HoosierPal]

1 hour ago, JMM28 said:

It is a fine line. They will probably wait until spring sports wrap up to announce it officially. Wouldn't want their spring sports getting an unfair shake. 

The MVC knows what is going on though, they blew off most meetings at the tournament.

Best bet for the MVC is that they leave after this coming basketball season. MVC would keep all tournament units earned by them that way. 

Yesterday's Wichita Eagle article I posted near the bottom of page 5 offers up potential timelines, perhaps as early as this week.

[Westward]

On 3/24/2017 at 8:23 AM, slu72 said:

Should this speculation about VCU and DU come to fruition what would SLU's options be?:

3.) Try and weasel our way into the AAC. Hopefully, May is on the phone w/ the AD's at VCU and DU trying to get a feel for what they're thinking if they're offered an opening. I'd be making the pitch to get us included. Granted, our hoops cred has taken a big hit over the last 3 years, but it's not like we'd be selling a totally washed up product to these guys. Here again I'm hoping May is being proactive and at least has put it out there that while we hit a bump in the road, we have had some recent success and are working hard to get back on track. I like this option the best as it would bring teams into Chaifetz that we have a history with. Hell, getting the UConn women into the Fetz once a year makes it attractive.

To my way of thinking, option 3 is the best path going forward and offers SLU the best chance at remaining a truly relevant program that plays in a relevant conference.

 

 

On 3/24/2017 at 9:15 AM, BLIKNS said:

Hadn't even considered the AAC as an option, but man you could have our rivals Dayton and VCU and then getting old rivals Cincinnati and Memphis....I would be onboard

Hello all,

To follow up on the AAC thought, here is something posted on the Wichita State board by a Cincinnati fan that I modified to include SLU.

http://shockernet.net/forum/showthread.php?22769-AAC-OR-BUST!!!&styleid=3#post713678

The addition of WSU gives the AAC 12 basketball schools (1 non-football)/12 football schools (1 football-only).

The Cincy fan advocates adding VCU/Dayton (balanced out by Army/Air Force) for 14 basketball schools (3 non-football)/14 football schools (3 football-only).

Gives basketball 7 tidy pairs:

UConn - Temple
Cincinnati - Dayton
East Carolina - VCU
Central Florida - South Florida
Memphis - Tulane
Houston - SMU
Tulsa - Wichita State

The problem is that Army does not want football conference affiliation and Air Force seems to be happy with all sports in the Mountain West.

My solution is to go with a 16 basketball schools (4 non-football)/14 football schools (2 football-only) model. Here VCU/Dayton/SLU are added as non-football schools along with Wichita State, NIU is added as a full member with football, and BYU is added as the 2nd football-only member.

Adding SLU/NIU gives the AAC the St. Louis and Chicago markets (great to have at the negotiating table for the next TV contract talks) and tightens up the geographic gap between the Ohio schools and the Plains schools (helping with travel costs). Plus NIU/BYU are much stronger football additions than Army/Air Force, so strengthening basketball also ends up strengthening football.

Gives basketball 8 tidy pairs:

UConn - Temple
Cincinnati - Dayton
East Carolina - VCU
Central Florida - South Florida
Memphis - Tulane
Houston - SMU
Tulsa - Wichita State
SLU - NIU

That's a solid multi-bid basketball conference and a solid football conference whose Champ should have the inside track on the Access Bowl bid most years.

Thoughts?

[Soderball]

8 hours ago, Westward said:

 

Hello all,

To follow up on the AAC thought, here is something posted on the Wichita State board posted by a Cincinnati fan that I modified to include SLU.

http://shockernet.net/forum/showthread.php?22769-AAC-OR-BUST!!!&styleid=3#post713678

The addition of WSU gives the AAC 12 basketball schools (1 non-football)/12 football schools (1 football-only).

The Cincy fan advocates adding VCU/Dayton (balanced out by Army/Air Force) for 14 basketball schools (3 non-football)/14 football schools (3 football-only).

Gives basketball 7 tidy pairs:

UConn - Temple
Cincinnati - Dayton
East Carolina - VCU
Central Florida - South Florida
Memphis - Tulane
Houston - SMU
Tulsa - Wichita State

The problem is that Army does not want football conference affiliation and Air Force seems to be happy with all sports in the Mountain West.

My solution is to go with a 16 basketball schools (4 non-football)/14 football schools (2 football-only) model. Here VCU/Dayton/SLU are added as non-football schools along with Wichita State, NIU is added as a full member with football, and BYU is added as the 2nd football-only member.

Adding SLU/NIU gives the AAC the St. Louis and Chicago markets (great to have at the negotiating table for the next TV contract talks) and tightens up the geographic gap between the Ohio schools and the Plains schools (helping with travel costs). Plus NIU/BYU are much stronger football additions than Army/Air Force, so strengthening basketball also ends up strengthening football.

Gives basketball 8 tidy pairs:

UConn - Temple
Cincinnati - Dayton
East Carolina - VCU
Central Florida - South Florida
Memphis - Tulane
Houston - SMU
Tulsa - Wichita State
SLU - NIU

That's a solid multi-bid basketball conference and a solid football conference whose Champ should have the inside track on the Access Bowl bid most years.

Thoughts?

Playing Cincinnati and Memphis again would be absolutely wonderful. I would take this over the A10 offering immediately.

 

If VCU/Dayton dip from the conference, we need to GO. That will be the implosion of the A10. No Dayton means absolutely 0 geographical connection, 0 possible road-game trips.

