OT - St. Louis

[OkieBilliken]

So the city's murder rate was 52.9 per 100K in 2024, massively beating even urban disasters of Memphis and Baltimore.   I understand that most of the region's taxpayers live in the surrounding counties but this has to be fixed.   The city I currently live in used to be featured annually in this list but spent a ton of money on policing and civic outreach and it worked.  They have a much higher tax base to draw from so its easier to do.   As a parent would you be less likely to send your kid to SLU after looking at these stats?   

[Taj79]

I'd love to see a chart of where these murders are occurring in St. Louis.  I always saw SLU as an island in the storm, recognizing that bad things can happen anywhere.  I lived in suburban Baltimore for 26 years.  Baltimore city was the civic shooting range.  The suburbs were fine.  Even as we left, the touristy Inner Harbor was seeing crime migrate to it. The Johns Hopkins neighborhood was considered dangerous.  I lived in DC, and the adage there was stay out of any of the Easts ---- Northeast, Southeast.  You better train your kids to be vigilant and observant no matter where they are.  

So no, I'd likely be fine with St. Louis all the same.

[ACE]

50 minutes ago, OkieBilliken said:

So the city's murder rate was 52.9 per 100K in 2024, massively beating even urban disasters of Memphis and Baltimore.   I understand that most of the region's taxpayers live in the surrounding counties but this has to be fixed.   The city I currently live in used to be featured annually in this list but spent a ton of money on policing and civic outreach and it worked.  They have a much higher tax base to draw from so its easier to do.   As a parent would you be less likely to send your kid to SLU after looking at these stats?   

Buy a clue

https://fox2now.com/news/missouri/why-so-many-rankings-are-wrong-about-st-louis-crime/

 

[wgstl]

53 minutes ago, OkieBilliken said:

So the city's murder rate was 52.9 per 100K in 2024, massively beating even urban disasters of Memphis and Baltimore.   I understand that most of the region's taxpayers live in the surrounding counties but this has to be fixed.   The city I currently live in used to be featured annually in this list but spent a ton of money on policing and civic outreach and it worked.  They have a much higher tax base to draw from so its easier to do.   As a parent would you be less likely to send your kid to SLU after looking at these stats?   

No because the large % of crime isn’t around SLU. 
 

if St. Louis dropped the imaginary boarder that most major cities do not have, we instantly drop out of the top 10 most dangerous cities. 

[Old guy]

I interviewed at John Hopkins Medical School during my senior year of college. This was 1967. At  that time, the Johns Hopkins Medical area had tall chain link fences with barbed wire, lots of security and there was a rule that to go to the parking areas after hours you had to get an armed security escort. Not for me, thank you, I went to Georgetown Medical School instead. I am not saying that DC was safe either, but no big city is really safe.

[OkieBilliken]

22 minutes ago, ACE said:

Buy a clue

https://fox2now.com/news/missouri/why-so-many-rankings-are-wrong-about-st-louis-crime/

 

Even by TOTAL MURDERS, St Louis, with its miniscule population, ranked 12th in the country, ahead of cities with a lot more people like Atlanta and Phoenix.  But if you are telling me that everything is fine...cool, nothing to worry about.    

[Lord Elrond]

The only time a SLU athletic event was interrupted by gunfire this past year, it was an away game in Philadelphia…

[Old guy]

2 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

The only time a SLU athletic event was interrupted by gunfire this past year, it was an away game in Philadelphia…

However, in the not too distant past, someone watching a Cardinals baseball game at the ball park was hit by a spent bullet and required medical care.

[Billikenbooster]

But then there WAS the fight in the stands at Chaifetz this year

[ACE]

43 minutes ago, OkieBilliken said:

Even by TOTAL MURDERS, St Louis, with its miniscule population, ranked 12th in the country, ahead of cities with a lot more people like Atlanta and Phoenix.  But if you are telling me that everything is fine...cool, nothing to worry about.    

Never said "everything is fine" just pointing out that your original post was misleading. Nice to see you are now moving the goalposts after being called on it.

 

[OkieBilliken]

2 minutes ago, ACE said:

Never said "everything is fine" just pointing out that your original post was misleading. Nice to see you are now moving the goalposts after being called on it.

 

I asked a legit question whether the city's homicide rate may impact SLU enrollment.  You responded with "buy a clue"  which I logically took as you saying it was an exaggerated problem and that I was making a dumb inquiry.  By total amount and per capita IMHO the numbers are horrific.  Not moving a goalpost at all.    Thats it.   We can agree to disagree.   I'm done.  

[cgeldmacher]

1 hour ago, OkieBilliken said:

Even by TOTAL MURDERS, St Louis, with its miniscule population, ranked 12th in the country, ahead of cities with a lot more people like Atlanta and Phoenix.  But if you are telling me that everything is fine...cool, nothing to worry about.    

The point is that if you dropped something the same size and roughly the same population as the City of St. Louis into a particular part of Chicago, that area of Chicago's crime rate would be much worse.  If you took something the size of the City of Chicago by land size and put it on St. Louis, it would include the City of St. Louis, but also areas like Webster Groves, Ladue, Frontenac, Creve Coeur, etc. and then St. Louis's crime numbers would go way, way down.  It it the unique situation that most of our high crime areas are concentrated in one political subdivision that results in St. Louis being at the top of these lists.

