Recruiting - 2016

[TheChosenOne]

I look forward to seeing how the SPUMAC cheerleaders spin this one. I'm sure the P-D "beat writer" will be on the radio soon saying that Mizzou didn't really want Cook (even though they offered). I thought hiring the young hot shot assistant was going to help them land all the local AAU talent?

Cook was a primary target for Mizzou, so I don't think anyone could say that (probably could on Sneed). It is certainly a big miss for them regardless of what you think of Cook as he was a primary target and an in-state player. I do know that Cook was seen to want to get away for college from the beginning, so this is not overly surprising. Tate isn't really a young dynamic guy (played in the mid 90s), but obviously when you hire a guy who coached a top in-state AAU program you would like to see that payoff with some recruits. I am assuming Tate sold his local connections, so he will likely have to deliver some talent over the next few years, although Kim Anderson may not be long for that job regardless. Tate was the lead recruiter on a 6'10 big from Arkansas that committed over the weekend though, so he does have that going for him.

This could be similar to what we are seeing at SLU. The assistant coach (Tate or Fulford at Mizzou or Cheaney at SLU) gets the recruit on campus and then the head coach is a big dud and the recruit commits elsewhere.

As a SLU grad (and huge fan since my time there) and lifelong Mizzou fan, it is sad to see both programs miss on the top local players and there is not much that would lead me to believe that will change over the next few years (Mizzou got kids like VanLeer and Puryear and SLU has a commitment from Moore, but those are not highly sought after players). Having seen guys like Cook and Sneed play I never saw them as program changing players, but it certainly hurts to miss on the local kids.

With the current state of both programs, my interest in college basketball heading into the fall is as low as it has been in quite some time. I am assuming I will get to more Chaminade games than either program.

[TheChosenOne]

Ummmm I see Cook as a huge loss for the Billikens. Unless you're don't want big meaty power forwards that dunk everything. What's wrong with you? Pistol, you, too. Happy Cook went to Iowa? I think it's a ###### terrible decision. I want every other school that's not SLU to lose every night. Pull it together you field day all-stars.

Cook definitely seems like a bigger loss than Sneed. I knew from the start that Cook was looking to get away for college, so I was prepared to miss on him. Plus I am really on the fence on him as a player, he has some definite limitations when he is not throwing down dunks on breakaways.

[slufan13]

Cook always seemed like the kind of guy who could be dominant in a conference like ours but overwhelmed in a conference like the Big 10

[doowop]

Cook definitely seems like a bigger loss than Sneed. I knew from the start that Cook was looking to get away for college, so I was prepared to miss on him. Plus I am really on the fence on him as a player, he has some definite limitations when he is not throwing down dunks on breakaways.

I definitely agree with your last sentence.

[ACE]

Cook was a primary target for Mizzou, so I don't think anyone could say that (probably could on Sneed). It is certainly a big miss for them regardless of what you think of Cook as he was a primary target and an in-state player. I do know that Cook was seen to want to get away for college from the beginning, so this is not overly surprising. Tate isn't really a young dynamic guy (played in the mid 90s), but obviously when you hire a guy who coaches a top in-state AAU program you would like to see that payoff with some recruits. I am assuming Tate sold his local connections, so he will likely have to deliver some talent over the next few years, although Kim Anderson may not be long for that job regardless. Tate was the lead recruiter on a 6'10 big from Arkansas that committed over the weekend though, so he does have that going for him.

This could be similar to what we are seeing at SLU. The assistant coach (Tate or Fulford at Mizzou or Cheaney at SLU) gets the recruit on campus and then the head coach is a big dud and the recruit commits elsewhere.

As a SLU grad (and huge fan since my time there) and lifelong Mizzou fan, it is sad to see both programs miss on the top local players and there is not much that would lead me to believe that will change over the next few years (Mizzou got kids like VanLeer and Puryear and SLU has a commitment from Moore, but those are not highly sought after players). Having seen guys like Cook and Sneed play I never saw them as program changing players, but it certainly hurts to miss on the local kids.

With the current state of both programs, my interest in college basketball heading into the fall is as low as it has been in quite some time. I am assuming I will get to more Chaminade games than either program.

