JMM28 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I'm not going to pretend that I've read this entire thread. But a random thought regarding finding a new coach. I was randomly watching UIC (I'm from Chicago) play because I've heard they are supposed to be solid this year. Towards the end of the game, Dave Kaplan (who I generally don't like, but he knows his baksetball) started praising/talking about their third year head coach, Howard Moore. Here's his school profile: http://www.uicflames.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/moore_howard00.html Now, I'm not saying this is an actual candidate for the HC position. And I'm not suggesting we should be the school to give a guy like this his first crack at a HC position But I hope we make a smart decision and recruit someone like him: a motivated upstart head coach with proven ties to STL, a successful history of recruiting, and has been exposed to various playing styles / successful coaches. An expensive, splashy signing like RM is great for publicity. However, I am doubtful we can get lucky and "buy" success / relevance a second time with a big name coach. RM - in that regard - was pretty unique [motivation, commitment to SLU / not having a family / big life outside coaching, basketball IQ]. Also, off topic - but I recently saw a movie and there was about a two minute SLU ad. I didn't know we were spending such money to recruit students from Chicago. I wouldn't mind Howard Moore actually at all. Midwest guy, Chicago native, played at UWMadison, and has UIC humming along nicely so far. Good recruiter. I don't think there's enough consistent talent in the stl area to justify hiring a local guy based on just that. The 2nd and 3rd tier Chicago guys are superior to the first tier of StL recruits. And regarding the movie theater ads - the terrible marketing decisions don't stop with the athletic department. Those movie theater ads are terribly expensive for the 5 people a day you reach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJumpUp Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 We can name coaches in every category that have been succesful and ones that have failed. Lower level D1 coaches move up and fail all the time, as do top asst's getting promoted to their 1st hc job. I've said it before, I don't care if he's an asst getting his 1st job or a smaller mid major moving up. Find the right guy who is a fit at SLU both on the court and academically. If we can end up in the right conference, with the right coach, who can recruit the right players, our future may look alright. Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kappy96 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 i hope the billikens take a hard look at lower D1 and D2 successful coaches. while taking an assistant from a top program that has been an ultra successful recruiter, let's not forget that recruiting to a top D1 school is no where near the same experience as recruiting to a Saint Louis University. some of those big schools recruit themselves. i always think of pretty q when someone yearns for an assistant. I also question taking a recyled head coach that is coming off a firing. they were fired because they couldnt keep up. it's a reach to expect them to now be able to do such. the very successful head coach at a lower level has had to succeed with no name recognition, no budget, horrible schedules, etc. one would hope that coach with an increased budget, a higher visibility conference and schedule might be the perfect guy to break out. let's not forget that coach k was the Army coach before going to Duke, Bo Ryan labored a lot of years as a lower level head coach before getting to Wisconsin, even majerus had his time at ball state before getting the utah job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kappy96 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Well said Broy. Stilll navigating the features of my new phone and quoted your post without commenting the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 it just seems to me that the first and foremost job of the head coach is to teach basketball and second to administer the program. rickma wasnt really as much a recruiter as a final decision maker. the recruiting was pretty much porter moser and then later harriman. no denying rickma made recruiting decisions. but i doubt he was the guy night after night reaching out to the kids and aau coaches. my point is i would rather have an experienced head coach who has the confidence in directing an operation playing the go between with the AD and school administration and surrounding himself with outstanding recruiting assistants. i believe that hiring someone that has already done that, granted on a lesser basis, at a lower level, is more prepared to move up the ladder than some assistant that has never made game, practice and administrative decisions before and likely is only getting considered because he found the next great kid and smoozed him to go to an upper level school. not saying one of those assistants couldnt be great. izzo was an assistant. crean was an assistant. roy williams was an assistant. so it could work. but i think the chances are longer with the assistant then it is with a lower level already seasoned head coach. not as sexy. but listen to that guy's vision. see how he plans to follow the monster footprints of rickma, and then judge from there. of course if some up and comer is assured of bringing two or three top 50 kids with him, i might listen a little more intently. but honestly, that will be a tough task to accomplish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David King Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 No doubt many former assistant coaches have made great coaches, and there are several assistant coaches today who will be great head coaches in the future. There are also several who will be bad coaches. I'm not sure SLU administartion is capable of evaluating the talent to determine which is which. I agree with Roy, that a recently fired coach is not ideal either. especially if they got fired for losing.