McCall named to Sun-Times all-state team

[Archy McNally]

Who on earth was hyping some of these guys? Seyfert was the Gatorade POTY for Montana, and I remember thinking that was a nifty achievement. I was around for the recruitment of the rest, and I remember thinking Maguire and Knollmeyer were huge stretches for D1 players, and never saw Newbourne or Eberhardt play before SLU, so just hoped they brought some toughness because both were undersized. Neither turned out to be as good as their JUCO coaches said, though.

I remember the hype. Newbourne was going to step in and be better than Sloan right away. Several on the board (regulars I might add) were saying this. Much better athlete than Sloan. After the fact, it was obvious that those posters were seeing what they wanted.

Polk was another one. I had an arguement with "3Star" and others stating that Polk in his 1st year won't step in and be better than Fisher as a senior. But Polk is a Vashon grad from StL, so everybody loved him and thought he was the next great player out of StL.

I remember a post that saw them in practice stating that team was the most athletic in years. This ended up being Soderberg's worst year. So yes, plenty on the board were hyping these guys.

How does that affect MM? The "hype" is raising a notch. Now that CE has done what he has done and MM looks like a pretty solid recruit, he is expected not to come in and play and learn the position he is probably recruited for (PG), but some on the board think he will start as a freshman at shooting guard over an experienced player who is probably 4 inches taller and has arguably been the 2nd best player over the conference portion of the season and played more minutes than anybody. Yep, I think the hype machine is going strong.

[doowop]

I'd expect McCall to be the 6th man at least at the start of the season. KC's pretty high up on RM's ladder. Which is fine by me. Kid's savvy and getting more aggressive each time out. Still, to have Loe would be awesome. With WR there should be a lot of balls flying into the stands. I'd also like to see someone develop as a slashing type 3 who can shoot reasonably well from outside. Maybe Femi or Jon Smith works on his handles and shooting over the summer. Is Evans a 3?

After seeing how badly Temple and Richmond got beaten, and how we struggled against them, SLU has got a long way to go to get good enough to make the NCAA and advance. It won't happen if SLU continues to play a guard who averages 36 to 38 minutes a game and scores only 2 to 6 points a game. SLU has to get a lot more point production from guards who get most of the playing time. Jordan played a lot less minutes than Cassity and Salecich and scored just one point less than the two of them combined in the CBI game, 3 points to their total of four. We have to have more offense than that. There is too much inconsistency. I know how heady a player Cassity is but, I would rather have a player a little less heady who will give the team a lot more offense. Maybe McCall and Evans will supply that offense.

[slufanskip]

I remember the hype. Newbourne was going to step in and be better than Sloan right away. Several on the board (regulars I might add) were saying this. Much better athlete than Sloan. After the fact, it was obvious that those posters were seeing what they wanted.

Polk was another one. I had an arguement with "3Star" and others stating that Polk in his 1st year won't step in and be better than Fisher as a senior. But Polk is a Vashon grad from StL, so everybody loved him and thought he was the next great player out of StL.

I remember a post that saw them in practice stating that team was the most athletic in years. This ended up being Soderberg's worst year. So yes, plenty on the board were hyping these guys.

How does that affect MM? The "hype" is raising a notch. Now that CE has done what he has done and MM looks like a pretty solid recruit, he is expected not to come in and play and learn the position he is probably recruited for (PG), but some on the board think he will start as a freshman at shooting guard over an experienced player who is probably 4 inches taller and has arguably been the 2nd best player over the conference portion of the season and played more minutes than anybody. Yep, I think the hype machine is going strong.

I think you are exagerating a bit. I don't remember anyone saying Polk as a Fr would be better than Fisher as a Sr. Who is saying MM will move KC to the bench?

[doowop]

Liddell?

That is a silly question. Yes Liddell. How many players have we had who were much better?

[doowop]

Get Loe, and we are in the top 25 at some point next season. You figure the A-10 should be a very good conference next year. At points this past season, the top 3 teams in the A-10 were in the top 25. I'm projecting SLU to finish in the top 3 next year so I'm thinking we could be in the top 25. Am I being a homer here?

Just because Loe is a McDonald's All American type talent does not mean we will make the top 25. North Carolina has nothing but high school All Americans and they should not have even been in the NIT tournament. I don't care if the ACC is supposedly a better conference than the A10.