I'd love to see a team from Chicago in a conference with us, but I doubt that NIU goes anywhere. That seems like a stretch to me, on its face.

 

 

I don't think anything of this sort would happen.

[slufan13]

 

 

[Westward]

6 hours ago, Soderball said:

Playing Cincinnati and Memphis again would be absolutely wonderful. I would take this over the A10 offering immediately.

If VCU/Dayton dip from the conference, we need to GO. That will be the implosion of the A10. No Dayton means absolutely 0 geographical connection, 0 possible road-game trips.

I'd love to see a team from Chicago in a conference with us, but I doubt that NIU goes anywhere. That seems like a stretch to me, on its face.

I don't think anything of this sort would happen.

I don't know about that. NIU has been pretty open about wanting to move up as they were one of the teams that presented to the Big 12. Sure, their "dream scenario" is probably the Big 12 (like the Big East is for SLU) but it may be a situation where an intermediate step may be helpful.

I actually think that the biggest stretch in my proposal is BYU. They seem to be adamant about not returning to the Mountain West and it being "Pac-12/Big12 or Bust," but again, reality may dictate an intermediate step. They seem okay at the moment but eventually FBS Independence will catch up with them on the scheduling front and they may have to seek conference affiliation. At that point, I have to believe that the AAC would be preferred to the more obvious (and realistically better match) Mountain West due to the bad blood between BYU and the MW.

But I agree that this is not very likely to happen...now. I do think that the AAC will be in for a wake-up call when it actually opens up negotiations for its next media contract. Adding Wichita State basketball certainly strengthens the AAC's position but I don't think it will be nearly enough to command the terms it wants. At that point, the AAC will have to re-evaluate and likely reconsider the VCU/Dayton combo, at which point, SLU/NIU (St. Louis/Chicago markets) should enter the discussion. Too much is made of markets but they do have an impact and St. Louis, and especially Chicago, will be very valuable to have as part of the negotiation package.

And YES, this is much better than the A-10. St. Louis, Chicago, Memphis, Cincinnati, Dallas, Houston, New Orleans (Tulsa/Wichita, meh). REAL ARENAS. Would anyone in this league play in a glorified high school gym?

[MusicCityBilliken]

7 hours ago, Soderball said:

Playing Cincinnati and Memphis again would be absolutely wonderful. I would take this over the A10 offering immediately.

 

If VCU/Dayton dip from the conference, we need to GO. That will be the implosion of the A10. No Dayton means absolutely 0 geographical connection, 0 possible road-game trips.

I'd love to see a team from Chicago in a conference with us, but I doubt that NIU goes anywhere. That seems like a stretch to me, on its face.

 

 

I don't think anything of this sort would happen.

If VCU/UD bolt for AAC, hopefully we will be part that package also.

Be nice to bring back old rivals like Memphis & Cincy.

[WestCoastBilliken]

If VCU/UD bolt... we are in trouble. We cannot be in a UD/VCU-less league.  

[johnbj14]

https://www.fanragsports.com/news/mvc-to-hold-emergency-meeting-on-sunday-in-saint-louis/

 

MVC holding emergency meeting in STL Sunday. ADs looking to deal with WSU departure aftermath according to the article. 

[billikenfan05]

Hearing SLU has a deal in place to join the MVC as replacement for WSU 

[Westward]

31 minutes ago, johnbj14 said:

https://www.fanragsports.com/news/mvc-to-hold-emergency-meeting-on-sunday-in-saint-louis/

MVC holding emergency meeting in STL Sunday. ADs looking to deal with WSU departure aftermath according to the article. 

"Rag" is a very accurate descriptor here.

There is no such thing as a "basketball only" member, this moron "journalist" (hack blogger) means non-football full member or just non-football member.

What passes for sports "journalism" nowadays is sickening. The worst part is that it isn't just hacks like this guy, I've read some "reputable journalists" use that non-term. This is their job. This is what they've dedicated themselves to. Sad.

I'll excuse myself now, I think I see some punk kids on my lawn, gotta go rectify that.

[Littlebill]

42 minutes ago, Westward said:

"Rag" is a very accurate descriptor here.

There is no such thing as a "basketball only" member, this moron "journalist" (hack blogger) means non-football full member or just non-football member.

What passes for sports "journalism" nowadays is sickening. The worst part is that it isn't just hacks like this guy, I've read some "reputable journalists" use that non-term. This is their job. This is what they've dedicated themselves to. Sad.

I'll excuse myself now, I think I see some punk kids on my lawn, gotta go rectify that.

Rothstein is pretty reliable when it comes to cbb. You're discrediting the whole story because he used the wrong obscure term yall use?

[Westward]

13 minutes ago, Littlebill said:

...You're discrediting the whole story...

Where did I discredit the accuracy of the report?

What I did was (correctly) call out a moron for being a moron.

18 minutes ago, Littlebill said:

...he used the wrong obscure term yall use?

I've never used that non-term.

[billikenfan05]

1 hour ago, Westward said:

"Rag" is a very accurate descriptor here.

There is no such thing as a "basketball only" member, this moron "journalist" (hack blogger) means non-football full member or just non-football member.

What passes for sports "journalism" nowadays is sickening. The worst part is that it isn't just hacks like this guy, I've read some "reputable journalists" use that non-term. This is their job. This is what they've dedicated themselves to. Sad.

These are all phrases you used to discredit the writer and his article. Rothstein is solid. I don't know you from GloryDays2013