Recruiting - 2018 class

[bauman]

2 hours ago, Pistol said:

To add a little more to your point, too, the three local kids we've offered in 2018 who haven't yet committed are Davis, Watson, and Reece. Even if all three wanted to play at SLU - and assuming some more transfers - I'm not sure we'd have enough scholarships by then, and that's not even getting into positional logjams, or the fact that we're involved with a number of non-local players, as well.

This is a much better problem to have than wondering if the semi-unknown back-up plans we're signing are going to pan out.

I hope we're able to look back at the Goodwin and Gordon commitments years from now as the ones that changed it all.

Pistol, or anyone else who has some inside recruiting knowledge, here's what I don't understand about our current recruiting:  Certainly we have some priorities for the 2018 class when, if things don't change, we will have 1 scholarship (Gillmann) still to give.  As of now we have quite a few offers out for that 1 known scholarship.  What if the player our staff rates as their number three choice commits (or wants to commit).  What do we do?  Withdraw the offer or accept the commit and give up on choices 1 & 2?  Do we think that might be why Thatch committed  early?

[SLURadioBoy]

4 minutes ago, bauman said:

Pistol, or anyone else who has some inside recruiting knowledge, here's what I don't understand about our current recruiting:  Certainly we have some priorities for the 2018 class when, if things don't change, we will have 1 scholarship (Gillmann) still to give.  As of now we have quite a few offers out for that 1 known scholarship.  What if the player our staff rates as their number three choice commits (or wants to commit).  What do we do?  Withdraw the offer or accept the commit and give up on choices 1 & 2?  Do we think that might be why Thatch committed  early?

I have zero inside knowledge, but after reading how Ford recruited Thatch personally, I think he really wanted him. Maybe he wanted to get an early commitment from him in case he blows up on the AAU circuit this summer and the bigger schools started calling? It appears by the time Thatch graduates, he will be Sikeston's all time leader in scoring, rebounding and assists. Looks like we will be getting a player with a good overall skill set. I think a class of Gordon, Thatch and Watson/Davis/Reece would go quite nicely with this year's strong recruiting class. 

[3star_recruit]

Gilmann and Roby graduate in 2018. Those are the two scholarships that have been filled by Thatch and Gordon. The 3rd scholarship will open up when Neufeld transfers after this season.

The staff wants Watson -- I just don't think they're going to get him. Creighton basically has a starting shooting guard position available if he wants it. Butler and Iowa State have made him a priority. An offer from Notre Dame could be coming in the spring.

SLU controls the timing of when they'll accept a commitment. There's no danger of a player committing before SLU is ready. But they're not going to wait around forever on Watson either. Our backup options know they are backup options and may get immediately commitable offers from someone else.

[TheChosenOne]

1 minute ago, 3star_recruit said:

SLU controls the timing of when they'll accept a commitment. There's no danger of a player committing before SLU is ready. But they're not going to wait around forever on Watson either. Our backup options know they are backup options and may get immediately commitable offers from someone else.

Curious of your thoughts on Karrington Davis. As a Chaminade alum I have watched him quite a bit and honestly don't know what to think about him.

[3star_recruit]

Davis has made tremendous strides the past year. He's Chaminade's most consistent player. He manages to put up numbers without being a ball dominant player. The trend line for his development certainly looks good. Davis is going to have plenty of opportunities to showcase his skills in big games this year and next. Same with Reece.

Watson is already an alpha dog. His ball skills are what separate him. Davis and Reece are trying to to become dominant players. 

 

[bauman]

No offense to Thatch, I'm very happy to have him, but when we accepted his commitment, it indicated to me that Ford did not think he was going to get Watson or at least didn't feel confident about Watson signing with SLU.

[SLURadioBoy]

2 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

SLU controls the timing of when they'll accept a commitment. There's no danger of a player committing before SLU is ready. But they're not going to wait around forever on Watson either. Our backup options know they are backup options and may get immediately commitable offers from someone else.

If SLU doesn't get Watson, who would you prefer they get out of Davis, Reece and Tabbs?

