Mid-Season Re-Eval from a couch in Maryland ....

[Taj79]

The OOC is said and done.  This is a natural interlude to stop and pop some new trends and evaluations on this team .... new projections, revised projections, whatever you care to call it.  And  I'll call it one thing ----pitifully bad.  Whomever said these losses should be pinned on to Crews' final record is absolutely right.  This team is all on Crewsplatt and having said it, I'm leaving it at that.  Once again, the ability to evaluate and recruit talent remains the shattered cornerstone of this current roster.  The easiest projection going forward is Jim Crews will NEVER have a head coaching job again.  Take that to the bank for what it's worth.  Captain Obvious.

The roster is deplete of any real talent and the best we can hope for even for next year are guys like Welmer, Johnson and Moore hang around to provide some depth.  The same can be said for Roby and even Bishop but recognizing these are Crews' guys places the period on the end of many of their sentences.  I think the Graves signing states very plain and clear that Bishop has been recruited over and his time will be cut considerably next year.  The bigger stiffs are unsalvageable right now; they've proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Aaron Hines is an out-of-control mess.  Last night he was "credited" with six turnovers but bad decisions and bad shots were likely not included in the tallies.  And 12 points were in the first half  (including a prayer three at the buzzer) so he disappeared in the second for sure.  So almost half our total turnovers came from the guy supposed to protect the ball.  Reggie is back to Reggie ---- increased competition will mean no more double-doubles this year.  Hassan Martin wasn't even out there last night but Iverson and Langevine were enough to counter anything worthwhile from Reggie.  Reggie is nothing more than a copy of Cory Remekun and I don't recall us leaning on Cory much or getting game-saving play from him.  Expecting such from Reggie is not fair.  Mike Crawford appears done.  His highlight note on TV last night was "going to work in St. Louis law firm" at end of season.  Good for Mike.  Good kid but no program carrier.  Crawford's role was that of Jake Barnett or Kyle Cassity as seniors; supporting role but  not the main player.  Roby was 1-for-8 with all blanks on his three triples.  If I'm defended by "the Litigator" just walk me up to the gallows.  Gillmann and Neufeld are just too stiff and mechanical.  Ain't gonna happen.  I might keep one for practice fodder next year.

Welmer is a stretch four.... he will never be a banger.  Johnson makes a point or two each game but then disappears and,even worse, seems to get lost.  Moore went 1-for-7 and zip on his two threes.  But like I said, you need depth and bodies.    I doubt any of these guys even gets a sniff for a scholarship with the current staff.  But that is what we are.  Again, thank you notes to you-know-who.

I had 11 wins starting this out, actually praying for a match for the last two seasons.  That was foolhardy.  I think I can say I am in the majority now of projecting five ----- yes 5 ----- total wins.  One left against NC A&T.  The fact that Duquesne went into Rose Hill and beat a somewhat decent Fordham team last night coupled with the fact they seem to own us makes a home win there doubtful.  La Salle challenged Dayton some in Dayton last night.  Not good there.  Plus we have no talent to match up with Jordan Price.  Their new transfer Pookie Powell went off for 23 and 7 last night against Dayton as well.  And I watched Mason give VCU a good battle in Fairfax.  They still have Livingstone, Jenkins and Moore and play a four-guard lineup that will challenge Welmer and Johnson from a defensive standpoint.  Maybe, maybe we can surprise Umass at home.  St. Joe's may have lost leading scorer Shavar Newkirk for some time last night with an injury.  Maybe there.  The Wiz can give us the spreads on those.  

Yes, Happy New Year to all because the best thing about the turn of the calendar is we are at least closer to ending this nightmare by being in the right calendar year.  

[cheeseman]

Well Johnson was recruited and signed by this current staff.  Over all I can not disagree with your post.  Let me just remind people that we knew this was going to be a tough year - maybe not as tough as it has turned out but as they say in fishing, you have to have the bad days to appreciate the good ones.  Lets just play the schedule out and stay ready for next year's turn around.

[Cowboy]

-Taj, Cory Remeken might not have been Bill Russell but to have his name with Reggie seems very unfair

-if by "recruited over" you mean a better player at the same position is signed for next season then yeah, do that all the time, if you mean a promise of some sort was made it wasn't by the current staff

-we will be much better next season, keep the faith all

[MusicCityBilliken]

TAJ I agree with most everything you say. Only Cory was better then Reggie, Remember that game at LaSalle you and I attended. I recall talking with Cory after the game and complementing him. Thing with Cory, each year he improved, I don't think Reggie improved one iota. Also, beating up on Hines is kind of unfair. He's a walk-on. The fact that he's on the court getting as much playing time as he does tells you something.

