recruits

[p diddy]

a lot of mistakes were made in area recruiting in recent years, but i don't see where have complaints with what has happened in the past two years and beyond.

in that time, slu has signed polk (2004 Player of Year), lisch (best area player in class of 2005), liddell (most talented player in class of 04/05), meyer (nearly 30 points a game and an A-student). All were on the all-metro team in 2004. coming next year is maguire (best perimeter shooter in class of 2006). jarod leonard of desmet was offered before his troubles this year and word on the street is that bobby hill of vashon has been offered (maybe problack can confirm since he is close to the vashon program) powell is also on the list.

there are several area kids in the class of '07, '08 who are in the billiken crosshairs as well.

so my question is, why are some people still complaining. we should have had some guys who went elsewhere (darren brooks and others), but that has been rectified. that dog won't hunt anymore.

slu is getting pretty much the best perimeter talent in town. what they need is some low post presence and that hasn't been readily available in the last two years. (save for grimes and shaw). some of the younger classes have some forwards and centers.

so, the next time you want to rant about why didn't we recruit....just stop yourself and look at the prospective roster for the next four years. you should have no complaints, unless you're just talking just to be talking.

bad boyz for life

[Sheltiedave]

P diddy,

there are some people who are very impatient. The way some people carry on, it seems we are the team with multiple consecutive top 20 recruiting classes and a brilliant young coach.

I'm looking forward to the next few seasons with an improving recruiting base, maturing players, and a hard working young coaching staff. It won't be too long before we will be winning based on better talent, dedicated and hard nosed play, and good coaching.

[jjray]

I'm very happy with our 2005 class, Obi was just icing. That said, I think people are griping due to results on the court. 9-21 gets everyone's mouth running and we all second guess the coach. My biggest ***** during the season last year was that we have an offense built to create jump shots but our players were laying bricks with the open shots the system created for them. OK, now we are recruiting perimeter players. It's great to see that Coach recognizes a problem and addresses it in his recruiting. We also had a depth issue at PF. That has been addressed.

However, one would have to expect that we'll be in for another rough season (although I expect more than 9 wins). Which means we'll probably get dogged in the press again. It'll take some Ws to really get people excited about SLU basketball again.

[tseugnekillib]

jj.....I know this is a "what have you done for me lately sports world" and that last year's 9 win season was horrible, but don't lose sight of the previous two seasons. SLU was 16-14 (CUSA 9-7)and then 19-13(CUSA 9-7) the previous two seasons. Not great years, but not bad years either. Things can turn quickly....it's a perfect time to be going into the A-10.

[SLUBALL]

It makes me sick to read the Kool-Aid drinkers washing of the downward spiral of our Billikens. As good of class as you may think the 2005 class is there still is only one shooter (maybe) in the class.

And for those who think Dustin will be our 3 Pt Savior you will be disappointed.

Who on this team are we going to count on to give us IO's and Regggie

type point production?

I hate to say it but we are in for a long season again.

[Billiken Rich]

If you're talking about the production Reggie had last year (due to injury and whatnot) I'd say that ANY of the newbies or Luke or hell even JJ if he earns some pt. IO is tougher to replace BUT totally inconsistant. He wasn't a good last ditch hope for a bucket. Laswt year neither was Reggie. I'm not saying either will be easy to replace but their production last year wasn't good enough for a .500 record. All of the sudden they are Kenyon Martin and Larry Hughes? Please. Even I'm not that negative.

Our additions are an upgrade even if they are banged up a bit. By the way who is the "only" shooter? Lisch? Liddell? Obi?

[billiken_roy]

i know it is tough to count on freshmen, but i truly believe in liddell and lisch to at least match what we lost if not better. i believe liddell to be the best raw talent to come to slu since hughes and lisch if healthy is the most polished player all around since hughes as well. if obi gets in shape and fulfills his potential, what a class.

[ACE]

>i know it is tough to count on freshmen, but i truly believe

>in liddell and lisch to at least match what we lost if not

>better. i believe liddell to be the best raw talent to come

>to slu since hughes and lisch if healthy is the most

>polished player all around since hughes as well. if obi

>gets in shape and fulfills his potential, what a class.

Perry, Love and Jeffers were three pretty athletic, talented players who have played since Hughes, so if Liddell and Lisch can exceed those guys, we've really got something special.

[billiken_roy]

i believe that lisch and liddell will exceed those guys by the time they are seniors.

[VTIME]

Polk's will become a way better shooter with Liddell manning the point and Polk being able to slide over to sg. Lisch and Meyer will battle it out for the third guard position, but Polk was never a pg, before this season and he was forced into playing it last year. He's always been a sg and it was a little unfair to ask him to play it last yr. He started at sg all four years at Vashon.

