Saint Louis is a tough job

[Quality Is Job 1]

Charlie Spoonhour had a 197-81 record in nine seasons at MSU. He led the Bears to five NCAA Tournament appearances and two National Invitation Tournament berths.

Spoonhour resigned in after the 1991-92 season and went to Saint Louis University where he had a 122-90 record in seven seasons.

He was 54-31 in three seasons at UNLV before retiring in 2004.

Here's evidence of how challenging the SLU job is. Charlie Spoonhour was a highly-respected coach, and at Southwest Missouri State he averaged 22-9. He averaged 18-10 at UNLV. His average at SLU? 18-13 (rounding up).

While it's still early in Rick Majerus's tenure with SLU, a comparison of his numbers at Ball State, Utah, and SLU would likely yield similar results (I don't feel like looking up the numbers) thus far.

Comments?

[MusicCityBilliken]

Here's evidence of how challenging the SLU job is. Charlie Spoonhour was a highly-respected coach, and at Southwest Missouri State he averaged 22-9. He averaged 18-10 at UNLV. His average at SLU? 18-13 (rounding up).

While it's still early in Rick Majerus's tenure with SLU, a comparison of his numbers at Ball State, Utah, and SLU would likely yield similar results (I don't feel like looking up the numbers) thus far.

Comments?

Romar was 24-24 in CUSA and 51-44 overall at SLU for 3 years. Been in the NCAA's once with a 1st round loss.

At Washington his record in the Pac10 84-60 and overall 171-90. Been in NCAA 5x in 8 years. This includes 3 sweet sixteens.

That kind says a lot on how difficult the SLU job is.

[thetorch]

No doubt not an easy job but it has become easier.

[cheeseman]

You can not take these numbers and compare them like apples and apples. When Spoon came to SLU, he took over a team that had single digit wins the year before. He was under 500 the first year but the players were maturing and he added to it. All his other years were good except the year Hughes left and Love was hurt. Hughes stays and Love is healthy then he has a monster year. Spoon at SMS was in the MVC not even remotely comparable to CUSA so his task of winning was easier. I am not familiar enough with UNLV's situation to comment. Romar took over for Spoon and went to the tourney with Spoon's players. But, the cupboard was getting bare and so he had to start rebuilding. He did not stay long enough to really get a read on what SLU could have been. Besides, he went to Washington - a BCS team in the PAC 10 - which automatically gave him a big push for recruiting. BS - not even going there. Everyone knows that story. RM - winning seasons every year and records better each year. He came to a team that had a couple of aces and a bunch of little cards so it was not an easy hand to play. He has upgraded recruiting each year and we are on the verge of being very good this year. RM came to the A10 when the A10 has gotten stronger - much stronger then when BS was here. When RM was at Utah and Bowling Green neither of those two conferences were giant killers.

[Clock_Tower]

You can not take these numbers and compare them like apples and apples. When Spoon came to SLU, he took over a team that had single digit wins the year before. He was under 500 the first year but the players were maturing and he added to it. All his other years were good except the year Hughes left and Love was hurt. Hughes stays and Love is healthy then he has a monster year. Spoon at SMS was in the MVC not even remotely comparable to CUSA so his task of winning was easier. I am not familiar enough with UNLV's situation to comment. Romar took over for Spoon and went to the tourney with Spoon's players. But, the cupboard was getting bare and so he had to start rebuilding. He did not stay long enough to really get a read on what SLU could have been. Besides, he went to Washington - a BCS team in the PAC 10 - which automatically gave him a big push for recruiting. BS - not even going there. Everyone knows that story. RM - winning seasons every year and records better each year. He came to a team that had a couple of aces and a bunch of little cards so it was not an easy hand to play. He has upgraded recruiting each year and we are on the verge of being very good this year. RM came to the A10 when the A10 has gotten stronger - much stronger then when BS was here. When RM was at Utah and Bowling Green neither of those two conferences were giant killers.

Fair points about Spoon.

