Ranking Big East Candidates

[Box and Won]

Slightly off-topic (and maybe someone mentioned it a few weeks ago), but has everyone noticed that Creighton is running academic recruiting ads on St. Louis radio stations?

They have a billboard near 44 and Arsenal as well.

[prebilliken]

I thought I would just say, the Robins Center is a beautiful arena, on an even prettier campus.

When these renovations are finished, and if Richmond and SLU were to be added to the BE, the Robins center would be the second or third nicest on-campus arena in the league. Sorry, Chaifetz, given its on campus location, would be the crown jewel of the BE. Hinkle has history, but take that away and its a drafty gym. The Cintas center? I don't know what X was thinking with that awful horse-shoe design but that giant wall gives a strange feel to the place. Plus, x's student section is a tiny little joke. Wow now that I've realized it, Providence, Creighton, Marquette, Georgetown, Seton Hall, and sometimes Villanova all play their games in off-campus arenas... And sometimes St. John's.

The Robins center, for its size, is already a beautiful arena. Mainly because its a true arena, and it avoids the "Big Highschool Gym look" that a lot of gym's of that size tend to layout in.

I visited Richmond a few years back because I was in town, gem of a campus, just gorgeous, any East Coast Bills who could make it to a game should some time.

[xudash]

Pistol,

My pleasure. I respect SLU a great deal and believe both SLU and Richmond would be excellent additions to the BE.

Time will tell, but, either way, winning big in the meantime will make life pleasant for you.

CT, it's as kshoe described it about Dayton.

Otherwise, I believe bostonspider is spot on with his comments: UR, with its institutional appeal, eastern support, the balance that it would bring, and beautifully renovated facility, should help the BE move towards expansion if and when the BE finds that to be in its best interests.

Will/can the BE get half its teams into the Dance? Easier said than done, but will begin to learn more about that soon enough. Assuming expected performance comes through, GU, CU, and Marquette will make it. Then I believe 2 will come from Xavier, St. John's and nova, with Providence now knocking on the door, too.

[JettFlight5]

I guess the million dollar question here is what changes in 2-3 years to put a team in the league that didn't make it in Round 1?

And the SLU-centric question...what will that timeframe bring for us?

[Taj79]

Robbins looks great! The old-to-new is really a great contrast in that post. The Smith Center still sucks.

[prebilliken]

http://www.timesdispatch.com/sports/college/basketball/robins-center-renovation-passes-eye-ear-tests/article_77d438b1-b531-5d63-a5c7-0171b4728cb6.html?mode=image

Some better picture of the new interior. Those video boards look nice. I actually prefer the 4 in the corner look to the 1 center jumbo tron on mid-sized arenas.

[majerus mojo]

Looks like I'm a Richmond fan for the next couple seasons.

[Clock_Tower]

Yahoo maps indicates that University of Richmond is 110 miles from Georgetown. Yes, northern Virginia is a suburb of Washington DC --- but not for 110 miles. Richmond appears to have its own market and is not a complete overlap of DC/Georgetown. Further, DC is expanding into Maryland as much/more as it is toward Richmond. In fact, DC and Baltimore (to the North) are become more of a metropolitan area/district than DC and Richmond (to the South). Yes, it is possible for a couple to live halfway between DC and Richmond and to have each spouse commute respectively to DC and Richmond but that would mean that each spouse commutes 55 miles.

In contrast, UD and X are 48 miles apart with each city's suburbs largely growing in the same direction. That some couple could live halfway between and each be left with only a 24 mile commute.

Geography and overlapping markets does not favor UD or George Mason. And at first, I thought Richmond was overlapping with Georgetown but now no longer believe that.

[rhagolf]

SLU's future depends upon being admitted to the Big East. Trying to sell tickets in the watered-down A-10 will be nigh-on impossible, if the "drawing cards" are VCU and George Mason. Adding those to Duquesne, Fordham, the Bonnies, Rhode Island, etc. brings very little to the table, for anyone other than the diehard fan.

Compare the appeal of a SLU/Georgetown matchup, to one of SLU/St. Joseph. It's not even in the same area code.

