Season off to a bummer start

[cheeseman]

Brian. You and Roy are talking about 2 different items: ticket sales promotions and sports marketing are not exactly the same. Yes, SLU is definitely doing a good job trying to sell season tickets. Good job for that SLU. If successful, we will increased revenue and no empty seats in the new arena. At the same time, SLU has done nothing to promote the team. Why not take a lesson from the Blues who have a bunch of young, talented guys with much promise to go with a few solid veterans - sound familiar? Various guys from owner Dave Checkets (Fr. Biondi) to GM John Davidson (Chris May) to assistant GM/director Larry Pleau (our assistant coaches/Doug M.) to even head Andy Murray (RM) have talked the team up on radio, tv, in the paper, on the net, etc. Running sales ads without marketing seems hollow.

Oh, I forgot. Conventional wisdom says no one talks about basketball at this time of the year. Instead, we need to be like Mizzou (also no talk about them now) and simply sit back and, like them, enjoy our beautiful 1/2 empty building. Memo to conventional wisdom: Grandpa, people really will/do watch a cable show that it dedicated to 24 hours per day; sports talk radio (24 hours per day) really will/does work; and sports, in general, has become year round for both players and fans. Welcome to 2008.

If you are referring to my comment that said that this time of year it is football that gets the attention then I am sorry you don't understand the natural flow of things. My point was that nobody is really talking about BB now so no on should be surprised that you hear very little about the Bills. By the way, I am not a grandpa. Try to make a cogent comment about the current situation and some turn to sarcastic responses. - no wonder people have cut back their posts.

[Scoop]

Anyone else feeling a lack of enthusiasm for this season? Strange, a brand new state of the art facility, which we've screamed for for years, a top 40 incoming class, a possible HOF head coach, two Sr's who have been two of SLU's best players....and the board is not talking as much about it as we have in the past. Of course, the schedule, the lack of any TV time, and no radio contract at this point are really disappointing. I guess we're all too worried about our 401k's, home values, etc so Billiken hoops tends to fall on the priority list. Honestly though, in this offseason I've sensed the board's interest is way down from previous years. Wonder why?

You know it sucks when the latest news on the homepage is a month old and the season is a month away.

[Taj79]

You missed my point Pistol .... you can talk all you want between now and December. There;s no law against that. But 72 wants substantial information at a time when no one has it. Its all rumor and hearsay. Once December rolls around, and you can see the freshmen in action, then there will be multiple opinions on multiple things. Right now, I don't care to do over-and-unders on how many wins this team will post. I don't care who wants to see which freshman play the most. I also don't care about who the starting five will be --- in my book its the five that finish and what's on the scoreboard that counts. The rest of this is banal cahtter. If the doors to the practice gym also stay closed, what are we all going to do then? makeit up I guess. then the trolls can make it up also and here we go again.

I also understand that there are 24 hour sports stations as there are All sports talk radio as the Clock points out. But short of the 25 or so people on this board, that's about all Saint Louis University has. Other than us no-life idiots, there isn't a whole lot of clamoring for what the Billikens are doing right now. As far as tradition goes, our #1 sport is in action RIGHT NOW. How's the interest in that going? I suspect there are more than the 25 of us out there but I can't see all the fans in Billiken blue out there for the sea of Longhorn Orange, Sooner Red, Gator Blue, Penn State blah, and Trojan Crimson.

What is our most significant item right now? In men's basketball? Its the coach. And there have been many other storied coaches with many other stories out there. Jim Phelan. Ray Meyer. Louie Carneseca. Al Maguire. Dick Vitale. Only one of those five won a national title. Ours hasn't won a title and never may. And despite all his so-called media hipness, he doesn't like to be in public or so it seems. Plus, do you want to sell the coach or the team? I'd say the team and while Chaifetz is beautiful and all that jazz, please call me as a network when you win.

My point to 72 was you don't come on here trolling for chatter and information and then throw three other topics to talk about into the post. With nothing to discuss basketball-wise, where do you think the conversation is going to go.

