Roy's misinformation

[p diddy]

I have a daughter who attends Hazelwood Central High, two nieces that attend McCluer and another niece who goes to McCluer North. With that being said, I've grown quite familiar with the Suburban North Conference, especially in football and basketball. I've had a chance to see a lot of McCluer North games this year.

B. Roy's assertion that McCluer North would be hard pressed to finish third in the Southwestern Conference is out of left field. I just thought I would set the record straight. As Paul Harvey would say, This is the rest of hte story.

McCluer North has played five games against Southwestern Conference teams this year.

Belleville West 60-48 win

O'Fallon 62-58 win (Centralia Tournament championship)

Belleville East 76-54 win (a blowout on East's home court)

Collinsville 52-47 win

Belleville West 67-57 loss

According to my math, that's a 4-1 record against the cream of the crop of the SWC, with the exception of East St. Louis. East Side is pretty good, but they an open court game and do not guard anybody. In an open court game against North, they would be hard-pressed to hold B.J. under 50 points. I'm confident they could just squeeze by Granite City and Alton, too.

And all five games have been played on the Illinois side of the river with Illinois officials in hostile territory. They are basically playing all road games.

I don't know Randy Reed that well, but I have always been impressed with his willingness to go out and play anybody, anywhere. I know he has reached out to those Illinois schools to come over to NOrth County and play them at home, but so far, nobody will step up and take him up on it. So far, it's a one-way street. I read in the Belleville news democrat that they are going to the Collinsville Tournament next year. He doesn't care. Last year, they went to Belleville East with a rebuilding team and lost three games, but it made them better. Maybe, one day, one of the SWC schools will venture across the water and play him on his home court. I doubt it.

and by the way, a few years back, Mc North beat Peoria (with D.J. Richardson) and Oak Lawn Richards to win the Carbondale Tournament. Oak Lawn Richards went on to win the Class 4A state championship that same year. Once again, they beat Illinois teams in Illinois.

I'm not saying that McCluer North is god's gift to high school basketball, but that is an impressive run of success against quality teams in Illinois on their own turf. Maybe one year, O'Fallon, BE or BW should schedule McCluer North, Hazelwood central, McCluer, throw in Chamiande, DeSmet and Webster Groves. And play every game on the road. Let's see how that would shake out.

Just want to set the record straight.

[AGB91]

I have a daughter who attends Hazelwood Central High, two nieces that attend McCluer and another niece who goes to McCluer North. With that being said, I've grown quite familiar with the Suburban North Conference, especially in football and basketball. I've had a chance to see a lot of McCluer North games this year.

B. Roy's assertion that McCluer North would be hard pressed to finish third in the Southwestern Conference is out of left field. I just thought I would set the record straight. As Paul Harvey would say, This is the rest of hte story.

McCluer North has played five games against Southwestern Conference teams this year.

Belleville West 60-48 win

O'Fallon 62-58 win (Centralia Tournament championship)

Belleville East 76-54 win (a blowout on East's home court)

Collinsville 52-47 win

Belleville West 67-57 loss

According to my math, that's a 4-1 record against the cream of the crop of the SWC, with the exception of East St. Louis. East Side is pretty good, but they an open court game and do not guard anybody. In an open court game against North, they would be hard-pressed to hold B.J. under 50 points. I'm confident they could just squeeze by Granite City and Alton, too.

And all five games have been played on the Illinois side of the river with Illinois officials in hostile territory. They are basically playing all road games.

I don't know Randy Reed that well, but I have always been impressed with his willingness to go out and play anybody, anywhere. I know he has reached out to those Illinois schools to come over to NOrth County and play them at home, but so far, nobody will step up and take him up on it. So far, it's a one-way street. I read in the Belleville news democrat that they are going to the Collinsville Tournament next year. He doesn't care. Last year, they went to Belleville East with a rebuilding team and lost three games, but it made them better. Maybe, one day, one of the SWC schools will venture across the water and play him on his home court. I doubt it.

and by the way, a few years back, Mc North beat Peoria (with D.J. Richardson) and Oak Lawn Richards to win the Carbondale Tournament. Oak Lawn Richards went on to win the Class 4A state championship that same year. Once again, they beat Illinois teams in Illinois.

