McCall named to Sun-Times all-state team

[Quality Is Job 1]

Where Thompson and Cotto all-state? Making 1st and 2nd team all-state in Illinois is big time.

I can't recall us getting many hyped recruits over the years that didn't pan out.

Lisch and Liddell panned out. The Hughes class panned out. The Claggett's class, Douglas and Gray, and Bonner all panned out. Upchurch was never given the chance to pan out. I can't recall any other recruits that were hyped by any body else otyher than our fan base.

The problem was other than the Douglas and Gray followed by Bonner followed by Upchurch years we never have had a string of good recruiting years until RM. He looks like he's doing it year after year which bodes well and will also make next year's recruiting interesting since we're already recruiting for a scholarship we don't have open this year and have no one sheduled to leave next year. I'm not complaining. This is way better than scouring for players in May, June and July and always having unfilled scholarships.

I don't think the Sun-Times all-state team is the official all-State team of Illinois.

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

Get Loe, and we are in the top 25 at some point next season. You figure the A-10 should be a very good conference next year. At points this past season, the top 3 teams in the A-10 were in the top 25. I'm projecting SLU to finish in the top 3 next year so I'm thinking we could be in the top 25. Am I being a homer here?

No, Backhand completely agrees.

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

Where Thompson and Cotto all-state? Making 1st and 2nd team all-state in Illinois is big time.

I can't recall us getting many hyped recruits over the years that didn't pan out.

Lisch and Liddell panned out. The Hughes class panned out. The Claggett's class, Douglas and Gray, and Bonner all panned out. Upchurch was never given the chance to pan out. I can't recall any other recruits that were hyped by any body else otyher than our fan base.

The problem was other than the Douglas and Gray followed by Bonner followed by Upchurch years we never have had a string of good recruiting years until RM. He looks like he's doing it year after year which bodes well and will also make next year's recruiting interesting since we're already recruiting for a scholarship we don't have open this year and have no one sheduled to leave next year. I'm not complaining. This is way better than scouring for players in May, June and July and always having unfilled scholarships.

Liddell?

[slufanskip]

Agree that we have a hole there, but don't think it is as serious a problem as our lack of a banger (which i know Loe is not) and a player that can stroke it from outside. Also, I think Jon Smif will be a better SF next year than any kid we could recruit at this point.

Being a big who can play on the perimiter does not automatically exclude you from being a good defender and a good rebounder. Where Loe roams on the offensive end (if he signs) has nothing to do with where he plays defensively. Also CE will be a better defender and rebounder next year as he gets stronger and is in better condition next year. I think our perimiter shooting will be better next year. CE was really stroking until he lost his legs. KC ended up at 33% and I'd bet money he improves again next year. KM ended up at 37% and MM is supposed to be a pretty good shooter. CS will also improve. Remember since they moved the 3 pt line back you don't see that many high 40's 3 point shooters anymore. Though I doubt we'll have that one 45% marksman, I'll bet we have 3 in the high 30's to low 40's in CE, KC, and KM.

[bauman]

Being a big who can play on the perimiter does not automatically exclude you from being a good defender and a good rebounder. Where Loe roams on the offensive end (if he signs) has nothing to do with where he plays defensively. Also CE will be a better defender and rebounder next year as he gets stronger and is in better condition next year. I think our perimiter shooting will be better next year. CE was really stroking until he lost his legs. KC ended up at 33% and I'd bet money he improves again next year. KM ended up at 37% and MM is supposed to be a pretty good shooter. CS will also improve. Remember since they moved the 3 pt line back you don't see that many high 40's 3 point shooters anymore. Though I doubt we'll have that one 45% marksman, I'll bet we have 3 in the high 30's to low 40's in CE, KC, and KM.

I think (hope) that you can add McCall to your list.

[moytoy12]

Being a big who can play on the perimiter does not automatically exclude you from being a good defender and a good rebounder. Where Loe roams on the offensive end (if he signs) has nothing to do with where he plays defensively. Also CE will be a better defender and rebounder next year as he gets stronger and is in better condition next year. I think our perimiter shooting will be better next year. CE was really stroking until he lost his legs. KC ended up at 33% and I'd bet money he improves again next year. KM ended up at 37% and MM is supposed to be a pretty good shooter. CS will also improve. Remember since they moved the 3 pt line back you don't see that many high 40's 3 point shooters anymore. Though I doubt we'll have that one 45% marksman, I'll bet we have 3 in the high 30's to low 40's in CE, KC, and KM.