As for roy's point, we'll agree to disagree. A basketball advertising program smack in the middle of the football season in an apathetic town seems to be a waste of money if you ask me. There are still some who probably believe that firing Lanahan means the season will be saved. I doubt that. But let's get back after the break and let them lose some more. With Mizzou's football hopes up in smoke with a loss to Okie State and a sure loss next week at Texas, that fever will subside. Let Midnight Madness be your initiator now. Less luster to compete with. Play off what's been done already, as pointed out by footes and brian, and now take the initiative. Football is king in this country. Let the two local fires burn bright or burn out as they now seem to be doing. Then make a play ala the Blues. As for Tommie and Kevin being two future Billiken hall of famers, so what? What did they ever win? Good players? Absolutely. Billiken Hall of Fame? Absolutely. Right there next to David Burns. And Luther Burden. And Kelvin Henderson. And Carvin Norman. And Reggie Bryant. Good enough for Billiken standards but who wants more?

We are like the colonist versus the British. We can't meet straight up on the field of battle and even hope to break even. We have to shoot from behind the trees and cover right now. What if the freshmen don't pan out ---- has happened before, right? Even with Tommie and Kevin, you can't win two-on-five. I'm content to wait and see right now and not set the expectations bar too, too high.

Sure, we can site around and discuss the practices. I don't care to do that because I always fall back to my good friend roy's assessment some years ago. I think it was Sloan's senior year and the reprots from the practices were glowing. Most talented Billiken team ever, I think the review said. And how did that turn out? I'll crawl back into my hole, now. See you again in December.

[Clock_Tower]

If you are referring to my comment that said that this time of year it is football that gets the attention then I am sorry you don't understand the natural flow of things. My point was that nobody is really talking about BB now so no on should be surprised that you hear very little about the Bills. By the way, I am not a grandpa. Try to make a cogent comment about the current situation and some turn to sarcastic responses. - no wonder people have cut back their posts.

Cheese. My comments were not directed at you personally. After re-reading the posts, can kind of see that how you think I am personally attacking you but I wasn't. Had I meant to direct comments your way, I would have started by addressing the post to you.

Instead, I am simply mocking the notion, espoused by others as well, that the average sports fan listen and talk about more than 1 topic at a time. Taj, do I expect basketball to replace or rival football at this time of year? Of course, not. Instead, my comments of "Grandpa" was more directed to the "old conventional wisdom" conservative approach of the SLU athletic department and others who cannot try to get a message out about the upcoming season (HOF coach, new arena, 7 new players, 2 great returners) with 5 minutes of radio here, a couple lines of print there and 2 minutes on the Sunday evening sports shows.

[Quality Is Job 1]

If you are referring to my comment that said that this time of year it is football that gets the attention then I am sorry you don't understand the natural flow of things. My point was that nobody is really talking about BB now so no on should be surprised that you hear very little about the Bills. By the way, I am not a grandpa. Try to make a cogent comment about the current situation and some turn to sarcastic responses. - no wonder people have cut back their posts.

"Memo to conventional wisdom:... Grandpa...." Somehow, Cheese, I don't think clock_tower was referring to you, or anyone else, specifically.

[billiken_roy]

Let Midnight Madness be your initiator now. Less luster to compete with.

there's going to be a midnight madness?

thanks taj for indirectly making my point.

[STL Hoops Insider]

You know it sucks when the latest news on the homepage is a month old and the season is a month away.

It only takes a few posters to run off some enthusiastic members. Too much negativity and too many grudges.

[Malibubill]

FYI - for what it is worth, Los Angeles has some pretty good college basketball programs (UCLA, USC), and I have not heard or read a single word about either program so far this fall (to say nothing of Pepperdine's basketball program which is probably the better comparision to SLU's). Nor have I seen any ads for basketball tickets. My guess is the talk will start when practice start. While the practices may be closed to the average fan, the media will have access, and that is when you will start to see the media (print, radio and TV) start to talk about the basketball season. That is when SLU should start the push. I think SLU would be well advised to wait until the media is interested. I agree with others who wrote that any attempts to promote the program before then would be like putting the cart before the horse. It just ain't worth it.