I'm not saying that McCluer North is god's gift to high school basketball, but that is an impressive run of success against quality teams in Illinois on their own turf. Maybe one year, O'Fallon, BE or BW should schedule McCluer North, Hazelwood central, McCluer, throw in Chamiande, DeSmet and Webster Groves. And play every game on the road. Let's see how that would shake out.

Just want to set the record straight.

Once again P. Diddy makes a great post without any hot air.

[cheesycow]

I have a daughter who attends Hazelwood Central High, two nieces that attend McCluer and another niece who goes to McCluer North. With that being said, I've grown quite familiar with the Suburban North Conference, especially in football and basketball. I've had a chance to see a lot of McCluer North games this year.

B. Roy's assertion that McCluer North would be hard pressed to finish third in the Southwestern Conference is out of left field. I just thought I would set the record straight. As Paul Harvey would say, This is the rest of hte story.

McCluer North has played five games against Southwestern Conference teams this year.

Belleville West 60-48 win

O'Fallon 62-58 win (Centralia Tournament championship)

Belleville East 76-54 win (a blowout on East's home court)

Collinsville 52-47 win

Belleville West 67-57 loss

According to my math, that's a 4-1 record against the cream of the crop of the SWC, with the exception of East St. Louis. East Side is pretty good, but they an open court game and do not guard anybody. In an open court game against North, they would be hard-pressed to hold B.J. under 50 points. I'm confident they could just squeeze by Granite City and Alton, too.

And all five games have been played on the Illinois side of the river with Illinois officials in hostile territory. They are basically playing all road games.

I don't know Randy Reed that well, but I have always been impressed with his willingness to go out and play anybody, anywhere. I know he has reached out to those Illinois schools to come over to NOrth County and play them at home, but so far, nobody will step up and take him up on it. So far, it's a one-way street. I read in the Belleville news democrat that they are going to the Collinsville Tournament next year. He doesn't care. Last year, they went to Belleville East with a rebuilding team and lost three games, but it made them better. Maybe, one day, one of the SWC schools will venture across the water and play him on his home court. I doubt it.

and by the way, a few years back, Mc North beat Peoria (with D.J. Richardson) and Oak Lawn Richards to win the Carbondale Tournament. Oak Lawn Richards went on to win the Class 4A state championship that same year. Once again, they beat Illinois teams in Illinois.

I'm not saying that McCluer North is god's gift to high school basketball, but that is an impressive run of success against quality teams in Illinois on their own turf. Maybe one year, O'Fallon, BE or BW should schedule McCluer North, Hazelwood central, McCluer, throw in Chamiande, DeSmet and Webster Groves. And play every game on the road. Let's see how that would shake out.

Just want to set the record straight.

Meh, Roy's always slightly overrated southern illinois high school basketball. Just gotta roll with it.

[davidnark]

Diddy setting Roy straight -- a nice development for the board.

[davidlee]

p diddy

Since you have seen Granger quite a few times, what are your thoughts about him?

[courtside]

I have a daughter who attends Hazelwood Central High, two nieces that attend McCluer and another niece who goes to McCluer North. With that being said, I've grown quite familiar with the Suburban North Conference, especially in football and basketball. I've had a chance to see a lot of McCluer North games this year.

B. Roy's assertion that McCluer North would be hard pressed to finish third in the Southwestern Conference is out of left field. I just thought I would set the record straight. As Paul Harvey would say, This is the rest of hte story.

McCluer North has played five games against Southwestern Conference teams this year.

Belleville West 60-48 win

O'Fallon 62-58 win (Centralia Tournament championship)

Belleville East 76-54 win (a blowout on East's home court)

Collinsville 52-47 win

Belleville West 67-57 loss

According to my math, that's a 4-1 record against the cream of the crop of the SWC, with the exception of East St. Louis. East Side is pretty good, but they an open court game and do not guard anybody. In an open court game against North, they would be hard-pressed to hold B.J. under 50 points. I'm confident they could just squeeze by Granite City and Alton, too.

