SaintLouBlue Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 For a laugh go on to the Illini message board. They just got crushed by AL. Many fans calling for Groce's termination http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=22391&page=20 As someone that went to SLU for undergrad and U of I for grad school, it's been a rough year. I think Groce totally lost the team this year. He's got some very talented players, but they were tough to watch this year. If you think the Billiken offense is lacking...watch the Illini. They run two plays - Clear out and go 1:1 or dribble/pass around on the perimeter and jack up a contested 3. The games they win are the ones where they hit 3's. Otherwise they get blown out of the gym. What also saved them is that they play pretty solid D (outside of last night) and are (were) one of the top 2 FT shooting teams in the nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 As someone that went to SLU for undergrad and U of I for grad school, it's been a rough year. I think Groce totally lost the team this year. He's got some very talented players, but they were tough to watch this year. If you think the Billiken offense is lacking...watch the Illini. They run two plays - Clear out and go 1:1 or dribble/pass around on the perimeter and jack up a contested 3. The games they win are the ones where they hit 3's. Otherwise they get blown out of the gym. What also saved them is that they play pretty solid D (outside of last night) and are (were) one of the top 2 FT shooting teams in the nation. Great summarization of Illinois basketball the last 9 seasons...Weber inherited Self's guys, so I guess that's a summary of even a longer time period. They also were playing in the NIT and should have been a home team. The first 10 minutes of that game showed the nation that Illinois' body language and mentality was back in Champaign and not in Tuscaloosa. It's gotta be tough for a coach like Groce who really doesn't have a hold on his team to tell these guys to stay mentally sharp for a game that really means nothing. For Alabama, they had something to play for -- Anthony Grant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Illinois had a GREAT season. They beat MI$$OU. That's all I want from them every year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Get this old guy some Mexican ice cubes for his drink, he just hammered it home. I do want obvious D1 underperformers like Lancona and Jolly to be shipped out when they don't produce AT ALL, though. Another old guys thoughts, Jimbo. We all knew this year was not going to be a repeat of the previous 3 years. Most of us who have been on here for a while fully expected a sharp decline in the W's. Some thing like the early RM years as he began to build his program. We all understood the ramifications of losing our whole starting lineup of 5 very good SRs and replacing them with FR and no returning proven veterans. This season was bound to happen and the most we could hope for was that we would see steady consistent development of the players and the overall quality in how they played as a team. I think what's most disappointing to us die hard Bills fans was not in the final record, but in the lack of improvement, actually deterioration, in individual players and how they played as a team. Take MY for example, he bursts onto the scene with a great game against GW and follows up with another good outing. After that it was all pretty much downhill for him. Why? My guess is no one had any film on him so they didn't know what to expect. When they took notice they figured him out. Instead of him making an adjustment or the coaches schooling him on how to adjust, he just kept trying to do the same old stuff that earned him that rookie of the week award. Now he either didn't listen to what was being taught, or it wasn't being taught at all. I don't know. But if it was because he wasn't listening, he should have found a comfortable chair on the bench instead of starting all of our conference games except for the last one. Yes, he was sat for long periods of games and many of us wondered why our top scorer was on the bench, I guess JC and staff were trying to get the message through. It didn't work. Will this change going forward? We better hope so, because MY's got talent he just needs to learn the D1 game. If this season was a class, he'd get a D. Same can be said for the overall team. Turnovers, lapses in D, expiring shot clocks, lack of assists, etc all point to a team that wasn't learning how the game is played at this level. Heck, we looked better in the OOC games than we did in most of the Conf games. Leads one to believe we regressed as a team. We experienced some bad games in RMs first season, but toward the end you could at least see what he was trying to accomplish. I'm not sure what we were trying to accomplish this year. That blame lays squarely at the feet of JC. Instead of all those confusing rotations, he would have been better off playing 7-8 guys that would at least try and play as a team by setting good screens, kicking the ball out, providing help on D. That would have got the message across to the guys who wanted to do it "my way". It very likely would not have produced a better record, but it might well have given us an idea of what JC was trying to build. Instead, we got chaotic BB and a whole bunch of embarrassing defeats at the hands of the league's bottom feeders. Yes, he'll get another year, and who knows maybe more. But I'm hoping if next year's a repeat of this season, the admin will wake up