- Capel, Wright, among others. A current coach from a lesser league with a proven track record is a better choice than the above two. A Gregg Marshall might be interested in a large pay raise when SLU moves to the Big East. Best of all is to follow the proven "Majerus Model". Hire an old school guy, proven winner, semi-retired. somebody who can jump right in and take over next years talent-filled veteran team. Gary Williams or Bobby Knight would be awesome but very unlikely. PJ Carlesimo is young, at 62 or 63 y.o. I'll bet he'd love to get back to the Big East. Of all potential coaches mentioned, PJ Carlesimo gives the highest probability of short-term success. Just like RM, we should be able to count on him for 5 yrs, or so. Unlike, RM, he'd inherit a program in pretty good shape,and he should winn immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 No doubt many former assistant coaches have made great coaches, and there are several assistant coaches today who will be great head coaches in the future. There are also several who will be bad coaches. I'm not sure SLU administartion is capable of evaluating the talent to determine which is which. I agree with Roy, that a recently fired coach is not ideal either. especially if they got fired for losing.- Capel, Wright, among others. A current coach from a lesser league with a proven track record is a better choice than the above two. A Gregg Marshall might be interested in a large pay raise when SLU moves to the Big East. Best of all is to follow the proven "Majerus Model". Hire an old school guy, proven winner, semi-retired. somebody who can jump right in and take over next years talent-filled veteran team. Gary Williams or Bobby Knight would be awesome but very unlikely. PJ Carlesimo is young, at 62 or 63 y.o. I'll bet he'd love to get back to the Big East. Of all potential coaches mentioned, PJ Carlesimo gives the highest probability of short-term success. Just like RM, we should be able to count on him for 5 yrs, or so. Unlike, RM, he'd inherit a program in pretty good shape,and he should winn immediately. If we stay in the A-10, no way we get a guy like Marshall. If we are in, I would think a guy like him definitely becomes a possibility. I think there could also possibly be a guy from a low level BCS program where there isn't a big commitment to building a winner, to actually jump into this league where bball is king. Will we know if we are in by the end of this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 If we stay in the A-10, no way we get a guy like Marshall. If we are in, I would think a guy like him definitely becomes a possibility. I think there could also possibly be a guy from a low level BCS program where there isn't a big commitment to building a winner, to actually jump into this league where bball is king. Will we know if we are in by the end of this season? Marshall is a south eastern kinda guy. I would imagine him taking the next good SEC position or ACC position that comes open. I don't see him going from Wichita to St Louis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 If we stay in the A-10, no way we get a guy like Marshall. If we are in, I would think a guy like him definitely becomes a possibility. I think there could also possibly be a guy from a low level BCS program where there isn't a big commitment to building a winner, to actually jump into this league where bball is king. Will we know if we are in by the end of this season? -big time question, I don't know, I suspect a lot of work to be done by the 7, and their lawyers, to get to the point where the invites are extened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Damn, if Jerry Tarkanian wasn't a million years old, we'd have our guy. The man won a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP at a non-BCS school. That's enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NH Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Damn, if Jerry Tarkanian wasn't a million years old, we'd have our guy. The man won a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP at a non-BCS school. That's enough for me. I hope Roy is still alive after reading this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 If we can end up in the right conference, with the right coach, who can recruit the right players, our future may look alright. Right? If the HC or the AD say so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I hope Roy is still alive after reading this. i consider the source. busted has long advocated winning at any cost/method. luckily that kind of "winning" will never be tolerated at saint louis university. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 i consider the source. busted has long advocated winning at any cost/method. luckily that kind of "winning" will never be tolerated at saint louis university. Because losing's better? They'll probably get a coach that makes all of us happy. Now that would be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 if you aint cheatin, you aint tryin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Because losing's better? They'll probably get a coach that makes all of us happy. Now that would be awesome. no i just think we should be able to win with true student athletes and without cheating or cutting corners. what tark accomplished was a sham to college athletics and exagerated the problem of non student athletes to the nth degree. there are many coaches that are successful without resorting to illiterate athletes that dont go to classes and get paid in cash and prizes, etc. to "immortalize" tark for his supposed accomplishment is nothing short of saying you would