Can't wait till this season is over.

[RiseAndGrind]

My eval:

there are two players who will see playing time next year - Moore and Johnson.

this team is awful and I can't believe I had even a second of doubt about Ty Graves. 

[slufanskip]

Elliot Welmer will see time and I'd be surprised if it isn't 20 +/- minutes a game. We don't have a player coming in that matches his skill set. In addition he's averaging 7.8 / 4.8 . 1.3 (blocks) in 24 minutes a game which isn't bad for a freshman. I don't care how old he is, it's his first taste of this level of competition and I'd bet he continues to improve. For all the talk about how bad he rebounds almost 5 a game for the minutes and a freshman isn't terrible.

[bauman]

47 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said:

My eval:

there are two players who will see playing time next year - Moore and Johnson.

this team is awful and I can't believe I had even a second of doubt about Ty Graves. 

Moore better shoot better than he is now.  I thought he was supposed to be a stud shooter.  So far I haven't seen it.

[CoachK]

12 minutes ago, bauman said:

Moore better shoot better than he is now.  I thought he was supposed to be a stud shooter.  So far I haven't seen it.

Moore is only a freshman. Isnt Crawford a shooter?? I have not seen that yet. Let's be honest as fans we want to see greatness from our players but to ask the freshman to be great is not realistic. We need to be fair. In my opinion Zeke Moore has done a wonderful job for the Billikens. He only have 9 turnovers for the year. He is turning out to be quite a defender. I believes, as Zeke gets stronger and older he will help. Johnson who you guys have not be critical of is in the same boat. Give them a chance to grow!

[cheeseman]

From what I have seen of Moore he can shoot - the problem is he seems to need to get into the flow and that requires playing time that is not token or sporadic.  He is a freshman and he does handle the ball pretty decently.  He will be fine as he has time to improve.  The problem all the players who are here now will have is finding a way to work their way in the playing rotation next year.  Welmer, Moore, Johnson and Bishop will have to improve to see the court.

[billiken_roy]

Skip not sure what continues to impress/intrigue you about Welmer to consider taking minutes from our incoming far superior transfers and recruits.    If Welmer was all that you have to ask "why isn't he currently playing 35+ mpg now?"  when you think about the remaining existing talent he currently competes with for floor time.   

Ford wants to play uptempo and will likely play the two PF's, french and Foreman in the lane and let the other incoming guards split the lion's share of the guard work in a golden state like manner where there isn't a dominant in charge point guard.  At least that seems to be the way the talent lines up in my vision.

The remnants of this current roster will get a couple of minutes at a time per half to give our better players a rest.    I envision those that will average less than 8 minutes a game to be Moore, Welmer, Johnson, and bishop if he sticks around.    The rest are practice fodder at best.   

We probably have another year to wait till we have the roster to think about top of conference and post season.   But at least with 6 legit players we can get over 500 and actually have a chance to compete.  Crewsplatt is the worst thing that ever happened to Billiken basketball.

[cheeseman]

1 minute ago, billiken_roy said:

Skip not sure what continues to impress/intrigue you about Welmer to consider taking minutes from our incoming far superior transfers and recruits.    If Welmer was all that you have to ask "why isn't he currently playing 35+ mpg now?"  when you think about the remaining existing talent he currently competes with for floor time.   

Ford wants to play uptempo and will likely play the two PF's, french and Foreman in the lane and let the other incoming guards split the lion's share of the guard work in a golden state like manner where there isn't a dominant in charge point guard.  At least that seems to be the way the talent lines up in my vision.

The remnants of this current roster will get a couple of minutes at a time per half to give our better players a rest.    I envision those that will average less than 8 minutes a game to be Moore, Welmer, Johnson, and bishop if he sticks around.    The rest are practice fodder at best.   

We probably have another year to wait till we have the roster to think about top of conference and post season.   But at least with 6 legit players we can get over 500 and actually have a chance to compete.  Crewsplatt is the worst thing that ever happened to Billiken basketball.

Wait - worse than Ekker - I can not believe you have moved Crews ahead of Ekker.  You have always demonized Ekker pretty good.  I do agree either one was bad.

[bonwich]

3 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Wait - worse than Ekker - I can not believe you have moved Crews ahead of Ekker.  You have always demonized Ekker pretty good.  I do agree either one was bad.

And as I've noted before, Ekker can't be separated from Albright-spelled-Albrecht and Coleman. I guess we could call that era Two Rons and a Randy, but that leaves out Albrecht.  

[slufanskip]

19 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

Skip not sure what continues to impress/intrigue you about Welmer to consider taking minutes from our incoming far superior transfers and recruits.    If Welmer was all that you have to ask "why isn't he currently playing 35+ mpg now?"  when you think about the remaining existing talent he currently competes with for floor time.   