As to Romar, the cupboard was full when he stepped in - both existing players and recruits (Marquee Perry was re-recruited and re-committed to Romar/SLU) and (Justin Love was recruited by Spoon and then re-recruited by Romar). The problem, though, was that while Romar was a nice guy, great speaker, very friendly and media friendly, Romar is the guy who that year recruited ONLY 1 recruit: Randy Pulley (who then flunked out). Romar is the guy who recruited Jason Edwin who then flunked out and McClain who later quit. Romar is the guy who recruited only Nick Kern (who never could have qualified at SLU) and Ryan Hollins. The cupboards were depleted under Romar -- that really cannot be disputed -- but we didn't notice as much b/c the upperclassmen (Spoon's guys) were still here and winning. Maybe the troops were all set to come the following year if Romar had stayed, but what would things have been like if Romar did, in fact, stay 1 more year but I seriously question how well we would have done if Brad did not come in and sign, last minute, guys like Drejaj, Justin Johnson, Izchak Ohanon and Reggie Bryant. W/o this added help and if Romar had stayed another year, Romar would have had a tough year even with Hollins. Brad was given a "honeymoon" period at first whereas Romar's past years of recruiting failures would have been glaring. Ironic thing is that I believe that Spring was Brad's finest hour at SLU - the way he took over the team, kept any kids from leaving, and brought in some good players.

Had Romar stayed (and w/o Pulley, Edwin, McClain and Kern and with the graduation of the Seniors and with only Hollins on board), we would have had a bad year. Faced with a bad year and without much existing players, I truly doubt the West Coast troops and bigger name local kids that Romar was "developing contacts with" would have come. Also, with a bad year and little hope in sight, no way Romar even gets an offer from a BCS school if he had stayed 1 more year.

The wheels had already come off the wagon. The music had already stopped but the people were still dancing. In that context, Romar shed his fake tears, left St. Louis as fast as he possibly could and vowed never wants to return. No doubt has coaching skills and no doubt that Romar learned from his mistakes and no doubt that Washington is easier place for Romar. Timing is everything and Romar got lucky.

[bauman]

Fair points about Spoon.

As to Romar, the cupboard was full when he stepped in - both existing players and recruits (Marquee Perry was re-recruited and re-committed to Romar/SLU) and (Justin Love was recruited by Spoon and then re-recruited by Romar). The problem, though, was that while Romar was a nice guy, great speaker, very friendly and media friendly, Romar is the guy who that year recruited ONLY 1 recruit: Randy Pulley (who then flunked out). Romar is the guy who recruited Jason Edwin who then flunked out and McClain who later quit. Romar is the guy who recruited only Nick Kern (who never could have qualified at SLU) and Ryan Hollins. The cupboards were depleted under Romar -- that really cannot be disputed -- but we didn't notice as much b/c the upperclassmen (Spoon's guys) were still here and winning. Maybe the troops were all set to come the following year if Romar had stayed, but what would things have been like if Romar did, in fact, stay 1 more year but I seriously question how well we would have done if Brad did not come in and sign, last minute, guys like Drejaj, Justin Johnson, Izchak Ohanon and Reggie Bryant. W/o this added help and if Romar had stayed another year, Romar would have had a tough year even with Hollins. Brad was given a "honeymoon" period at first whereas Romar's past years of recruiting failures would have been glaring. Ironic thing is that I believe that Spring was Brad's finest hour at SLU - the way he took over the team, kept any kids from leaving, and brought in some good players.

Had Romar stayed (and w/o Pulley, Edwin, McClain and Kern and with the graduation of the Seniors and with only Hollins on board), we would have had a bad year. Faced with a bad year and without much existing players, I truly doubt the West Coast troops and bigger name local kids that Romar was "developing contacts with" would have come. Also, with a bad year and little hope in sight, no way Romar even gets an offer from a BCS school if he had stayed 1 more year.