and smell the coffee and do what's necessary to jump start this program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 As someone that went to SLU for undergrad and U of I for grad school, it's been a rough year. I think Groce totally lost the team this year. He's got some very talented players, but they were tough to watch this year. If you think the Billiken offense is lacking...watch the Illini. They run two plays - Clear out and go 1:1 or dribble/pass around on the perimeter and jack up a contested 3. The games they win are the ones where they hit 3's. Otherwise they get blown out of the gym. What also saved them is that they play pretty solid D (outside of last night) and are (were) one of the top 2 FT shooting teams in the nation. The Illini are #1 in the nation at 79.4%...a staggering number. Most teams would love to have that for a few games... the Illini averaged that for the whole season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 The witch hunting and character assassination problem is inherent in our current American culture with its predominance of entitled, loud, and unthinking characters permeating every aspect of our society. We live in the "ME" culture with instant messaging, and zero ability to deal with anything that goes against our wishes. We have many of these people in this board, who cannot live without instant gratification or without calling attention upon themselves and their hurt desires. Add to these the trolls that flock in waves at unpredictable times and you have threads like this. This happens in every fan board. The reality is this: We have a team that got soundly beaten this season. We have a coach that did not get the team where we hoped it might go. Certainly the teams lack of success did not meet the needs of all of these entitled "fans". We cannot send the whole team packing and replace it with another team of magically talented players that will win every game they play from the word go. These mythical players are not available, period. We are not going to replace the head coach for this coming year, period. We need to develop the team we have in place with the coach that we have in place, period. This still leaves a lot of room for positive action and improvement. The individual players may (should) frequent the gyms and weight rooms, the head coach may judiciously preen the team and the coaching staff, carefully replacing some where required. Lots can be done before the next year playing season. This is reality guys, suck it up and live with it. The current state of affairs will not last forever. Have no doubt that the head coach is aware that he bears the ultimate responsibility for the achievements or lack thereof of the team. Have no doubt that the head coach's continuation will ultimately depend on team success, it just will not happen NOW. I mostly agree (though I'm not sure what instant messaging has to do with it). The thing is, we didn't see much development of this team during the course of the season. At a certain point it's not development; it's stagnation. Crews will get one more year to show some development/improvement, and after what he did keeping the past two teams together, he deserves that much. But beyond that it would truly be "unthinking" not to recognize stagnation and embrace a full reboot of the program. We're already there anyway. We've hit rock bottom, and it's much lower than most "thinking" people were expecting. If anybody was predicting an 11-21 record at the beginning of the season, with the team playing its worst rather than best ball in February and March, they certainly didn't say so at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 hsmith instant messaging = instant gratification or something like it. I think they are connected somehow. Agree with most of what you say. The issue that intrigues me is that we were playing better in January and then things went bad somehow. I assume there was something internal going on with the team and hope it can be solved by transfers. I am, of course, not certain this can be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I'm not all that old, but I do remember the pre-instant messaging era, and I remember sports fans getting angry at coaches when their teams lost back then too. I also remember a lot of coaches with more impressive resumes than Crews getting fired after seasons not nearly as bad as this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Balderdash. Ca-ca. Majerus went 12-19 in 11-12, then 26-8 the next. It's a good thing that some of the knuckleheads on this board didn't get their way, they would have fired him. Spoon 11-18 in 96-97, then 22-11. And this was far and away the most inexperienced team of all... so quit the whining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMouthBilliken Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Look at the coaches in your examples! