Marcus Bartley transferring

[cgeldmacher]

When I was going to SLU, I was a homer.  I used to give friends that went to lesser schools (USML, Maryville, etc.) trouble about going to a school that was perceived as weaker academically.  A friend of mine that went to Wash U. did the same thing to me.

Now that I have been out in the working world for awhile, I realize that it really doesn't make any difference.  Maybe it helps with your first job.  Maybe it gets you a leg up with an interviewer who happens to have gone to SLU, but my experience has been that once you graduate, the school you went to doesn't matter all that much to people doing the hiring.   They're much more concerned with your work experience.

[Old guy]

Cgeldmacher, this is my experience as well. I used to think that the school (s) a person attended provided a good deal of influence upon your career. In my experience this is not so. A school (college/grad school) does get you ready for working and it does (it really does) open some doors for your first employment, after that, it is you who has to do the running. In other words the school gets you to the starting line, you do the running and win or lose on your own, no more should be expected from a school. 

[3star_recruit]

Depends on how far up the power structure you are.  For example, the vast majority of executives at Goldman Sachs come from Ivy League schools and public ivys.

[hsmith19]

"Public ivies" is one of my all time favorite oxymorons. How many different schools claim to be on that list now? I know Illinois, Iowa, and Indiana all do, and I am not at all convinced going one of those places gives you a better shot at landing a spot on the Supreme Court or as an officer at a Fortune 50 company than SLU or SIU or anywhere else. Unless you're gunning for something like that, I tend to think the alumni network thing is where most of the difference lies.

[MusicCityBilliken]

17 minutes ago, hsmith19 said:

"Public ivies" is one of my all time favorite oxymorons. How many different schools claim to be on that list now? I know Illinois, Iowa, and Indiana all do, and I am not at all convinced going one of those places gives you a better shot at landing a spot on the Supreme Court or as an officer at a Fortune 50 company than SLU or SIU or anywhere else. Unless you're gunning for something like that, I tend to think the alumni network thing is where most of the difference lies.

Some years ago I had this conversation with a guy, who was originally from No Dakota, that I worked with. He sent his daughter to Wash U and she was an art major. He moaned about all the money he would saved if he only sent her to major in art at No Dakota State. I laughed, while at Wash U she met and married a international banking major and they now live in a apartment overlooking Lake Geneva in Switzerland, which he visits frequently. If she went to No Dakota State she probably now be only making $30,000/y working as a art teacher at some middle school in some middle of nowhere town, North Dakota. Also married to some red neck dude working in a fracking field. These mid west ivies do have some advantages other then academic.   

[hsmith19]

13 minutes ago, tarheelbilliken said:

Some years ago I had this conversation with a guy, who was originally from No Dakota, that I worked with. He sent his daughter to Wash U and she was an art major. He moaned about all the money he would saved if he only sent her to major in art at No Dakota State. I laughed, while at Wash U she met and married a international banking major and they now live in a apartment overlooking Lake Geneva in Switzerland, which he visits frequently. If she went to No Dakota State she probably now be only making $30,000/y working as a art teacher at some middle school in some middle of nowhere town, North Dakota. Also married to some red neck dude working in a fracking field. These mid west ivies do have some advantages other then academic.   

Wash U likes to bill itself as the "Harvard of the Midwest," but it can't be a public ivy since it's not public. I can understand comparing other high ranked private schools like Wash U or Rice (I think they still call themselves "Harvard of the South") to the Ivy League. But in my experience, the public ivy term gets used so broadly it has very little meaning. Maybe U of Illinois is a better school than North Dakota. I really have no idea what kind of school North Dakota is. But judging from the people I know from UI I am not at all convinced having that on your resume is comparable to having Wash U on your resume, let alone similar to Harvard or Yale.

[3star_recruit]

Check out the board of directors of a big investment firm, law firm or oil company and you'll get a clear picture of who the public Iveys are.

[hsmith19]

My point is there is no agreed upon list of public ivies, and lots of public schools like claiming the title for themselves. That makes it pretty hard to check out how many hot shot business types really belong on the list. I've even had Truman State grads try to convince me it is a public ivy. Something about liberal arts focus and how it compares to Mizzou.

[JMM28]

The CEO of Caterpillar went to Millikin. He doesn't even have a masters in anything.