The SPUMAC cheerleaders will be spinning it with Cook and will be touting how great their latest signing is. The "beat writer" said they offered Sneed, yet when the kid decides to go elsewhere he says Mizzou didn't really want him? So you offer a kid a scholarship you don't want? WHAT IF THE KID ACCEPTS THE OFFER? It logically makes no sense. I found it hilarious that the Mizzou beat writer/grad/cheerleader so quickly bought the spin the coaching staff was selling him.

[TheChosenOne]

The SPUMAC cheerleaders will be spinning it with Cook and will be touting how great their latest signing is. The "beat writer" said they offered Sneed, yet when the kid decides to go elsewhere he says Mizzou didn't really want him? So you offer a kid a scholarship you don't want? WHAT IF THE KID ACCEPTS THE OFFER? It logically makes no sense. I found it hilarious that the Mizzou beat writer/grad/cheerleader so quickly bought the spin the coaching staff was selling him.

I don't think anyone will spin Mizzou missing on Cook as anything but a negative for the program. It was pretty well known that he was a primary target for them. The program has also failed to sign players from Fulford's prep school Huntington (outside of Teki Gill-Caesar for one season), so the assistant coaching hires have not really paid off (again that may be on the head coach more than anything).

With Sneed though, I really do think Mizzou had cooled on him and had turned their focus onto some other wing players including Willie Jackson who they got a commitment from yesterday. All offers are not the same and I do think they got the wing they wanted, probably the only positive thing I could say about that program right now. Most Mizzou fans are as down on the program as they could be, so I don't think you will have to worry about many fans spinning things in favor of Mizzou.

[ACE]

I don't think anyone will spin Mizzou missing on Cook as anything but a negative for the program. It was pretty well known that he was a primary target for them. The program has also failed to sign players from Fulford's prep school Huntington (outside of Teki Gill-Caesar for one season), so the assistant coaching hires have not really paid off (again that may be on the head coach more than anything).

With Sneed though, I really do think Mizzou had cooled on him and had turned their focus onto some other wing players including Willie Jackson who they got a commitment from yesterday. All offers are not the same and I do think they got the wing they wanted, probably the only positive thing I could say about that program right now. Most Mizzou fans are as down on the program as they could be, so I don't think you will have to worry about many fans spinning things in favor of Mizzou.

Based on things you said on the past, I thought you were only a Mizzou football fan? Didn't realize you were also a fan of the basketball program.

I'm sure Mizzou didn't really want Sneed (even though they offered). Dave Matter got it right. The coaching staff must be grateful to have somebody in the media to spread their spin. Even Frank C, who is a fan of all things local and usually lobs softball questions, pressed Matter a couple of times on that point.

If a program makes an offer to a player it doesn't really want, that is stupid. What if the kid accepts? Mizzou got a commitment from the amazing Willie Jackson AFTER Sneed told them no several weeks ago. So what if Sneed (who they supposedly didn't really want) accepted the offer several weeks ago... they would have been stuck and unable to land the wing they REALLY wanted - the great Willie Jackson.

[TheChosenOne]

Based on things you said on the past, I thought you were only a Mizzou football fan? Didn't realize you were also a fan of the basketball program.

I'm sure Mizzou didn't really want Sneed (even though they offered). Dave Matter got it right. The coaching staff must be grateful to have somebody in the media to spread their spin. Even Frank C, who is a fan of all things local and usually lobs softball questions, pressed Matter a couple of times on that point.

If a program makes an offer to a player it doesn't really want, that is stupid. What if the kid accepts? Mizzou got a commitment from the amazing Willie Jackson AFTER Sneed told them no several weeks ago. So what if Sneed (who they supposedly didn't really want) accepted the offer several weeks ago... they would have been stuck and unable to land the wing they REALLY wanted - the great Willie Jackson.

Who cares? I don't think we need to go back and forth on this one any longer, we don't agree. I said what I said (apparently that is consistent with what Dave Matter has said) and I believe that to be the case. Mizzou cooled on Sneed while pursuing their other wing targets (landed one of those guys) and they completely failed by missing on Tyler Cook who was obviously a (if not the) top target.

