Father biondi - vote of no confidence

[HusakAttack]

Getting in late on this one and read the slides from the link of why SLU is in horrible financial standing. I would like to know where this person got their data. Anyone who believes the average university endowment has increased 80% from 2001 to 2011 - through one large recession and one massive economy-crippling recession - is just a fool. No way around that...

[Deutschkind]

Maybe I'm not looking at this right, but as a current student that's going to graduate soon, I really just want SLU to have a high ranking so my degree looks better. Biondi promised top 50 and it's moving in the opposite direction and a pretty dramatic pace. I honestly couldn't care less about the endowment numbers or tenured professors or whatever. This is a time where the administration and faculty are both being selfish so as a student I am too. Give me a ranking that is moving up. That's not happening now so something has to change.

Question to the older guys on the board: How much does your college degree affect getting a job? I'm an undergrad as well. Someone once told me that after your first job, employers really only look at your job experience. Is that true?

[cheeseman]

Look, no one is saying that Biondi does not deserve credit for much but the problem comes when the institution seems to be stagnating. This is not uncommon when someone has been at the helm of a company or institution for a very long time - it takes a rare individual to avoid this from happening. It is not that that person should be kicked aside but is this not like the aging athlete who won't recognize that his time has passed and retire so the team can move forward? Biondi was a superstar no doubt but he can not hit the fast ball anymore so it may be time for him to hang up his cleats and take the adulation he has coming and become a respected figure that he is and should be. Does he really want to spend the last 2-3 years in a constant fight or should he be a valuable resource that continues to help and not hurt.

[TheChosenOne]

You can find a heck of a lot of instances throughout history where a band of people agitated for change, effectively managed the media of the time, and effected a change...and the result was a disaster. Just because people are loud does not mean that their approach is right or that it will lead to a better outcome. I am not saying that it might not be time for Biondi to move on, but the way this war is being waged is dragging down everyone, not just Fr. Biondi.

One more small point that really irks me. When these tenured teachers complain about no raises. HELLO - are they aware of the term "the lost decade"?!!?! Many people are unemployed and more are under-employed. A lot of those who are working, are worried about their jobs. Very few people in my industry have had a raise in the past five and even ten years let alone in the past year. And a lot of people have seen their pay drop, in come cases dramatically. Now, I know many of the professors and I know that it is definitely not all of them that are whining, but those who are the loudest on this subject are kind of embarrassing themselves.

Maybe this is the only way to bring this man down. He does not exactly welcome those to disagree or challenge him. Good luck attracting and retaining quality employees and professors without any raises while continuing to raise tuition and spending money on such things as building a hotel which certainly had to be on the top of the list of needs for the students and professors. Biondi has lost focus on what the goal of a University and specifically a Jesuit University should be and I think it is finally catching up to him.

I am at the point where I don't give a f what the man did 20 years ago, the focus needs to be on what he is doing now.

[TheChosenOne]

some of you are too young to even know what the university looked like prior to Father Biondi. and i am not just talking about streets, buildings and statues. the whole picture. you all may want to take some time to review the facts father biondi presented in his letter.

Why should we care? Ok fine, we can have a statue of him erected and give him a lifetime achievement award before we send him on his way.

[Taj79]

The worth of my degree based on the name is an interesting question. I've never found it helpful or hindering. As noted, I got out in 1979 and stayed in St. Loo until 1988. Not one job interview that I remember (now, there's a lot of lost brain cells in there too) ever asked or noted Saint Louis University as a pro or con. All the degree seemed to do was get me through the door. After that, make or break was all on me. Maybe there are some degrees looked more fondly on locally --- business, law, medical, etc. --- but once outside the confines of those degrees and the local area, I am not sure. Face it, without a degree of some sort, the door to even get in is closed. Once in, it's all on you. I'm on the east coast now and no one out here has ever heard of Saint Louis U as far as I can tell. If they have, the only question I get is "what the hell is a billiken?"