I think there are fields where having a degree from certain programs is helpful. For things like communications and business, I don't see much benefit from one top 150 school to the next. 

[Old guy]

1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

Depends on how far up the power structure you are.  For example, the vast majority of executives at Goldman Sachs come from Ivy League schools and public ivys.

That is true in a way. It is true that a lot of the GS hires come from Ivy's, it is not true in the sense that once you are inside GS, your future is not assured and is determined by what you do and how your bosses appreciate it, not upon what Ivy you went to. Public Ivy's are whatever you want to define them as. However, it must be said that there are a lot of schools, not in the IVY league, that are better endowed and boast more Nobel prizes in their faculties than many of the Ivy's do (Stamford, UT Austin, Chicago, Northwestern, UVA, possibly UNC, UC Berkeley, Cal Tech, MIT, etc...)

[Cowboy]

 

-is membership in AAU a fairly accepted barometer of academic quality? that is Association American of Universities not the summer hoops league

 

[Old guy]

I am not sure if it is genrally accepted as barometer of academic quality or not. However membership is by invitation only, only 62 members, so it is highly restricted. The goals of the organization are to foster partnerships between government and other big money sources of research funding and the member universities. This sounds like a very desirable organization to be in from the point of view of the universities, regardless of what public opinion may be of their membership. You could make a correlation between research conducted in Universities and academic quality, but I am not sure they can be taken to be the same thing.

[kmbilliken]

Some degrees continue to open doors. I knew a lady with a Harvard MBA. She usually couldn't hold a job for over six months, one year tops. She would get pissed, quit and always ends up with another good job. Always at least 150k to start(that was 20 years ago) and sometimes with a signing bonus. She had a terrible work record, bouncing from job to job, but her degree always opened doors and got her jobs. 

[Old guy]

Oh, I do not know about that kmbilliken, maybe the lady interviewed really well and had lots of connections. That may do more than a degree.

[slufan13]

What the hell are we talking about?

[Quality Is Job 1]

2 hours ago, slufan13 said:

What the hell are we talking about?

You mean you don't know almost every thread here gets derailed or off topic?

[Clock_Tower]

Marcus Bartley is making the best choice for Marcus Bartley and believe we need to thank him for his 2 years of service and now wish him the best.  Yes, we would like him to play for us this year so that this year is not quite as horrible.  With yet another player gone, it will get ugly.  

The Bartley we saw under Crews will not truly be missed.  With proper coaching, motivation and confidence, though, Bartley can make contributions on a high/higher level D1 team. And I do believe that Ford would develop Bartley this year far better than Crewsplatt did.  Another year of development/growth/strength will do Bartley good.  Same with a fresh start.

And this is not just about Bartley sitting the bench his Senior year as it is Bartley playing on a truly bad team his Junior year as well.  And not only will Barley have this year of development/growth/strength but as mentioned previously, he will have another year of college life/academics while having the potential to have a good and meaningful years on the court for both his Junior and Senior years.

Good luck!!

[Band Legend]

Let's get back to school talk!  I think it's all about value and not starting your working life with hundreds of thousands in debt.  Both of my daughters are going to Truman because they have full rides and will leave college with zero debt.  From there they can make their own way.  As much as I would have loved for them to go to SLU, it just didn't make cost sense.

[hsmith19]

3 hours ago, Band Legend said:

Let's get back to school talk!  I think it's all about value and not starting your working life with hundreds of thousands in debt.  Both of my daughters are going to Truman because they have full rides and will leave college with zero debt.  From there they can make their own way.  As much as I would have loved for them to go to SLU, it just didn't make cost sense.

I spent my first two years at community college for that reason. At least back in the day, the Missouri Bright Flight scholarship by itself was enough to pay for tuition and textbooks and have a little left over each semester. Then a lot of the local universities offered transfer scholarships if you came in with an associate's degree and good grades. That made the debt from grad school a little less painful.

As for Bartley, it's going to be pretty frustrating if Hinson makes him into a more well-rounded player next year. The shooting tool by itself would have been useful here.

[Old guy]

In reality there are pluses and minuses to every educational choice that can be made, worse of all is that the consequences of these choices (like student debt and degrees for which there is no demand in the marketplace) are oftentimes not clear until after the education is over and done. Kids certainly do not understand these issues, parents do not understand their non financial needs. It is a messy problem.