The wheels had already come off the wagon. The music had already stopped but the people were still dancing. In that context, Romar shed his fake tears, left St. Louis as fast as he possibly could and vowed never wants to return. No doubt has coaching skills and no doubt that Romar learned from his mistakes and no doubt that Washington is easier place for Romar. Timing is everything and Romar got lucky.

CT-great analysis, including giving BS his due. I know SLU isn't an easy place to recruit to (although I think with RM here it will become easier) but NONE of our most recent HCs recruited well. I'm including Spoon, LR and BS in that comment. RM is the first HC in a long time to get really good players year after year. We have had a couple of isolated good years in the past 30 or so years, but none that were followed up with a 2nd and 3rd good years. (I see this as the curse of Upchurch)

[Taj79]

Cheese --agree on you can't compare numbers like apples to apples. Unfortunately, that's all one has and numbers are more absolute and objective. Roger Maris 61, Barry Bonds 75 (or whatever). In the numbers game, Bonds obviously wins. Then you add in the steroid era. Taken out of context is the phrase to hide behind .. ask Ozzie Guillen.

Spoon's cupboard was filled with developing players in Claggs and Highmark. But those teams do not become legendary with Spoon (& staff's) work in getting H, Dobbs, Robinson, Campbell, Turner and others. Spoon leaves right after Hughes, but leaves Baniak, Tatum, Heinrich and Love behind for Romar. Not bad if you ask me. Romar does get Perry but short of that, the shortcomings of all his recruits are well-documented by Clock. Soderberg did well enough to remain soluble and keep the head mostly above water, but he was the wrong man in the worng place when it was decided that a major renovation had to come in with the major renovation, Chaifetz.

Coaches always come and go and the question I'd ask is "was the program in better shape when coach left, then when he came?" I'd say "yes" to Grawer, Spoon and actually Soderberg. I'd say no to Romar and my short experiences with Albrecht, Coleman and, of course, Dr. Death Ron Ekker. And this is without looking at any numbers and stats. Its probably more of a feel thing and subjective rules in sports as the perception is the reality.

Any job has got to be hard when there is no tradition, no facilities, no support, bad karma or whatever. That IS Saint Louis basketball. But it is changing I believe and the first step was the drastic hire of Majerus. Its still got a long way to go but I don't remember being this excited about an upcoming season since Gray and Douglas' senior year.

[bauman]

Cheese --agree on you can't compare numbers like apples to apples. Unfortunately, that's all one has and numbers are more absolute and objective. Roger Maris 61, Barry Bonds 75 (or whatever). In the numbers game, Bonds obviously wins. Then you add in the steroid era. Taken out of context is the phrase to hide behind .. ask Ozzie Guillen.

Spoon's cupboard was filled with developing players in Claggs and Highmark. But those teams do not become legendary with Spoon (& staff's) work in getting H, Dobbs, Robinson, Campbell, Turner and others. Spoon leaves right after Hughes, but leaves Baniak, Tatum, Heinrich and Love behind for Romar. Not bad if you ask me. Romar does get Perry but short of that, the shortcomings of all his recruits are well-documented by Clock. Soderberg did well enough to remain soluble and keep the head mostly above water, but he was the wrong man in the worng place when it was decided that a major renovation had to come in with the major renovation, Chaifetz.

Coaches always come and go and the question I'd ask is "was the program in better shape when coach left, then when he came?" I'd say "yes" to Grawer, Spoon and actually Soderberg. I'd say no to Romar and my short experiences with Albrecht, Coleman and, of course, Dr. Death Ron Ekker. And this is without looking at any numbers and stats. Its probably more of a feel thing and subjective rules in sports as the perception is the reality.

Any job has got to be hard when there is no tradition, no facilities, no support, bad karma or whatever. That IS Saint Louis basketball. But it is changing I believe and the first step was the drastic hire of Majerus. Its still got a long way to go but I don't remember being this excited about an upcoming season since Gray and Douglas' senior year.

Actually Taj, my excitement goes back about 3 years from yours. I remember being at a 1980s version of a sports bar and watching RG and MD on a news cast announce that they were both coming to SLU. Then the next year, AB, then the next year Upchurch,,,,,,,,,,,no wait Upchurch didn't make it here.

