Recruiting - 2014

[b.hayes]

Good thoughts by my dude, BH. Stupendous. Can't wait to grab some Pappy's next time your in town. #foodie #journoprobs

(The above is sarcasm)

#blessed

See you on Sunday for a late afternoon snack on my way back from KC.

[ACE]

Sad to say but we lost this recruit because of the conference we play in. We beat Butler on him if they are still in the A10.

Yep, the conference thing stinks and will cost us with some recruits. Take that away and SLU should be a more attractive destination than Butler. I thought the kid would have been an excellent fit. This is a bummer, but not the end of the world. As somebody pointed out - our friend NH thinks the sky is falling just about every time we miss a recruit. It is going to happen. The key is, you cast a wide net and make sure you have a lot of good options - and it seems like we still do. It's early... not like we are in late spring with the talent pool shrinking. There is still time to get a couple more for the fall.

[brianstl]

Yeah Butler doesn't have that playing in two national championship games recently thing going for it.

[Old guy]

With the number of transfers taking place in the spring, there should be enough kids available to fill our needs, even if we do not get all we want in the fall.

[William Iken]

With the number of transfers taking place in the spring, there should be enough kids available to fill our needs, even if we do not get all we want in the fall.

Good point, and that will spread out the class a bit too. The glass is still half-full.

[ACE]

Yeah Butler doesn't have that playing in two national championship games recently thing going for it.

And more recently, they followed it up with a season where they had an rpi of 114 and the next season where they were beat three times by our little Billikens. The players and now the coach from those Final Four appearances are gone. Don't get me wrong, they certainly got a lot of mileage out of those appearances and they wouldn't be in the Big East without them. I'm actually surprised at how little the two Final Fours has helped their recruiting. You take away Clarke (a one-year transfer) and last year's roster is mediocre. They are projected to finish near the bottom of the BE, so the present doesn't look so great. I'm skeptical that Miller will be able get Butler back close to the Stevens glory days.

[cheeseman]

Martin according many was a prime target and to lose him is not good no matter how some now want to spin it. What is disappointing is that we lost to Butler even after they lost their big name coach - reminds me of the kid that BS was after and he still signed with Iowa even not knowing who the coach was going to be. I understand that we can not get every kid but we have to start hitting on our remaining targets. Yes there will be Spring transfer available but we only got 1 this spring even though we had 2 schollies to give so no assurances that we will get all these transfers some are alluding to. We are now about a month away from the signing period and the clock is ticking. I have said this before - we need to get 2 more quality players this fall and while it is still possible I would rather have this commit and only needing to work one one - I still would prefer to fill all three but it is looking less likely as time passes.

[slu72]

The fact he tweeted, "Big East bound", is very telling. We have got to get invited by hook or by crook. I hope the President vacancy isn't going to work against us. Get the new guy/gal in there ASAP.

[brianstl]

And more recently, they followed it up with a season where they had an rpi of 114 and the next season where they were beat three times by our little Billikens. The players and now the coach from those Final Four appearances are gone. Don't get me wrong, they certainly got a lot of mileage out of those appearances and they wouldn't be in the Big East without them. I'm actually surprised at how little the two Final Fours has helped their recruiting. You take away Clarke (a one-year transfer) and last year's roster is mediocre. They are projected to finish near the bottom of the BE, so the present doesn't look so great. I'm skeptical that Miller will be able get Butler back close to the Stevens glory days.

How many kids do you think are checking out Butlers RPI rating before making their decision? All of these kids remember watching Butler play in those two games.

Losing Martin is more than a Big East vs. A10 thing. It isn't like we lost the kid to DePaul.

[brianstl]

Martin according many was a prime target and to lose him is not good no matter how some now want to spin it. What is disappointing is that we lost to Butler even after they lost their big name coach - reminds me of the kid that BS was after and he still signed with Iowa even not knowing who the coach was going to be. I understand that we can not get every kid but we have to start hitting on our remaining targets. Yes there will be Spring transfer available but we only got 1 this spring even though we had 2 schollies to give so no assurances that we will get all these transfers some are alluding to. We are now about a month away from the signing period and the clock is ticking. I have said this before - we need to get 2 more quality players this fall and while it is still possible I would rather have this commit and only needing to work one one - I still would prefer to fill all three but it is looking less likely as time passes.

And SLU didn't just recently lose a big name coach?

[JMM28]

Martin according many was a prime target and to lose him is not good no matter how some now want to spin it. What is disappointing is that we lost to Butler even after they lost their big name coach - reminds me of the kid that BS was after and he still signed with Iowa even not knowing who the coach was going to be. I understand that we can not get every kid but we have to start hitting on our remaining targets. Yes there will be Spring transfer available but we only got 1 this spring even though we had 2 schollies to give so no assurances that we will get all these transfers some are alluding to. We are now about a month away from the signing period and the clock is ticking. I have said this before - we need to get 2 more quality players this fall and while it is still possible I would rather have this commit and only needing to work one one - I still would prefer to fill all three but it is looking less likely as time passes.

