Kowal under investigation

[GoBills]

I find it sad that Northern Illinois and the NCAA are putting up obstacles for a kid who wants to use his athletic scholarship to help himself get an education. Yet the one year wonders who parade through Kentucky with no intention to get an education - They go to school for one semester and then skip class the second semester while they focus strictly on the NBA. Those guys get through the system with free sailing. Using an educational institution for the sole purpose of playing basketball is apparently preferrable to the other way around. At least the NCAA should make an attempt to promote the concept of STUDENT-athletes.

[JohnnyJumpUp]

OK, so I am an idiot am I?. I have had it. As you can see I post on here very infrequently. I only posted on this yesterday because I have watched threads like this get totally out of control. It wouldn't be too long before see some of the Majerus haters might take this to the next level and blame him for everything--including cheating. I only posted this to try to stop the direction it was going--that we might be investigated by the NCAA.

I have been very fortunate to be allowed "inside the ropes", which includes watching practices, and being out socially with the coaches and AD. There are several people on here, including all 3 Shoes, Billikan, and Bill Ken R, who have known me for many years and know I wouldn't talk without knowing what I was talking about.

BTW, if you don't think Paul Eckerle is the team leader, you really can't be helped. Ask any of the players.

Because of conversations like these, I will not be posting again. My intentions were solely to aid the program. I don't think everyone here has the same intentions.

BTW, I have also backed up my mouth with my checkbook, and continue to do so.

GOOD BYE for good.

BOB R

You don't tug on superman's cape, you don't spit into the wind, you don't take the mask of the old lone ranger and you don't mess around with Bob....or he will leave for good!?!?

Come on now, this isn't the Bob we all know and love. Where did this sensitive side come from. Who gives a ###### if someone doesn't appreciate your post. You can't please everyone.

[brianstl]

See you in Salina, jerk.

I am greatly offended by the jerk comment. It might be time for me take my ball and go home.

[bsheldon]

How much do you think a graduate degree in divinity is worth? Or maybe Kowall was going the Joyce Meyer route. Then you might be onto something.

If you finish the sentence...a lawyer will spin it into something. They can see dollar bills in anything.

I honestly have no idea the $$ value, but then again it is divinity so can you really put a dollar sign the true worth? (I am sure a lawyer can.)

[bsheldon]

Billiken Bob, don't you think you're getting a little carried away? Why be so sensitive?

I'm sure you don't like it when someone with no real info posts things about players grades or any other personal aspect of their lives. do you? I would think any real Billiken fan who is even remotely close to the players would frown upon that.

Do you read often enough to know it happens? Anyone can post anything, so again, why be so sensitive when most posters have no idea whether you are an insider, or just some jack off with 19 posts trying to stir crap up.

ARon has 165 posts responding to a guy with 19 posts, posting negative personal info. If you read the crap that goes on here sometimes, you'd probably thank him for questioning it, except for of course the idiot line.

You could have just as easily came back on and had long time respected posters vouch that you are for real (as they did anyway) and not gotten mad and decided to take your ball and run.

We need real guys with good info to share with us info they feel they can, or to provide insight to some of us who have also been long time supporters but can't give to the level that allows us insiders status. Please come back and play.

+1 well said.

[willie]

If you finish the sentence...a lawyer will spin it into something. They can see dollar bills in anything.

I honestly have no idea the $$ value, but then again it is divinity so can you really put a dollar sign the true worth? (I am sure a lawyer can.)

He wants to coach and teach at Desmet. What's that worth? 35-55K?

[bsheldon]

He wants to coach and teach at Desmet. What's that worth? 35-55K?

The point was his damages (or loss of earning potential over his career) by not going to grad school. So say with just a Teacher's certificate and his present degree he would start at 35K. But if he had a master's degree to go with that he could demand and rightfully get 40K to start. Amortized over his career, say 40 years and that gap becomes a large chunk of change that could potentially be shown to be his losses because of the NCAA's actions or non-actions that were in effect ruling against him and his ability to play ball and have one year of grad school paid for. Without that year paid for he states he could not afford to go and thus his career earning potential is detrimentally affected.