be proud to be the fan of the memphis grizzlies winning the ncaa tourney. btw, i think it is ironic that you can put a tribute quote to the likes of conklin and cassity in your signature and then mention tark. nothing could more diametrically opposed that true student athletes like conk and cassity and jerry tarkanian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 no i just think we should be able to win with true student athletes and without cheating or cutting corners. what tark accomplished was a sham to college athletics and exagerated the problem of non student athletes to the nth degree. there are many coaches that are successful without resorting to illiterate athletes that dont go to classes and get paid in cash and prizes, etc. to "immortalize" tark for his supposed accomplishment is nothing short of saying you would be proud to be the fan of the memphis grizzlies winning the ncaa tourney. btw, i think it is ironic that you can put a tribute quote to the likes of conklin and cassity in your signature and then mention tark. nothing could more diametrically opposed that true student athletes like conk and cassity and jerry tarkanian. I really liked BC and KC for all they did. That said, I like winning. A lot. Like I've told you before, if we can win the "right way", great. That's awesome. Jerry Tarkanian is 82 years old. He's not coming here. I just want a guy who's going to come in here and win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJumpUp Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 If the HC or the AD say so. Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I really liked BC and KC for all they did. That said, I like winning. A lot. Like I've told you before, if we can win the "right way", great. That's awesome. Jerry Tarkanian is 82 years old. He's not coming here. I just want a guy who's going to come in here and win. i know he isnt coming. the likes of him wouldnt have been offered the job the day after he won his championship. and no one of his ilk is coming here in the future either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyKen Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 "I also question taking a recyled head coach that is coming off a firing. they were fired because they couldnt keep up. it's a reach to expect them to now be able to do such." Billiken Roy comment That depends on the coach. Not all coaches are fired because they cannot keep up. E.g. Kelvin Sampson. Kelvin also had one of those violations that really isn't so bad. It isn't like his people took the SAT's for his guys or that he beat some kid. He simply contacted recruits too much. Just have your AD monitor that ###### and give the man a second chance. I know there is the quote function, just thought I could quote a particular line rather than an entire post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I'll be graduating soon and I don't have a job lined up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I'll be graduating soon and I don't have a job lined up But in all seriousness, I think Tanner Bronson is going to get a look. I know he's still really young but he was around Majerus' system for a year. He's with Crews now. The guys seem to like him and he could be important to help keep current players around. Both Bo Ryan and Majerus have both praised him and his future many times. I think he was an assistant in the D-League for a year. If you watch the bench during the game, he seems to be calling the inbounds plays and other offensive set-ups mid game a lot. I've also seen him take charge of the huddle during games. I'm not saying he's the best choice but I think he will get an interview and I think he should be considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk18 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I wouldn't mind Howard Moore actually at all. Midwest guy, Chicago native, played at UWMadison, and has UIC humming along nicely so far. Good recruiter. I don't think there's enough consistent talent in the stl area to justify hiring a local guy based on just that. The 2nd and 3rd tier Chicago guys are superior to the first tier of StL recruits. And regarding the movie theater ads - the terrible marketing decisions don't stop with the athletic department. Those movie theater ads are terribly expensive for the 5 people a day you reach. I think he would be a great coach. UIC is top 25 in RPI and top of Horizon league. They came within 6 points or so of New Mexico. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedtheblue Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I think he would be a great coach. UIC is top 25 in RPI and top of Horizon league. They came within 6 points or so of New Mexico. I like Moore too. From the neighborhood I grew up in Chicago. Played and coached at the neighborhood high school. Would help with recruiting Chicago a little bit more with his connection to the Chicago Public League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BACKHANDtheRICAN Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 But in all seriousness, I think Tanner Bronson is going to get a look. I know he's still really young but he was around Majerus' system for a year. He's with Crews now. The guys seem to like him and he could be important to help keep current players around. Both Bo Ryan and Majerus have both praised him and his future many times. I think he was an assistant in the D-League for a year. If you watch the bench during the game, he seems to be calling the inbounds plays and other offensive set-ups mid game a lot. I've also seen him take charge of the huddle during games. I'm not saying he's the best choice but I think he will get an interview and I think he should be considered. Pass me some of that grass you're smoking. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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