And all five games have been played on the Illinois side of the river with Illinois officials in hostile territory. They are basically playing all road games.

I don't know Randy Reed that well, but I have always been impressed with his willingness to go out and play anybody, anywhere. I know he has reached out to those Illinois schools to come over to NOrth County and play them at home, but so far, nobody will step up and take him up on it. So far, it's a one-way street. I read in the Belleville news democrat that they are going to the Collinsville Tournament next year. He doesn't care. Last year, they went to Belleville East with a rebuilding team and lost three games, but it made them better. Maybe, one day, one of the SWC schools will venture across the water and play him on his home court. I doubt it.

and by the way, a few years back, Mc North beat Peoria (with D.J. Richardson) and Oak Lawn Richards to win the Carbondale Tournament. Oak Lawn Richards went on to win the Class 4A state championship that same year. Once again, they beat Illinois teams in Illinois.

I'm not saying that McCluer North is god's gift to high school basketball, but that is an impressive run of success against quality teams in Illinois on their own turf. Maybe one year, O'Fallon, BE or BW should schedule McCluer North, Hazelwood central, McCluer, throw in Chamiande, DeSmet and Webster Groves. And play every game on the road. Let's see how that would shake out.

Just want to set the record straight.

It's not much of a secret...except to very recent newbies that Roy is biased for the Metro East in terms of local Metro Area High School Hoops. There are others here who are biased towards the Suburban North or the MCC etc...and so on...Roy posts more and is more outspoken so he stands out more.

Credibility will go to those who limit their bias to little or zero and and who can objectively discuss the entire metro area.

[billiken_roy]

hmmmmm. misinformation would seem to me to indicate i factually gave wrong information. i thought i was giving MY OPINION.

no argument of north's record. that said, the record vs the southwestern conference imo is a little misleading. in their game vs ofallon joy and jones both had horrible free throw days which should have evened that game up. both joy and jones arent real good free throw shooters, but they are better than 20% shooters.

in the first game vs west, that was the game that dylan chatham was hit in the mouth and had to leave early. dylan is the most improved player in the conference and an emerging player. he was the mvp in the east tourney just completed this last weekend. also center kendall smith did not play at all due to ankle sprain. smith in the lineup this past saturday really took granger out of his game.

collinsville played north even friday night and only a couple of bad decisions from collinsville's star player, daryn foster, down the stretch kept collinsville from beating them. Collinsville will battle for 5th-7th place in the southwestern conference this season with alton and edwardsville.

i saw mcluer north as basically a two man team. and while Randy didnt do anything wrong coaching, not sure if he was more of a coach or a spectator in the two games i saw this past weekend. in the collinsville game, their halftime lockerroom huddle lasted about a minute before they were back out shooting. i do agree it is great that they have come over to illinois to play their two tourney's. why? are they looking for the best competition?

back to my original post, again, not misinformation. just my OPINION that north would finish 3rd in the southwestern conference.

last, i agree i would love to see the teams crossing over the river to play each other more. but that goes both ways. btw diddy, west did go over to missouri to play in the vianney tourney (where they saw missouri refs vs hazelwood central) and ofallon will play chaminade thursday night at Chaifetz and be governed by missouri refs. so i dont know about it being all that uneven.

i have the same discussion about crossing the river with coach big al at stltoday.com prep forums concerning the ladies teams as well. it sure would be nice to have more frequent encounters to be able to decide who the real king and queen teams are from the metro areas.

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

I have a daughter who attends Hazelwood Central High, two nieces that attend McCluer and another niece who goes to McCluer North. With that being said, I've grown quite familiar with the Suburban North Conference, especially in football and basketball. I've had a chance to see a lot of McCluer North games this year.

B. Roy's assertion that McCluer North would be hard pressed to finish third in the Southwestern Conference is out of left field. I just thought I would set the record straight. As Paul Harvey would say, This is the rest of hte story.

McCluer North has played five games against Southwestern Conference teams this year.