I am a Mizzou fan in general and have been my whole life. Grew up more as a fan of their basketball program, but am now more a fan of the football program. It is really hard to be a fan of their basketball program at this point, but I still follow them (similar to SLU currently, but my fandom of SLU basketball is more diehard, so while I say my interest has declined in SLU, it really hasn't much and maybe just my enthusiasm for the program has).

[Dwayne's_World]

I am really interested to see how Cook and Sneed develop at the high-major level. I am not sure I see either as huge losses for the Billikens, but still disappointing to see the top local kids leave the state.

Doesn't seem like the program is growing any closer towards the point of actually being able to net some of the higher level local kids. In fact, I would wager that we almost seem to be moving in the opposite direction right now. Funny how the attitudes and perceptions of these kids towards a basketball program can change after the course of a single season....

[TheChosenOne]

Doesn't seem like the program is growing any closer towards the point of actually being able to net some of the higher level local kids. In fact, I would wager that we almost seem to be moving in the opposite direction right now. Funny how the attitudes and perceptions of these kids towards a basketball program can change after the course of a single season....

That is a good point and why missing on the top local kids is a concern regardless of what you think of them individually (we did offer both, but it is unclear how hard we pursued Sneed). It will be interesting to see how things develop for the top local 2017 and 2018 players and whether SLU has a shot at landing some of the more highly sought-after kids in those classes.

[moytoy12]

Cook would have been massive for SLU. In my opinion, I think getting him could have been equal to or greater than landing tatum based on the fact that Cook would have likely been at SLU for 4 years. I feel he had the possibility of being the 4-year local star player that helped the team tremendously on the court and in local recruiting. He would have been a huge get.

I'm not saying crews messed up as it seems we never had a shot at Cook, but Cook represents the type of 4 year local player that some argue (myself included) would have been on par with landing Tatum in terms of impact on the program.

[Cowboy]

Cook definitely seems like a bigger loss than Sneed. I knew from the start that Cook was looking to get away for college, so I was prepared to miss on him. Plus I am really on the fence on him as a player, he has some definite limitations when he is not throwing down dunks on breakaways.

I definitely agree with your last sentence.

-I am on this bus, too, but would have liked for him to Be A Billiken

[TheChosenOne]

-I am on this bus, too, but would have liked for him to Be A Billiken

Agree. Don't get me wrong, while questioning his ability a bit I still would have loved to see him at SLU and he would have improved our roster.

[Pistol]

Ummmm I see Cook as a huge loss for the Billikens. Unless you're don't want big meaty power forwards that dunk everything. What's wrong with you? Pistol, you, too. Happy Cook went to Iowa? I think it's a ###### terrible decision. I want every other school that's not SLU to lose every night. Pull it together you field day all-stars.

Cook was done with SLU a long time ago. We weren't one of his finalists and I don't think we were in the next tier down, either. So with that being the reality of the situation, I think Iowa will be the best fit for him of his finalists. (I'm a Chaminade alum, too, so if those guys aren't coming to SLU, I'd still like to see them do well.)

Would I have liked to see Cook at SLU? 100%, no question, absolutely. He's better than anyone on our roster.

It just never seemed like it was going to happen. I get the sense he's done with playing in Tatum's shadow after HS, and we were a finalist for Tatum. Not that we were wrong in pursuing him, but no one was going to land both of them.

[Pistol]

I look forward to seeing how the SPUMAC cheerleaders spin this one. I'm sure the P-D "beat writer" will be on the radio soon saying that Mizzou didn't really want Cook (even though they offered). I thought hiring the young hot shot assistant was going to help them land all the local AAU talent?

How is spin from the Mizzou cheerleaders any different from the spin from the SLU/Crews cheerleaders right now? Don't Mizzou fans have every right to laugh when they look at this board and see people predicting 18+ wins, saying our current young talent is strong, and crediting Crews' recruiting?

[brianstl]

Myself and the rest of this board would have been ecstatic if we would have landed Willie Jackson. I really don't get the point of trying to belittle the guy. If we land a kid that has solid current offers from BC, Iowa St., Iowa, Wisconsin, the Illini, and Minnesota this fall everyone on this board will be praising Crews for turning it around on the recruiting trail.