[kshoe]

2 hours ago, bauman said:

No offense to Thatch, I'm very happy to have him, but when we accepted his commitment, it indicated to me that Ford did not think he was going to get Watson or at least didn't feel confident about Watson signing with SLU.

I don't know how you can say this.

1) You don't have any real idea whether Ford prefers Thatch over Watson or vice versa.

2) Even if he was 80% confident in getting Watson he may have preferred the 100% from Thatch. I'd consider 80% a pretty high level of confidence. 

3) The scholarship situation will work itself out. Ford likely wants them both, real bad. It's not an either/or type situation.

[bauman]

2 minutes ago, kshoe said:

I don't know how you can say this.

1) You don't have any real idea whether Ford prefers Thatch over Watson or vice versa.

2) Even if he was 80% confident in getting Watson he may have preferred the 100% from Thatch. I'd consider 80% a pretty high level of confidence. 

3) The scholarship situation will work itself out. Ford likely wants them both, real bad. It's not an either/or type situation.

1)  Nor do you have any "real idea" who Ford prefers

2) Talk about me speculating-there are absolutely no facts supporting any of your 80% or 100% statements about anything

3) I hope you are right that everything works itself out.  Nothing I wrote said Ford wouldn't WANT both of them, but had the feeling that this meant likely no Watson.  Just my belief which I think I'm entitled to, even if you disagree.

[3star_recruit]

1 hour ago, SLURadioBoy said:

If SLU doesn't get Watson, who would you prefer they get out of Davis, Reece and Tabbs?

Tabbs looks like more of a sure thing than the other two. But with the roster Ford has assembled, I think he can afford to gamble on upside.  If Reece continues his impressive play in the playoffs, I'd take Reece and redshirt him. Kind of like the Spurs stashing away talented draft picks in the D League.

[kshoe]

2 hours ago, bauman said:

1)  Nor do you have any "real idea" who Ford prefers

2) Talk about me speculating-there are absolutely no facts supporting any of your 80% or 100% statements about anything

3) I hope you are right that everything works itself out.  Nothing I wrote said Ford wouldn't WANT both of them, but had the feeling that this meant likely no Watson.  Just my belief which I think I'm entitled to, even if you disagree.

Chill out. Not every poster that doesn't agree with you is saying you aren't entitled to an opinion.

My opinion is that the commitment from Thatch is not necessarily a sign that we aren't getting Watson. We may or may not get him, but both players were offered in the summer and Ford clearly wants both so any implication that Thatch is a secondary recruit just irks me. And typically when someone starts a sentence with "no offense..." they are are about to offend.

[SLURadioBoy]

10 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

Tabbs looks like more of a sure thing than the other two. But with the roster Ford has assembled, I think he can afford to gamble on upside.  If Reece continues his impressive play in the playoffs, I'd take Reece and redshirt him. Kind of like the Spurs stashing away talented draft picks in the D League.

So you think Reece has more upside than Davis? How do their skill sets compare to one another? I've never seen either play, so I was just curious.

[Pistol]

16 hours ago, bauman said:

Pistol, or anyone else who has some inside recruiting knowledge, here's what I don't understand about our current recruiting:  Certainly we have some priorities for the 2018 class when, if things don't change, we will have 1 scholarship (Gillmann) still to give.  As of now we have quite a few offers out for that 1 known scholarship.  What if the player our staff rates as their number three choice commits (or wants to commit).  What do we do?  Withdraw the offer or accept the commit and give up on choices 1 & 2?  Do we think that might be why Thatch committed  early?

Hopefully this answers your question, as I can't put it any better:

15 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

Gilmann and Roby graduate in 2018. Those are the two scholarships that have been filled by Thatch and Gordon. The 3rd scholarship will open up when Neufeld transfers after this season.

The staff wants Watson -- I just don't think they're going to get him. Creighton basically has a starting shooting guard position available if he wants it. Butler and Iowa State have made him a priority. An offer from Notre Dame could be coming in the spring.