Now, I am not a lawyer, but I have seen them on TV, so this must be accurate. Seriously, though, this is just a theory and total speculation on my part. As I said earlier we really don't know any of the facts for sure and have only heard SK's side of things as NIU and NCAA have been tight-lipped.

[cheeseman]

I have read all the posts and have given the thread some thought. I already posted about the silliness of libel suits and the control of the NCAA as a voluntary membership organization for all schools. But the idea that NIU and Patton are bad people is a bit over the top. I know that it looks like Kowal is being ganged up on my NIU and the NCAA but lets look at this a bit more objectively.

1. The NCAA is an organization that has been set up and agreed upon by all member schools to be the decider and policing agent of its rules that all schools voluntarily accept Whether the rules are fair or if schools have a realistic choice not to belong or not is not the issue - only that they are members for whatever the reason and as such must abide by its rules.

2. Kowal by his own admission was not truthful to Patton and NIU. So, he starts this issue out with a lie - perhaps a bit harsh - but none-the-less what do you call it when somebody does not tell the true reasons he/she is purporting to someone else. I won't even go into how that behavior fits in with wanting to be a divinity student.

3. NIU and Patton are miffed by being misled by Kowal - they have the right to be upset and expect the rules to be enforced. So they play a little game of "Chicken" with Kowal and eventually give in and release him. Now, he is free but the damage he caused himself is not over. We don't know if NIU reported the issue to the NCAA or not - probably but it could have been anybody else also we just don't know.

4. The NCAA is duly expected to investigate and that means SLU's involvement also. If somebody had done this to SLU my guess is that we would have reported the matter also to be looked at. As long as SLU did nothing wrong then this will simply go away. As for Kowal,his situation is a bit more sticky. He can still go to school - sorry he thinks he is owed a free year of tuition but most who go to grad school have to pony up out of their own pocket in some way. Whether he eventually gets cleared or not is something time will only tell. SLU has to move on and view this as a gift that ultimately did not happen - we are no worse off as before.

5. Finally, as a SLU fan it is easy to see that you have a dog in this fight but clearly if this was going on somewhere else we would be lot more focused on how it happened - Kowal not being honest with NIU. By the way, perhaps Kowal thought his first story he told NIU was necessary to get his release - who knows but he played with fire and got burned - what did he expect?

[kshoe]

The point was his damages (or loss of earning potential over his career) by not going to grad school. So say with just a Teacher's certificate and his present degree he would start at 35K. But if he had a master's degree to go with that he could demand and rightfully get 40K to start. Amortized over his career, say 40 years and that gap becomes a large chunk of change that could potentially be shown to be his losses because of the NCAA's actions or non-actions that were in effect ruling against him and his ability to play ball and have one year of grad school paid for. Without that year paid for he states he could not afford to go and thus his career earning potential is detrimentally affected.

Now, I am not a lawyer, but I have seen them on TV, so this must be accurate. Seriously, though, this is just a theory and total speculation on my part. As I said earlier we really don't know any of the facts for sure and have only heard SK's side of things as NIU and NCAA have been tight-lipped.

It depends largely on the interest rate assumption, but a 40-year annuity of $5,000 is worth anywhere from 60k (8% rate) to 120k (3% rate) in present value terms.

[slufanskip]

The point was his damages (or loss of earning potential over his career) by not going to grad school. So say with just a Teacher's certificate and his present degree he would start at 35K. But if he had a master's degree to go with that he could demand and rightfully get 40K to start. Amortized over his career, say 40 years and that gap becomes a large chunk of change that could potentially be shown to be his losses because of the NCAA's actions or non-actions that were in effect ruling against him and his ability to play ball and have one year of grad school paid for. Without that year paid for he states he could not afford to go and thus his career earning potential is detrimentally affected.

Now, I am not a lawyer, but I have seen them on TV, so this must be accurate. Seriously, though, this is just a theory and total speculation on my part. As I said earlier we really don't know any of the facts for sure and have only heard SK's side of things as NIU and NCAA have been tight-lipped.

but the NCAA didn't stop him from getting anything.

Like Cheese said the NCAA member schools have a right not to join if they don't like the rules or if the benefits don't outweigh the drawbacks.