Where to start...

1. Crews and company signed Agbeko, Ash, and Lancona this spring. So they had 4 scholarships to give and used 3. There was supposedly another transfer they had that has fallen through.

2. We will never know why a recruit chose a school over another. It doesn't mean that Crews is somehow failing because a supposed top target chose Butler over SLU. Especially one that lives just down the road from Butler.

3. Right now they have verbals from Roby, Gillmann, and Bartley. That is a pretty strong fall period so far. Expecting to get 5 is a pipe dream and probably not in the best interest of the program unless a top recruit wants to sign in November. They are better off picking up 1 more, going into the Spring with 2 or 3 and evaluating where the program is at.

Another thing about the spring is the juco route is a lot more available. Many of the juco guys wait or are held back from committing in the fall. If Crews decides he needs to fill a spot with a juco (very likely), he will need to have a scholarship or two open for the spring. How the remaining players develop is also an issue. If Manning and Glaze blow up, the need for a juco big lessens. If they don't, Crews might have to go after a juco big. Same with Crawford, Agbeko, etc.

I will never understand the hand wringing over losing a recruit. Martin could be the next Gordon Hayward or the next Obi Ikeakor. Like brian said, we lost a recruit to Butler- not DePaul.

[ACE]

How many kids do you think are checking out Butlers RPI rating before making their decision? All of these kids remember watching Butler play in those two games.

Losing Martin is more than a Big East vs. A10 thing. It isn't like we lost the kid to DePaul.

Well the kid has tweeted about the Big East and his dad specifically mentioned it.

[brianstl]

Well the kid has tweeted about the Big East and his dad specifically mentioned it.

If it was just about the Big East why didn't he pick Providence or X who, also offered him? Why did SLU get to his final group of schools and not Providence?

[Cowboy]

I will never understand the hand wringing over losing a recruit. Martin could be the next Gordon Hayward or the next Obi Ikeakor. Like brian said, we lost a recruit to Butler- not DePaul.

-not sure I am hand wringing but Martin was a highly regarded prospect, do all highly regarded prospects develop into great or even good players in college? no, but i'll take my chances on a highly regarded prospect versus not and to my knowledge we are not in the mix on very many prospects at this level

-but I have faith in the staff that they will fill our roster with players that will contribute to many wins

[Clock_Tower]

And more recently, they followed it up with a season where they had an rpi of 114 and the next season where they were beat three times by our little Billikens. The players and now the coach from those Final Four appearances are gone. Don't get me wrong, they certainly got a lot of mileage out of those appearances and they wouldn't be in the Big East without them. I'm actually surprised at how little the two Final Fours has helped their recruiting. You take away Clarke (a one-year transfer) and last year's roster is mediocre. They are projected to finish near the bottom of the BE, so the present doesn't look so great. I'm skeptical that Miller will be able get Butler back close to the Stevens glory days.

Exactly. +1

They did, however, sign Ed McCauleys grandson and we all know how great NH thinks that kid is. Ask NH and I am sure he would say that that he is better than Hayward, et al.!!

[ACE]

If it was just about the Big East why didn't he pick Providence or X who, also offered him? Why did SLU get to his final group of schools and not Providence?

Because Bronson specifically made a very strong impression on him among other things. We had enough to get in the final two. But ultimately, conference affiliation was a big DECIDING factor. If you don't believe me, take it from his dad. Also, Butler is a hell of lot closer than Providence and that also seemed to be a consideration.

[Clock_Tower]

The fact he tweeted, "Big East bound", is very telling. We have got to get invited by hook or by crook. I hope the President vacancy isn't going to work against us. Get the new guy/gal in there ASAP.

So if a SLU recruits tweets "A10 bound" then our conference affiliation is the determining factor?!? Not our program, our recent winning history, our coaches/staff, our players?? Good stuff!!

And remember, SLU was in the Great Midwest and Conf USA while X (A10) and Creighton (Valley) was going to the NCAA Tourney and we were sitting home. Conference affiliation is definitely important but having winning program, a good coach, good facilities and making the Tourney is more important.

Yes, I want to join the Big East -- but waiting a few years to continue to develop, to continue to win, to continue to recruit will make us better in the long run rather. Remember, we want to win in the Big East, not tread water and be middle of the pack hoping for upsets like we did in the Great Midwest/Conference USA.

[Taj79]

No one item of influence/decision sits in absentia; they are all inter-related and all have different weights for different kids. Frankly, if it were me, and I wanted the "Big East" I would select Georgetown, Marquette and Nova, in that order. Of course, neither of those three are a two-hour drive from home where mom and dad and the family can come see the kid play. If that were MY deciding factor,it's Nova hand's down.