SLU controls the timing of when they'll accept a commitment. There's no danger of a player committing before SLU is ready. But they're not going to wait around forever on Watson either. Our backup options know they are backup options and may get immediately commitable offers from someone else.

 

[Pistol]

Re: Thatch - I can't pretend to know the exact reasons from either side for the timing of his commitment. But I like it, and I'm excited to have him. He looks like he's grown, and he's still got another year and a half before his freshman semester starts.

Re: Tabbs - As 3star said the other day, Tabbs scored 35 in an upset over DeMatha to finish the WCAC regular season. For those not familiar, the WCAC is the 10-member private school conference in the DC area, and is usually one of the most loaded basketball conferences in the nation. He added 8 rebounds and 5 assists. He also was just named to the WCAC all-conference first team. St. Mary's Ryken lost in the conference quarterfinals to St. John's, and Tabbs had 15 points. If the Washington Post's All Met Sports section's numbers are accurate, he averaged 15.8 on the season and 13.4 as a sophomore: https://www.washingtonpost.com/allmetsports/st-marys-ryken/wynston-tabbs/?utm_term=.051b553ad84e

[gobillsgo]

13 hours ago, SLURadioBoy said:

If SLU doesn't get Watson, who would you prefer they get out of Davis, Reece and Tabbs?

Give me STL kids over an out of towner unless the out of towner is clearly the superior player/prospect.  I don't know enough about Tabbs to say whether that is or isn't the case.  But we need to strengthen our grip on the STL pipeline so that when the next Beal comes along, there's enough precedent for him to stay home.  STL/MO/IL should be the meat and potatoes of our recruiting, then we can really shoot for the stars with some out of towners to complement (ex: French, Ayo Dosunmu).  

[3star_recruit]

1 hour ago, SLURadioBoy said:

So you think Reece has more upside than Davis? How do their skill sets compare to one another? I've never seen either play, so I was just curious.

I'm looking more at who could be harder to guard three years from now.  The last guy we had who was 6'8 or taller that could handle the ball like Reece was Izik Ohanon but Ohanon was a supbar shooter.  Reece is a good outside shooter. A 6'8 shooter who can get his own shot can cause serious matchup problems in the A-10.  Look how well Jalen Johnson is doing, who is an inch and half shorter.  I'm looking forward to how Reece performs in the playoffs.

[SLURadioBoy]

7 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

I'm looking more at who could be harder to guard three years from now.  The last guy we had who was 6'8 or taller that could handle the ball like Reece was Izik Ohanon but Ohanon was a supbar shooter.  Reece is a good outside shooter. A 6'8 shooter who can get his own shot can cause serious matchup problems in the A-10.  Look how well Jalen Johnson is doing, who is an inch and half shorter.  I'm looking forward to how Reece performs in the playoffs.

Thanks, 3star. If he's 6'8" and can handle the ball as well as shoot from the outside, I can certainly see the appeal.

[HoosierPal]

23 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

Give me STL kids over an out of towner unless the out of towner is clearly the superior player/prospect.  I don't know enough about Tabbs to say whether that is or isn't the case.  But we need to strengthen our grip on the STL pipeline so that when the next Beal comes along, there's enough precedent for him to stay home.  STL/MO/IL should be the meat and potatoes of our recruiting, then we can really shoot for the stars with some out of towners to complement (ex: French, Ayo Dosunmu).  

It is always an interesting discussion on signing locals v non-locals.  Here is an interesting fact:  Eight of the top 10 all time Billiken Career Scorers are local products.  The two who aren't are #7 Mitchell and #9 Evans.  I'm not sure if this means anything except we have been able to attract good local talent in the past.  But local talent has not lead us into a Sweet Sixteen in modern times.

[gobillsgo]

6 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

It is always an interesting discussion on signing locals v non-locals.  Here is an interesting fact:  Eight of the top 10 all time Billiken Career Scorers are local products.  The two who aren't are #7 Mitchell and #9 Evans.  I'm not sure if this means anything except we have been able to attract good local talent in the past.  But local talent has not lead us into a Sweet Sixteen in modern times.

