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@billiken_roy is spot on. At this time SLU needs to worry about winning basketball games in the conference it's in. SLU needs to build a program with a tradition of winning basketball with all the fixings, sweet 16s, a rabid fanbase, all the merch of the big boys, etc.

Until we do that the Big East isn't going to come calling. It hurts me to type is as much as I'm sure it's going to anger everyone to read it. I desperately want to be in the Big East club with all the Marquette alum I work with. Sometimes the truth hurts.

That said, if SLU REALLY wants to change conferences. The MVC is the most logical landing place. I get it, it feels like a step backwards. Maybe it is, but I see the MVC hot on the A10's heels. I would personally get more excited about playing teams like Loyola, Southern IL, Missouri St., and Valparaiso than all the east coast schools. How many of you know someone what went to a rival A10 school? I sure don't, but I know a bunch that went to schools in the MVC. AND try this one on for size, we convince Dayton to come with to the MVC with us and all of the sudden you're looking at a heck of a conference. A conference with natural geographical rivalries. A conference where the conference tournament is played in our backyard. A conference where we would be treated like we were wanted instead of the redheaded stepchild.

 

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1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

Coach Ford has lifted us from bottom 4 in the conference to top 4 in the conference despite Situation 2 and the 33 Day Pause.  The next step is top 2 in the conference and regular NCAA bids.  If you would have told me that was attainable after Crews, I would have laughed in your face.  

Being truly, consistently in the top 4 sounds pretty good. Call the A10 a 2.5 bid conference, that'd be 5 trips to the dance every 8 years (and the NIT the other 3). That level of consistency (and tournament dollar$) should garner some attention. 

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3 hours ago, cgeldmacher said:

I just came up with what I think is a radical idea to deal with our conference problems.  I doubt it will happen, but wanted to throw it out there.  I'm sure that folks will come up with several reasons this won't work.  If you think it won't, go ahead and tell me why.  I won't be offended.  Here goes.

The A-10 Conference and the American Athletic Conference reach an agreement to merge.  However, they maintain the two separate conferences so that they keep two automatic bids and previous NCAA Tournament credits.  Next season the top teams in the A-10 and the top teams in the AAC will be placed in once conference.  The bottom teams are placed in the other.  This ensure that the top teams get better games to give them the best chance of going to the tournament.  It also gives the bottom teams better competition at their level and a chance to win an automatic bid.

At the end of each season there would be a relegation process where the bottom three teams in the top level conference get dropped down.  In turn the top three teams in the lower conference get moved up to play the better teams.  As many of you know, this is similar to what happens in European soccer leagues.  This set up creates pressure for schools to stay invested in their basketball programs and remain competitive.

Tournament credits would be split only amongst the teams that were in your conference the year they were earned.  So, even if your team get relegated, you still earn that money if you played with the teams that earned it in that particular year.

A conference set up like this would give that top conference a talent level at or near the Big East.  I have to think this would be a 4 to 7 bid league every year.  It also solves the Fordham problem for the A-10 and similar situation(s) in the current AAC.

For non-basketball programs, everything could remain the same, or maybe SLU could end up with some better regional matchups in those sports as well.  How the non-revenue sports would be dealt with would just have to be worked out.

Thoughts?

Relegation is the only interesting thing (to me) in soccer.  If the NCAA would alow it, this would be AWESOME!

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1 hour ago, TaLBErt said:

@billiken_roy is spot on. At this time SLU needs to worry about winning basketball games in the conference it's in. SLU needs to build a program with a tradition of winning basketball with all the fixings, sweet 16s, a rabid fanbase, all the merch of the big boys, etc.

Until we do that the Big East isn't going to come calling. It hurts me to type is as much as I'm sure it's going to anger everyone to read it. I desperately want to be in the Big East club with all the Marquette alum I work with. Sometimes the truth hurts.

That said, if SLU REALLY wants to change conferences. The MVC is the most logical landing place. I get it, it feels like a step backwards. Maybe it is, but I see the MVC hot on the A10's heels. I would personally get more excited about playing teams like Loyola, Southern IL, Missouri St., and Valparaiso than all the east coast schools. How many of you know someone what went to a rival A10 school? I sure don't, but I know a bunch that went to schools in the MVC. AND try this one on for size, we convince Dayton to come with to the MVC with us and all of the sudden you're looking at a heck of a conference. A conference with natural geographical rivalries. A conference where the conference tournament is played in our backyard. A conference where we would be treated like we were wanted instead of the redheaded stepchild.

 

Other than loyola, i have no use for the valley.   Going there is akin to giving up and we'd be destined to be in a third rate bus league forever.   