[billiken_roy]

problack, as i have told you a million times on stltoday.com unless there is problems with kevin's recovery, there is no way that polk plays ahead of either lisch or liddell. they are better players. if anyone is in a battle for the third spot, it will be polk.

[jjray]

>jj.....I know this is a "what have you done for me lately

>sports world" and that last year's 9 win season was

>horrible, but don't lose sight of the previous two seasons.

>SLU was 16-14 (CUSA 9-7)and then 19-13(CUSA 9-7) the

>previous two seasons. Not great years, but not bad years

>either. Things can turn quickly....it's a perfect time to be

>going into the A-10.

Personally, I'm a long-term Billiken fan so I'll follow the team regardless. However, we're asking a lot of our freshman. Our 9-21 team lost its top two scorers (Izik and Reggie). I like where the recruiting is going and have confidence that Brad is building a foundation (at least talent wise) for a solid, respectable program. But I still think we will struggle next year. I'd love it for these kids to prove me wrong.

[billiken_roy]

they wont be hughes, but they will be better than most freshmen slu has had.

[jjray]

Vtime thinks Liddell is going to displace Polk at PG? I'm not sure who Roy thinks will be the PG but it appears he believes the starting PG/SG combo shall be Lisch/Liddell.

Brad was loath to start a freshman at PG last year. I think he only did it because he had so few options. Would he start yet another freshman at PG in 2005-2006? I don't see it happening, at least to start the season. Dwayne came on at the end of the year and earned coach's confidence. I'm sure he will start the year at PG. But who gets point duties when Dwayne sits? I'll cry if it's Drejaj. I'd like to see what Liddell or Lisch can do there.

However, if Dwayne doesn't find his outside shot this year, I agree with Roy. Not only will he not be the starting PG, he'll be on the bench.

[billiken_roy]

jjray, imo, as has been voiced by tseugnekillib many times, with the motion offense, point guard is in name only mainly. if the system is being run correctly, it wont matter much and liddell, lisch, polk and drejaj are capable of bringing the ball across the half line.

if our discussion is about creating opportunities and who fits the role in the traditional HALF COURT sense, then imo, it is liddell, lisch, drejaj and polk in that order.

imo, polk's greatest attribute is not running the team, it is using his fantastic speed to beat people down the floor and create advantages on the break. i see that as flying out on a wing and finishing breaks. the bigger key to making that a success is someone becoming a rebounding machine and throwing outlets. i.e. that would be your real playmaker besides the motion offense. unfortunately, supposedly, bill russell has used all his college eligibility.

[willie]

I disagree with everyone who thinks that Polk won't be our main point guard. Last year was a growth year for Dwayne. I look for tremendous upside in him. I think Brad will give him the ball and make this his team. IMO there are 2 people with guaranteed starting jobs. Ian and Dwayne, everything else is up for grabs.

[slu72]

I think it's unreasonable to expect too much from next year's team. Am expecting us to improve on 9-21 and would be estatic with a .500 record. We're young and no proven scorer coming back. There's a leadership void, as there was last year, and the big question is who's going to lead this team?

[Scoop]

I agree with willie. I will be shocked if Polk is not running the point. Yes, there were a few rough times last year, but he was a freshmen and is learning. With this new bunch he will set the tempo great and hopefully set the table just as well. B-roy is right, in a well oiled motion offense the 1 through 3 should interchange like three bean chili. As for wanting to dub him as a sg. New level, new game. We'll take a look at his shooting percentage after we focus on running him off of picks to shoot over someone who is a foot taller. Seroiusly.

[Billikenbooster]

This is the third year in a row we have begun the off season with "We have lost our two top scorers from last year". The scoring will have to improve for sure. I believe it will be much more balanced than before, since the inside guy will be huge and be able to deliver inside and distribute as well. The key will be the ability of the guys to hit the outside shots we weren't making last year.

I am pumped for the next season. This will be a great year.

mhg

[kshoe]

Brad gave Dwayne the ball on the first day of practice and said he was the starting pg. Even when DP struggled early he didn't pull him for the more experience yet less talented Drejaj. Brad is not afraid to play young players if they are good.

As for losing our top two scorers while that may technically be true the fact is Reggie missed or was severely limited for about half the games last year and this team learned to play without him. It could be argued we played better when he wasn't on the court and the younger players didn't defer to him, even when he was hurt. They did NOT learn to create shots without the help of IO but hopefully lisch and Liddell will fill that scoring void.

SLU72 - will you really be ESTATIC if we finish .500? Man that is a terrible attitude to take and I truly hope you are alone in those thoughts. With expectations like those Brad will never have to worry about job security.