[Taj79]

Another issue however with the DC market expanding towards Baltimore is the little civic roadblock known as College Park, Maryland, which sits smack on DC's northeast corner guarding the I-95/Baltimore/Washington Parkway lanes going north and is home to a school with a basketball history and tradition richer than Georgetown's. And the Twerps go Big Ten next year. I guarantee you the kids in Baltimore know a heck of a lot more about Maryland than they do Georgetown and the Baltimore pipeline goes off to other schools --- like Syracuse (Anthony, Fair) or Uconn (Gay) or even Notre Dame (Atkins) ---- long before it even looks at DC. Having said that, Gary Williams and staff left a foul taste in Baltimore amateur circles ala what Norm Stewart did for Mizzou in St. Louis. That's why Mark Turgeon brought in Dalonte Hill from KState (and made him the highest paid assistant before he ran into drunk driving issues and is currently suspended). Hill is huge in DC AAU circles and you will recall was the caddie for Michael Beasley and took him to KState and away from Charlotte when Huggy Bear hired Hill from Bobby Lutz. Turgeon is one shrewd operator from what I've seen. He also wants to play one game per year in old Cole Fieldhouse for "resurrecting the ghosts" sake.

Richmond is nowhere near a DC suburb. A little piece of history --- called the Civil War --- lives long in separationist policies for each city. Plus, there's a lot of open country between Richmond and the Fairfax (Va.) County line.

I still believe geography is key in the selection of #'s 11 and 12. And if they wait two or three years for continued results, if we don't maintain, Dayton will look all the better.

I have heard stories on the Biondi role in BE negotiations. Depending on the slant, some say he failed us in his usual and typical way. Others say he refused to capitulate to the demands of the BE for our entry. I expect there is some truth to either side. No matter,going forward is all on the shoulders of the new administration, whoever that will be.

[JMM28]

Taj - Maryland has a richer basketball tradition than Georgetown? In intramural leagues? Because they certainly don't in NCAA Division 1 basketball. Not to mention their athletic department is a mess.

[cheeseman]

SLU's future depends upon being admitted to the Big East. Trying to sell tickets in the watered-down A-10 will be nigh-on impossible, if the "drawing cards" are VCU and George Mason. Adding those to Duquesne, Fordham, the Bonnies, Rhode Island, etc. brings very little to the table, for anyone other than the diehard fan.

Compare the appeal of a SLU/Georgetown matchup, to one of SLU/St. Joseph. It's not even in the same area code.

If we are winning I do think we can sell our own tix based on us - but good match ups never hurt.

[cheeseman]

Another issue however with the DC market expanding towards Baltimore is the little civic roadblock known as College Park, Maryland, which sits smack on DC's northeast corner guarding the I-95/Baltimore/Washington Parkway lanes going north and is home to a school with a basketball history and tradition richer than Georgetown's. And the Twerps go Big Ten next year. I guarantee you the kids in Baltimore know a heck of a lot more about Maryland than they do Georgetown and the Baltimore pipeline goes off to other schools --- like Syracuse (Anthony, Fair) or Uconn (***) or even Notre Dame (Atkins) ---- long before it even looks at DC. Having said that, Gary Williams and staff left a foul taste in Baltimore amateur circles ala what Norm Stewart did for Mizzou in St. Louis. That's why Mark Turgeon brought in Dalonte Hill from KState (and made him the highest paid assistant before he ran into drunk driving issues and is currently suspended). Hill is huge in DC AAU circles and you will recall was the caddie for Michael Beasley and took him to KState and away from Charlotte when Huggy Bear hired Hill from Bobby Lutz. Turgeon is one shrewd operator from what I've seen. He also wants to play one game per year in old Cole Fieldhouse for "resurrecting the ghosts" sake.

Richmond is nowhere near a DC suburb. A little piece of history --- called the Civil War --- lives long in separationist policies for each city. Plus, there's a lot of open country between Richmond and the Fairfax (Va.) County line.

I still believe geography is key in the selection of #'s 11 and 12. And if they wait two or three years for continued results, if we don't maintain, Dayton will look all the better.