Ford wants to play uptempo and will likely play the two PF's, french and Foreman in the lane and let the other incoming guards split the lion's share of the guard work in a golden state like manner where there isn't a dominant in charge point guard.  At least that seems to be the way the talent lines up in my vision.

The remnants of this current roster will get a couple of minutes at a time per half to give our better players a rest.    I envision those that will average less than 8 minutes a game to be Moore, Welmer, Johnson, and bishop if he sticks around.    The rest are practice fodder at best.   

We probably have another year to wait till we have the roster to think about top of conference and post season.   But at least with 6 legit players we can get over 500 and actually have a chance to compete.  Crewsplatt is the worst thing that ever happened to Billiken basketball.

So how deep do you think we'll go next year? 8? Who are the 8? The 3 transfers, French and Goodwin and then Graves mid season. I can't imagine you can't see some minutes for Welmer. He also shoots 38% from 3. If I look at Johnson, Moore, and Welmer ... I see the brightest future from Welmer. Especially considering we don't have anyone else who matches his size and skill set.

[Zink]

I think the rotation for next year is shaping up in a clear fashion, as many others have noted. We'll have the Ford Five (Goodwin, Henriquez, Bess, French, Foreman), then minutes at the point for Bishop, at the 2/3 for Moore and Roby, at the 4 for Johnson, and 4/5 for Welmer. I could honestly see Welmer starting though, just because he adds another dimension on the offensive end. 

Gillmann won't play, I'd guess that Neufeld leaves, and then we see Graves take minutes from Bishop/Roby/Moore once conference play starts. 

[billiken_roy]

Cheese, yes, this has surpassed ekkertime.   This is the worst billiken team in my Fandom (since my freshman year 1977).    Ekkertime at least we had burns and Henderson to watch.  There is nothing to look forward to this year.    I truly am totally uncaring with no expectations when I go to every game.   I am more about listening to our band and fan watching than watching the billikens.   

Skip as I've been saying for weeks our depth is what will kill us next year.    We have 6 credible players likely that have yet to suit up.   Even totally exhausted they will outplay any player we currently are playing with.    I expect all 6 will play 30+ mpg and the few remaining minutes will be dispersed to our current roster to give 1-2 minute breathers.   However letting them play longer could be negative difference makers.  As I said above we likely got another year to wait before we are serious about post season.   Next year will be over 500, but with predominately a 6 player rotation I don't expect much more than that.   Can't change crewsplatt overnight

[slufanskip]

20 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

Cheese, yes, this has surpassed ekkertime.   This is the worst billiken team in my Fandom (since my freshman year 1977).    Ekkertime at least we had burns and Henderson to watch.  There is nothing to look forward to this year.    I truly am totally uncaring with no expectations when I go to every game.   I am more about listening to our band and fan watching than watching the billikens.   

Skip as I've been saying for weeks our depth is what will kill us next year.    We have 6 credible players likely that have yet to suit up.   Even totally exhausted they will outplay any player we currently are playing with.    I expect all 6 will play 30+ mpg and the few remaining minutes will be dispersed to our current roster to give 1-2 minute breathers.   However letting them play longer could be negative difference makers.  As I said above we likely got another year to wait before we are serious about post season.   Next year will be over 500, but with predominately a 6 player rotation I don't expect much more than that.   Can't change crewsplatt overnight

The best 6 players are better than the rest on every team. I'm not saying Welmer will be even in the top 6, however I don't believe those 6 will get the minutes you think they will and I believe Welmer is better than you obviously believe he is. I also assume he will continue to improve and be a solid role player on a good team.

[Taj79]

Let me augment ----- for certain I see Johnson, Moore and Welmer as true "keepers."  But that is it.  Roby could have a place and maybe as a senior he is content to just shed the losing.  Nothing more than a defensive specialist and "breather" as roy describes.  Welmer intrigues me as a stretch 4 who might be better served with less minutes.  Yes he is a freshman so a negative on experience but he will be 22 so he is older and more mature which is a positive I think..  Also, since he used his fifth year to complete four, if he transfers, he loses the year as well, correct?  Yes, Johnson is a Ford recruit so he stays no matter.  Plus he is only a year removed from his injury.  The kid shows just as much moxie as he does cluelessness.  Moore needs more time on the court?  Okay, I can agree with that and maybe it happens but the pedigree is the pedigree.  In Hines' defense,I thought the offense ran better without Bishop in there until last night.  But the defense on Hines and then on his teammates gave him no recourse last night.  Much like the QB with too much credit and too much blame, there goes the basketball point guard.  Even with the defections of Bartley and Reynolds, we lost no real point guards from last year.  Again, nice foundation.