[cheeseman]

Fair points about Spoon.

As to Romar, the cupboard was full when he stepped in - both existing players and recruits (Marquee Perry was re-recruited and re-committed to Romar/SLU) and (Justin Love was recruited by Spoon and then re-recruited by Romar). The problem, though, was that while Romar was a nice guy, great speaker, very friendly and media friendly, Romar is the guy who that year recruited ONLY 1 recruit: Randy Pulley (who then flunked out). Romar is the guy who recruited Jason Edwin who then flunked out and McClain who later quit. Romar is the guy who recruited only Nick Kern (who never could have qualified at SLU) and Ryan Hollins. The cupboards were depleted under Romar -- that really cannot be disputed -- but we didn't notice as much b/c the upperclassmen (Spoon's guys) were still here and winning. Maybe the troops were all set to come the following year if Romar had stayed, but what would things have been like if Romar did, in fact, stay 1 more year but I seriously question how well we would have done if Brad did not come in and sign, last minute, guys like Drejaj, Justin Johnson, Izchak Ohanon and Reggie Bryant. W/o this added help and if Romar had stayed another year, Romar would have had a tough year even with Hollins. Brad was given a "honeymoon" period at first whereas Romar's past years of recruiting failures would have been glaring. Ironic thing is that I believe that Spring was Brad's finest hour at SLU - the way he took over the team, kept any kids from leaving, and brought in some good players.

Had Romar stayed (and w/o Pulley, Edwin, McClain and Kern and with the graduation of the Seniors and with only Hollins on board), we would have had a bad year. Faced with a bad year and without much existing players, I truly doubt the West Coast troops and bigger name local kids that Romar was "developing contacts with" would have come. Also, with a bad year and little hope in sight, no way Romar even gets an offer from a BCS school if he had stayed 1 more year.

The wheels had already come off the wagon. The music had already stopped but the people were still dancing. In that context, Romar shed his fake tears, left St. Louis as fast as he possibly could and vowed never wants to return. No doubt has coaching skills and no doubt that Romar learned from his mistakes and no doubt that Washington is easier place for Romar. Timing is everything and Romar got lucky.

Fair points about Romar - the only real problem was that the good kids he got from Spoon were all seniors so after one year he was on his own was my only point.

[cheeseman]

Cheese --agree on you can't compare numbers like apples to apples. Unfortunately, that's all one has and numbers are more absolute and objective. Roger Maris 61, Barry Bonds 75 (or whatever). In the numbers game, Bonds obviously wins. Then you add in the steroid era. Taken out of context is the phrase to hide behind .. ask Ozzie Guillen.

Spoon's cupboard was filled with developing players in Claggs and Highmark. But those teams do not become legendary with Spoon (& staff's) work in getting H, Dobbs, Robinson, Campbell, Turner and others. Spoon leaves right after Hughes, but leaves Baniak, Tatum, Heinrich and Love behind for Romar. Not bad if you ask me. Romar does get Perry but short of that, the shortcomings of all his recruits are well-documented by Clock. Soderberg did well enough to remain soluble and keep the head mostly above water, but he was the wrong man in the worng place when it was decided that a major renovation had to come in with the major renovation, Chaifetz.

Coaches always come and go and the question I'd ask is "was the program in better shape when coach left, then when he came?" I'd say "yes" to Grawer, Spoon and actually Soderberg. I'd say no to Romar and my short experiences with Albrecht, Coleman and, of course, Dr. Death Ron Ekker. And this is without looking at any numbers and stats. Its probably more of a feel thing and subjective rules in sports as the perception is the reality.

Any job has got to be hard when there is no tradition, no facilities, no support, bad karma or whatever. That IS Saint Louis basketball. But it is changing I believe and the first step was the drastic hire of Majerus. Its still got a long way to go but I don't remember being this excited about an upcoming season since Gray and Douglas' senior year.