The same goes for Kowal. The right to play NCAA basketball isn't a God given one. Every player has the choice to not ever accept a scholarship and play ball if they don't want to. They always have the choice to tell the NCAA ... I don't think your rules are fair, I don't want to play. However they don't. Why, because though things aren't perfect, it's usually better than the alternative. They could just go on with life, take a job, join the military, pay for their own schooling and do whatever they want.

[billiken_roy]

even if slu had more than a "hello sean, we cant talk to you until you have a full release." phone call, (that is my understanding of what slu should have done had sean contacted slu prior to his release, and by no means was slu allowed to initiate anything)

assuming slu stays away from sean becoming a billiken nothing will happen.

if sean wants that divinity degree, i am sure there are plenty of naia schools that would accommodate him. so the fact he is sitting at home pouting is the part that bothers me. i.e. he apparently had his heart set on slu judging by the tone of the espn article imo. and that does somewhat concern me. as i said above, slu just now needs to stay away from him. it is not worth the inquisition etc for a one year backup and practice player.

[Clock_Tower]

even if slu had more than a "hello sean, we cant talk to you until you have a full release." phone call, (that is my understanding of what slu should have done had sean contacted slu prior to his release, and by no means was slu allowed to initiate anything)

assuming slu stays away from sean becoming a billiken nothing will happen.

if sean wants that divinity degree, i am sure there are plenty of naia schools that would accommodate him. so the fact he is sitting at home pouting is the part that bothers me. i.e. he apparently had his heart set on slu judging by the tone of the espn article imo. and that does somewhat concern me. as i said above, slu just now needs to stay away from him. it is not worth the inquisition etc for a one year backup and practice player.

Why am I not feeling sorry for guys like SK, and before him, Josh Harrelson, etc. who decide to go away to schools - attend schools other than SLU. SK chose Colorado and NIU. Sorry it did not work out here at SLU for SK's last year -- third college. I'm reminded of the baseball free-agent who chooses other MLB clubs during his prime but then says he wants to play for his hometown (Cardinals) when he's 40 years old. If it's always been your dream, where were you earlier? Hook your star to Patton? Your decision, not mine. Again, I wonder about these "big-time" wanna-be Illinois directional schools. Then again, both SK and JH apparently were not honest and upfront with their directional schools.

To all you high school players: SLU is no longer your safe choice. Times have changed. If you want to play for SLU, line-up early and commit early or when you have a chance b/c there may not be room for you later.

[jimbofive]

To all you high school players: SLU is no longer your safe choice. Times have changed. If you want to play for SLU, line-up early and commit early or when you have a chance b/c there may not be room for you later.

HATE HATE HATE.

[ACE]

Why am I not feeling sorry for guys like SK, and before him, Josh Harrelson, etc. who decide to go away to schools - attend schools other than SLU. SK chose Colorado and NIU. Sorry it did not work out here at SLU for SK's last year -- third college. I'm reminded of the baseball free-agent who chooses other MLB clubs during his prime but then says he wants to play for his hometown (Cardinals) when he's 40 years old. If it's always been your dream, where were you earlier? Hook your star to Patton? Your decision, not mine. Again, I wonder about these "big-time" wanna-be Illinois directional schools. Then again, both SK and JH apparently were not honest and upfront with their directional schools.

To all you high school players: SLU is no longer your safe choice. Times have changed. If you want to play for SLU, line-up early and commit early or when you have a chance b/c there may not be room for you later.

I agree with your sentiment, that local players who want to play for SLU will now have to commit early, and I especially agree concerning Harrelson. I enjoy seeing him sit on the end of the Kentucky bench. But I think Kowal may be different. I am not sure SLU ever offered Kowal out of high school. I never heard his name mentioned as a potential recruit. Maybe others have some insight.

[cheeseman]

I agree with your sentiment, that local players who want to play for SLU will now have to commit early, and I especially agree concerning Harrelson. I enjoy seeing him sit on the end of the Kentucky bench. But I think Kowal may be different. I am not sure SLU ever offered Kowal out of high school. I never heard his name mentioned as a potential recruit. Maybe others have some insight.