Also from a student recruiting tool, very few slu students come from the towns (not cities) that make up the mvc.  I wouldnt doubt if there are more students coming to slu from the cities that fordham and LaSalle are in then the entire mvc.

We will never be in the mvc thank god

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3 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

Other than loyola, i have no use for the valley.   Going there is akin to giving up and we'd be destined to be in a third rate bus league forever.   

Also from a student recruiting tool, very few slu students come from the towns (not cities) that make up the mvc.  I wouldnt doubt if there are more students coming to slu from the cities that fordham and LaSalle are in then the entire mvc.

We will never be in the mvc thank god

Oh. Okay.

People that think Saint Louis University's basketball program to too bigtime for the MVC crack me up. The MVC has the exact same number of teams in the tournament as the A10.

Moving on.

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16 hours ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Really SLU has no better and available place to go than the A10.

I agree with recruiting Loyola Chicago and Belmont into the A10.  But it takes two to tango.  And in this case, SLU would still have to convince the East Coast members who are likely adverse to flying more teams to the Central Time Zone on planes, and the Southern 4.

The A10 does have a Catholic and Jesuit core that might be supportive of adding Loyola Chicago (Jesuit):

Jesuit (3):  SLU, St. Joseph's, Fordham (and No, Fordham is not going to be kicked out of the A10;  if Fordham goes, it will be Fordham's decision).

Catholic (7):  SLU, St. Joseph's, Fordham, St. Bonaventure, Duquesne, LaSalle, Dayton.

Perhaps the Southern 4 +1 (Richmond, VCU, George Mason, Davidson + George Washington) can be convinced to add Belmont.

Based upon what we just saw, with the A10 moving its Tournament to Richmond, VA and its Championship Game to Dayton, with SLU's bid to host the Tourney not surprisingly rejected, SLU needs to build coalitions, can't go at this alone.  SLU is on an A10 island, 3 miles West of the Mississippi, the only Central Time Zone A10 member, with 2 whole states and 5 drive hours separating it from the next nearest A10 member, Dayton.

Belmont gets no respect from the NCAA - just look what happened to them this year.  Belmont is not a team that upgrades the A10.

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2 hours ago, cheeseman said:

Belmont gets no respect from the NCAA - just look what happened to them this year.  Belmont is not a team that upgrades the A10.

Belmont was 25-4, NET 90, playing in the Low Con OVC, the 24th ranked of 31 D-1 conferences in ‘21. The OVC is a 1 bid NCAA Tournament league. Belmont was on the 4 team standby list for the NIT.

The point is for SLU to have more influence in the A10, it needs more geographically closer partner members. Nashville is a 4.5 hour drive from St. Louis, in the Central Time Zone, and a red hot city, a place and state into which people are moving.

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41 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Belmont was 25-4, NET 90, playing in the Low Con OVC, the 24th ranked of 31 D-1 conferences in ‘21. The OVC is a 1 bid NCAA Tournament league. Belmont was on the 4 team standby list for the NIT.

The point is for SLU to have more influence in the A10, it needs more geographically closer partner members. Nashville is a 4.5 hour drive from St. Louis, in the Central Time Zone, and a red hot city, a place and state into which people are moving.

This year proved that the NET meant nothing.  If you play in a weak conference you can really run up the wins column.  

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2 hours ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Belmont was 25-4, NET 90, playing in the Low Con OVC, the 24th ranked of 31 D-1 conferences in ‘21. The OVC is a 1 bid NCAA Tournament league. Belmont was on the 4 team standby list for the NIT.

The point is for SLU to have more influence in the A10, it needs more geographically closer partner members. Nashville is a 4.5 hour drive from St. Louis, in the Central Time Zone, and a red hot city, a place and state into which people are moving.

Belmont is basically Davidson.  Adding them would make us the strongest mid-major conference in the nation but we'll still be considered a mid-major.  It would take years of knocking off P6 teams out of conference to change that.  And if the balance of the power ever shifted that way, P6 teams would just stop playing us.

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50 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

This year proved that the NET meant nothing.  If you play in a weak conference you can really run up the wins column.  

The NCAA Tournament selected field proved that the NET was paramount, 95% dispositive. The NCAA followed the NET in 35 of the 37 at large bids, with only 2 variances among the 37 at larges, those 2 being already eliminated 70 Mich. State and 72 Wichita State. Regrettably one of the two excised from the NCAA Tourney field was 43 SLU.

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If SLU wants more influence in the A-10, if SLU wants to join the Big East, etc....win more games, more often.

SLU's annual finishes in A-10:

7,3,9,5,4,10,2,1,1,14,12,11,5,6,4,4

This isn't good enough. 

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, courtside said:

If SLU wants more influence in the A-10, if SLU wants to join the Big East, etc....win more games, more often.