Belleville West 60-48 win

O'Fallon 62-58 win (Centralia Tournament championship)

Belleville East 76-54 win (a blowout on East's home court)

Collinsville 52-47 win

Belleville West 67-57 loss

According to my math, that's a 4-1 record against the cream of the crop of the SWC, with the exception of East St. Louis. East Side is pretty good, but they an open court game and do not guard anybody. In an open court game against North, they would be hard-pressed to hold B.J. under 50 points. I'm confident they could just squeeze by Granite City and Alton, too.

And all five games have been played on the Illinois side of the river with Illinois officials in hostile territory. They are basically playing all road games.

I don't know Randy Reed that well, but I have always been impressed with his willingness to go out and play anybody, anywhere. I know he has reached out to those Illinois schools to come over to NOrth County and play them at home, but so far, nobody will step up and take him up on it. So far, it's a one-way street. I read in the Belleville news democrat that they are going to the Collinsville Tournament next year. He doesn't care. Last year, they went to Belleville East with a rebuilding team and lost three games, but it made them better. Maybe, one day, one of the SWC schools will venture across the water and play him on his home court. I doubt it.

and by the way, a few years back, Mc North beat Peoria (with D.J. Richardson) and Oak Lawn Richards to win the Carbondale Tournament. Oak Lawn Richards went on to win the Class 4A state championship that same year. Once again, they beat Illinois teams in Illinois.

I'm not saying that McCluer North is god's gift to high school basketball, but that is an impressive run of success against quality teams in Illinois on their own turf. Maybe one year, O'Fallon, BE or BW should schedule McCluer North, Hazelwood central, McCluer, throw in Chamiande, DeSmet and Webster Groves. And play every game on the road. Let's see how that would shake out.

Just want to set the record straight.

I always appreciate posts that prove Broy incorrect. Thank you.

[JettFlight5]

As someone who mainly watches small school Metro-East basketball, I'm not overly qualified to speak on it, but I will anyway.

I've seen a few SWC games, and the styles of play are all over the board. Alton and ESL want to out-athlete everybody, while Edwardsville is a system team (remember when they held the ball the entire first quarter vs. Alton's better athletes). I have watched a couple SNC games (my parents are both McCluer grads), and it looked very similar in that the more athletic teams were winning.

I do agree with Roy that we need more cross-river games. I'd like to see some of the small schools like Breese Central play similar schools in MO. I normally watch the South Central/Prairie State league, and the level of basketball there is markedly lower b/c the schools are only 300-400 in enrollment. My HS hasn't had a DI since 1993, and he was a walk-on at Illinois after leading Staunton to a state title.

When we talk about guys that are good for SLU, are we looking for a guy that can start right away? I would think that would limit us to the top guys, a level we've had trouble getting. I would think the small school guys would be more development types as they got used to playing elite competition in the A-10 or similar.

[Clock_Tower]

When we talk about guys that are good for SLU, are we looking for a guy that can start right away? I would think that would limit us to the top guys, a level we've had trouble getting. I would think the small school guys would be more development types as they got used to playing elite competition in the A-10 or similar.

Not just start as a Freshman but carry the team as a Freshman. Not so long ago, IV was tripping over the painted lines as a Frosh and, when he did play, was picking up 1 foul each minute. We on this Board, though, looking for anything postive, would say "he's big", "you can't teach size" and "he's got good hands". Three years later, he left SLU as possibly it's best Center in 40 years.

This year, some on this Board have already given up on RL because he doesn't play 40 minutes per game, doesn't dominate the inside and dunk over opponents, but instead, plays smart, makes good passes (though the other 4 guys really don't want the ball) and shows usually good range for not only a Freshman but also a 7 footer. By the way, the savior of our program (WR) had many forgetable and unimpressive games his Freshman year.

Sorry for the diversion. Everyone can now go back to putting McCluer and McCluer North back up on the pedestal and Roy can continue with his medical reports.

[slufanskip]

On the subject of HS basketball, there was a girl that played for Ladue HS that worked the clock at our games last weekend. She was a black girl probably 5'9" give or take. Not thin, but not heavy, I'd describe her as strong. She said they were undefeated and she was a Sr. Just wondering if anyone might have an idea who I'm talking about. She was shooting around between games and had the best shooting form I've seen from a HS player, always got her feet set, and had great hands with a smooth stroke and a perfect consistent follow through. She might have been big enough to play inside but she moved and handled herself like she played facing the basket. We talked a bit, but I didn't ask her name.