I have heard stories on the Biondi role in BE negotiations. Depending on the slant, some say he failed us in his usual and typical way. Others say he refused to capitulate to the demands of the BE for our entry. I expect there is some truth to either side. No matter,going forward is all on the shoulders of the new administration, whoever that will be.

Are you suggesting that Biondi turned an invite down because the conditions were not good? If so - I would love to know what those conditions were - it would be interesting to see just how onerous they may have been.

[MusicCityBilliken]

If we are winning I do think we can sell our own tix based on us - but good match ups never hurt.

I know overall attendance was 7646 average last year. Wasn't A10 attendance up around 9000? Not bad since Chaifetz only seats 10,500.

The problem with attendance last year was crappy OOC games.

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

Regarding Creighton and them getting selected over SLU. While I do think that the relationships at the presidential level had a lot to do with it, people shouldn't be so quick to look past what Creighton has to offer. Most significantly, they currently have about 16k season ticket holders and have sold nearly 2,000 tickets to the Big East tourney in NYC. We have positives too, but lets be honest we come nowhere near matching those two categories.

Get off Creighton's nuts, Kshoe.

[prebilliken]

Taj - Maryland has a richer basketball tradition than Georgetown? In intramural leagues? Because they certainly don't in NCAA Division 1 basketball. Not to mention their athletic department is a mess.

They each have one National Championship and Maryland's is more recent. The rest of the resume favors Georgetown, granted.

Maryland has swaths of NCAA Hall of Fame members. The legacy of Maryland Basketball is not as well known as big brothers Duke and UNC in the ACC but they have more than enough to hang their hat on. I think what Taj is asserting, and he is massively correct, is that Maryland holds WAY MORE sway over fans in that general area. They own the DC market, if anyone can own a place where so many schools and alumni bases meet up.

Their athletic department is a mess, the result of betting one time to many of former SLU AD's.

[Taj79]

prebilliken said it best. I am not advocating one over the other, but Maryland's recent history is much more current with the basketball coming of age crowd,although barely. Georgetown's is closer to ancient history.

Georgetown also has a small problem that could be associated with SLU --- that is "preppiness, private, costly, snotty." Kids around here have a hard enough time getting into Maryland with in-state rates. Georgetown isn't even in the lexicon here. And this was in two cycles of my own kids looking at schools along with their friends. Those kids went to VCU, Elon, High Point, James Madison, ECU, Coastal Carolina, Salisbury State, Frostburg State, Wilmington and a few others.

Georgetown and GeeDub continually are in the top ten of America's costly colleges. And the Georgetown/M Street section of DC is certainly "uptown" in haute and feel. Their only national title was 1984 ---- almost 30 years ago. No 18-year-old knows Patrick Ewing any better than he knows Ed McCauley.

Another difference, to me, is feel. Maryland played at Cole and now the on-campus Comcast Center. They have had a "home." G-town is just another carpetbagger in a carpetbagger city playing with the rest of the imports at the Phone Booth. The Verizon Center is no different than Savvis. Folks like roy can applaud the creature comforts but I'll take a Palestra, a Hinkle, a Robbins and a Chaifetz over any of those sterile, multi-tenant places anytime.

[Taj79]

The MD athletic department believes they will compete in the Big Ten. I do not. They could rule in soccer and lacrosse, but basketball will be tougher and they'll never field a good enough football team. They can't play football in the weak ACC.

[Old guy]

Taj, I just wanted to point out that schools located in DC do not receive State funding because DC is not a state. That puts them in a position of having to use their tuition to pay a greater portion of the expenses. It is not ONLY snottiness, part of it is financial necessity for lack of state funds

[brianstl]

prebilliken said it best. I am not advocating one over the other, but Maryland's recent history is much more current with the basketball coming of age crowd,although barely. Georgetown's is closer to ancient history.

Georgetown also has a small problem that could be associated with SLU --- that is "preppiness, private, costly, snotty." Kids around here have a hard enough time getting into Maryland with in-state rates. Georgetown isn't even in the lexicon here. And this was in two cycles of my own kids looking at schools along with their friends. Those kids went to VCU, Elon, High Point, James Madison, ECU, Coastal Carolina, Salisbury State, Frostburg State, Wilmington and a few others.