[thetorch]

I concur. Polk is pure pg no question. He is not going anywhere wether it be the bench or 2 guard. Liddell can be a point forward maybe like Garcia was on L'Ville but no way will Brad give him the reins after one year at prep. Lisch is nice but he has better things to do than break down presses. I want Lisch finishing not starting plays. Our guard rotation will be totally interchangeable with the top 5 getting about the same minutes unless someone really comes out or is really hot. But Polk will be the man handling the ball in crunchtime.

[VTIME]

What makes you think Lisch is better than Polk? Polk was top 50 in his class before his injury. He led a team to an undefeated season and he was all-metro player of the year. Lisch didnt do any of those things. Lisch isnt better than Polk. Polk only struggled last year because he was out of position. He never played pg in high school. People assume because he's 5'9 he was the pg, but he was always the off-guard and only led the team in assists as a a senior because he saw double and triple teams all season. He's a shooting guard.

[p diddy]

for those who haven't seen lisch, he is really outstanding. it doesn't matter where you put him in the backcourt. his position is guard, plain and simple. he wasn't at the nike camp and he wasn't an aau all-american, but so what. nobody plays with the passion on BOTH ends of the floor at all times. kevin routinely dominated the pre-season pickup games during the fall before his senior year at althoff.

if tommie liddell with his special gifts, would bring it like kevin does, he could be a NBA lottery pick. a guard is guard. if you can shoot, pass, dribble and think, you can be an outstanding guard. kevin, tommie and dwayne are capable of doing all three.

Jimmy mckinney was an all-american, player of the year, three state titles. darren brooks got no recruiting looks. in college, brooks was a star and jimmy has struggled miserably in columbia still trying to locate his game. it's been close to 15 years since a vashon player has figured prominently on a college team that went to the NCAA Tournament. I think Dwayne will be one who will break that trend.

what it means it that those high school credentials are nice left there when you put on that college uniform.

i could be wrong, but i'm of the opinion that lisch would have been a starter on the 2004-05 billikens.

i don't really care who is better. the main thing is that all three are top-notch players and they belong to us.

bad boyz for life

[SLU_Nick]

Ok guys this is the gospel according to Nick

IV- Playing as much as he can handle, offense running through him most of the time because he is a good passer

JJ- (Wildcard)- I would love to see him start on the free throw line on offese and knock down the 12 footer (which we have seen him do) to open up the middle for IV and slashers.

Obi- Im not informed enough

Bryce- Play 12-15 mins a game planted in the middle. We have seen him be aggressive on D but his offense was nowhere to be found last year, so other people will have to shoot.

Luke M- He will (should) start at the 3. He has shown as a FRESHMAN that he can take care of the basketball which soderberg loves. He has also shown that he plays defense well as evidenced by his solid performance on Francisco Garcia last year. He will be able to get his shot off this year with TL and KL penetrating and LM can get the rim (and the line) himself. He is a Hard Worker and he will earn it in practice.

TL- Starting at the 2, He is a good passer and will really be able to run with Polk. Last year polk would beat everyone downcourt and no onc could run with him. TL can, and there will be many nice passes from polk to TL for the fastbreak score.

Lisch- (Wildcard)- I would love to see KL come in and play hard nosed D and create his own shot just like he could pre surgery. But his quickness was a big reason why he could play D and create his own shot. Now all this stuff about his positive recovery we are hearing is good, but I would still play DP,LM,TL, with 100% healthy knees than KL with less. That was the realist/pessimist view that rarely escapes my mouth.

DP- Will play and run and every chance, knocking down open jumpers will keep him on the floor for 30-35 mins, missing them and then our favorite hard nosed New Jerseyan will come in do what he does.

DB- Will run and play hard nosed D- play about 16-20 mins a game. Finishing and knocking down threes (which we saw a glimpse of a good shooter last year) will keep him on the floor

Drejaj- I think you know my policy

Peyton Jacks- will use the fact that he is on the bball team to pimp the ladies. And will continue to rain fade away threes in anyones eye in practice.

[SLUBALL]

Reggie averaged 12.2 pts per game and IO 11.8. That'a 24 of the 56.4 points we averaged as a team. 42% of our offense came from two indiviuals and you are suggesting injured newbies or players who haven't played any substantial minutes in a Billikan uniform as the answer. Pass the Kool Aid, please. As bad as you say Reggie was he was still our leading scorer. Who is going to give us 24 pts per game? You suggest Luke Meyer. CB would not even play him until the last third of the season. JJ couldn't average 6 pts per game because he will never get the minutes. If we can't win 10 games with RB and IO how are we going to win more without them?

Just tell me the point production per player to get us out of the 50's?