But we haven't really been able to recruit the upper echelon of local talent, at least not since Hughes.  Guys like Roosevelt Jones, Tatum, Cook, Biedscheid (yes I know he was a bust)., etc.  I'd like to see us get to the point where basically all the locals want to stay home and we get our pick of the bunch...  Obviously there will always be exceptions, guys who want to leave home.  But as the only D1 school in STL, we should largely have a monopoly on area talent.  SUstained success on the court and on the recruiting trail will make it easier.  Goodwin and Gordon are the trailblazers.  As younger kids see local stars staying home it will show them it's ok to play at SLU.  You don't have to go to the Big East/B10/ACC to play where your idols played.

[HoosierPal]

1 minute ago, gobillsgo said:

But we haven't really been able to recruit the upper echelon of local talent, at least not since Hughes.  Guys like Roosevelt Jones, Tatum, Cook, Biedscheid (yes I know he was a bust)., etc.  I'd like to see us get to the point where basically all the locals want to stay home and we get our pick of the bunch...  Obviously there will always be exceptions, guys who want to leave home.  But as the only D1 school in STL, we should largely have a monopoly on area talent.  SUstained success on the court and on the recruiting trail will make it easier.  Goodwin and Gordon are the trailblazers.  As younger kids see local stars staying home it will show them it's ok to play at SLU.  You don't have to go to the Big East/B10/ACC to play where your idols played.

Agree, and you can add Bradley Beal to that group.  On the other hand, I have trouble coming up with a top level team where the majority of their power is local. Anyone recall a recent team where they ran out 4 or 5 local products and had a high level of success?

[wgstl]

4 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

But we haven't really been able to recruit the upper echelon of local talent, at least not since Hughes.  Guys like Roosevelt Jones, Tatum, Cook, Biedscheid (yes I know he was a bust)., etc.  I'd like to see us get to the point where basically all the locals want to stay home and we get our pick of the bunch...  Obviously there will always be exceptions, guys who want to leave home.  But as the only D1 school in STL, we should largely have a monopoly on area talent.  SUstained success on the court and on the recruiting trail will make it easier.  Goodwin and Gordon are the trailblazers.  As younger kids see local stars staying home it will show them it's ok to play at SLU.  You don't have to go to the Big East/B10/ACC to play where your idols played.

Crews isn't here, no need to worry about this stuff anymore. 

[3star_recruit]

Indiana kids Gordon Hayward, Matt Howard, Andrew Smith and Zach Hahn were all on the Butler roster that went the championship game.

[HoosierPal]

7 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Indiana kids Gordon Hayward, Matt Howard, Andrew Smith and Zach Hahn were all on the Butler roster that went the championship game.

True. Howard was from Connersville and Hahn from New Castle not Indianapolis but close enough. Fab Five?

[DeSmetBilliken]

3 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

I'm looking more at who could be harder to guard three years from now.  The last guy we had who was 6'8 or taller that could handle the ball like Reece was Izik Ohanon but Ohanon was a supbar shooter.  Reece is a good outside shooter. A 6'8 shooter who can get his own shot can cause serious matchup problems in the A-10.  Look how well Jalen Johnson is doing, who is an inch and half shorter.  I'm looking forward to how Reece performs in the playoffs.

I think I saw Reece at the game the other day. Tall lanky kid? When I saw him my thoughts were that he looked like Darrell Davis at Dayton, only maybe taller. If that 6'8" figure is accurate, he's 3 inches taller than Davis, so that comp may be out the window.

[Pistol]

39 minutes ago, DeSmetBilliken said:

I think I saw Reece at the game the other day. Tall lanky kid? When I saw him my thoughts were that he looked like Darrell Davis at Dayton, only maybe taller. If that 6'8" figure is accurate, he's 3 inches taller than Davis, so that comp may be out the window.

That must be him. He does look a lot like Davis, actually. Same haircut, relatively lanky, and they look kinda similar overall. But Reece is easily 3-4 inches taller. He's about Stockard's height (they're the two tallest on Vashon) but 60 or so lbs. lighter.