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastsidejoe Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Look at the coaches in your examples! i have resolved myself to mediocity. Maybe things will change when season ticket holders drop by at least 10%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Balderdash. Ca-ca. Majerus went 12-19 in 11-12, then 26-8 the next. It's a good thing that some of the knuckleheads on this board didn't get their way, they would have fired him. Spoon 11-18 in 96-97, then 22-11. And this was far and away the most inexperienced team of all... so quit the whining. So this team is going to add a Mitchell or Waldman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 No but there's a possibility we're adding a center that will allow us to play 5 on 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 So this team is going to add a Mitchell or Waldman? Our Billikens are not as bad as they appear on paper. There will be a big jump in productivity for our extremely young team. So many things went badly this year, we didn't jell. But the talent and coaching is there. If the 6 freshmen + Agbeko + Crawford return, there will be considerable improvement with a year under their belts. Stronger, wiser, so many lessons learned. (Though, IMO there are 1 or 2 freshmen that wouldn't hurt us badly to lose). Then Yacoubou, if he refrains from overextending himself and making mistakes, he could then improve significantly as well with the proper discipline. He is a good defender, brings plenty of offense, he tried to carry the team too often and got no help most of the time. I say, if we play the same weak OOC schedule, 20 wins, back to being competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastsidejoe Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 yeh, right. I hope you are right, but i seriously doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Does anyone else find the radical mood swings of posters on this board amusing? Less than a year ago, people here were talking about possibly returning to the dance, 20 or more wins, etc. now people are talking about next season with fewer wins than this season, fired coaches, a failing program, loss of season ticket holders, etc. People always overreact both on the upside and the downside. It's part of human nature and, at times, it is very entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David King Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 It's a little bit sad that the Great Rick Majerus' legacy will forever be somewhat tarnished because he gave us Jim Crews. We really shouldn't blame Majerus. He just wanted Crews as an assistant coach. You'll recall that Majerus dragged Crews out of retirement, and it was only going to be for one year. Then, fate took over. What was a huge loss for Saint Louis University, and all of college basketball, was like winning the lottery for Jim Crews. Similar to many lottery winners, Crews squandered it all in a few short years. The SLU administration shouldn't be faulted for his hire either. Their hands were tied. It was clear that they had misgivings about Crews, but, back-to-back A-10 championships, and coach of the year made it impossible not to, grudgingly, keep him on. There was nothing in Crews pre-retirement resume that indicated he would even be considered for a head coaching position at SLU, or any other mid-major. Prior to SLU, he had an uninspiringly, mediocre record of 353-349. Anybody that was paying attention could see the ever accelerating deterioration of the teams under Crews stewardship. Admittedly, the 2012-13 team that Crews coached was the greatest Billiken's team in the modern era. But that team was Majerus', and the death of Rick, during that season, probably added extra motivation. The 2013-14 team underperformed. Yes, 27-7 ain't bad. But as the season progressed, it was obvious that Majerus' signature lockdown defense was springing some major leaks. Many of the late season games, against inferior opponents, were nail biters to the end, and only won due to senior experience and leadership. Then there was this year. Everybody expected a down year, but not 21 losses! Plus, the team got worse, not better, as the season progressed. From watching most of the games, many times, it was difficult to determine if the players were being coached at all. Of course Crews won't be fired this year. It's unlikely that he will retire again soon. Best case, reasonable scenario, both for the future of the team, and the fans, is that the team sucks, out loud, next year, too. Then, Crews will be fired. I have confidence that a good coach will then be brought in, and the Billikens can get back to the business of being a consistent top-50 program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Pelican Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 "Crews squandered it all in a few short years." Geez, get a grip. We've had one bad year after several good ones. Now, if that continues, a change will likely be made. NO ONE enjoyed this past season but it's not like we've had a decade of futility under this coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Nice post Mr. King. Only issue is in closing .. get back to a Top 50 program? I guess you are only counting the Majerus run, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwayne's_World Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Again, the big question will be who to hire after this upcoming season since it's more likely than not that it will be Crews' last. I just don't see him staying beyond this next season. Some have mentioned pursuing a high end assistant coach to establish a good program under (Duke AC), some have mentioned bringing veteran coaches out of retirement (i.e. Ben Howland). Whatever we end up doing, it is on Chris May to make the right decision. If he can't hire someone who will get us back to the dance in the foreseeable future, then he should be on the hot seat as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 If Crews lands FBJT he stays. If FBJT turns out to be a 'TOOL' then it's time to search for his replacement. Simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I disagree, of course, I think Crews' fate will be