Everyone you talk to will more likely comment more emotionally on a bad issue than a good. But its all subjective. The rankings are subjective. We see that in the AP/USAToday/ESPN polls on basketball. What makes a World News and Reports ranking different? College is what you make it. I tried to pass that on to my kids because I certainly didn't understand it way back then. Best years of your life. You can never know that until you look back and to look back you have to get there. Only then can one truly understand.

You can't please everyone all the time and leaders have to make hard choices. That's why athletes should never read the sports pages. I was there with roy and there certainly were no palm trees, water fountains, pools, green space and athletic facilities on campus. The only break in the drab of the inner city was the frats and folks painting West Pine in front of Griesedieck. I lived in LacledeTown for three months and slept there like three times. Thank god I had a girlfriend with an understanding family. A homeless guy attacked my roommate in front of the old Woolworths just north of Lindell on Grand for a cigarette. A kid was killed at a party in Lacledetown in an apartement right on Compton --- you didn't need to "go into" Lacledetown to find trouble.

Biondi was good for the University. But time marches on and change is inevitable. I have no beef with the man so I have no emotiuonal collateral in this discussion. He stays -- fine. He goes --- fine.

As a hiring official, I'd look at your degree and then delve into more of what you did while getting that degree. Frats. Clubs. Organizations. Jobs. How you handle things in terms o fhow well prepared you are also counts. I'm also old-fashioned so appearance and dress and the like speak volumes. Non-verbals are also key; those things you can't bluff. The degree gets you a seat at the table.

[jbizzle09]

Question to the older guys on the board: How much does your college degree affect getting a job? I'm an undergrad as well. Someone once told me that after your first job, employers really only look at your job experience. Is that true?

In my experience, that is mostly true. I am not sure of the actual numbers, but I do know that there are a large number of people that have degrees in one field but end up working in an entirely different field. I know that I am one of that number. Also, there are degrees that are very field specific, and other degrees that are more general. In terms of hiring, a degree is always a boost, especially one from a prestigious university. And in terms of entry-level positions, it will almost always give you the edge over other candidates. However, the further up the food chain you go, the more job experience tends to be what the hiring party looks at.

[2010andBeyond]

I completely understand why you'd feel that way and if I were in your place I'd probably feel the same.

But from my experience, which is in the business world and not law, most HR people know that SLU is a good (not great) school. They are mostly ignorant to the rankings. Unless you are talking about an Ivy league school, their alma mater, or the University of Phoenix; not a lot of weight is given to where you went to school, just THAT you went to school. Especially once you are in the door. After that it's all about what you do, not where you've been.

Not trying to say the rankings don't matter. Just that there is a limit to how useful they are in some fields.

This has been my experience also, which is in more of a technical field where many people have degrees from Rolla or U of I. It's really not that big of a deal. I would rank any relevant experience and interview skills, possibly even gpa if it's your first job as being more important than where the degree is from (with the ivy league/u of Phoenix qualifier).

[SLUMedBilliken15]

At least this happened during hurricane Sandy. That should help the situation garner less attention. Media attention may help overthrow Biondi but will undoubtedly tarnish the school's reputation and cause our rankings to drop even further. This further drop will be blamed on Biondi, although i believe the faculty and students who got us into this mess are also at fault. Biondi may need to go but this isnt the way to do it.

[billiken_roy]

Question to the older guys on the board: How much does your college degree affect getting a job? I'm an undergrad as well. Someone once told me that after your first job, employers really only look at your job experience. Is that true?

i can tell you that i have had 5 employers since i graduated from slu in 1982. no one has ever asked to see my transcripts (thank god. those theology and philosophy opportunities didnt turn out too good ). i dont remember anyone even asking me about saint louis university in an interview even though it was on my resume and the application if asked to fill one out.

[Box and Won]

Maybe I'm not looking at this right, but as a current student that's going to graduate soon, I really just want SLU to have a high ranking so my degree looks better. Biondi promised top 50 and it's moving in the opposite direction and a pretty dramatic pace. I honestly couldn't care less about the endowment numbers or tenured professors or whatever. This is a time where the administration and faculty are both being selfish so as a student I am too. Give me a ranking that is moving up. That's not happening now so something has to change.