SLU's annual finishes in A-10:

7,3,9,5,4,10,2,1,1,14,12,11,5,6,4,4

This isn't good enough. 

 

 

 

The need to win more games is undisputed here. 

Positive change is needed to stop what happened in '21, the A-10 advancing its Tourney a week, thereby depriving 2 games from being played, and moving the Tourney to Richmond, Virginia, including giving VCU a windfall of 2 home games, and the title game in Dayton.

That tourney one week advance, 2 game deletion, and change of venue really damaged SLU, may well have cost SLU (NCAA NET qualifying 43) an NCAA at large bid.  The A-10 gets and splits 25% of a team's NCAA Unit. So the A-10 decisions may well have damaged the other league members too.

SLU should be building coalitions to get Loyola Chicago and Belmont (Nashville) into the A-10. SLU will never wield the influence it should in the A-10 as a Central Time Zone island.

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2 hours ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

The need to win more games is undisputed here. 

Positive change is needed to stop what happened in '21, the A-10 advancing its Tourney a week, thereby depriving 2 games from being played, and moving the Tourney to Richmond, Virginia, including giving VCU a windfall of 2 home games, and the title game in Dayton.

That tourney one week advance, 2 game deletion, and change of venue really damaged SLU, may well have cost SLU (NCAA NET qualifying 43) an NCAA at large bid.  The A-10 gets and splits 25% of a team's NCAA Unit. So the A-10 decisions may well have damaged the other league members too.

SLU should be building coalitions to get Loyola Chicago and Belmont (Nashville) into the A-10. SLU will never wield the influence it should in the A-10 as a Central Time Zone island.

We're closer to being a top 2 team in the conference than we are to convincing an East Coast league to accept more Midwestern competitors.

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6 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

We're closer to being a top 2 team in the conference than we are to convincing an East Coast league to accept more Midwestern competitors.

That is probably true.

While I don't accept what happened, and see a clear double standard for a SLU vis-a-vis a Michigan State, SLU probably flunked a subjective eye test with that Committee when it came down to the nitty gritty.

My biggest beef of all with the A10 was advancing that Tournament a week.  That deprived SLU and other A10 teams of 2 more games, and likely 1 more key road game.  In probability and depending upon the opponent, which very well would have been @St. Bona, SLU likely doesn't win that road game.  But the A10 deprived SLU of its last clear chance, its chance to rectify the no quality road wins issue.

 

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8 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

We're closer to being a top 2 team in the conference than we are to convincing an East Coast league to accept more Midwestern competitors.

I don't know that you are right about the Beast. They very well may want a mid-west team to go along with Creighton. 

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20 hours ago, TaLBErt said:

@billiken_roy is spot on. At this time SLU needs to worry about winning basketball games in the conference it's in. SLU needs to build a program with a tradition of winning basketball with all the fixings, sweet 16s, a rabid fanbase, all the merch of the big boys, etc.

Until we do that the Big East isn't going to come calling. It hurts me to type is as much as I'm sure it's going to anger everyone to read it. I desperately want to be in the Big East club with all the Marquette alum I work with. Sometimes the truth hurts.

That said, if SLU REALLY wants to change conferences. The MVC is the most logical landing place. I get it, it feels like a step backwards. Maybe it is, but I see the MVC hot on the A10's heels. I would personally get more excited about playing teams like Loyola, Southern IL, Missouri St., and Valparaiso than all the east coast schools. How many of you know someone what went to a rival A10 school? I sure don't, but I know a bunch that went to schools in the MVC. AND try this one on for size, we convince Dayton to come with to the MVC with us and all of the sudden you're looking at a heck of a conference. A conference with natural geographical rivalries. A conference where the conference tournament is played in our backyard. A conference where we would be treated like we were wanted instead of the redheaded stepchild.

 

The MVC had 4 teams ranked in the top 150 the A10 has 10.

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Just to take this back to the MVC discussion without citing anyone, this is the first year, in the last 10+, where the MVC and A10 have the same number if bids. In the past, arguments that we should move to the MVC were pretty harshly rejected. That said, if the A10 and MVC have the same number of bids moving forward, then the A10 is just not a smart conference for basketball bids. The A10 is a better conference. More academically talented schools, and better basketball, more Jesuit schools also. But also more competition for 2 bids.

I grew up an MVC fan, so I am entirely biased.

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1 hour ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

The NCAA Tournament selected field proved that the NET was paramount, 95% dispositive. The NCAA followed the NET in 35 of the 37 at large bids, with only 2 variances among the 37 at larges, those 2 being already eliminated 70 Mich. State and 72 Wichita State. Regrettably one of the two excised from the NCAA Tourney field was 43 SLU.