I am not sure that BS was the wrong man at the wrong time - I think he was just the wrong man - of course hindsight is always 20 20. My point of the post was that I do not think SLU is that bad of a place to succeed. Spoon did - one could even argue that he did better here then at SMS. Romar had his issues so hard to say if he would or would not have made it had he stayed longer. I can not argue with your points for the most part.

[Clock_Tower]

Fair points about Romar - the only real problem was that the good kids he got from Spoon were all seniors so after one year he was on his own was my only point.

Cheese.

No. Actually Baniak and Heinrich returned for the their Sophomore year which was the first year coached by Romar. Tatum played his first game under Romar -- remember, he had academic issues and never played with his high school teammate - Hughes. Romar coached at SLU for 3 years and had these 3 each year. Also, Spoon got Love and Perry to commit but Spoon never coached either - so Romar had Perry for all 3 years he coached and he had Love for his 2 years at SLU. Still tough to coach - and none of these guys were NBA talents, but even I could coach these 5 and get a few wins out of them.

Romar really never added many guys - Chris Sloan, Josh Fisher - but the rest were really Charlie's guys.

[billiken_roy]

Cheese.

No. Actually Baniak and Heinrich returned for the their Sophomore year which was the first year coached by Romar. Tatum played his first game under Romar -- remember, he had academic issues and never played with his high school teammate - Hughes. Romar coached at SLU for 3 years and had these 3 each year. Also, Spoon got Love and Perry to commit but Spoon never coached either - so Romar had Perry for all 3 years he coached and he had Love for his 2 years at SLU. Still tough to coach - and none of these guys were NBA talents, but even I could coach these 5 and get a few wins out of them.

Romar really never added many guys - Chris Sloan, Josh Fisher - but the rest were really Charlie's guys.

clock,

you are one year ahead of yourself i believe. spoon coached one year beyond hughes with a sub 500 season. so tatum played for spoon one year. baniak and heinrich were juniors when they suited up with romar. love played his junior year with spoon

you are correct about perry. spoon originally recruited him before he "retired" from slu. but he indeed played for romar.

[Box and Won]

Cheese.

No. Actually Baniak and Heinrich returned for the their Sophomore year which was the first year coached by Romar. Tatum played his first game under Romar -- remember, he had academic issues and never played with his high school teammate - Hughes. Romar coached at SLU for 3 years and had these 3 each year. Also, Spoon got Love and Perry to commit but Spoon never coached either - so Romar had Perry for all 3 years he coached and he had Love for his 2 years at SLU. Still tough to coach - and none of these guys were NBA talents, but even I could coach these 5 and get a few wins out of them.

Romar really never added many guys - Chris Sloan, Josh Fisher - but the rest were really Charlie's guys.

I think Spoon coached JLove's first year, when he was injured. Not to diminish your point though.

[ACE]

Spoon's last recruiting class was a very good one - Perry and Mo Jeffers. Add those two to Love, Ferg, Redden, Baniak, Tatum, Braun and Heinrich - and Spoon left Romar a pretty strong team.

[jjray]

Fair points about Spoon.

As to Romar, the cupboard was full when he stepped in - both existing players and recruits (Marquee Perry was re-recruited and re-committed to Romar/SLU) and (Justin Love was recruited by Spoon and then re-recruited by Romar). The problem, though, was that while Romar was a nice guy, great speaker, very friendly and media friendly, Romar is the guy who that year recruited ONLY 1 recruit: Randy Pulley (who then flunked out). Romar is the guy who recruited Jason Edwin who then flunked out and McClain who later quit. Romar is the guy who recruited only Nick Kern (who never could have qualified at SLU) and Ryan Hollins. The cupboards were depleted under Romar -- that really cannot be disputed -- but we didn't notice as much b/c the upperclassmen (Spoon's guys) were still here and winning. Maybe the troops were all set to come the following year if Romar had stayed, but what would things have been like if Romar did, in fact, stay 1 more year but I seriously question how well we would have done if Brad did not come in and sign, last minute, guys like Drejaj, Justin Johnson, Izchak Ohanon and Reggie Bryant. W/o this added help and if Romar had stayed another year, Romar would have had a tough year even with Hollins. Brad was given a "honeymoon" period at first whereas Romar's past years of recruiting failures would have been glaring. Ironic thing is that I believe that Spring was Brad's finest hour at SLU - the way he took over the team, kept any kids from leaving, and brought in some good players.