controlled by his actions and success or lack thereof this coming season or seasons. I really do not see programs shedding head coaches after a bad season or two, however when bad seasons become the norm rather than the exception then head coaches are shed. The exception to this rule is generally some kind of totally unacceptable event happening during a season. This event may involve player behavior or coach issues. If an event of this nature does occur in the future then all bets are off regarding head coach retention. Assuming no such an unacceptable event happens I can see Crews coaching the Bills for some time, perhaps a significant amount of time, depending on performance and the success of the team. I think that if next season is anything but a repeat of this season's terrible results, or worse, we can be reasonably assured Crews will remain as head coach for at least one additional year. I simply cannot believe Crews will be fired after next season in the absence of an unacceptable event, provided the team's performance improves by a fair degree. Please note that the word "fair" does not require making it to the top 50 level next season. I presume the AD will meet with coach Crews and work out the details of what will be expected out of him and the team next season, and the following seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_davola Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I think that if next season is anything but a repeat of this season's terrible results, or worse, we can be reasonably assured Crews will remain as head coach for at least one additional year. I simply cannot believe Crews will be fired after next season in the absence of an unacceptable event, provided the team's performance improves by a fair degree. Please note that the word "fair" does not require making it to the top 50 level next season. I presume the AD will meet with coach Crews and work out the details of what will be expected out of him and the team next season, and the following seasons. It all depends on what improvement we see. If we have a repeat of what we had this year, he is gone. I can't see how May would let him stay if we don't improve dramatically. If we see the team improve enough next year where it is realistic to say we have a good shot at making the tourney with the freshman as juniors, without FBJT, then I think he stays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Does anyone else find the radical mood swings of posters on this board amusing? Less than a year ago, people here were talking about possibly returning to the dance, 20 or more wins, etc. now people are talking about next season with fewer wins than this season, fired coaches, a failing program, loss of season ticket holders, etc. People always overreact both on the upside and the downside. It's part of human nature and, at times, it is very entertaining. I don't recalll too many saying we'd win 20 games. We may have been a little higher on our recruits than we are at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeniceMenace Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 It's a little bit sad that the Great Rick Majerus' legacy will forever be somewhat tarnished because he gave us Jim Crews. We really shouldn't blame Majerus. He just wanted Crews as an assistant coach. You'll recall that Majerus dragged Crews out of retirement, and it was only going to be for one year. Then, fate took over. What was a huge loss for Saint Louis University, and all of college basketball, was like winning the lottery for Jim Crews. Similar to many lottery winners, Crews squandered it all in a few short years. The SLU administration shouldn't be faulted for his hire either. Their hands were tied. It was clear that they had misgivings about Crews, but, back-to-back A-10 championships, and coach of the year made it impossible not to, grudgingly, keep him on. There was nothing in Crews pre-retirement resume that indicated he would even be considered for a head coaching position at SLU, or any other mid-major. Prior to SLU, he had an uninspiringly, mediocre record of 353-349. Anybody that was paying attention could see the ever accelerating deterioration of the teams under Crews stewardship. Admittedly, the 2012-13 team that Crews coached was the greatest Billiken's team in the modern era. But that team was Majerus', and the death of Rick, during that season, probably added extra motivation. The 2013-14 team underperformed. Yes, 27-7 ain't bad. But as the season progressed, it was obvious that Majerus' signature lockdown defense was springing some major leaks. Many of the late season games, against inferior opponents, were nail biters to the end, and only won due to senior experience and leadership. Then there was this year. Everybody expected a down year, but not 21 losses! Plus, the team got worse, not better, as the season progressed. From watching most of the games, many times, it was difficult to determine if the players were being coached at all. Of course Crews won't be fired this year. It's unlikely that he will retire again soon. Best case, reasonable scenario, both for the future of the team, and the fans, is that the team sucks, out loud, next year, too. Then, Crews will be fired. I have confidence that a good coach will then be brought in, and the Billikens can get back to the business of being a consistent top-50 program. Thanks for the thesis Dr. King...we now rejoin our regularly scheduled program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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