[kshoe]

I remember the hype. Newbourne was going to step in and be better than Sloan right away. Several on the board (regulars I might add) were saying this. Much better athlete than Sloan. After the fact, it was obvious that those posters were seeing what they wanted.

Polk was another one. I had an arguement with "3Star" and others stating that Polk in his 1st year won't step in and be better than Fisher as a senior. But Polk is a Vashon grad from StL, so everybody loved him and thought he was the next great player out of StL.

I remember a post that saw them in practice stating that team was the most athletic in years. This ended up being Soderberg's worst year. So yes, plenty on the board were hyping these guys.

How does that affect MM? The "hype" is raising a notch. Now that CE has done what he has done and MM looks like a pretty solid recruit, he is expected not to come in and play and learn the position he is probably recruited for (PG), but some on the board think he will start as a freshman at shooting guard over an experienced player who is probably 4 inches taller and has arguably been the 2nd best player over the conference portion of the season and played more minutes than anybody. Yep, I think the hype machine is going strong.

this is all people remembering what they want to remember. Most of the positive thoughts on those guys Taj mentions were people just being wishful. There were plenty of people that thought those guys would at best be role players for us (myself included).

The positive comments on McCall and Evans are coming from people that having nothing to do with SLU (i.e. recruiting gurus). Are they perfect predictors of future success, of course not, but a significant majority of the nationally recognized kids that have come into SLU have done very well. I'm thinking of Marquee Perry, Jeffers, Love, Lisch, the Hughes class, etc. There have been very few busts when they are getting un-biased praise similar to what MM and Evans are getting.

[DeSmetBilliken]

Who on earth was hyping some of these guys? Seyfert was the Gatorade POTY for Montana, and I remember thinking that was a nifty achievement. I was around for the recruitment of the rest, and I remember thinking Maguire and Knollmeyer were huge stretches for D1 players, and never saw Newbourne or Eberhardt play before SLU, so just hoped they brought some toughness because both were undersized. Neither turned out to be as good as their JUCO coaches said, though.

If people were getting hyped about those guys, that's insane. I wasn't around for Cranford or Adkins, but I can understand being hyped about McClain. That kid was an incredible athlete. He had the dual misfortunes of suffering terrible injuries and seeing Romar (the only reason he came to SLU) leave before he could rehab. 2 medical redshirts in a row, one spent with a coach you don't even like (his interactions with Soderberg were less than amicable), and he was a long shot to hang around and prove himself.

I would call the vibe about the recruitment of the last 5 guys 'cautiously optimistic,' and I personally wasn't even that for the last two on your list. Maybe I missed the fever pitch on here for some of them.

Not all recruits pan out. But the level we're recruiting at now has a much, much higher success rate than it did during the Soderberg era.

Granted I was only 13 or 14 when his recruitment happened, but I know that there were some SLU fans that were pretty fired up about Ricky Cranford. In case you don't know, Cranford was 2 guard from NYC via prep school who had led NYC in scoring while in high school. Something like 30+ points a game. He was a year behind Larry Hughes, and people were thinking that a backcourt that could play Hughes as a sophomore, Cranford as a freshman, and incoming stud juco transfer Justin Love would be borderline unstoppable. As it turned out, Hughes went pro after one season, and Cranford showed very early on that he had essentially no experience playing on a team that utilized any form of an organized game plan. That left Love to be the primary scorer on the team, which he did capably, but the thought of that three headed monster was very exciting.

[Majerus Magic]

After seeing how badly Temple and Richmond got beaten, and how we struggled against them, SLU has got a long way to go to get good enough to make the NCAA and advance. It won't happen if SLU continues to play a guard who averages 36 to 38 minutes a game and scores only 2 to 6 points a game. SLU has to get a lot more point production from guards who get most of the playing time. Jordan played a lot less minutes than Cassity and Salecich and scored just one point less than the two of them combined in the CBI game, 3 points to their total of four. We have to have more offense than that. There is too much inconsistency. I know how heady a player Cassity is but, I would rather have a player a little less heady who will give the team a lot more offense. Maybe McCall and Evans will supply that offense.

I think you are seeing the Kyle from the beginning of the year.

There is no question he became more aggressive throughout the year.