[ACE]

How is spin from the Mizzou cheerleaders any different from the spin from the SLU/Crews cheerleaders right now? Don't Mizzou fans have every right to laugh when they look at this board and see people predicting 18+ wins, saying our current young talent is strong, and crediting Crews' recruiting?

I don't see our beat writer going on the radio saying we didn't really want a recruit who we OFFERED, so I don't get the comparison. I haven't seen many 18+ win predictions or crediting of Crews' recruiting... most are either critical of it or taking a wait and see attitude to see if the core of young players develop in year 2. I certainly haven't praised his recruiting. I have said previously I thought it should have been better coming off of 3-straight trips to the Dance.

[TheA_Bomb]

How is spin from the Mizzou cheerleaders any different from the spin from the SLU/Crews cheerleaders right now? Don't Mizzou fans have every right to laugh when they look at this board and see people predicting 18+ wins, saying our current young talent is strong, and crediting Crews' recruiting?

This is just a sad statement from Pistol.

#1 all things SPUMAC suck, so there's that

#2 How is this different? ACE is curious as to the "journalists" that cover SPUMAC but are in fact just SPUMAC fans spinning the story for the school. Fans on this board being optimistic aren't paid for their opinions and definitely aren't generally claiming to be objective journalists. That's the different.

In summary stop being a tool hop on the Billiken Bus and cheer for the team.

[slufan13]

I think we're taking the whole "offered him but didn't really want him" thing way to literally. If you offer 2-3 kids at the same position, you certainly rank them in terms of priority/how bad you want them.

[ACE]

Who cares? I don't think we need to go back and forth on this one any longer, we don't agree. I said what I said (apparently that is consistent with what Dave Matter has said) and I believe that to be the case. Mizzou cooled on Sneed while pursuing their other wing targets (landed one of those guys) and they completely failed by missing on Tyler Cook who was obviously a (if not the) top target.

I am a Mizzou fan in general and have been my whole life. Grew up more as a fan of their basketball program, but am now more a fan of the football program. It is really hard to be a fan of their basketball program at this point, but I still follow them (similar to SLU currently, but my fandom of SLU basketball is more diehard, so while I say my interest has declined in SLU, it really hasn't much and maybe just my enthusiasm for the program has).

Well you cared enough to respond. I didn't realize you were so plugged into Mizzou basketball. So you know Mizzou "cooled" because Matter said so (Can you imagine Stu spinning for us like this)? Even Frank C. thought that sounded fishy. Based on the timeline, it appears Mizzou's interest in Sneed "cooled" right around the time it was becoming clear to them the kid wasn't interested. So they move on to another target. Maybe the kid they got turns out to be better, but the revisionist history about not wanting Sneed is disingenuous.

I understand programs have various degrees of interest in recruits and there is a big difference between "interest" and an offer. Of course, some offers are a greater priority than others, but why make an offer to a kid you aren't prepared to sign?

[Clock_Tower]

How is spin from the Mizzou cheerleaders any different from the spin from the SLU/Crews cheerleaders right now? Don't Mizzou fans have every right to laugh when they look at this board and see people predicting 18+ wins, saying our current young talent is strong, and crediting Crews' recruiting?

Pistol. If you need to take a break from Billiken basketball, please do so. You have always been a good fan and poster but now I wonder. Neither I nor anyone else are questioning your loyalty to the Billiken program or your being a fan of the Billikens. At the same time, if the words you type were said by anyone else, would we not consider them to be written by a troll? Again, I am stating or implying that you are a troll... but who is predicting 18+ wins, who is saying our current young talent is "strong" and who is "crediting Crews' recruiting"? You like to speak about strawmen... so is that what you are doing? If not, please list all these posters for us.

Maybe this is simply a case of certain groups (race, religion, etc.) being able to use words to describe their own which the rest of us are not allowed to use. Therefore, you are allowed to say these things but a Mizzou or VCU fan is not, and instead, is considered a troll. Who knows?

Are you really that exciting and happy to watch our program fail this year? And, of course, if our team fails, then you take credit for telling all us that you were right and we were wrong?

And just to be clear, if a fan on this Billikens.com board does honestly believe we will win 18+ wins, then they are not only a "SLU cheerleader" but also a "Crews cheerleader" and should rightfully be laughed at the Mizzou fans -- whom we all know and admit to them all being level-headed, honest and objective college basketball fans?