I'm under-educated on Loe, but I don't get the feeling that he's a banger, offensively or defensively. I hope i'm wrong.

We don't have an outside shooter where i feel like the shot is going to fall more often than not. That's the type of guy I hope McCall is.

When CS or KC shoots, I don't expect it to go in. When Cobbin shot, I thought it was going in.

[jimbofive]

When CS or KC shoots, I don't expect it to go in. When Cobbin shot, I thought it was going in.

gotta be honest, towards the end of the year, i was starting to feel that way about KC. or at least 50/50.

[moytoy12]

gotta be honest, towards the end of the year, i was starting to feel that way about KC. or at least 50/50.

That's just because he smacked you on the butt once and you developed a small man crush on him. I don't blame you. He is dreamy.

[Archy McNally]

KC is starting. He is not going to go from playing 38 minutes a game to coming off the bench.

Somebody on this board earlier said that MM is going to need to adjust his game to play point. And playing D at this level will be difficult too. He is going to have to be better that KM was as a freshmen to break into the starting lineup.

If CS shows the same improvement as he did over the last year, he is going to be hard to knock out of the starting lineup. If Ellis looks like Szerbiak or something like that next year, it could get us to a point where we play 3 big guys like that, but I have my doubt with the number of guards we are going to have.

I am just not counting on anybody being able to step in like Cody, since he is the 2nd best freshmen (Hughes being the best) I have seen in a SLU uniform in my opinion.

[jimbofive]

I am just not counting on anybody being able to step in like Cody, since he is the 2nd best freshmen (Hughes being the best) I have seen in a SLU uniform in my opinion.

so easy to forget the way KM came in last year as a freshman w/ KL and TL, both 4-year starters (or almost) and by the time conference play came around, he was leading the team, both on the court and in the stat book.

[JohnnyJumpUp]

so easy to forget the way KM came in last year as a freshman w/ KL and TL, both 4-year starters (or almost) and by the time conference play came around, he was leading the team, both on the court and in the stat book.

Agreed!

[slufanskip]

I'm under-educated on Loe, but I don't get the feeling that he's a banger, offensively or defensively. I hope i'm wrong.

We don't have an outside shooter where i feel like the shot is going to fall more often than not. That's the type of guy I hope McCall is.

When CS or KC shoots, I don't expect it to go in. When Cobbin shot, I thought it was going in.

Kyle's 3 point shooting final stats were a bit misleading. If you take away a 9 game non conf stretch ND through BG he shot 39% for the year. He shot 37% from the start of conference play.

Are you considering Kyle's soph season against Cobbins soph season? Sometimes when we remember a player we remember them at their best

[Taj79]

The hyping of our recruits has been a self-inflicted wound for the most part. Cranford. Adkins. McClain. Seyfert. Newbourne. Eberhardt. Knollmeyer. Maguire. As for Lisch and Liddell panning out --- maybe one or one-and-a-half out of those two. Hughes panned out --- the rest went to pot without him driving the show. I can't help but wonder how good Baniak, Heinrich and Tatum might have become had the legned extended his stay. I think if we were the coach we would all self-hype .... we'd have to or we would be ousted for not doing the job. I just believe that this staff seems to have an eye for developing AND more importantly an eye for recognzing who fits just ubder the radar.

Next year, my educated guess is this: Temple and Xavier will be the favorites. Temple will return Allen, Eric, Moore and Fernandez. They have to replace Brooks and a little more moxie from a senior like Guzman. But Dunphy will get a recruit or two. Xavier only loses Love and has Frease to step in --- although i think Kenny is too slow for the college game. That is if Crawford hangs around. Crawford is technically a senior ... fifth year high schooler, frosh at Indiana during a normal sophomore year, sophomore-but-really-junior-year sit out year due to transfer, and now this year as a senior-sophomore. He's as mature as its going to get in my book. If he treturns, they are a favorite. If not, second tier.

Second tier teams are out there in Dayton and Rhode Island. Dayton loses its entire backcourt in Lowery, Warren, Perry, Marques Johnson and throw in center Heulsman. They have the point from Oak Hill but what if Gregory bolts to Iowa? Understand they have a transfer from Drake at point who's good but each will learn a new system and who knows what happens if the coach leaves? Rhode loses Ulmer and Cothren and I didn't see much otherwise. Richmond can shoot, but he made all his shots in one half in AC and unfortunately it was against us. He's inconsistent and small. You cover him the same way you do Redford.

