slufan13 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Gillmann with 8 rebounds. Crawford with 5. Good to see the continued effort on the boards from guys who don't usually get a ton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Gillmann was much better on the boards tonight. He was much more physical, as seen from his foul output. Thought he and Reggie were good defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Pelican Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Ndoye was giving him all he could handle in the post and he didn't back down. Thought this was one of his best defensive efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I know we lost badly last night, I was there, but yes there was improvement if you look for it, rather than looking for someone to blame. We have 2 games left, then we will see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billboy1 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Hear that same response after every game-we still have X games left maybe we'll get better. We have all of next season-let's see if there is improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Billboy1, I know this was your interpretation of what I said, but that is not the only interpretation possible for the words I wrote. It certainly was not the meaning I had in mind when i wrote my prior post either. To express my meaning using different language, the rose colored glasses should be off and replaced by cold reality. That is what I expect to see, or hope to see, happening after the next two games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Gillmann was much better on the boards tonight. He was much more physical, as seen from his foul output. Thought he and Reggie were good defensively. Torch. Not trying to be overly critical but there was not much good of anything last night. The word "thud" instead comes to mind. Good, I guess, is a subjective and relative word. Good that Gillmann finally engaged on the interior and scrapped. IMO, this should have been going on all year. We need our bigs to fight and scrap on the interior and not to play "point forward" at the top of the key/circle/three point line. As I have said before, as long as our bigs only play on the perimeter, then we might as well play 4 or 5 guards. Last night was nice to see Austin play like a center should. In that sense, I saw improvement from Austin. At the same time, rebounds are not made, men were not blocked out, no needed to climb over Austin's back b/c they simply step in front of him and Austin was too late each time coming over to swat their guard's layup. So, yes, the effort was largely there and yes Austin remembered the need for help-side defense but the end results were far from "good." And yes, Reggie gave effort but he still has a long way to go. In fact, I'd suggest that the Reggie we saw last night is what I expected to see at the beginning of this year. Yes, a Spring/Summer of continued play, growth and development will help, but frankly, he is no spring chicken and he is not pencil thin like some of the others. Therefore, we may not be able to count on him to be a strong interior player until next January or possibly until his Senior year. In short, a recruiting bust is a player which never produces. A project is one that does not produce until his Junior/Senior year. We are seeing too many projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Torch. Not trying to be overly critical but there was not much good of anything last night. The word "thud" instead comes to mind. Good, I guess, is a subjective and relative word. Good that Gillmann finally engaged on the interior and scrapped. IMO, this should have been going on all year. We need our bigs to fight and scrap on the interior and not to play "point forward" at the top of the key/circle/three point line. As I have said before, as long as our bigs only play on the perimeter, then we might as well play 4 or 5 guards. Last night was nice to see Austin play like a center should. In that sense, I saw improvement from Austin. At the same time, rebounds are not made, men were not blocked out, no needed to climb over Austin's back b/c they simply step in front of him and Austin was too late each time coming over to swat their guard's layup. So, yes, the effort was largely there and yes Austin remembered the need for help-side defense but the end results were far from "good." And yes, Reggie gave effort but he still has a long way to go. In fact, I'd suggest that the Reggie we saw last night is what I expected to see at the beginning of this year. Yes, a Spring/Summer of continued play, growth and development will help, but frankly, he is no spring chicken and he is not pencil thin like some of the others. Therefore, we may not be able to count on him to be a strong interior player until next January or possibly until his Senior year. In short, a recruiting bust is a player which never produces. A project is one that does not produce until his Junior/Senior year. We are seeing too many projects. Many posters here way overestimated this teams performance and are now basing actual performance on that original flawed premise. I predicted a possible .500 season with a good chance of going well below that. So my version of a good performance for this team is going to be different than most. Crews has never coached at this level before, he's never recruited at this high a level. If he is going to be successful there is going to be a lot of trial and error. Out of his 6 recruits I believe 3 are keepers, maybe 4. His game plans and strategy must change but what did you expect. Essentially our program has gone back to the future. Crews is for all intents and purposes Rich Grawer reborn. Hopefully a Grawer that is less burnt out, more mellow, and less desperate. If Crews can adapt then we will be OK, for a couple seasons. If he can't the program will burn next year and he'll be gone. I'm not worried. SLU has too many positives now to be bad for an extended period of time. Crews will