[Pistol]

p diddy's post is pretty impressive. He lays out actual results, which are the only things that matter. Roy, I understand there is a lot of good ball on the East side, but you resort to a lot of 'buts' and 'ifs' and 'shouldas' in your response. At the end of the day, the results are that the Suburban North is beating the Southwestern Conference head-to-head this season.

Are the refs really that much of a factor, by the way? Whether a game is played at home, on the road, or on a neutral site seems to be a much bigger factor to me than whether the refs are from Illinois or Missouri. Are there really different 'crews' that look to protect their home states? If so, those dudes should not be allowed to officiate. That the Chaifetz event on Thursday will be "governed by Missouri refs" seems crazy to me.

I have not seen any teams from either of these conferences play this season, nor last, nor in just about an entire decade. I do not care much about the Suburban North nor Southwestern Conference and consider myself totally neutral on this matter. These conferences matter to me only because of the potential collegiate-level players they produce, so I read up on the prospects from time to time.

I only care about my alma mater, the sole remaining undefeated team in the area. I like that they will get a chance to protect this undefeated record against O'Fallon on Thursday and against McCluer North on February 12. I like that they have not given themselves a cupcake schedule despite playing in a conference that also includes the #4 and #9 teams- which they play a combined five times- in the area. And hopefully if either the O'Fallon or McCluer North games wind up as losses, which they very well might be because those are both excellent teams, they'll learn from the experience and win their second state championship in three seasons.

[JettFlight5]

Most of the small-school guys I watch are a couple years away from being ready for elite competition. They dominate similar players, but don't get the chance to play the DI types that the big schools see nightly.

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

On the subject of HS basketball, there was a girl that played for Ladue HS that worked the clock at our games last weekend. She was a black girl probably 5'9" give or take. Not thin, but not heavy, I'd describe her as strong. She said they were undefeated and she was a Sr. Just wondering if anyone might have an idea who I'm talking about. She was shooting around between games and had the best shooting form I've seen from a HS player, always got her feet set, and had great hands with a smooth stroke and a perfect consistent follow through. She might have been big enough to play inside but she moved and handled herself like she played facing the basket. We talked a bit, but I didn't ask her name.

Broy- Where are you going with this?

[billiken_roy]

pistol, i didnt bring up the ref thing first. diddy did. " with Illinois officials in hostile territory"

backhand, i suggest you ask skip about his own statements. i know nothing about ladue girls basketball.

[Pistol]

pistol, i didnt bring up the ref thing first. diddy did. " with Illinois officials in hostile territory"

backhand, i suggest you ask skip about his own statements. i know nothing about ladue girls basketball.

The question was really for both of you. If that really is the case with the refs, it's a real shame, especially if teams could potentially be homered in neutral site events like the one coming up this week. I don't have any experience watching games in the Metro East, nor much seeing Illinois teams on the MO-side, so I really have never heard anything like that. It just seems to me that if this were a widespread issue (i.e. Illinois-based refs protecting their turf and Missouri-based crews doing the same) and not just regular old home cooking in any home gym, then something should be done about it.

[JohnnyJumpUp]

On the subject of HS basketball, there was a girl that played for Ladue HS that worked the clock at our games last weekend. She was a black girl probably 5'9" give or take. Not thin, but not heavy, I'd describe her as strong. She said they were undefeated and she was a Sr. Just wondering if anyone might have an idea who I'm talking about. She was shooting around between games and had the best shooting form I've seen from a HS player, always got her feet set, and had great hands with a smooth stroke and a perfect consistent follow through. She might have been big enough to play inside but she moved and handled herself like she played facing the basket. We talked a bit, but I didn't ask her name.