Charlotte was exposed, is just not that good plus they lost Lutz and point guard Harris. Who gets the ball inside to Braswell and Spears? What if the new coach changes styles? I wonder what would have happen if Michael Beasely HAD gone to Charlotte and not KState with Huggins and the assistant coach?

The Bonnies are on the up arrow. The Nicholson kid has lots of potential. He lost his outside help though so let's see. Duquesne has everyone of note back, I think. Fordham, UMass, and GeeDub showed no real improvement and two seniors key to those teams -- Harris at Umass and Hollis at GW --- are gone. Plus Karl Hobbs can't coach.

Which leaves us and Richmond. Richmond lost Gonzalvez and Butler but should move Cedric-Martel and Kevin Smith up. The loss of those two will mean some things will change but with Anderson and Harper, they still look tough. Put then back in the top tier. Which leaves us.

We should very easily be top four, what with everyone back plus McCall and Evans. I think we have to lose someone to add Loe. I don't think we will know much until the season is over. I'd hate to lose Smith or Remuken at thi spoint. Which means the onus points to the guards. I like the way Jordan progressed over the year. I like that Salecich seemed to come up off the floor after a bad start. Reid and John are unknowns at this point. That's where Loe might come from.

1. Xavier, 2. Richmond, 3. Temple, 4. Saint Louis, 5. Duquesne, 6. Bonaventure, 7. Rhodey, 8. GeeDub, 9. Dayton, 10. La Salle, 11. Charlotte, 12. Umass, 13. St. Joe's, 14. Fordham.

[moytoy12]

Kyle's 3 point shooting final stats were a bit misleading. If you take away a 9 game non conf stretch ND through BG he shot 39% for the year. He shot 37% from the start of conference play.

Are you considering Kyle's soph season against Cobbins soph season? Sometimes when we remember a player we remember them at their best

LOL. Sorry skip, but a 9 game stretch, even early in the season is material in my opinion and tough to disregard.

No, I wasn't comparing players. Just pointing out that I would like to see an outside shooter in a Bills uniform where I have high confidence in the shooter and using Cobbin as an example. I don't have that confidence in either KC or CS.

Actually, I think a sophomore KC is probably a better all around player than Cobbin was at any point in his career.

[slufanskip]

LOL. Sorry skip, but a 9 game stretch, even early in the season is material in my opinion and tough to disregard.

No, I wasn't comparing players. Just pointing out that I would like to see an outside shooter in a Bills uniform where I have high confidence in the shooter and using Cobbin as an example. I don't have that confidence in either KC or CS.

Actually, I think a sophomore KC is probably a better all around player than Cobbin was at any point in his career.

I'm not saying disregard it, just pointing out that most of the year he shot better than his season ending stats show. His 3pt % since the start of conference play was 37% and imo more indicative of the shooter Kyle is. I believe he'll improve on that.

Using Cobbin as an example? Cobbin as a Sr or Cobbin as a soph. Cobbin also had a closer 3 pt line. I couldn't find Cobbin's numbers at SLU.

I get what you are saying, but I think we have good shooters now who will only get better.

[JohnnyJumpUp]

LOL. Sorry skip, but a 9 game stretch, even early in the season is material in my opinion and tough to disregard.

No, I wasn't comparing players. Just pointing out that I would like to see an outside shooter in a Bills uniform where I have high confidence in the shooter and using Cobbin as an example. I don't have that confidence in either KC or CS.

Actually, I think a sophomore KC is probably a better all around player than Cobbin was at any point in his career.

Jordan shoots almost 40% from 3pt, but come next year may not get much clock. He didn't have 100 attempts from 3pt this year and probably will have less next year. When he got an open look from 3pt, I almost always expected it to go in this year.

[moytoy12]

I'm not saying disregard it, just pointing out that most of the year he shot better than his season ending stats show. His 3pt % since the start of conference play was 37% and imo more indicative of the shooter Kyle is. I believe he'll improve on that.

Using Cobbin as an example? Cobbin as a Sr or Cobbin as a soph. Cobbin also had a closer 3 pt line. I couldn't find Cobbin's numbers at SLU.

I get what you are saying, but I think we have good shooters now who will only get better.