Was Drake in the top 37 they were below SLU 

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2 hours ago, willie said:

I don't know that you are right about the Beast. They very well may want a mid-west team to go along with Creighton. 

I've seen no evidence of it.  They had the opportunity to grab an ascending Dayton program two years ago and they opted for UConn. 

The goal is to be a tournament-worthy team no matter what conference we're in.  We're very close to being a top two team in the conference.  If we can get there, we're a regular tournament team.  If the Big East changes their mind, we've put ourselves in the best possible position to be chosen.  

 

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4 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

Just to take this back to the MVC discussion without citing anyone, this is the first year, in the last 10+, where the MVC and A10 have the same number if bids. In the past, arguments that we should move to the A10 were pretty harshly rejected. That said, if the A10 and MVC have the same number of bids moving forward, then the A10 is just not a smart conference for basketball bids. The A10 is a better conference. More academically talented schools, and better basketball, more Jesuit schools also. But also more competition for 2 bids.

I grew up an MVC fan, so I am entirely biased.

The difference is the MVC has better leadership and people who understand how the system works. Both Drake and Loyola played Mo State (97)and Ind State (120)on the road twice. The schedule was adjusted to accommodate this. It allowed them both 4 quad 2 wins rather than 2 quad 2 and 2 quad 3’s which a home and home would have given them. 

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17 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Was Drake in the top 37 they were below SLU 

Yes, Drake was 45.  

SLU really did get snubbed.

A review of the last 8 at large bids, per the NET, At Large Bids 30-37 reveals:

At Large Bid, NET, Team

30, 40 Syracuse;  31, 41 Clemson;  32, 43 SAINT LOUIS;  33, 45 DRAKE;  34, 46 UCLA;  35, 47 MIssouri;  36, 48 Virginia Tech;  37, 49 Duke.

So SLU should have been the 6th to last team IN, not even in the Last 4.

Conclusion:  SNUB.

The 2 excisions from a pure NET field were 43 SLU and 49 Duke.  If Duke was out of the running, unclear, then the next in line was 50 Boise State, followed by 51 Colorado State.  SLU and Duke were replaced in the NCAA field by 70 Michigan State and 72 Wichita State, both already eliminated from the NCAA.

I also question the NCAA replacement list order of 1. 56 Louisville, 2. 51 Colorado State, 3. 43 SLU, and 53 Ole Miss.   I question both the order and the exclusion of 52 Memphis from that list.

 

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4 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Yes, Drake was 45.  

SLU really did get snubbed.

A review of the last 8 at large bids, per the NET, At Large Bids 30-37 reveals:

At Large Bid, NET, Team

30, 40 Syracuse;  31, 41 Clemson;  32, 43 SAINT LOUIS;  33, 45 DRAKE;  34, 46 UCLA;  35, 47 MIssouri;  36, 48 Virginia Tech;  37, 49 Duke.

So SLU should have been the 6th to last team IN, not even in the Last 4.

Conclusion:  SNUB.

The 2 excisions from a pure NET field were 43 SLU and 49 Duke.  They were replaced by 70 Michigan State and 72 Wichita State, both already eliminated from the NCAA.

 

I don’t see them replaced by Mich St and Wich St . If you’re going by straight net they were replaced by all teams with a higher net. Those 2 just happen to be the worst cases

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Drake's 2nd best win in NET was 97.

I would have had SLU in over Drake, Wichita St., Michigan St., Utah State, Syracuse, etc...but SLU didn't help itself multiple times either.

SLU caught a tough break this year.

Can Travis Ford take SLU from near A-10 bottom to consistently at or near A-10 top? He has done a nice job getting SLU back to their 16 year A-10 average or top 5 ish. (SLU's avg A-10 finish is 6 in 16 years) League titles, NCAA Tourneys, Wins in NCAA's? That is the next step.

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3 minutes ago, courtside said:

Drake's 2nd best win in NET was 97.

I would have had SLU in over Drake, Wichita St., Michigan St., Utah State, Syracuse, etc...but SLU didn't help itself multiple times either.

SLU caught a tough break this year.

Can Travis Ford take SLU from near A-10 bottom to consistently at or near A-10 top? He has done a nice job getting SLU back to their 16 year A-10 average or top 5 ish. (SLU's avg A-10 finish is 6 in 16 years) League titles, NCAA Tourneys, Wins in NCAA's? That is the next step.

I think so, courtside.  While there always seems to be something at SLU, like some dark cloud reappears and hovers over the program, at least my answer is:  Yes.

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26 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

The MVC had 4 teams ranked in the top 150 the A10 has 10.

That's a fair point and one that I absolutely overlooked. Still, I think the MVC is a conference on the rise, and I still think if Dayton could be convinced to come with we might really have something.

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