I'm not sure who she is but along the same line, I was up at Wellbridge Fitness the other day and met this white girl about 5'6", not thin but not heavy, I'd describe her as in shape. She said she had belonged to the gym for quite some time but for some reason I had never ran into her before. She was was squatting about 380 and had the best form I had ever seen, had her feet the right width apart, always kept her back straight, chin up, elbows in and all with a very smooth motion and a perfect consistent flow thoughout. We had a decent conversation, and although she told me her name I just couldn't remember it. I attached a picture below that I was able to get with my cell phone. If anyone recognizes her, I'd appreciate her name so I don't stupid asking her the next time we cross paths. Thanks.

[billiken_roy]

The question was really for both of you. If that really is the case with the refs, it's a real shame, especially if teams could potentially be homered in neutral site events like the one coming up this week. I don't have any experience watching games in the Metro East, nor much seeing Illinois teams on the MO-side, so I really have never heard anything like that. It just seems to me that if this were a widespread issue (i.e. Illinois-based refs protecting their turf and Missouri-based crews doing the same) and not just regular old home cooking in any home gym, then something should be done about it.

it was my opinion that both oakdale and mcluer north were more bothered over the weekend by the number of whistles than the illinois teams. and i felt when west played at vianney at thanksgiving that there were not enough whistles.

[MB73]

Roy is right, he was just stating an opinion, fair enough. No way to tell how they really stack up.

And you have to be at a game sometimes to understand the outcome; the final score is the accountant's bottom line, but all kinds of things happen, terrible calls, injuries, unjustified foul trouble for a key player, you name it.

We have all been to games where one team won, the other team clearly shoulda.

Refs often critically alter the outcomes, sometimes subconsciously, sometimes, well, on purpose.

You might assume the MO refs will favor Chaminade vs O'Fallon, but think outside the box... hey, one or two of the refs might be piss*d at Kelvin for a history, some previous game disagreements and it goes the other way. Not saying this will happen, just pointing out that in some situations it is possible.

[slufanskip]

I'm not sure who she is but along the same line, I was up at Wellbridge Fitness the other day and met this white girl about 5'6", not thin but not heavy, I'd describe her as in shape. She said she had belonged to the gym for quite some time but for some reason I had never ran into her before. She was was squatting about 380 and had the best form I had ever seen, had her feet the right width apart, always kept her back straight, chin up, elbows in and all with a very smooth motion and a perfect consistent flow thoughout. We had a decent conversation, and although she told me her name I just couldn't remember it. I attached a picture below that I was able to get with my cell phone. If anyone recognizes her, I'd appreciate her name so I don't stupid asking her the next time we cross paths. Thanks.

Try Backhand. I'm sure he knows her

[BillikenROAR]

Really? a whole thread arguing about a HIGH SCHOOL basketball conference? "SMH"

[thetorch]

Really? a whole thread arguing about a HIGH SCHOOL basketball conference? "SMH"

Uh you haven't been in St. Louis long have you?

[ACE]

Really? a whole thread arguing about a HIGH SCHOOL basketball conference? "SMH"

This thread is a lot better than talking about sausages and flame bait threads about pro soccer. I don't care much about St. Louis high school basketball except when it pertains to SLU. I have some interest in McCluer North only because they seem to be producting a good share of D1 player, including Femi and SLU recruiting target Jordan Granger. Plus, I always like reading what pdiddy has to say. He knows his stuff and I like when the streets are talking.

[jbizzle09]

This thread is a lot better than talking about sausages and flame bait threads about pro soccer. I don't care much about St. Louis high school basketball except when it pertains to SLU. I have some interest in McCluer North only because they seem to be producting a good share of D1 player, including Femi and SLU recruiting target Jordan Granger. Plus, I always like reading what pdiddy has to say. He knows his stuff and I like when the streets are talking.

Agreed. pdiddy is extremely knowledgeable and I always pay attention to his posts.

[p diddy]

didn't mean to put B. Roy on blast like that. Just wanted to share some information about North's program, which has been on a pretty good run for the past five or six years. football has been their main sport for many years, but basketball really has taken center stage as of late.

granger is a long 6'8" with good skill level. He is more comfortable facing the basket, but he is a power forward. He can really shoot it from mid-range and he can shoot the turnaround. He needs more weight and strength and I imagine that would happen as he gets older and his body matures. It would be nice to see him at SLU.