@Dayton 4-7

Temple 1-9

Duquense 3-8

Xavier 2-10

Once conference started, he wasn't nearly as timid to shoot.

[JohnnyJumpUp]

On the shooter front, I felt most confident when JJ would shoot a 3 ball. Turns out, he leads the team with a 38% shooting percentage. Translating numbers into my confidence level is a silly proposition, but I'd like us to bring in a guy that can shoot it at about a 42-43% clip. I'm thinking I'll feel pretty good whenever that guy takes a shot.

At least we agree on something today

[b.hayes]

Also, if you remove any tuesday games as well as every other 3rd game, then he shot 41% for the year.

Also, Kyle is a career* 67% 3PT shooter.

*Career, excluding all games not played at Chaifetz against Dayton on the day of the Mardi Gras parade.

[kmbilliken]

Liddell?

Sure. He drove us all crazy and underachieved his senior year, but overall he had a nice career. I'm sure he had a career double figure scoring average and was the best rebounding quard we've had. We all think he could have done more, but he wasn't a bust.

[JohnnyJumpUp]

Also, Kyle is a career* 67% 3PT shooter.

*Career, excluding all games not played at Chaifetz against Dayton on the day of the Mardi Gras parade.

That had to be one of the most exciting SLU games I've seen in awhile.

[doowop]

I think you are seeing the Kyle from the beginning of the year.

There is no question he became more aggressive throughout the year.

@Dayton 4-7

Temple 1-9

Duquense 3-8

Xavier 2-10

Once conference started, he wasn't nearly as timid to shoot.

I am not talking about the number of shots he takes. I am talking hitting shots. I watched Kyle play in high school and I think he will have a better career than Roth, who I also saw. I like KC. I just wish he could shoot as accurately as Roth. Then he would add even more value to the team.

[joe_davola]

Just because Loe is a McDonald's All American type talent does not mean we will make the top 25. North Carolina has nothing but high school All Americans and they should not have even been in the NIT tournament. I don't care if the ACC is supposedly a better conference than the A10.

Right, but I think what you're missing is that a lot of people think we are legitimate tourney team next year WITHOUT him...with him, I think most folks will argue that we could crack the top 25.

[GOSLU68]

Where Thompson and Cotto all-state? Making 1st and 2nd team all-state in Illinois is big time.

I can't recall us getting many hyped recruits over the years that didn't pan out.

Lisch and Liddell panned out. The Hughes class panned out. The Claggett's class, Douglas and Gray, and Bonner all panned out. Upchurch was never given the chance to pan out. I can't recall any other recruits that were hyped by any body else otyher than our fan base.

The problem was other than the Douglas and Gray followed by Bonner followed by Upchurch years we never have had a string of good recruiting years until RM. He looks like he's doing it year after year which bodes well and will also make next year's recruiting interesting since we're already recruiting for a scholarship we don't have open this year and have no one sheduled to leave next year. I'm not complaining. This is way better than scouring for players in May, June and July and always having unfilled scholarships.

BT was definitely ALL State and top 100 but the All state was for very small schools-much like Missouri has about 5 levels of high school tournament

I don't have kids in high school but that is the general scenario; supposdely Foreman and the school Evans went to are bigger schools.

Is Cotto still in the USA, going to La Salle or whoever?

[b.hayes]

There were about 4,800 kids at Dwayne's Neuqua Valley in '08. There are about 2,000 at Foreman, but a lot of the CPS's have limited enrollment I believe. Either way, much bigger schools than wherever Brett and Ruben were at I would imagine.

[GOSLU68]

BT was definitely ALL State and top 100 but the All state was for very small schools-much like Missouri has about 5 levels of high school tournament

I don't have kids in high school but that is the general scenario; supposdely Foreman and the school Evans went to are bigger schools.

Is Cotto still in the USA, going to La Salle or whoever?

Sun Times All State must be a notch up over the Post Dispatch All Star or All State teams; not official but an important indication

[Billikan]

BT was definitely ALL State and top 100 but the All state was for very small schools-much like Missouri has about 5 levels of high school tournament

I don't have kids in high school but that is the general scenario; supposdely Foreman and the school Evans went to are bigger schools.

Is Cotto still in the USA, going to La Salle or whoever?

Thompson actually dropped like a rock late in his high school carreer and was not on the top 100 lists when he arrived. He was on those lists the summer of his junior year when we were recruiting him. I could never figure out what happened. Does anyone know how well he did with Brad this year?