Seems to me I remember hearing that Kowal was not interested in staying in town so there was no interest on his part - kind of ironic.

[Clock_Tower]

I agree with your sentiment, that local players who want to play for SLU will now have to commit early, and I especially agree concerning Harrelson. I enjoy seeing him sit on the end of the Kentucky bench. But I think Kowal may be different. I am not sure SLU ever offered Kowal out of high school. I never heard his name mentioned as a potential recruit. Maybe others have some insight.

I highly doubt that all the Cincinnati kids who go elsewhere and then want to come back home find much of a welcome mat at Xavier. The opposite has been the situation at SLU. Jim Roder, Ted Mimlitz, Jamal Johnson and Evan Pederson come to mind - guys who left, came home and then found little to no competition waiting for them at SLU. For years, it seems like every local kid who becomes disappointed at this college situation, not necessarily kids who transfer, gets rumored to have interest in SLU and SLU interest in them. He's not transferring but Suggs gets mentioned. Brandenberg got mentioned. Harrelson, of course, got mentioned. Finally, SLU is in a position where there is not the room (scholarships) and mutual interest as there would have been at any time in the last 40 years with respect to 6'10" kid with 3 prior years of D1 college ball.

[Cowboy]

4. The NCAA is duly expected to investigate and that means SLU's involvement also. If somebody had done this to SLU my guess is that we would have reported the matter also to be looked at. As long as SLU did nothing wrong then this will simply go away. As for Kowal,his situation is a bit more sticky. He can still go to school - sorry he thinks he is owed a free year of tuition but most who go to grad school have to pony up out of their own pocket in some way. Whether he eventually gets cleared or not is something time will only tell. SLU has to move on and view this as a gift that ultimately did not happen - we are no worse off as before.

-it sure looks like he didn't play his cards right, but if i have the one time chance to have someone else pay $40k for something that i want and would not have to pay for, i am upset the chance slips by as well, esp if i messed up the situation somehow

-whole thing to me seems screwed up, the rule itself, the speediness of some rulings by the ncaa vs the slowness in others, the potential rift between player and coach who moved schools together during their careers

[Guest BillikenReport]

Here's some notes I found from when Kowal committed to Colorado:

Kowal, a 6-foot-10, 240-pound center, contacted the Colorado coaching staff a couple weeks ago because he was interested in the school. After some background research, the team sent an assistant coach to check out Kowal and offered him a scholarship on the spot.

A Metro Catholic Conference honorable mention selection after averaging 7.6 points and 5.7 rebounds a game last season, Kowal said he also considered Austin Peay, St. Louis University, Ball State, Tennessee and Albany.

My notes include "SLU was going to keep watching."

Looks like his only offers at the time he committed were from Colorado, Austin Peay, Eastern Illinois and D-2 Drury.

[ACE]

I highly doubt that all the Cincinnati kids who go elsewhere and then want to come back home find much of a welcome mat at Xavier. The opposite has been the situation at SLU. Jim Roder, Ted Mimlitz, Jamal Johnson and Evan Pederson come to mind - guys who left, came home and then found little to no competition waiting for them at SLU. For years, it seems like every local kid who becomes disappointed at this college situation, not necessarily kids who transfer, gets rumored to have interest in SLU and SLU interest in them. He's not transferring but Suggs gets mentioned. Brandenberg got mentioned. Harrelson, of course, got mentioned. Finally, SLU is in a position where there is not the room (scholarships) and mutual interest as there would have been at any time in the last 40 years with respect to 6'10" kid with 3 prior years of D1 college ball.

While not from Cincinnati, Drew Lavender did leave Oklahoma and returned to Ohio when he transferred to Xavier. I get your point. Regarding a player who had a chance to sign with us originally and turned us down, I would be less inclined to take them on the rebound, especially if it was somebody like Harrelson. Hypothetically, if there is a top quality player down the road like Beal who might want to come back, I would make an exception. Regarding Kowal, I just don't have the same animosity as I do for Harrelson, because I'm not so sure we wanted him out of high school. I don't think he was very highly regarded.