Had Romar stayed (and w/o Pulley, Edwin, McClain and Kern and with the graduation of the Seniors and with only Hollins on board), we would have had a bad year. Faced with a bad year and without much existing players, I truly doubt the West Coast troops and bigger name local kids that Romar was "developing contacts with" would have come. Also, with a bad year and little hope in sight, no way Romar even gets an offer from a BCS school if he had stayed 1 more year.

The wheels had already come off the wagon. The music had already stopped but the people were still dancing. In that context, Romar shed his fake tears, left St. Louis as fast as he possibly could and vowed never wants to return. No doubt has coaching skills and no doubt that Romar learned from his mistakes and no doubt that Washington is easier place for Romar. Timing is everything and Romar got lucky.

I can't believe you left off Romar recruit Ross Varner, the guy returning from 2 years of Mormon missionary work. Unforgivable. And there was John somebody from Wyoming I think. Tall skinny white kid with sideburns. One plus year on the team then vanished.

[SShoe]

Fair points about Spoon.

As to Romar, the cupboard was full when he stepped in - both existing players and recruits (Marquee Perry was re-recruited and re-committed to Romar/SLU) and (Justin Love was recruited by Spoon and then re-recruited by Romar). The problem, though, was that while Romar was a nice guy, great speaker, very friendly and media friendly, Romar is the guy who that year recruited ONLY 1 recruit: Randy Pulley (who then flunked out). Romar is the guy who recruited Jason Edwin who then flunked out and McClain who later quit. Romar is the guy who recruited only Nick Kern (who never could have qualified at SLU) and Ryan Hollins. The cupboards were depleted under Romar -- that really cannot be disputed -- but we didn't notice as much b/c the upperclassmen (Spoon's guys) were still here and winning. Maybe the troops were all set to come the following year if Romar had stayed, but what would things have been like if Romar did, in fact, stay 1 more year but I seriously question how well we would have done if Brad did not come in and sign, last minute, guys like Drejaj, Justin Johnson, Izchak Ohanon and Reggie Bryant. W/o this added help and if Romar had stayed another year, Romar would have had a tough year even with Hollins. Brad was given a "honeymoon" period at first whereas Romar's past years of recruiting failures would have been glaring. Ironic thing is that I believe that Spring was Brad's finest hour at SLU - the way he took over the team, kept any kids from leaving, and brought in some good players.

I somewhat agree with you that Brad's best came from that spring, but Romar left more in the cupboard than you're giving him credit for. Guys like Fischer and Sloan were Romar recruits who stayed and were primary contributors on those early Brad teams. That being said, I remember being pretty high on Brad after that initial spring (which also included IV) and the following few seasons when he got commitments from TL, KL, DP, and LM. For whatever reason, that type of recruiting success just stopped completely.

And can someone clarify, did Jason Edwin flunk out, or did he just transfer? He ended up having a pretty good junior and senior year at Kent State.

[Westy03]

I somewhat agree with you that Brad's best came from that spring, but Romar left more in the cupboard than you're giving him credit for. Guys like Fischer and Sloan were Romar recruits who stayed and were primary contributors on those early Brad teams. That being said, I remember being pretty high on Brad after that initial spring (which also included IV) and the following few seasons when he got commitments from TL, KL, DP, and LM. For whatever reason, that type of recruiting success just stopped completely.

And can someone clarify, did Jason Edwin flunk out, or did he just transfer? He ended up having a pretty good junior and senior year at Kent State.

He flunked out but somehow ended up at Kent State, not really sure how he got there.

[NashvilleBilliken]

And there was John somebody from Wyoming I think. Tall skinny white kid with sideburns. One plus year on the team then vanished.