To me, a key here will be the "same ol', same ol'." We all remember Charlie and LoRo and Brad being the bridesmaid and never the bride. There never seemed to be a Plan B or Plan B was rejects like Adkins, Cranford, Caswell, Varner, Maguire, Mitchell and Knollmeyer. For whatever reason, and Rick had some failures, Majerus had enough in the tank to move on. What will Crews' legacy be? I've seen similar hopes fade on Quentin Richardson, Pete Mickeal, Nick Kern, Ryan Hollins and Tyler Griffey. It always seems to be "when are we going to land one of these Top 100 guys?' Cruelly, the answer appears to be never.

Which is okay PROVIDING you are good enough to find diamonds in the rough and polish them under your tutelage and system into a well-honed machine. I like to think we saw that with Rick. Crews seemed to do it with Rick's kids. Can/will he sustain that? The question in Athlon's remains: will Crews' recruits do the trick?

No need to panic. Roby and Bartley seem like good guards. If Agbeko and Lancona work out on the blocks, it should be okay. As for those crying the "we need ot be in the Big East" tears, maybe, maybe not. Being in the Big East has done nothing for DePaul. Nothing for Providence. Little for St. John's. Yes, I'd like to be there too but I am not sure it is the pancea some make it out to be.

[brianstl]

Because Bronson specifically made a very strong impression on him among other things. We had enough to get in the final two. But ultimately, conference affiliation was a big DECIDING factor. If you don't believe me, take it from his dad. Also, Butler is a hell of lot closer than Providence and that also seemed to be a consideration.

These two article don't make it sound like the conference was the deciding factor.

http://blogs.indystar.com/butler/2013/10/07/kelan-martin-makes-the-call-hes-a-bulldog/

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20131007/SPORTS/310070092/Recruiting-Insider-Ballard-High-s-Kelan-Martin-commits-Butler-basketball?nclick_check=1

[NextYearBill]

I think it came down to Butler having nicer shirts in their gift shop. I knew that was going to come back and bite us one day

[ACE]

These two article don't make it sound like the conference was the deciding factor.

http://blogs.indystar.com/butler/2013/10/07/kelan-martin-makes-the-call-hes-a-bulldog/

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20131007/SPORTS/310070092/Recruiting-Insider-Ballard-High-s-Kelan-Martin-commits-Butler-basketball?nclick_check=1

There are other articles. But go ahead, don't believe me or the guy who interviewed the kid or the kid's dad who indicated that it was very close and then went on to say "He really liked that they (Butler) were in the Big East."

[brianstl]

There are other articles. But go ahead, don't believe me or the guy who interviewed the kid or the kid's dad who indicated that it was very close and then went on to say "He really liked that they (Butler) were in the Big East."

Whisc isn't saying the Big East was the deciding factor. Both those articles interviewed the kid and the dad. Look, I know what Ben's article states and if you want to believe that is the main reason he choose SLU go ahead. I am sure you believe it when a girl tells you "Its me, not you" when she breaks up with you, too.

Look, was the Big East a factor? It was one of many. If SLU was in the Big East would he have ended up at SLU? I am not buying that.

[RiseAndGrind]

Ok enough with the bickering. We have Mayimba visiting this weekend and he will commit shortly thereafter. Then we can get a big or get Patterson to change his mind abt LSU.

We good

[ACE]

Whisc isn't saying the Big East was the deciding factor. Both those articles interviewed the kid and the dad. Look, I know what Ben's article states and if you want to believe that is the main reason he choose SLU go ahead. I am sure you believe it when a girl tells you "Its me, not you" when she breaks up with you, too.

Look, was the Big East a factor? It was one of many. If SLU was in the Big East would he have ended up at SLU? I am not buying that.

Huh?!? Why is that reason so hard to believe? It makes sense. Glad you know the real reason and everybody else is just lying or believing the lie.

[slu72]

So if a SLU recruits tweets "A10 bound" then our conference affiliation is the determining factor?!? Not our program, our recent winning history, our coaches/staff, our players?? Good stuff!!

And remember, SLU was in the Great Midwest and Conf USA while X (A10) and Creighton (Valley) was going to the NCAA Tourney and we were sitting home. Conference affiliation is definitely important but having winning program, a good coach, good facilities and making the Tourney is more important.

Yes, I want to join the Big East -- but waiting a few years to continue to develop, to continue to win, to continue to recruit will make us better in the long run rather. Remember, we want to win in the Big East, not tread water and be middle of the pack hoping for upsets like we did in the Great Midwest/Conference USA.

Clock, we've got a lot more going for us these days than back then. New arena, NCAA appearances, big donor, etc. I tend towards the belief kids want to go where the lights are brightest and that's in the power conferences. Right now the Beast is considered to be a power conference because of their glorious past. Granted most of the schools that created that past are gone, but they've still got some good brand names.

I'm really pleased with the job JCs done in our recruiting, but it will be easier to land the Martins of the world when (no ifs allowed) we're in the Beast.