I know Ford does not want to play with what he is stuck with.  His style is an antithesis to the talent out there.  And his expressed frustration makes me think of the saying the "floggings will continue until morale improves."  Guys may be giving it all they got ---- and that is it.  Yes, we knew this was coming.  

Yes, tarheel, we watched and enjoyed Remekun that one night.  That might have been his only night of note.  And it was on the road and in conference.  My argument would then be Reggie has done less ----- with more time.  And his best is against the SIUE's of the world.  But Cory performed erratically and in spurts as a minor relief pitcher.  Expecting a limited player to do more is also just not fair.  They are all good kids, just not talented enough for consistent basketball at this level.

Ford's greatest accomplishment right now might be guiding this shipwreck into dry dock in March.  I don't think we will lose any of our commitments.  This season is no reflection on Ford.  

[billiken_roy]

Skip,  if the 6 newbies don't see the major minutes I envision and ANY of our existing players play major minutes (say over 15 mpg) it will cost us W's.   I don't project to know what ford will do rotation wise.   I am only stating what I feel has to happen if our cards to play are the 6 newbies and the current roster.   The less ANY of them are used the better.

[kshoe]

I feel pretty certain we won't just have 6 new players come next season. I'd expect another freshman, a 5th yr senior or even a true juco to join the mix. At that point we need only 1 or 2 of the current group to be a part of the 8 or 9 man rotation.

Remember, next season doesn't start tomorrow, it starts 9 months from now. Ford will get it done.

[slufanskip]

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

Skip,  if the 6 newbies don't see the major minutes I envision and ANY of our existing players play major minutes (say over 15 mpg) it will cost us W's.   I don't project to know what ford will do rotation wise.   I am only stating what I feel has to happen if our cards to play are the 6 newbies and the current roster.   The less ANY of them are used the better.

I understand, I just disagree regarding Welmer. Only time will tell who is correct. Not only that we aren't that far off ... as I said 20 minutes +/-. 

[slufanskip]

24 minutes ago, kshoe said:

I feel pretty certain we won't just have 6 new players come next season. I'd expect another freshman, a 5th yr senior or even a true juco to join the mix. At that point we need only 1 or 2 of the current group to be a part of the 8 or 9 man rotation.

Remember, next season doesn't start tomorrow, it starts 9 months from now. Ford will get it done.

I believe he will also. I just believe Welmer will continue to improve and earn 20 or so minutes per game unless we bring in another stretch type 4 who is just better.

[Glorydays2013]

I don't think Nuefield took the floor against RI. Do you think he will start benching players he doesn't want next year and hope they take the hint?

[willie]

He played a couple on minutes. 

[Old guy]

This is my mid term evaluation, not as accurate as Taj's because I do not know as much about basketball as many of you do.

We started the year with 9 players. Out of these at the end of OOC we have 3 players that are for all extents and purposes out of commission: Bishop with his UNNA boot and questionable return to play, and Gillmann + Neufeld which have not been able to contribute in the few minutes they have played. Of the remaining 6 players Crawford can run but cannot play at the same level he used to in prior years and has trouble scoring. We have Reggie that can rebound but really has not been scoring consistently either. We have 4 scholarship players remaining, 3 of these are Freshmen, one a Junior. 4 players, mostly Freshmen, do not make a team that can play decent basketball. We have, of course, Hines who is acting PG covering for Bishop. We are really not fielding a viable D1 team, and will not be doing so for the remainder of the season.

The best that this season can provide to anyone in the team is lots of experience against stronger teams (that is everyone out there) for the Freshmen, and for Roby.  As fans, we have to admit the truth of the situation we are in and try to provide some degree of support to the kids that are trying, against all odds, to play basketball in this team. I hope Roby, Welmer, Moore, and Johnson gain something of value out of this season. I hope Bishop's foot heals fully, and I hope not to see Gillmann or Neufeld in actual play any longer after this season is over.

[slu72]

I support Old Guy's thoughts wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, I don't think the local fan base will much longer, at least for this season. C'mon, everyone loves a winner and stays away from a loser. As so many have stated this is the worst Billiken hoops they've seen ever. No blame should rest w/ Ford. This team just has a serious case of LOFT. No reason to dissect or analyze any of the players. It's already been discussed too many times.

Accept it for what it is, because it can't be changed. I know all of us feel like we've been dumped into the Twilight Zone after the success and hope Rickma and his boys brought to SLU, and we should. No program should have gone this far south in such a short period of time following 3 years of the best teams we've ever rooted for. Like we say, it's hard being a Billiken Fan. Happy New Year, y'all.