I wanted Kowal this year because I thought he could have helped. I am still concerned that our frontline is not very physical. Now, this should resolve any question whether Cory was going to redshirt or not. I liked the idea of having the luxury of redshirting him, but if the reports of his offseason development prove true, I really look forward to seeing what he can contribute this year. I think there is an important role that he can fill.

[ACE]

Here's some notes I found from when Kowal committed to Colorado:

Kowal, a 6-foot-10, 240-pound center, contacted the Colorado coaching staff a couple weeks ago because he was interested in the school. After some background research, the team sent an assistant coach to check out Kowal and offered him a scholarship on the spot.

A Metro Catholic Conference honorable mention selection after averaging 7.6 points and 5.7 rebounds a game last season, Kowal said he also considered Austin Peay, St. Louis University, Ball State, Tennessee and Albany.

My notes include "SLU was going to keep watching."

Looks like his only offers at the time he committed were from Colorado, Austin Peay, Eastern Illinois and D-2 Drury.

Thanks Nate. That's the way I thought it went down. So when he was coming out of high school, we can not put Kowal in the "local guy that turned us down" category.

[Guest BillikenReport]

Thanks Nate. That's the way I thought it went down. So when he was coming out of high school, we can not put Kowal in the "local guy that turned us down" category.

You can put Kowal into the "maybe SLU should have recruited him harder" category, though I can't fault the coaches too much for not offering him. He was a project and a lot of people were surprised that he received the scholarship offer from Colorado. He obviously worked hard in college to get better and ended up doing some good things at NIU.

[kevinfootes]

While not from Cincinnati, Drew Lavender did leave Oklahoma and returned to Ohio when he transferred to Xavier. I get your point. Regarding a player who had a chance to sign with us originally and turned us down, I would be less inclined to take them on the rebound, especially if it was somebody like Harrelson. Hypothetically, if there is a top quality player down the road like Beal who might want to come back, I would make an exception. Regarding Kowal, I just don't have the same animosity as I do for Harrelson, because I'm not so sure we wanted him out of high school. I don't think he was very highly regarded.

I wanted Kowal this year because I thought he could have helped. I am still concerned that our frontline is not very physical. Now, this should resolve any question whether Cory was going to redshirt or not. I liked the idea of having the luxury of redshirting him, but if the reports of his offseason development prove true, I really look forward to seeing what he can contribute this year. I think there is an important role that he can fill.

Why have any animosity towards kids just because they chose a school other than the one you support? If they wind up going somewhere else, big deal. We're in a better place with recruiting now, so if one good prospect passes on us we'll move on to the next. Even if we weren't in the position we're in now, why hate on college kids? Why hold grudges and take pleasure in perceived failures years down the road?

[tourist]

Why have any animosity towards kids just because they chose a school other than the one you support? If they wind up going somewhere else, big deal. We're in a better place with recruiting now, so if one good prospect passes on us we'll move on to the next. Even if we weren't in the position we're in now, why hate on college kids? Why hold grudges and take pleasure in perceived failures years down the road?

+1

[DeSmetBilliken]

You can put Kowal into the "maybe SLU should have recruited him harder" category, though I can't fault the coaches too much for not offering him. He was a project and a lot of people were surprised that he received the scholarship offer from Colorado. He obviously worked hard in college to get better and ended up doing some good things at NIU.

I mentioned this in a post at the beginning of this Kowal situation, but I'll say it again. When I saw Kowal play for DeSmet a couple of times as a junior in high school, I was less than impressed. When I heard that he had committed to Colorado, I was very surprised. I was glad to see that he did make a decent college career for himself, especially once he got to NIU. I would have been happy to see him come to SLU, if anything to provide an extra big off the bench to fight for rebounds or give 5 more fouls. If you told me that I would feel that way 5-6 years ago, I wouldn't have believed you. Obviously this seems to be a moot issue now.

[jbizzle09]

Why have any animosity towards kids just because they chose a school other than the one you support? If they wind up going somewhere else, big deal. We're in a better place with recruiting now, so if one good prospect passes on us we'll move on to the next. Even if we weren't in the position we're in now, why hate on college kids? Why hold grudges and take pleasure in perceived failures years down the road?

I wholeheartedly agree. Very well said.