either get it going or someone else will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Many posters here way overestimated this teams performance and are now basing actual performance on that original flawed premise. I predicted a possible .500 season with a good chance of going well below that. So my version of a good performance for this team is going to be different than most. Crews has never coached at this level before, he's never recruited at this high a level. If he is going to be successful there is going to be a lot of trial and error. Out of his 6 recruits I believe 3 are keepers, maybe 4. His game plans and strategy must change but what did you expect. Essentially our program has gone back to the future. Crews is for all intents and purposes Rich Grawer reborn. Hopefully a Grawer that is less burnt out, more mellow, and less desperate. If Crews can adapt then we will be OK, for a couple seasons. If he can't the program will burn next year and he'll be gone. I'm not worried. SLU has too many positives now to be bad for an extended period of time. Crews will either get it going or someone else will. Wow. Don't know where to begin. First, Grawer was a great man, got lesser talent to play better than they should but who could not stack talent year after year. If fact, most coaches here couldn't do that. Grawer then finally got talent (Gray, Douglas and Bonner) but could not sustain this (due to his own failings and due to the fault of Fr. Biondi -- see Craig Upchurch) and then had to start taking chances on guys with talent but without good moral character ... and the rest is history. Second, I expected Crews to be able to coach the guys the had (last year's 5 Seniors did NOT play well early in the season) but maybe not recruit so well. Instead, I see talent up and down the roster but I don't see the coaching. Grawer would coach this current team better and not only have more wins but more importantly have the future look brighter than it does. I expected 18 to 19 wins. Fair enough, I overstated. But is is wrong to expect optimism when 9 of your 13 guys are either Frosh or Sophs? As mentioned, Crews brought in these 9 guys plus Ash for a total of 10 players. Manning, Glaze and McBroom are the only ones not brought in by Crews and I'd suggest that these 3 have more talent than we have seen. I expected a HC to better know what his team's needs are not to give out the scholarship to Welmer b/c of some possible deal or obligation for suggesting he go to prep school, It is obvious that Crews believes next year's PG is on the the current roster and to me, I am not so sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Crews is for all intents and purposes Rich Grawer reborn. Hopefully a Grawer that is less burnt out, more mellow, and less desperate. If Crews can adapt then we will be OK, for a couple seasons. If he can't the program will burn next year and he'll be gone. I'm not worried. SLU has too many positives now to be bad for an extended period of time. Crews will either get it going or someone else will. Wonderful insight. I fully support RGR (Rich Grawer Reborn) as a new board acronym. Either Crews gets it turned around next season or he doesn't. It's not that complicated. That $85 million arena isn't going to fill itself. I think folks overestimate how many coaches are capable of producing consistent success at the high mid-major level. Even for Majerus, it took five years to get to the NCAA tournament. And that's with a Hall of Fame coach who specialized in succeeding at this level. We might be looking at 6 or 7 years with someone else. Or we might have to go through 2-3 more coaches and 10+ years -- see UMass after Calipari or Tulsa after Bill Self -- before the ship is righted. If RGR and the kids can get it figured out, we could be just two years away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 Crews doesn't get a pass for this year's team. But I also don't think you fire a coach after one bad year. Let's see what happens next year. 20 wins should be the year in and year out expectation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 As I have posted several times before and during the early part of the season - anyone who really thought this team would be 500 or above was being unrealistic. The facts were simple - we lost 80% of our scoring and maybe 100% of our defense. The 6 freshmen - some show upsides but not all and since none were 4 star recruits to have expected them to deliver this year was not fair. It is fair to expect to see improvement throughout the year. The sophomores were not ready for prime time - whose fault is that - who knows but none of them were very good. All this gushing about RA is over blown - he has poor touch under the basket with his shooting and pass catching - I will agree that the kid can rebound at times but he is not on the floor enough to make a difference. MC - has shown flashes now and then but the problem is he has not consistently shown you can count on him. He disappears against faster and bigger teams - we need his perimeter shooting to help bust the zones we see but he just has not done it enough. I am sure he will be back along with RA so hopefully they will be more ready next year - project time is over. TL - no need going down that road again. The juniors - the high level athletic dept person who told me that AY was the best player on the team last year was clearly wrong. Maybe it was just wishful thinking but that person also told me that TL had a much improved perimeter game. As the song goes - don't be fooled again. AM - he did about what he did last year - the numbers don't support that but he has played fewer minutes. Not sure what happened to him but I would have expected more from him. The seniors - GG gets a pass. JM - once again no need to go down that road again. My point simply is this team was not even close to be positioned for having anything remotely rated as a successful record for this year. JC will be back and I will be pulling for him because what choice do I