John Seyfert

[Westy03]

John Seyfert

Yeah Soderberg ran him off, just ask Roy about it...

[jjray]

John Seyfert

That's the dude. Remembering these Romar "recruits" makes me very appreciative of Cockstrong. I must learn to be more tolerant when he fires off something crazy out of his ass.

[cheeseman]

He flunked out but somehow ended up at Kent State, not really sure how he got there.

He went to a JC and then ended up at Kent.

[Pistol]

John Seyfert

2001 Gatorade Player of the Year in Montana. He was in my class at SLU, the other freshman with Randy Pulley. Left after freshman year because of homesickness. He was raw but a nice rebounder and shot blocker. Couldn't shoot free throws at all. I think he could have had a Heinrich-like career at SLU.

Varner was an all-world practice player, which never really showed in games. He did hit the game-winning shot vs. Washington at home in 2001 with his whole family in attendance, which had to be the highlight of his career. That was awesome. Anyway, he was a guy that made his teammates better and I still think might be the best at setting screens of any player I've ever seen.

Perry was a SLU signee as Spoon retired. One of the only things he told Romar before leaving was, "You're really gonna like the little fella." So he wasn't originally a Romar recruit, but Romar convinced him to stick with SLU when Spoon left. Same with Braun and Diener. Coaches don't get nearly enough credit for that, getting the incoming class to stay. Romar was very, very well-liked by players. When he announced he was leaving, a lot of those guys threw in the towel at SLU, including academically. Pulley and Edwin were struggling anyway, and pretty much gave up at that point.

McClain, Edwin, Fisher, and Sloan were the guys in Romar's first true class. Varner also would have been in this one but sat a year because he followed Romar from Pepperdine. Phil Hunt was a walk-on for Romar who later got a scholarship because Brad never filled them. Kenny Brown, arguably the best defensive center in C-USA during his time here, was a JUCO transfer signed by Romar.

Was Jeffers initially recruited by Spoon or was that Romar's first signee? Either way, he was a JUCO transfer who only played under Romar.

Edwin, Pulley, and Seyfert left (Edwin and Pulley would have left anyway, academics aside) after Romar did. Like those three, McClain being at SLU was based on his relationship with Romar; he had 2 consecutive medical redshirts and left partially into his second one- frustrated, and never got along with Soderberg. Perry, Fisher, Sloan, Brown, Braun, Diener, Varner, and Hunt all stayed when Romar left. It was pretty much too late in any of their careers to leave. Soderberg's second year would have been absolutely horrible without Romar's recruits Fisher and Sloan. Marque carried the team his first year (with those two) and they took over after that. And like I said before, Perry, Braun, and Diener were Spoon recruits he got to stay. They all experienced 2 coaches leaving SLU.

Ohanon, Bryant, Drejaj, and Johnson were the members of Brad's spring class- not bad, all things considered. Reggie sat for a year under transfer rules. Ohanon never got along with Brad and never hit his potential. Drejaj had a nice career and I liked him start to finish, an underappreciated player. Johnson was a mistake signing who gave Brad a lot of chances to get rid of him, and Brad wouldn't based on his 'we live with our decisions' policy. 5 years of nothing from JJ. The Lisch and Liddell signings were the big ones, but the list of bad signings under Brad is too long: Johnson, Clarke, Newborne, Dixon, Ikeakor, Maguire, Knollmeyer, Eberhardt, Relphorde, Mitchell. I was fine with Husak, Frericks, Meyer, Polk, Brown, Eckerle, and Vouyoukas- obviously all had varying degrees of success but they all made sense as recruits.

Too long-winded at this point, but I guess in summary I don't see how some of Brad's fans and defenders rip on Romar like he was the worst thing to happen to SLU basketball. Sure, nobody believes me about the recruiting inroads he was making locally or some of the things he had coming in the near future, and I understand that. But all the guys he signed at SLU, even the ones that played one year and left, were great athletes who had high potential and nothing but respect for him.

