Taj79 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 ..... how bad is it? The silence coming from me during games has prompted the wife to yell at multiple times "are you sure you're watching the Billikens?" "Yes. Why?" "There's no b*tchign or screaming." Yes, folks, we have returned to rock bottom. The "who cares" part of the last GDT says it all. Nothing I can say here hasn't been said already. So I'll try and keep it short. Deaux is last year all over again. But I am not surprised. Many of us have lamented the overall lack of talent that seems to permeate this team. The problem seems to be a deadly combination of the staff being unable to identify talent coupled with a similar failure to be able to develop any talent, topped off by some combo of disinterest and lackluster play while being forced into a system designed to result in who knows what. The players: Gillmann, Jolly,Neufeld, Agbeko and Bartley all appear to be "projects." Nothing wrong with having a project. But having five projects all at the same time is ludicrous. And two of the five start. And four of the five are all bigs on a roster who's coaching staff contains nary a"big." Just who is teaching them what? Gillmann was a whimpy stretch five last year. He is again this year. Jolly was worthless and remains so. Has he seen the floor since his ISU debacle but even if he did, he produces one charge call per game. Not a bad return on the tuition investment. Agbeko ---- I love Reggie's get up and go and rebounding. The rest is non-existent. Neufeld? Not holding out much hope. What happen to him being aprep player and Canadian national team player? Bartley is a project because it's still obvious he's not a true point guard. Yacoubou is about to start playing for himself and a future paycheck. It will be in Cyprus or somewhere but he will. Plus, when faced with equal athletes, he disappears. Crawford appears to have peaked. Roby regressed but is coming back but seems to have lost the defensive desire we knew. Reynolds has risen the most ---- but since he started off "dead' given last year's fiasco,even a slight movement from him is noticeable. Bishop has shown little for who three-star says is the best true point on the team. Really? Are we that lacking? Yarbrough is still too inconsistent and too caught between positions. On almost every play last night, he's bringing the ball up. Says a lot right there about our roster, our guards and our coaching staff to me. These are the same characteristics we all saw and fell in love with last year. The coaches: clean house. This staff's problem is stated up top -- can't identify or develop talent. I found it an unfortunate position to be in given what happened to Majerus and us being "stuck" with Crews. We had no choice ---- what would it have said if SLU cuts the guy who guided us through heartache and sorrow to out best years ever? No, the program would have suffered a major hit on the national scene. Had to do it. Well we did. Now, as matter-of-factly as before, it is time to cut bait and move on. Frankly, i don't care of the whole roster moves on with him as well. I'd keep some for sure but there isn't a guy out there I'd scream "no puh-lease stay!" MB says Crews has only had two years of recruiting. Maybe so. But as coach, he showed no ability to develop Lancona, Glaze, Manning or McBroom. None. So even if he didn't recruit them and we give him a pass there, he certainly did nothing to develop them either. That trend is just as scary. Another item is we had the latest local legend wrapped up with a bow and ready fro delivery and Crews couldn't seal that deal. Maybe no one coudl have but if you have a hot shot kid in high school looking for a free ride and potential NBA riches, are you sending him to play for Jim Crews? I am not. I had us at 8 and 4 in the OOC and getting 4 or five A10 wins (all at home) for 12 or 13 total. That's why I voted the way I did in the preseason poll .. 10 to 13 wins was the option. We now appear to be trending towards single digit wins. And next year, we trade Ash Yacoubou for Zeke Moore. From reports, Moore is raw, a shooter, with no exhibited desire to do the rest of the work to be a complete player. So he'll bring a jump shot to the place jump shots go to die and play for a coach who employs the "YANK" with freedom and flair. There's a great combo in the making. The first marker has been met in Deaux. The OOC is done. If a C grade is given for meeting my expectations, this team gets a F. I don't really want to identify who we've lost to at home in the OOC these last two years, it is embarrassing. Adjusting fire given these new metrics, I see us still winning nothing on the road in the A10. Home wins could be Fordham, Mason, Duquesne and the Bonnies. 5 + 4 = 9. Do you realize how this decisive drop in just two years cements Majerus' mystique? He was pure genius --- in many ways. Hate to do it, this is my first use .......