Georgetown and GeeDub continually are in the top ten of America's costly colleges. And the Georgetown/M Street section of DC is certainly "uptown" in haute and feel. Their only national title was 1984 ---- almost 30 years ago. No 18-year-old knows Patrick Ewing any better than he knows Ed McCauley.

Another difference, to me, is feel. Maryland played at Cole and now the on-campus Comcast Center. They have had a "home." G-town is just another carpetbagger in a carpetbagger city playing with the rest of the imports at the Phone Booth. The Verizon Center is no different than Savvis. Folks like roy can applaud the creature comforts but I'll take a Palestra, a Hinkle, a Robbins and a Chaifetz over any of those sterile, multi-tenant places anytime.

Maryland's recent history is worse than than Hoyas. The Hoyas recent history is clearly superior. In the last decade the Hoyas have gone to the Final Four once and the Sweet Sixteen 3 times. Maryland has missed the tournament 6 times and hasn't advanced past the second round.

[Quality Is Job 1]

SLU's future depends upon being admitted to the Big East. Trying to sell tickets in the watered-down A-10 will be nigh-on impossible, if the "drawing cards" are VCU and George Mason. Adding those to Duquesne, Fordham, the Bonnies, Rhode Island, etc. brings very little to the table, for anyone other than the diehard fan.

Compare the appeal of a SLU/Georgetown matchup, to one of SLU/St. Joseph. It's not even in the same area code.

I want SLU to be in the new Big East as much as anything, but I don't agree that the program's future depends on it. It would definitely help, but it's also possible to be good without it. See Gonzaga, Butler, and Creighton.

[Taj79]

@brian --- understand your point/opinion. I am not arguing/advocating for either program. What I am saying is that in these here parts, Maryland is the "home" school and Georgetown might as well be as far away as Gonzaga. While neither has an overabundance of local talent, Maryland has more and their title was won by local kids Juan Dixon and Lonnie Baxter.

@oldguy -- while it may be true what you say about DC schools and funding, another phenomena I've noticed is that DC is a collection of nomads. No one seems to be "from DC." The entire district is that of foreign and domestic immigrants, there for one job (government) or another (schooling). The G-town air just seems natural (as does the GeeDub air -- I've never beenon UDC or the Cathloic U. campus) and germane to the overall "feel" of the district.

Get in with a bunch of G-town alums and I'd likely be dead wrong.

[Old guy]

Taj I agree with your points

@oldguy -- while it may be true what you say about DC schools and funding, another phenomena I've noticed is that DC is a collection of nomads. No one seems to be "from DC." The entire district is that of foreign and domestic immigrants, there for one job (government) or another (schooling). The G-town air just seems natural (as does the GeeDub air -- I've never beenon UDC or the Cathloic U. campus) and germane to the overall "feel" of the district.

Taj, you make some valid points. DC is an artificial place full of transients and full of people pretending to be more than what they are. It is not a place that you can feel you belong into. At least that was my experience there.

[Clock_Tower]

Taj, I just wanted to point out that schools located in DC do not receive State funding because DC is not a state. That puts them in a position of having to use their tuition to pay a greater portion of the expenses. It is not ONLY snottiness, part of it is financial necessity for lack of state funds

Not that many schools or people, though, actually live in the 10 mile square known as DC. Most of the people who say they live in DC actually live in northern suburbs of Virginia (Arlington, Alexandria, McClean, Fairfax...) and of Maryland (Silver Springs, Chevy Chase...) Believe the Washington Bullets (now called the Wizards) and Georgetown both play their games (same as Washington Capitals hockey team) in the State of Maryland and only minutes from Univ of Maryland's campus. Same with the Redskins now playing in Maryland.

[Littlebill]

Believe the Washington Bullets (now called the Wizards) and Georgetown both play their games (same as Washington Capitals hockey team) in the State of Maryland and only minutes from Univ of Maryland's campus. Same with the Redskins now playing in Maryland.

Wrong about Wizards, GTown, and Caps. They play in the Verizon Center, which is in DC.