[eastsidejoe]

Also, if you remove any tuesday games as well as every other 3rd game, then he shot 41% for the year.

are you back on this backhand. the last time i saw you it was oh I was wrong about KC. you are like bipolar on KC. Which is it Backhand, trounce him or like him??

[billikenbill]

After seeing how badly Temple and Richmond got beaten, and how we struggled against them, SLU has got a long way to go to get good enough to make the NCAA and advance. It won't happen if SLU continues to play a guard who averages 36 to 38 minutes a game and scores only 2 to 6 points a game. SLU has to get a lot more point production from guards who get most of the playing time. Jordan played a lot less minutes than Cassity and Salecich and scored just one point less than the two of them combined in the CBI game, 3 points to their total of four. We have to have more offense than that. There is too much inconsistency. I know how heady a player Cassity is but, I would rather have a player a little less heady who will give the team a lot more offense. Maybe McCall and Evans will supply that offense.

Really good post. Cassity and Salecich are workmanlike players who will give great effort but won't lead you to championships. You've got to have someone who can light it up from time to time and McCall may be that type of guy. SLU needs to be more athletic at the two and three, and needs one more power player at the four. It's going to be interesting to see what happens with Loe, and how the playing time will be distributed next year. Someone will find themselves as the odd man out, and will probably move on.

[Archy McNally]

I think you are exagerating a bit. I don't remember anyone saying Polk as a Fr would be better than Fisher as a Sr. Who is saying MM will move KC to the bench?

Here is just the first quote in this same thread that mentions it:

"Bills starting 5 next year - 2 Kwamain Mitchells, 2 Cody Ellis' and 1 Willie Reed. Kyle Cassity - 6th man. Nasty. "

Nope, I am not exagerating at all. I also remember the preseason prediction for records during Polk's freshmen year. My prediction of 18 wins was the second worst record of everybody so I guess I came in second that year. Somebody said we were going to be .500 so they won.

[slu72]

Really good post. Cassity and Salecich are workmanlike players who will give great effort but won't lead you to championships. You've got to have someone who can light it up from time to time and McCall may be that type of guy. SLU needs to be more athletic at the two and three, and needs one more power player at the four. It's going to be interesting to see what happens with Loe, and how the playing time will be distributed next year. Someone will find themselves as the odd man out, and will probably move on.

Let's give them this summer before we come to any final judgements on KC, CS, and JJ. Actually I kind of like JJ. He will take it to the hole and can hit the 3. There are times where KC takes his man off the dribble but doesn't do it enough. If he developed a consistent 3 pt shot, this would make it even easier for him to make those moves inside. CS has got to work on his shot.

[MB73]

On the shooter front, I felt most confident when JJ would shoot a 3 ball. Turns out, he leads the team with a 38% shooting percentage. Translating numbers into my confidence level is a silly proposition, but I'd like us to bring in a guy that can shoot it at about a 42-43% clip. I'm thinking I'll feel pretty good whenever that guy takes a shot.

When JJ is wide, wide open, square to the basket, footwork under control, catch and shoot, he is accurate from 3 pt land.

[MB73]

Get Loe, and we are in the top 25 at some point next season. You figure the A-10 should be a very good conference next year. At points this past season, the top 3 teams in the A-10 were in the top 25. I'm projecting SLU to finish in the top 3 next year so I'm thinking we could be in the top 25. Am I being a homer here?

Of course, I hope you are right, but top 25 is a definitely a reach. We did not even make the goddam NIT this yr. Loe would have to be Tyler Hansbrough-esque and a lot of others would have to improve, too.

[slufanskip]

Here is just the first quote in this same thread that mentions it:

"Bills starting 5 next year - 2 Kwamain Mitchells, 2 Cody Ellis' and 1 Willie Reed. Kyle Cassity - 6th man. Nasty. "

Nope, I am not exagerating at all. I also remember the preseason prediction for records during Polk's freshmen year. My prediction of 18 wins was the second worst record of everybody so I guess I came in second that year. Somebody said we were going to be .500 so they won.

that's a completely different thing then Polk as a freshman will be better than Fisher as a Sr. Maybe a person said it, I don't know, but you make it seem like it was the board norm.

You are exagerating.