#firejimcrews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Should be required reading. Thanks Taj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 If you think you have it bad put yourself in season tix holders shoes. Not only are they suffering through this as you are but we paid money to do so - a lot in some cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmbilliken Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I didn't yell once watching the game either. I don't think that has ever happened before. I have no expectation of this team being competitive, let alone winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I was in the camp "wait till season end to clean house on this coaching staff". Not any more. Pick any 5 professors on campus to fill the roles till season end and make the move now. At least you would be telling us loyals change is definitely coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwayne's_World Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I still don't agree with the idea that the AD "had" to hire Crews or else suffer a blow to rep on the national scene. We could have easily just thanked Crews and moved on. I don't think anyone would have given SLU a hard time for making a long term program decision. May took the easy route and it has cost us big time. Rebuilding after this debacle could take years.... He should be on the chopping block along with Crews IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I still don't agree with the idea that the AD "had" to hire Crews or else suffer a blow to rep on the national scene. We could have easily just thanked Crews and moved on. I don't think anyone would have given SLU a hard time for making a long term program decision. May took the easy route and it has cost us big time. Rebuilding after this debacle could take years.... He should be on the chopping block along with Crews IMO. It wasn't May's decision to hire Crews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 You could have saved a lot of time and thought, Taj Mahal 79. This fiasco can be summed up in four words, we flat out suck. Hopefully, when the admin sees a near empty student section, a lower bowl half full with mostly seat poachers, an empty upper ring, and TV's in the luxury boxes tuned into watching real D1 games, they will act and act quickly. A reading of the GDT will show you the extent of the malaise. There was a glimmer of excitement from posters in the first half, but still you could sense everyone knew the meltdown was coming. Or worse yet, most really wanted a meltdown to further drive the "we suck" point home even harder. May should know by know that we have a roster filled w/13 scholarship athletes that are costing SLU approximately $500k a year. He has to have seen enough by now that these guys can't hack it at this level. All of them are Crews' recruits, so obviously the HC can't determine a recruit's ability to play D1 ball. That's a critical job responsibility. He also has to realize they won't be able to cut it going forward and the next two years will be equally as bad. It's time. Time to clean house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU_Nick Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I dont even feel like this is a real season. I simply do not care. The only glimmer of goodness here is that Vegas has not learned to make the Bills 2nd half point spreads somewhere between 20-25 points. Last night's 2H line was KSU -5.5. Free money. Just load up on whoever is playing the bills. Taking the opponent in the 2nd half is undefeated since Louisville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I was in the camp "wait till season end to clean house on this coaching staff". Not any more. Pick any 5 professors on campus to fill the roles till season end and make the move now. At least you would be telling us loyals change is definitely coming. Today is Dr. B's birthday. (Happy Birthday, Doc.) Perhaps that should be his present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmbilliken Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 It wasn't May's decision to hire Crews. Whose decision was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Whose decision was it?Biondi's and the guy's paying the freight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Biondi's and the guy's paying the freight. Well if what you say is true then the guys paying the freight need to fix this mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Well if what you say is true then the guys paying the freight need to fix this mess. It is the way Biondi always operated with the men's head coaching job. Why would anyone think it was different with Crews? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adman Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Taj, excellent post. Summary of what many on this board feel. A few things to add or amplify: Absolutely burns me up when I see posters set the bar so low for future...we'll never see program at Majerus level again, etc. Back to the old defeatist mindset. To SLU's credit, they had a two-pronged strategy to change this: build a state of the art facility and hire a state of the art coach to attract players for Top 50 program. Then build upon it, get on TV more, get to next level. They largely succeeded (Big East invite excepted.) Obviously, this can be done. Gonzaga wasn't always Gonzaga. Then Biondi tired of Rickma, Rickma died, and for variety of uncertain but likely reasons (PR, financial, ego, control of power, who knows what else,) the administration abandoned half of the strategy. Top 100 players aspire to play for the very best coaches. They don't wake up every morning wanting to play for Crews. He is not an aspirational guy. This was the part of the strategy the decision makers seem to have forgotten during the coach of the year swirl. Secondly, though paying a buy-out is painful, there is a financial cost to doing nothing. If SLU is worried about paying an $800K (for example) buy-out now, just wait until season tickets and single game sales go down tube. I'm not close enough to college athletics financials to do proper break-even analysis. But back of napkin, generating $800K in revenue is probably in neighborhood of 15-20,000 tickets sold across entire season (inc. concessions, parking, etc.) I'd be very surprised if the Athletic Dept isn't already feeling this. By fall '16, they're likely losing this amount. Pay now or pay later. Third, there is fear that