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

2001 Gatorade Player of the Year in Montana. He was in my class at SLU, the other freshman with Randy Pulley. Left after freshman year because of homesickness. He was raw but a nice rebounder and shot blocker. Couldn't shoot free throws at all. I think he could have had a Heinrich-like career at SLU.

Varner was an all-world practice player, which never really showed in games. He did hit the game-winning shot vs. Washington at home in 2001 with his whole family in attendance, which had to be the highlight of his career. That was awesome. Anyway, he was a guy that made his teammates better and I still think might be the best at setting screens of any player I've ever seen.

Perry was a SLU signee as Spoon retired. One of the only things he told Romar before leaving was, "You're really gonna like the little fella." So he wasn't originally a Romar recruit, but Romar convinced him to stick with SLU when Spoon left. Same with Braun and Diener. Coaches don't get nearly enough credit for that, getting the incoming class to stay. Romar was very, very well-liked by players. When he announced he was leaving, a lot of those guys threw in the towel at SLU, including academically. Pulley and Edwin were struggling anyway, and pretty much gave up at that point.

McClain, Edwin, Fisher, and Sloan were the guys in Romar's first true class. Varner also would have been in this one but sat a year because he followed Romar from Pepperdine. Phil Hunt was a walk-on for Romar who later got a scholarship because Brad never filled them. Kenny Brown, arguably the best defensive center in C-USA during his time here, was a JUCO transfer signed by Romar.

Was Jeffers initially recruited by Spoon or was that Romar's first signee? Either way, he was a JUCO transfer who only played under Romar.

Edwin, Pulley, and Seyfert left (Edwin and Pulley would have left anyway, academics aside) after Romar did. Like those three, McClain being at SLU was based on his relationship with Romar; he had 2 consecutive medical redshirts and left partially into his second one- frustrated, and never got along with Soderberg. Perry, Fisher, Sloan, Brown, Braun, Diener, Varner, and Hunt all stayed when Romar left. It was pretty much too late in any of their careers to leave. Soderberg's second year would have been absolutely horrible without Romar's recruits Fisher and Sloan. Marque carried the team his first year (with those two) and they took over after that. And like I said before, Perry, Braun, and Diener were Spoon recruits he got to stay. They all experienced 2 coaches leaving SLU.

Ohanon, Bryant, Drejaj, and Johnson were the members of Brad's spring class- not bad, all things considered. Reggie sat for a year under transfer rules. Ohanon never got along with Brad and never hit his potential. Drejaj had a nice career and I liked him start to finish, an underappreciated player. Johnson was a mistake signing who gave Brad a lot of chances to get rid of him, and Brad wouldn't based on his 'we live with our decisions' policy. 5 years of nothing from JJ. The Lisch and Liddell signings were the big ones, but the list of bad signings under Brad is too long: Johnson, Clarke, Newborne, Dixon, Ikeakor, Maguire, Knollmeyer, Eberhardt, Relphorde, Mitchell. I was fine with Husak, Frericks, Meyer, Polk, Brown, Eckerle, and Vouyoukas- obviously all had varying degrees of success but they all made sense as recruits.

Too long-winded at this point, but I guess in summary I don't see how some of Brad's fans and defenders rip on Romar like he was the worst thing to happen to SLU basketball. Sure, nobody believes me about the recruiting inroads he was making locally or some of the things he had coming in the near future, and I understand that. But all the guys he signed at SLU, even the ones that played one year and left, were great athletes who had high potential and nothing but respect for him.

Pistol-

Thanks for the billiken basketball thesis, I will read this on vacation next week.

[bomble]

He went to a JC and then ended up at Kent.

In Cleveland the joke was always "Kent read Kent write Kent State." But then again. Josh Cribbs is a KSU alumni, so my opinion has changed.

[Pistol]

Pistol-

Thanks for the billiken basketball thesis, I will read this on vacation next week.

Look for it in stores from HarperCollins in October. Until then, print it out and enjoy it poolside or at the beach.