[billiken_roy]

FYI - for what it is worth, Los Angeles has some pretty good college basketball programs (UCLA, USC), and I have not heard or read a single word about either program so far this fall (to say nothing of Pepperdine's basketball program which is probably the better comparision to SLU's). Nor have I seen any ads for basketball tickets. My guess is the talk will start when practice start. While the practices may be closed to the average fan, the media will have access, and that is when you will start to see the media (print, radio and TV) start to talk about the basketball season. That is when SLU should start the push. I think SLU would be well advised to wait until the media is interested. I agree with others who wrote that any attempts to promote the program before then would be like putting the cart before the horse. It just ain't worth it.

let me know when slu is on the same level as ucla and usc national and local reputationwise.

we need to do more to make up ground when the oppotunity is there.

[Cowboy]

we need to do more to make up ground when the oppotunity is there.

i agree with this statement

however Apr through Sep and maybe Oct is not when the opportunity is there

[Scoop]

It only takes a few posters to run off some enthusiastic members. Too much negativity and too many grudges.

I'm one of the most optimistic posters on here. But the season is three weeks away and we hear nothing. Come on.

[Malibubill]

let me know when slu is on the same level as ucla and usc national and local reputationwise.

we need to do more to make up ground when the oppotunity is there.

[Malibubill]

let me know when slu is on the same level as ucla and usc national and local reputationwise.

we need to do more to make up ground when the oppotunity is there.

Ah Roy there you go again. I never said that SLU is on the same level as UCLA or USC as you intimate. In fact, I specifically said that the better comparison was to Pepperdine.

It is a simple cost-benefit analysis. The powers at SLU believe that it does not make sense to spend money promoting a product now when it can get much more out of its expenditures once the media is interested and part of the process. That seems like a reasonable approach to me.

[slu72]

Ah Roy there you go again. I never said that SLU is on the same level as UCLA or USC as you intimate. In fact, I specifically said that the better comparison was to Pepperdine.

It is a simple cost-benefit analysis. The powers at SLU believe that it does not make sense to spend money promoting a product now when it can get much more out of its expenditures once the media is interested and part of the process. That seems like a reasonable approach to me.

Taj Ma Hal '79. my point was look at the topics on the board, very little to do with the team. Now maybe I should have left out concerns about 401ks, as I agree, this board has a tendency to quickly get off topic. The overall point was, as compared to previous years when we seemed to have a whole lot going against Billiken hoops, we had numerous hoops topics on the board. Today, the chatter about hoops is way way way down. Even if it was someone catching a glimpse of an "unofficial" scrimmages at WP and reporting how Vashun Newborne was a natural leader with a solid 15 footer, or that IV looked slow and fat. That was at least something to keep up the interest of the Billiken hoops junkies that post here and had nothing to do with the general public or marketing the team in the fall. More simply stated, my post was to question why WE are not talking more about hoops when it appears the program has taken a huge leap forward with new facilities, HOF coach, a supposed top 40 incoming class.

[Cowboy]

Taj Ma Hal '79. my point was look at the topics on the board, very little to do with the team. Now maybe I should have left out concerns about 401ks, as I agree, this board has a tendency to quickly get off topic. The overall point was, as compared to previous years when we seemed to have a whole lot going against Billiken hoops, we had numerous hoops topics on the board. Today, the chatter about hoops is way way way down. Even if it was someone catching a glimpse of an "unofficial" scrimmages at WP and reporting how Vashun Newborne was a natural leader with a solid 15 footer, or that IV looked slow and fat. That was at least something to keep up the interest of the Billiken hoops junkies that post here and had nothing to do with the general public or marketing the team in the fall. More simply stated, my post was to question why WE are not talking more about hoops when it appears the program has taken a huge leap forward with new facilities, HOF coach, a supposed top 40 incoming class.

-slu72 i agree that offseason we do not get much hoops discussion here, but there needs to be something to talk about and there is not much right now

-we all wish we had some more verbals to discuss, hopefully on nov 12 or whatever date we are talking about signings and who we beat out for players

-i wonder if there are any students that are reading and not posting, or if they have a different place to talk hoops when there is hoops to discuss?