It's important to consider is that in SLU's range in the rankings, multiple schools end up tied for the same position. For instance, SLU is currently ranked #92, tied with four other schools. Three schools are tied for the next highest spot, #89, and Marquette and five other schools are ranked two spots higher at #83. So, while Marquette's ranking sounds a lot better than ours, in actuality they're only two spots higher.

Due to all the ties in the rankings, our drop from #77 to #92 is not as bad as it sounds (in the current rankings only three spots separate #77 from #92, and I would suspect that things were similar back when SLU was ranked #77).

I'm not making excuses - I would much rather see this trend reversed - but in reality, we only dropped three spots and not 15.

With regards to the endowment and tenured professors, you should care, as these factors are all interrelated and affect our ranking.

[SpartanBilliken]

It's important to consider is that in SLU's range in the rankings, multiple schools end up tied for the same position. For instance, SLU is currently ranked #92, tied with four other schools. Three schools are tied for the next highest spot, #89, and Marquette and five other schools are ranked two spots higher at #83. So, while Marquette's ranking sounds a lot better than ours, in actuality they're only two spots higher.

Due to all the ties in the rankings, our drop from #77 to #92 is not as bad as it sounds (in the current rankings only three spots separate #77 from #92, and I would suspect that things were similar back when SLU was ranked #77).

I'm not making excuses - I would much rather see this trend reversed - but in reality, we only dropped three spots and not 15.

With regards to the endowment and tenured professors, you should care, as these factors are all interrelated and affect our ranking.

+1 good find. People can hush about the rankings now.

[billiken_roy]

As a hiring official, I'd look at your degree and then delve into more of what you did while getting that degree. Frats. Clubs. Organizations. Jobs. How you handle things in terms o fhow well prepared you are also counts. I'm also old-fashioned so appearance and dress and the like speak volumes. Non-verbals are also key; those things you can't bluff. The degree gets you a seat at the table.

i agree with taj on the above. if i was hiring a newby out of college, i would be more interested in the extra's one was able to be active in and still graduate. plus those extra's would likely give me a window into that person's personality and likes at least give me a lead in question and see where that may take me. While i am actually a big frat/sorority fan, i want to see that they took a leadership role in the organization. didnt just show up for the party.

[RiseAndGrind]

+1 good find. People can hush about the rankings now.

I guess I'll ignore the trend lines.

[bonwich]

The problem with the faculty's numbers was pointed out earlier by, among others, Spartan Billiken: The guy who put them together was dealing with publicly released numbers, which in some cases were a year or two out of date.

The problem with Father Biondi's numbers, however, is that they frequently aren't put in perspective. High enrollments, test scores, etc. -- how does that compare with national averages, let alone averages among some sort of peer groups? Hasn't enrollment in colleges and universities spiked overall in the past few years through a combination of demographics and the recession?

Same thing with the issue of faculty raises that another poster brought up: How do SLU's faculty salaries (and their growth rates or lack thereof) compare to national averages and to averages within peer groups?

It also might be interesting to compare the numbers during Father Biondi's tenure against similar numbers at WashU for the same period.

[NH]

I'm just speculating but don't you think the importance of where you went to school would be very reliant on where you are trying to work? Where I go to school, they say the degree has a lot of importance in Texas and Atlanta. I'm not sure it would hold nearly as much weight in California, Chicago etc.

[Box and Won]

+1 good find. People can hush about the rankings now.

Still, the recent downward trend concerns me, especially considering how much progress the university has made in recent years.

The law school situation is especially troubling, and I believe the problems there may be indicative of issues in other departments.

[Box and Won]

The problem with the faculty's numbers was pointed out earlier by, among others, Spartan Billiken: The guy who put them together was dealing with publicly released numbers, which in some cases were a year or two out of date.