Good grief... please let this season start so that our team can either win 18+ and prove you wrong or so they can fail miserably as you predict and have you vindicated. Either way, can we just this over with?!?

[3star_recruit]

-I am on this bus, too, but would have liked for him to Be A Billiken

Just to put Cook's commitment in context, Steve Alford wasn't able to land one Top 100 big man in the eight years he was at Iowa. And he was an above average recruiter. Even at solid Big Ten 10 programs, it's hard to get blue chip big men. It's really, really hard for an A-10 team, let alone one who's had one exciting post player in the last 20 years.

If we could manage to bring in a 6'7 leaper with good hands, that would be a significant upgrade over the status quo.

[Pistol]

I don't see our beat writer going on the radio saying we didn't really want a recruit who we OFFERED, so I don't get the comparison. I haven't seen many 18+ win predictions or crediting of Crews' recruiting... most are either critical of it or taking a wait and see attitude to see if the core of young players develop in year 2. I certainly haven't praised his recruiting. I have said previously I thought it should have been better coming off of 3-straight trips to the Dance.

This is just a sad statement from Pistol.

#1 all things SPUMAC suck, so there's that

#2 How is this different? ACE is curious as to the "journalists" that cover SPUMAC but are in fact just SPUMAC fans spinning the story for the school. Fans on this board being optimistic aren't paid for their opinions and definitely aren't generally claiming to be objective journalists. That's the different.

In summary stop being a tool hop on the Billiken Bus and cheer for the team.

Just to clarify the core argument here: Unrealistic optimism when it is applied to Mizzou basketball is ridiculous and we should show outrage whenever it appears. Unrealistic optimism as applied to SLU is not just okay, but necessary to the degree that those who don't agree are "tools."

Got it.

If they're Mizzou fans regardless of whether they're journalists or not doing the positive spin on something bad, isn't it the same as our fans spinning things positively? We just lack the good fortune of a big journalism school that feeds our local rag. If we had those journalist-cheerleaders at the paper, you'd all love them.

I know it's hard to admit when you're being hypocritical, guys, but come on. I'm no Mizzou fan but let's not kid ourselves. Both programs are in the dumps right now and there are people on both sides grasping at any rays of sunshine.

[ACE]

Just to clarify the core argument here: Unrealistic optimism when it is applied to Mizzou basketball is ridiculous and we should show outrage whenever it appears. Unrealistic optimism as applied to SLU is not just okay, but necessary to the degree that those who don't agree are "tools."

Got it.

If they're Mizzou fans regardless of whether they're journalists or not doing the positive spin on something bad, isn't it the same as our fans spinning things positively? We just lack the good fortune of a big journalism school that feeds our local rag. If we had those journalist-cheerleaders at the paper, you'd all love them.

I know it's hard to admit when you're being hypocritical, guys, but come on. I'm no Mizzou fan but let's not kid ourselves. Both programs are in the dumps right now and there are people on both sides grasping at any rays of sunshine.

What is hypocritical? You don't see a lot of spin coming from me about the recruiting of our program and I don't see a lot of people on this board really excited about it either. Again, some are taking a bit of a wait and see approach with how our young players develop - not exactly "a ray of sunshine" outlook. Don't worry, if we are a bottom tier A-10 team again this year, I will be joining you with the pitchforks, but I'm at least willing to let this season start to play out.

I mentioned SPUMAC because they recently hired an AAU coach who was touted because it was thought that he would help land some of the players he had ties with. When he whiffs on the first one (Sneed) who they later spin they were not interested in, they then say Cook is really the one they want. Another miss. I haven't seen anyone spinning our recruiting misses recently, and especially members of the media, so I don't get the comparison you are trying to draw with SLU.

[Cowboy]

I look forward to seeing how the SPUMAC cheerleaders spin this one. I'm sure the P-D "beat writer" will be on the radio soon saying that Mizzou didn't really want Cook (even though they offered). I thought hiring the young hot shot assistant was going to help them land all the local AAU talent?

-did this "beat writer cheerleader not really want a kid" happen more than once?