-perhaps i am wrongly thinking there are some students that want talk hoops with us

-even if they could say i talked to tommie and his individual workouts are going great or barry is in my chemistry lab and he said he lost 25 pounds

-ot-i wonder how the prez is doing? i still think the U messed up by not hiring her

-next week after the bclub meeting there should be a pickup in posts, i would guess, at least program related

[Clock_Tower]

-slu72 i agree that offseason we do not get much hoops discussion here, but there needs to be something to talk about and there is not much right now

-we all wish we had some more verbals to discuss, hopefully on nov 12 or whatever date we are talking about signings and who we beat out for players

-i wonder if there are any students that are reading and not posting, or if they have a different place to talk hoops when there is hoops to discuss?

-perhaps i am wrongly thinking there are some students that want talk hoops with us

-even if they could say i talked to tommie and his individual workouts are going great or barry is in my chemistry lab and he said he lost 25 pounds

-ot-i wonder how the prez is doing? i still think the U messed up by not hiring her

-next week after the bclub meeting there should be a pickup in posts, i would guess, at least program related

Cowboy. Good post. You're right. We are missing the student perspective. All of their efforts to organize, to plan their own pep rallies, their putting up banners to welcome possible recruits, their activities in planning Midnight Madness... All of this would fill the news gaps and be positive.

Is it just me, or didn't someone post awhile back that RM, this year, was likely to have something like but different than the Midnight Madness? Will there possibly be an open practice for the students in a few weeks?

Also, because RM received verbal commits 5 of the 7 freshmen nearly 1 1/2 years ago, we have already speculated and posted quite abit about them. In contrast, Brad would sign unknowns in the Spring and we'd be scrambling to see how tall the kid really is, whether or not he could shoot, etc. the first day he came on campus. Possibly, this can explain things as well.

[slufanskip]

This one is simple guys, there isn't anything to talk about because there literally isn't anything to talk about. No one knows who RM is recruiting, and if and when we get a name, no one has seen him play. No one can watch practices, so we get no reports on how players are doing.

[bauman]

This one is simple guys, there isn't anything to talk about because there literally isn't anything to talk about. No one knows who RM is recruiting, and if and when we get a name, no one has seen him play. No one can watch practices, so we get no reports on how players are doing.

Skip I hesitate to take part in this discussion since I (along with Clock Tower) have been forever labeled as "negative" by one of our younger fans from the So. Co. area. This label in spite of the fact that I have probably had season tickets since before he was even born and been a proud Billiken basketball supporter since the mid-50s. I believe that we should be able to give our honest opinions, even when we think that things are not as they should be. However, I would also hope that my many posts over the past few years trying to analyze the team and various related topics would not all be considered negative.

Ok, I did not feel that IV was the second coming, but I have to admit that he was better than I thought, at least during his junior year;

I believe that TL has been a good Billiken, but that's it. He, along with KL were great gets for BS, but with a few exceptions TL has not performed up to all our hopes when he was recruited;

I believe that our new AD is almost invisible, at a time when he needs to step out of the shadows and become a true spokesman for the Ath. program;

I believe that it is too early to judge the effectiveness of RM as a HC, but not too early to, at least have an opinion as to his contributions as a builder of the image of the Program;

(At a time when we are trying to build excitement for a young team in a new-world-class arena, both CM & RM need to try to develop some "Billiken Buzz")

While I understand and agree with the premise that we want our Freshmen class to experience some winning as they gain confidence, I also am extremely disappointed in our OOC Home schedule. We have 10 OOC games and but for being a season ticket holder I can not conceive of buying a ticket to 9/10 games-only BC would get me down to the Chai. Is there anyone in Billikenland who wants to see,

Harris-Stowe, NAIA or whatever,

UMSL, D2,

Kent St,

Savannah St.

Samford (when did they drop the "Brown"?,

USC Upstate,

Liberty,

UM-BC, and finally the well-known and highly respected powerhouse,

NC A&T.

I'm sorry, but I personally don't feel that these games are worth $25 each per seat. It is clear why they did not release the schedule until after they had the Money from people who bought their season tickets at the "normal" time.