have but he will be on a short leash next year not only with me but I am sure the Administration. May can not risk a big drop in season tix renewals and a drop in donations without him being on the hot seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Whether you get to 20 wins or not has to a lot to do with your nonconference schedule. I'd rather go 7-7 in a good nonconference schedule and 11-7 in conference (18-14) than go 11-3 against a cupcake schedule and go 9-9 in conference (20-12). I expect we'll see another cupcake non-con schedule next year, however. These kids need to learn how to win first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 As I have posted several times before and during the early part of the season - anyone who really thought this team would be 500 or above was being unrealistic. The facts were simple - we lost 80% of our scoring and maybe 100% of our defense. The 6 freshmen - some show upsides but not all and since none were 4 star recruits to have expected them to deliver this year was not fair. It is fair to expect to see improvement throughout the year. The sophomores were not ready for prime time - whose fault is that - who knows but none of them were very good. All this gushing about RA is over blown - he has poor touch under the basket with his shooting and pass catching - I will agree that the kid can rebound at times but he is not on the floor enough to make a difference. MC - has shown flashes now and then but the problem is he has not consistently shown you can count on him. He disappears against faster and bigger teams - we need his perimeter shooting to help bust the zones we see but he just has not done it enough. I am sure he will be back along with RA so hopefully they will be more ready next year - project time is over. TL - no need going down that road again. The juniors - the high level athletic dept person who told me that AY was the best player on the team last year was clearly wrong. Maybe it was just wishful thinking but that person also told me that TL had a much improved perimeter game. As the song goes - don't be fooled again. AM - he did about what he did last year - the numbers don't support that but he has played fewer minutes. Not sure what happened to him but I would have expected more from him. The seniors - GG gets a pass. JM - once again no need to go down that road again. My point simply is this team was not even close to be positioned for having anything remotely rated as a successful record for this year. JC will be back and I will be pulling for him because what choice do I have but he will be on a short leash next year not only with me but I am sure the Administration. May can not risk a big drop in season tix renewals and a drop in donations without him being on the hot seat. Cheese. Agree in part but disagree in part. In hindsight, you are spot on. Prior to the season, though, I thought we would win 18 games -- and that was NOT based upon the Frosh but instead based upon incremental development of the returning players. And yes, your 60% and 100% figures are correct but that is college basketball. Guys graduate, transfer and go to NBA early. What happened to reloading? In short, I still believe our non-Frosh extremely underperformed, did not develop and if all are that bad, then Crews must be a bad judge of talent and/or not be able to teach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 Whether you get to 20 wins or not has to a lot to do with your nonconference schedule. I'd rather go 7-7 in a good nonconference schedule and 11-7 in conference (18-14) than go 11-3 against a cupcake schedule and go 9-9 in conference (20-12). I expect we'll see another cupcake non-con schedule next year, however. These kids need to learn how to win first. Agree with all of this. But I still think 20 wins should be the expectation. Hell even Dayton has won 20 games in 7 of the last 8 years and they've had 1 losing season since 2000. I really hope we don't see a cupcake schedule. To me it's really a no-win situation. Win the games and you aren't helping your NCAA or even NIT chances. Lose them and you end up with computer numbers like this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 My feelings are that next year won't be much better. The recruits being brought in won't fix the problems with the roster. At least, they won't have that impact as freshmen. Crews hasn't shown the ability to coach up the players that will be returning. The team currently is dysfunctional. With that said, why wait another year and set back the program more? Bite the bullet and make the change after the this season ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Whether you get to 20 wins or not has to a lot to do with your nonconference schedule. I'd rather go 7-7 in a good nonconference schedule and 11-7 in conference (18-14) than go 11-3 against a cupcake schedule and go 9-9 in conference (20-12). I expect we'll see another cupcake non-con schedule next year, however. These kids need to learn how to win first. Agree with all of this. But I still think 20 wins should be the expectation. Hell even Dayton has won 20 games in 7 of the last 8 years and they've had 1 losing season since 2000. I really hope we don't see a cupcake schedule. To me it's really a no-win situation. Win the games and you aren't helping your NCAA or even NIT chances. Lose them and you end up with computer numbers like this year. -I was going to post about next year's schedule after this season (mercifully) ends, but since it was addressed here.... I would be shocked if the schedule does not appear like this year's, if not worse -I expect the thinking to be: -the kids need to win - we will be young again (and maybe for sometime if we become a revolving door of transfers leading to frosh) so won't want to throw them to the lions - it will be easier to sell conf tickets if we have a good non-conf record even if play school for the blind six times - the coach will want wins to turn down the heat on his seat -also, what programs thinking they