Probably Cobbin as a senior. Regardless, I just want someone that when they shoot the ball I feel that it is more likely to go in than not. I want a shooter. I don't get the warm fuzzies when either CS or KC shoots it.

I agree with you, I think they will only get better.

[slufanskip]

Probably Cobbin as a senior. Regardless, I just want someone that when they shoot the ball I feel that it is more likely to go in than not. I want a shooter. I don't get the warm fuzzies when either CS or KC shoots it.

I agree with you, I think they will only get better.

The line being further away makes a huge difference. It's pretty rare to have a freshman or soph that you feel that confident about. Kevin Lisch's career 3pt % was .395.

[moytoy12]

The line being further away makes a huge difference. It's pretty rare to have a freshman or soph that you feel that confident about. Kevin Lisch's career 3pt % was .395.

Good points. I'm not disagreeing with your reasons. I'm just telling you what I want. Now give me a damn 50% 3 point shooter!

[Pistol]

The hyping of our recruits has been a self-inflicted wound for the most part. Cranford. Adkins. McClain. Seyfert. Newbourne. Eberhardt. Knollmeyer. Maguire. As for Lisch and Liddell panning out --- maybe one or one-and-a-half out of those two. Hughes panned out --- the rest went to pot without him driving the show. I can't help but wonder how good Baniak, Heinrich and Tatum might have become had the legned extended his stay. I think if we were the coach we would all self-hype .... we'd have to or we would be ousted for not doing the job. I just believe that this staff seems to have an eye for developing AND more importantly an eye for recognzing who fits just ubder the radar.

Who on earth was hyping some of these guys? Seyfert was the Gatorade POTY for Montana, and I remember thinking that was a nifty achievement. I was around for the recruitment of the rest, and I remember thinking Maguire and Knollmeyer were huge stretches for D1 players, and never saw Newbourne or Eberhardt play before SLU, so just hoped they brought some toughness because both were undersized. Neither turned out to be as good as their JUCO coaches said, though.

If people were getting hyped about those guys, that's insane. I wasn't around for Cranford or Adkins, but I can understand being hyped about McClain. That kid was an incredible athlete. He had the dual misfortunes of suffering terrible injuries and seeing Romar (the only reason he came to SLU) leave before he could rehab. 2 medical redshirts in a row, one spent with a coach you don't even like (his interactions with Soderberg were less than amicable), and he was a long shot to hang around and prove himself.

I would call the vibe about the recruitment of the last 5 guys 'cautiously optimistic,' and I personally wasn't even that for the last two on your list. Maybe I missed the fever pitch on here for some of them.

Not all recruits pan out. But the level we're recruiting at now has a much, much higher success rate than it did during the Soderberg era.

[slufanskip]

Good points. I'm not disagreeing with your reasons. I'm just telling you what I want. Now give me a damn 50% 3 point shooter!

I'd like to see it also, but there were 2 players who took 100 3pt attempts last year and shot 50% or over in all of D1. There were only 23 who shot 45% or higher with 100 attempts or more. There were only 5 at 45% or higher with over 150 attempts

[moytoy12]

I'd like to see it also, but there were 2 players who took 100 3pt attempts last year and shot 50% or over in all of D1. There were only 23 who shot 45% or higher with 100 attempts or more. There were only 5 at 45% or higher with over 150 attempts

Skip, I'm kidding on the 50%. 49.4% is just fine.

[moytoy12]

On the shooter front, I felt most confident when JJ would shoot a 3 ball. Turns out, he leads the team with a 38% shooting percentage. Translating numbers into my confidence level is a silly proposition, but I'd like us to bring in a guy that can shoot it at about a 42-43% clip. I'm thinking I'll feel pretty good whenever that guy takes a shot.

[slufanskip]

Skip, I'm kidding on the 50%. 49.4% is just fine.

Seriously, I just don't think it's going to be an issue next year.

CE - 42%

KC - 39%

KM - 38%

MM - 35%

CS - 33%

Though we may not have 1 45% guy and Ellis may be close, we'll have 5 guys that will play good minutes and can hit at any time.

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

Kyle's 3 point shooting final stats were a bit misleading. If you take away a 9 game non conf stretch ND through BG he shot 39% for the year. He shot 37% from the start of conference play.

Are you considering Kyle's soph season against Cobbins soph season? Sometimes when we remember a player we remember them at their best

Also, if you remove any tuesday games as well as every other 3rd game, then he shot 41% for the year.