beginning now, recruiting will be even worse. Recruits won't commit with coaching uncertainty. The longer SLU waits on decision, we recruit at C level, not competing for Top 100-type recruits until - at minimum - the year following a coaching announcement. Sobering. Finally, ending on a glass half full note, I'm optimistic this will end quickly in good way. Why? The good doctor. $20M benefactors aren't ignored. As big a fan as many of us, must be burning him up. He didn't build his company standing idly by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Panic should be setting in, but we are SLU and move slowly. Hell, it took us 2 months after season's end to fire Brad and hire Rick. What we're all hoping for that is after 4 or 5 straight Ls in A10 play, it will finally sink in that Crews has to go and go immediately. Hope Adman is right and Dr. C steps up and says not in my house anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenLaw Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Completely agree with everything in the first post of this thread. No one could have said it better than: The problem seems to be a deadly combination of the staff being unable to identify talent coupled with a similar failure to be able to develop any talent, topped off by some combo of disinterest and lackluster play while being forced into a system designed to result in who knows what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Panic should be setting in, but we are SLU and move slowly. Hell, it took us 2 months after season's end to fire Brad and hire Rick. What we're all hoping for that is after 4 or 5 straight Ls in A10 play, it will finally sink in that Crews has to go and go immediately. Hope Adman is right and Dr. C steps up and says not in my house anymore. From a PR standpoint, SLU is probably doing it correctly. Whether he leaves tomorrow or at the end of the season is basically a wash, and if they fire him summarily in the middle of the season it tarnishes the overall SLU personality. I still like the graceful resignation approach, which works better for him than many other coaches because of his age. We also have absolutely no idea whether "panic" is setting in, nor whether SLU is plodding. None of this is going to take place in the public eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 From a PR standpoint, SLU is probably doing it correctly. Whether he leaves tomorrow or at the end of the season is basically a wash, and if they fire him summarily in the middle of the season it tarnishes the overall SLU personality. I still like the graceful resignation approach, which works better for him than many other coaches because of his age. We also have absolutely no idea whether "panic" is setting in, nor whether SLU is plodding. None of this is going to take place in the public eye. I don't know what some of this means ("tarnishes the overall SLU personality" or "from a PR standpoint, SLU is probably doing it correctly"), but it seems like a lot of overthinking to me. I am not sure how it would really matter or hurt us more if we fire Crews tomorrow as opposed to in 3 months; its not like Crews is loved by the media, his players, the University community, recruits, local high school/AAU coaches, or really known nationally. Things really could not be much worse, so firing him would likely make sense to everyone who follows college basketball. Most SLU fans are completely apathetic about the program right now, not a good thing. I trust (or should I say hope) that those within the athletic department have a better feel for the pulse of the team and that could determine how necessary it is to make a change now vs. in a few months. A few weeks ago I thought it made no sense to fire Crews mid-season, but now I am not so sure. I am coming around to thinking it could be better to fire him as soon as possible if he is completely tearing these kids apart in practice and has lost the team (the team looks like it has just given up at times in each game over the past two weeks). If that is the case, things will only get worse over the next 3 months (it seems like each game things have gotten worse since the North Florida game). If the players are done with Crews, getting him out as soon as possible could be a good thing. We may see an uptick in production from some of these kids without Crews and it could at least give the next coach a chance to see whether some of these kids are worth keeping around (one of the first jobs of a new coach is recruiting the current roster and commitments). Again, I don't know the pulse of the team, but the signs on the court point to things not being good. If I am completely misreading the situation and the guys are still buying in and competing for Crews, I think you are probably right that it is a wash whether we fire him tomorrow or after the season. The question is whether every practice and game just does more harm to the program and I think currently the answer has to be yes (maybe things will get turned around in conference play, but there is nothing to suggest that is going to happen). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I agree that if he's demonstrably toxic, he oughta be outa there yesterday. As for the overall SLU personality, your sentences thereafter limit such a personality to the athletic department. I'm talking about the University as an institution. Its reputation as an employer (especially for academics) took its own nosedive under Biondi. As did its reputation as a neighbor, but that's a different issue. There are certain among us on this board (I'm looking at you, BRoy) who remember the Reinert persona when it came to SLU's reputation as opposed to the Biondi persona. If SLU simply lets the nice older man finish out his season and retire gracefully, it gains some amount of brownie points over simply showing him the door. The counterargument, of course, is that booting him now shows "we're serious" about our basketball program, but let's face it -- we aren't. We probably never have been, but that's a discussion for a different day. And, in any event, right now the number of people who care whether we are or we aren't is fairly small. As I've noted several times in these threads, if (and, I do believe, when) we get a new coach, it's going to be a splashy hire with a high-tier salary and lots of guarantees on recruiting budgets, travel, etc. And neither the athletic department nor the University administration are going to have a heck of a lot to do with the process beyond advice and consent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I am not sure what keeping him around for the rest of the season does. I know right now, we need to tell people that this situation is not tolerable and that we are moving forward not sinking. The players need to know that we are going to look for a new coach so give us a chance and wait before you decide to transfer. I know some think our talent level is low but we really can not have a wholesale transfer sale take place. The new coach has to be able to have a team to play next year and he really does not want to waste all of his time in the Spring having to recruit stopgaps. He needs to start working on the future and putting together a good staff. Look what happened at Missouri - Anderson spent the spring and summer just chasing bodies for last year and you see how that worked out for them. Lets avoid this problem. How soon before the attendance of the women's program beats the men's? Keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity - did Einstein say this? Dump Crews now and lets getting working on the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I agree that if he's demonstrably toxic, he oughta be outa there yesterday. As for the overall SLU personality, your sentences thereafter limit such a personality to the athletic department. I'm talking about the University as an institution. Its reputation as an employer (especially for academics) took its own nosedive under Biondi. As did its reputation as a neighbor, but that's a different issue. There are certain among us on this board (I'm looking at you, BRoy) who remember the Reinert persona when it came to SLU's reputation as opposed to the Biondi persona. If SLU simply lets the nice older man finish out his season and retire gracefully, it gains some amount of brownie points over simply showing him the door. The counterargument, of course, is that booting him now shows "we're serious" about our basketball program, but let's face it -- we aren't. We probably never have been, but that's a discussion for a different day. And, in any event, right now the number of people who care whether we are or we aren't is fairly small. As I've noted several times in these threads, if (and, I do believe, when) we get a new coach, it's going to be a splashy hire with a high-tier salary and lots of guarantees on recruiting budgets, travel, etc. And neither the athletic department nor the University administration are going to have a heck of a lot to do with the process beyond advice and consent. The number of people who cared about SLU being successful was a much bigger number when we were actually good. Honestly, when we are now bad as with any team the number of people who care will always be small. The benevolent leader model is a dinosaur and not the way life is today - right or wrong - we have to live in reality not memories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I agree that if he's demonstrably toxic, he oughta be outa there yesterday. As for the overall SLU personality, your sentences thereafter limit such a personality to the athletic department. I'm talking about the University as an institution. Its reputation as an employer (especially for academics) took its own nosedive under Biondi. As did its reputation as a neighbor, but that's a different issue. There are certain among us on this board (I'm looking at you, BRoy) who remember the Reinert persona when it came to SLU's reputation as opposed to the Biondi persona. If SLU simply lets the nice older man finish out his season and retire gracefully, it gains some amount of brownie points over simply showing him the door. The counterargument, of course, is that booting him now shows "we're serious" about our basketball program, but let's face it -- we aren't. We probably never have been, but that's a discussion for a different day. And, in any event, right now the number of people who care whether we are or we aren't is fairly small. As I've noted several times in these threads, if (and, I do believe, when) we get a new coach, it's going to be a splashy hire with a high-tier salary and lots of guarantees on recruiting budgets, travel, etc. And neither the athletic department nor the University administration are going to have a heck of a lot to do with the process beyond advice and consent. -bonwich, is "when" before next season? certainly will will get a new coach, when is the question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 -bonwich, is "when" before next season? certainly will will get a new coach, when is the question Oh, absolutely. I'm confident the search committee is evaluating candidates right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Majerus Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Ready, shoot, aim ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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