[courtside]

24 minutes ago, OkieBilliken said:

Even by TOTAL MURDERS, St Louis, with its miniscule population, ranked 12th in the country, ahead of cities with a lot more people like Atlanta and Phoenix.  But if you are telling me that everything is fine...cool, nothing to worry about.    

Let me try to help. Respectfully, you aren’t comparing apples to apples. 

You probably noticed the discussion in Jacksonville about the reduction in homicides, violent crime etc….and that’s great. 

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/crime/2024/07/02/jacksonville-is-on-pace-for-fewer-than-100-homicides-in-over-a-decade/74012408007/

………………

This is the Jacksonville Sheriff's office transparency page which were used in the stats:

https://transparency.jaxsheriff.org

Notice how the crime statistics include all of Duval County, which includes geographies roughly 20-30 miles out in all directions. 

(Now go 20-30 miles in all directions from St. Louis, and include them in the overall crime stats. The numbers would change.)
………………

As the above attached article states, murders were down 26% nationwide. This includes St. Louis.

St. Louis City saw its fewest homicides since 2013. Violent crime, property crime, “crimes against society” all were down, some double digit percentages. 

SLMPD said it has had a clearance rate of 75%. and 66% the past two years, well above the national average of 52.3%. 

…………….

In your first post you referenced where Jacksonville used to be ranked before the turnaround. 7th in 2023 in homicide rates. St. Louis, despite the big boundaries disadvantage in collecting the stats, was 23rd, which was still better than almost half of A10 school locations. 
………………

[cgeldmacher]

4 minutes ago, OkieBilliken said:

I asked a legit question whether the city's homicide rate may impact SLU enrollment.  You responded with "buy a clue"  which I logically took as you saying it was an exaggerated problem and that I was making a dumb inquiry.  By total amount and per capita IMHO the numbers are horrific.  Not moving a goalpost at all.    Thats it.   We can agree to disagree.   I'm done.  

SLU has had record enrollment for several years.  It has grown each of the past five years.  Fall 2024 enrollment was 15,334.  That's up from 12,914 ten years ago.  The area around SLU is beautiful and one of the bright spots in the City of St. Louis giving people hope that St. Louis in general can see the same turnaround as the neighborhoods around SLU have.

[OkieBilliken]

1 minute ago, cgeldmacher said:

SLU has had record enrollment for several years.  It has grown each of the past five years.  Fall 2024 enrollment was 15,334.  That's up from 12,914 ten years ago.  The area around SLU is beautiful and one of the bright spots in the City of St. Louis giving people hope that St. Louis in general can see the same turnaround as the neighborhoods around SLU have.

Thanks for the info!  I love to read this.    

[cgeldmacher]

1 minute ago, OkieBilliken said:

Thanks for the info!  I love to read this.    

Have you been on campus recently?  My daughter is a freshman at SLU, and I am astounded how the kids there have a different experience than I did when I attended.  When I was there, you didn't stray anywhere off campus.  Now, my daughter and her friends regularly hang out at the Foundry, an entertainment district just south of Forest Park Parkway.  There's an Ikea, a brand new Target, a Top Golf, a Putt Shack all near campus.

[OkieBilliken]

5 minutes ago, courtside said:

Let me try to help. Respectfully, you aren’t comparing apples to apples. 

You probably noticed the discussion in Jacksonville about the reduction in homicides, violent crime etc….and that’s great. 

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/crime/2024/07/02/jacksonville-is-on-pace-for-fewer-than-100-homicides-in-over-a-decade/74012408007/

………………

This is the Jacksonville Sheriff's office transparency page which were used in the stats:

https://transparency.jaxsheriff.org

Notice how the crime statistics include all of Duval County, which includes geographies roughly 20-30 miles out in all directions. 

(Now go 20-30 miles in all directions from St. Louis, and include them in the overall crime stats. The numbers would change.)
………………

As the above attached article states, murders were down 26% nationwide. This includes St. Louis.

St. Louis City saw its fewest homicides since 2013. Violent crime, property crime, “crimes against society” all were down, some double digit percentages. 

SLMPD said it has had a clearance rate of 75%. and 66% the past two years, well above the national average of 52.3%. 

…………….

In your first post you referenced where Jacksonville used to be ranked before the turnaround. 7th in 2023 in homicide rates. St. Louis, despite the big boundaries disadvantage in collecting the stats, was 23rd, which was still better than almost half of A10 school locations. 
………………

Good info.    Jacksonville is like St. Louis City and County were combined.    Dont want to get into politics but If things are clearly getting better, any opinion why the State is forcefully taking over the city police department?   This and the newly released homicide rates prompted my original post.  

[OkieBilliken]

1 minute ago, cgeldmacher said:

Have you been on campus recently?  My daughter is a freshman at SLU, and I am astounded how the kids there have a different experience than I did when I attended.  When I was there, you didn't stray anywhere off campus.  Now, my daughter and her friends regularly hang out at the Foundry, an entertainment district just south of Forest Park Parkway.  There's an Ikea, a brand new Target, a Top Golf, a Putt Shack all near campus.

Yes I was in town for the Bronze Boot weekend.  I posted how great the campus looked.   

[SluSignGuy]

I recognize this thread is about St. Louis and somewhat SLU.  But I am closing the thread, as this site has a mixed history of discussion politics.  One where I have made mistakes about not being more proactive, detrimental to the community.