To repeat a prior point, I still believe that a number of local sportstalk shows would be more than receptive to a weekly callin from CM/RM/an Asst. Coach. I am willing to concede that at the present time football is king, but maybe 590 or 1380 would be willing to replace some of the non-sports (often poor taste) banter with some general Billiken info. As a previous poster pointed out, this should be an exciting time to be a SLU MBB fan---take a lesson from the Blues on how to promote a group of exciting newcomers to a team.

One final question for BROY, who were you referring to as a local media rep who might be changing his anti-SLU stripes?

If the above is too negative for the glass is overflowing crowd, I am sorry. However, what part of the above is wrong? Should I not want Billiken talk on the airwaves? Should I be very, very positive about our OOC schedule? Should I want to have CM & RM remain part of the federal govt witness protection program? Should I have jumped on the fire-BS bandwagon as many or our "positive posters" did? Would that have somehow made me "not negative"?

If being willing to point out things which can be improved (and even offering suggestions on how to do so) makes one Negative, then I'm guilty as charged.

[slufanskip]

Skip I hesitate to take part in this discussion since I (along with Clock Tower) have been forever labeled as "negative" by one of our younger fans from the So. Co. area. This label in spite of the fact that I have probably had season tickets since before he was even born and been a proud Billiken basketball supporter since the mid-50s. I believe that we should be able to give our honest opinions, even when we think that things are not as they should be. However, I would also hope that my many posts over the past few years trying to analyze the team and various related topics would not all be considered negative.

Ok, I did not feel that IV was the second coming, but I have to admit that he was better than I thought, at least during his junior year;

I believe that TL has been a good Billiken, but that's it. He, along with KL were great gets for BS, but with a few exceptions TL has not performed up to all our hopes when he was recruited;

I believe that our new AD is almost invisible, at a time when he needs to step out of the shadows and become a true spokesman for the Ath. program;

I believe that it is too early to judge the effectiveness of RM as a HC, but not too early to, at least have an opinion as to his contributions as a builder of the image of the Program;

(At a time when we are trying to build excitement for a young team in a new-world-class arena, both CM & RM need to try to develop some "Billiken Buzz")

While I understand and agree with the premise that we want our Freshmen class to experience some winning as they gain confidence, I also am extremely disappointed in our OOC Home schedule. We have 10 OOC games and but for being a season ticket holder I can not conceive of buying a ticket to 9/10 games-only BC would get me down to the Chai. Is there anyone in Billikenland who wants to see,

Harris-Stowe, NAIA or whatever,

UMSL, D2,

Kent St,

Savannah St.

Samford (when did they drop the "Brown"?,

USC Upstate,

Liberty,

UM-BC, and finally the well-known and highly respected powerhouse,

NC A&T.

I'm sorry, but I personally don't feel that these games are worth $25 each per seat. It is clear why they did not release the schedule until after they had the Money from people who bought their season tickets at the "normal" time.

To repeat a prior point, I still believe that a number of local sportstalk shows would be more than receptive to a weekly callin from CM/RM/an Asst. Coach. I am willing to concede that at the present time football is king, but maybe 590 or 1380 would be willing to replace some of the non-sports (often poor taste) banter with some general Billiken info. As a previous poster pointed out, this should be an exciting time to be a SLU MBB fan---take a lesson from the Blues on how to promote a group of exciting newcomers to a team.

One final question for BROY, who were you referring to as a local media rep who might be changing his anti-SLU stripes?

If the above is too negative for the glass is overflowing crowd, I am sorry. However, what part of the above is wrong? Should I not want Billiken talk on the airwaves? Should I be very, very positive about our OOC schedule? Should I want to have CM & RM remain part of the federal govt witness protection program? Should I have jumped on the fire-BS bandwagon as many or our "positive posters" did? Would that have somehow made me "not negative"?

If being willing to point out things which can be improved (and even offering suggestions on how to do so) makes one Negative, then I'm guilty as charged.

I didn't say you were negative, and I agree with everything you said. My post chiding Clock for being negative wasn't about whether or not he is or isn't negative ... It was tongue in cheek about him reminding us he's been labeled as negative in what seems like every other post. Clock has attended a meeting of the secret society ... so I feel an obligation to give him crap as often as possible.