have a chance at the post-season will want to play a team that was rated about 300 the year prior? they don't want the RPI hit we likely become -I think the Vandy series is over, if CMay can pull another home and home with a power 5 school with no strings attached I will be amazed -we are not Gonz, we are not xavier, we are not even Dayton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_davola Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Agree with all of this. But I still think 20 wins should be the expectation. Hell even Dayton has won 20 games in 7 of the last 8 years and they've had 1 losing season since 2000. I really hope we don't see a cupcake schedule. To me it's really a no-win situation. Win the games and you aren't helping your NCAA or even NIT chances. Lose them and you end up with computer numbers like this year. Scary to think about how easy our non conf schedule was and what our record is. I was 'OK' with the horrendous non-conf schedule thinking that it would be a confidence builder to win games. That obviously didn't work out too well. We cannot have another creampuff non conf schedule next year. Unfortunately I think that is going to result in us getting pounded quite a bit in non conf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 My feelings are that next year won't be much better. The recruits being brought in won't fix the problems with the roster. At least, they won't have that impact as freshmen. Crews hasn't shown the ability to coach up the players that will be returning. The team currently is dysfunctional. With that said, why wait another year and set back the program more? Bite the bullet and make the change after the this season ends. Maybe a PG will miraculously fall into our laps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I agree that we will probably see another easy non conf schedule - if you were Crews what else would you do - worked for Pinkel at Missouri - there always a lot griping about that from their fans but he knew what he was doing. This team needs to have a respectable record asap. The other points about who would like to play us given our rankings is also valid. The school will not fire Crews this year although what Brian is saying may very well be true regarding the outcome next year. We are stuck next year with Crews but after that all bets are off unless he delivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 The non-conference schedule will be a challenge for SLU, but can be tweaked, upgraded significantly. In the Midwest, SLU could play teams like Northern Iowa, Loyola Chicago or Illinois State out of the Valley, in addition to Wichita State, the series with which has been extended. SLU could also expand its horizons within the Jesuit and Catholic schools, perhaps start a home and home with St. Mary's, USF, or Santa Clara, especially St. Mary's, which is traditionally a good RPI team. San Diego and Portland are decent; San Diego is certainly a nice place to visit. There are things that can be done, schools to play, outside the Power 5 + Big East that don't want to play on the road. It may be necessary to substitute some "buy" games for some home and homes. Playing all those RPI drudges is counterproductive for post-season purposes. At some point the SLU program will have to cut that lifeline. RPI for the post-season is more important that wins over a bunch of cupcakes. An embattled coach probably doesn't see it that way, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 With Alden out at that other school, could there be a chance to get that series going? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU_Nick Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I am going to give the optimists a pass on their predictions for this season. Here is the information we had coming into this season. -AY is a better shooting version of Jett -Manning and Lancona got semi-major minutes down the stretch last year and it was a fine assumption to think they could average 20 and 10 combined. -GG is an enforcer that gives the team identity and hates losing more than anyone. Then we get into it and Manning is obviously hurt. For those of you who thinks he just stinks, go back and watch Louisville last year. He just regressed from about a B to an F- over a year's time. Lancona thought that bulking up would help...nope. I actually think AY would be okay if he didnt have to be "the man"...but he is trying to do way too much. GG doesnt play. I know we had no expectations but that luck is close to being as bad "the situation" season. But fast forward to now...and there has been no obvious progress on any fronts. ----->That is where I have a problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 The non-conference schedule will be a challenge for SLU, but can be tweaked, upgraded significantly. In the Midwest, SLU could play teams like Northern Iowa, Loyola Chicago or Illinois State out of the Valley, in addition to Wichita State, the series with which has been extended. SLU could also expand its horizons within the Jesuit and Catholic schools, perhaps start a home and home with St. Mary's, USF, or Santa Clara, especially St. Mary's, which is traditionally a good RPI team. San Diego and Portland are decent; San Diego is certainly a nice place to visit. There are things that can be done, schools to play, outside the Power 5 + Big East that don't want to play on the road. It may be necessary to substitute some "buy" games for some home and homes. Playing all those RPI drudges is counterproductive for post-season purposes. At some point the SLU program will have to cut that lifeline. RPI for the post-season is more important that wins over a bunch of cupcakes. An embattled coach probably doesn't see it that way, however. -sure we 'could', it takes two to tango -I think we have exhausted the list of potential teams we could play through the years on this board, some more exhausted than others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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