Back to Bartley, I hope he does well at Carbondale, and I kind of hope Hines gets a chance to get a second year playing under a scholarship. 

[bonwich]

2 minutes ago, Old guy said:

In reality there are pluses and minuses to every educational choice that can be made, worse of all is that the consequences of these choices (like student debt and degrees for which there is no demand in the marketplace) are oftentimes not clear until after the education is over and done.  

I'll push back on the degrees (majors) thing. My kid has a degree in studio art from a really good liberal arts school. She's now working in development (fundraising) for an environmental law center, a job she really loves. The former development person there had a degree in nonprofit management or something like it and did a sucky job.

One of the most successful people I know, a middle-class kid from South County, got a SLU degree in English and rose really high at SWBT/AT&T. 

I'm an advocate of broad liberal arts education. Virtually all of my kids at WashU are sharp as tacks and I've tracked many of them after they graduate. I very rarely get kids majoring in "high demand" stuff like engineering and finance. Now, granted, many of them also probably benefit from their Ivy-like League connections, plus many of them were born on third base. But lots have also succeeded with Women's and Gender Studies, anthropology and underwater basketweaving majors. 

[almaman]

1 hour ago, bonwich said:

I'll push back on the degrees (majors) thing. My kid has a degree in studio art from a really good liberal arts school. She's now working in development (fundraising) for an environmental law center, a job she really loves. The former development person there had a degree in nonprofit management or something like it and did a sucky job.

One of the most successful people I know, a middle-class kid from South County, got a SLU degree in English and rose really high at SWBT/AT&T. 

I'm an advocate of broad liberal arts education. Virtually all of my kids at WashU are sharp as tacks and I've tracked many of them after they graduate. I very rarely get kids majoring in "high demand" stuff like engineering and finance. Now, granted, many of them also probably benefit from their Ivy-like League connections, plus many of them were born on third base. But lots have also succeeded with Women's and Gender Studies, anthropology and underwater basketweaving majors. 

initials JS?

[Old guy]

1 hour ago, bonwich said:

I'll push back on the degrees (majors) thing. My kid has a degree in studio art from a really good liberal arts school. She's now working in development (fundraising) for an environmental law center, a job she really loves. The former development person there had a degree in nonprofit management or something like it and did a sucky job.

One of the most successful people I know, a middle-class kid from South County, got a SLU degree in English and rose really high at SWBT/AT&T. 

I'm an advocate of broad liberal arts education. Virtually all of my kids at WashU are sharp as tacks and I've tracked many of them after they graduate. I very rarely get kids majoring in "high demand" stuff like engineering and finance. Now, granted, many of them also probably benefit from their Ivy-like League connections, plus many of them were born on third base. But lots have also succeeded with Women's and Gender Studies, anthropology and underwater basketweaving majors. 

Well Bonwich that means that you can succeed even when your degree is in a low to no demand area, it all depends on the person, not on the degree or the school. 

[bonwich]

7 minutes ago, almaman said:

initials JS?

Which one, the AT&T person? Naw. (Don't know how old you are, but this goes back a little ways.)

[bonwich]

5 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Well Bonwich that means that you can succeed even when your degree is in a low to no demand area, it all depends on the person, not on the degree or the school. 

No dispute there. But I do bemoan the specialization and chasing a specific career path that seems to have grown in higher ed at the expense of a more broadly grounded curriculum. WhoTF knows/knew their freshman/sophomore year what they want/ed to be when they grow up? 

A certain pragmatic marketing professor not-so-gently prodded me out of my initial theatre/poli sci double major into math and economics. And of course I then spent the bulk of my career in none-of-the-above. (Although I must admit that teaching econ was a godsend to make ends meet while writing for an alternative newspaper, and I just last week greatly impressed a construction/engineering client by correctly describing a Fibonacci sequence.  )  Luckily SLU has a pretty decent liberal arts core, or at least I assume it hasn't changed drastically since I went there.

And I've frequently found that folks I've hired with screwy educational backgrounds (philosophy, Eastern European languages, and even a freshly dropped-out med student for a corporate communications position) have outperformed folks with fairly straight-line career paths.