Without a doubt there are many things SLU could do better regarding mens basketball and probably every other sport.

[bauman]

I didn't say you were negative, and I agree with everything you said. My post chiding Clock for being negative wasn't about whether or not he is or isn't negative ... It was tongue in cheek about him reminding us he's been labeled as negative in what seems like every other post. Clock has attended a meeting of the secret society ... so I feel an obligation to give him crap as often as possible.

Without a doubt there are many things SLU could do better regarding mens basketball and probably every other sport.

Sorry Skip. My knowledge of how to post on this message board is lacking. I did not mean to indicate that you were calling me negative, so if I was more internet messasge board savvy I would not have made my post as a Reply to you-your post just happened to be the last one when I made my post. Sorry for the confusion.

In general, I agree with the overall point of this thread. We need more basketball talk. If only RM would provide a method for that to happen, e.g. one hour per week of open practice at least during the early weeks when no game planning is taking place.

[slufanskip]

Sorry Skip. My knowledge of how to post on this message board is lacking. I did not mean to indicate that you were calling me negative, so if I was more internet messasge board savvy I would not have made my post as a Reply to you-your post just happened to be the last one when I made my post. Sorry for the confusion.

In general, I agree with the overall point of this thread. We need more basketball talk. If only RM would provide a method for that to happen, e.g. one hour per week of open practice at least during the early weeks when no game planning is taking place.

No big deal. I agree, I don't really get the need for the absolute secrecy regarding practice. Imo, I don't think it would hurt to let 1 practice a week be open. I have always went to at least a couple of practices before the season started. There is a lot I'd like to change, but all in all I think we are closer to being on the right track than we have been in some time. So I'll just sit back and enjoy the season when it begins. Though I reserve the right to ***** about any new items or any items previously covered on this site at a later date.

[brianstl]

Ah Roy there you go again. I never said that SLU is on the same level as UCLA or USC as you intimate. In fact, I specifically said that the better comparison was to Pepperdine.

It is a simple cost-benefit analysis. The powers at SLU believe that it does not make sense to spend money promoting a product now when it can get much more out of its expenditures once the media is interested and part of the process. That seems like a reasonable approach to me.

They are promoting the product now. They have ads in the print edition of the Post, prominent ads on insidestl.com and stltoday.com, and it seems there is a commercial on during every break on 1380 for season tickets. The notion that SLU is doing nothing to promote the product is BS.

[brianstl]

It only takes a few posters to run off some enthusiastic members. Too much negativity and too many grudges.

You are kidding right?

[kevinfootes]

No big deal. I agree, I don't really get the need for the absolute secrecy regarding practice. Imo, I don't think it would hurt to let 1 practice a week be open. I have always went to at least a couple of practices before the season started. There is a lot I'd like to change, but all in all I think we are closer to being on the right track than we have been in some time. So I'll just sit back and enjoy the season when it begins. Though I reserve the right to ***** about any new items or any items previously covered on this site at a later date.

I think you're right on here. I wish some things were being handled differently (schedule, RM's invovlement with promotions and local media, etc), but I think you have to give RM a chance to do things his way. He would have never accepted the job if the situation were something besides what we're seeing.

I also won't hesitate to gripe if I think RM is somehow not coaching up to his potential during the season, but I think that's an entirely different situation. RM has had a nice career. I'm not sure why you'd want to hire him (along with his quirks) and expect him to change his approach.

[SLU_Nick]

I think you're right on here. I wish some things were being handled differently (schedule, RM's invovlement with promotions and local media, etc), but I think you have to give RM a chance to do things his way. He would have never accepted the job if the situation were something besides what we're seeing.

I also won't hesitate to gripe if I think RM is somehow not coaching up to his potential during the season, but I think that's an entirely different situation. RM has had a nice career. I'm not sure why you'd want to hire him (along with his quirks) and expect him to change his approach.

RM cannot have the practices open. His umm...coaching style....does not exactly adhere to the PC standards that Biondi and others would condone. Practices being closed is a necessity. RM might say its because the players get distracted or whatever, but the profanity would turn off(make blush) even the most late night HBO watchers.

Nick