The problem with Father Biondi's numbers, however, is that they frequently aren't put in perspective. High enrollments, test scores, etc. -- how does that compare with national averages, let alone averages among some sort of peer groups? Hasn't enrollment in colleges and universities spiked overall in the past few years through a combination of demographics and the recession?

Same thing with the issue of faculty raises that another poster brought up: How do SLU's faculty salaries (and their growth rates or lack thereof) compare to national averages and to averages within peer groups?

It also might be interesting to compare the numbers during Father Biondi's tenure against similar numbers at WashU for the same period.

And how does the performance of the endowment compare to that of the DJIA or S&P 500? I'm guessing not favorably.

[slufan13]

Ok thanks to all those out there for your take on how much a degree from a certain school actually means. I honestly didn't know and it at least sounds a little better now. I'll be graduating in the spring with an accounting and marketing degree with 2 internships. Everyone I talk to says work experience is better than anything else, but I was still concerned that my degree wouldn't look that good.

No matter how you look at the rankings, SLU does continue to fall. There are still 15 schools that passed up SLU in the last 4-5 years or whatever. Father Biondi has done a ton for this school. I'm obviously too young to really know, but my dad graduated from here in 84 and he's stated how it is significantly better. That still doesn't mean that he's right for the school right now though.

Anyway. Exhibition game Saturday. First game just 9 days away. Can't wait.

[billiken_roy]

Ok thanks to all those out there for your take on how much a degree from a certain school actually means. I honestly didn't know and it at least sounds a little better now. I'll be graduating in the spring with an accounting and marketing degree with 2 internships. Everyone I talk to says work experience is better than anything else, but I was still concerned that my degree wouldn't look that good. No matter how you look at the rankings, SLU does continue to fall. There are still 15 schools that passed up SLU in the last 4-5 years or whatever. Father Biondi has done a ton for this school. I'm obviously too young to really know, but my dad graduated from here in 84 and he's stated how it is significantly better. That still doesn't mean that he's right for the school right now though. Anyway. Exhibition game Saturday. First game just 9 days away. Can't wait.

regardless of our board's panic about the crashing ranking of a slu diploma, my opinion is it is still worth far more than the university of phoenix, siu-e, semo, univ of illinois - springfield, lindenwood, etc. there is still plenty of prestige to being a billiken.

[RiseAndGrind]

nm

[Box and Won]

Ok thanks to all those out there for your take on how much a degree from a certain school actually means. I honestly didn't know and it at least sounds a little better now. I'll be graduating in the spring with an accounting and marketing degree with 2 internships. Everyone I talk to says work experience is better than anything else, but I was still concerned that my degree wouldn't look that good.

You'll be fine (I'm assuming that you are an intelligent guy). In our region, SLU is generally viewed by outsiders as a solid school.

[AlumniFan]

I found this article interesting on college salaries. They have not been doing too well, but still better than the general populace:

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/04/09/aaup-releases-faculty-salary-data

Also, I did some simple calculations and CAGR for the SLU endowment based on the figures in the letter was about 9.46%, well above the S&P, but that is not a fair comparison at all because it does not factor in fund raising and the the expense ratio the University is applying. I'd like to know what the true rate of return was and how it compares to the NACUBO.

[slufan13]

I honestly don't have any idea on what the criteria for these rankings are, but Forbes ranks SLU #257

http://www.forbes.com/colleges/saint-louis-university-main-campus/

If you click on the "More about Saint Louis University" tab, it actually gives some interesting numbers. I found the numbers regarding the basketball revenue to be interesting.

[Box and Won]

I honestly don't have any idea on what the criteria for these rankings are, but Forbes ranks SLU #257

http://www.forbes.co...ty-main-campus/

If you click on the "More about Saint Louis University" tab, it actually gives some interesting numbers. I found the numbers regarding the basketball revenue to be interesting.

Those rankings are odd. Centre College is ranked ahead of Johns Hopkins, Carnegie Mellon and Wash U. Santa Clara is one spot behind Wash U. Bat-sh!t crazy hard-core Catholic University of Dallas is ranked way ahead of SLU. College of the Ozarks is ahead of the University of Wisconsin.