DoctorB Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 The issues at Mizzou were also not unrelated to the implications of the "corporate university" model, and more generally the very troubling decline of higher education in America: this is truly an industry in serious doo-doo yet those outside the ivy do not yet seem very aware of this ongoing fiasco: other than the huge amounts of student debt that their children are running up every day: http://chronicle.com/article/In-Missouri-the-Downfall-of-a/234164/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Doctor B, why do you limit this to higher education? Just look at the spider webs little kids are being taught in elementary school as a way to do arithmetic. Just tell me that parents will be able to help their kids understand how to do math when they come home puzzled by this stuff. The parents are as lost as the kids with the spider web diagrams, they cannot help their kids understand them. I remember my father patiently helping me understand things in elementary school and how much I enjoyed this contact with him. Tell me how educated is America going to be when this new style of teaching math is the norm, and kids taught this way try to hit their way into algebra and calculus? Add to this the huge amounts of debt these kids will incur, and we will surely become really competitive in a world wide economic model. Please do not misunderstand, I am not in favor of the "corporate university model," just concerned with basic learning or lack thereof. Much more is at stake here than higher education. We need children who know the basics before they can learn advanced stuff. Otherwise all we are going to be graduating from colleges in future generations are consumers with degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Gotta say that common core math makes a lot of sense once you sit down and try to understand it. Once I did I realized it was nothing more than the way I learned to do mental math on my own as a kid. I think it would have helped me once I got to trig and calc if I had been taught that way from the beginning instead of having to memorize the nonsensical procedures (which were never explained in logical terms) they used to hammer in kids' heads in elementary school. This article does a good job of explaining it: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/09/21/the-dad-who-wrote-a-check-using-common-core-math-doesnt-know-what-hes-talking-about/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Gotta say that common core math makes a lot of sense once you sit down and try to understand it. Once I did I realized it was nothing more than the way I learned to do mental math on my own as a kid. I think it would have helped me once I got to trig and calc if I had been taught that way from the beginning instead of having to memorize the nonsensical procedures (which were never explained in logical terms) they used to hammer in kids' heads in elementary school. This article does a good job of explaining it: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/09/21/the-dad-who-wrote-a-check-using-common-core-math-doesnt-know-what-hes-talking-about/ I agree wholeheartedly. My second grader is starting to learn some of these concepts, which are certainly preferable to rote memorization. This is piece good as well: http://www.vox.com/2015/4/9/8376937/common-core-math-why Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I liked the article and yes, the system is logical and makes sense, but it makes it necessary for you (the adult) to relearn how to think about math. How many parents will want to relearn math in order to teach their own kids? I am not trying to be a smartass, this is a valid question. The fact that Herrmann's check image went viral means that vast amounts of people agree with what he is saying. Besides, is it not a lot faster to write a number 8 instead of a list of 10 blocks with dots and blanks? Write down the price of a modest car that way and you will have many pages of dots and blanks to deal with a number like $18,000 for a new Honda Civic. Then calculate the interest rates and payments from it and you have an incomprehensible puzzle. Yes the early numbers were based upon people piling oranges or apples or stones and counting them, but the invention of the number put an end to that. Why go back to squares and dots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I liked the article and yes, the system is logical and makes sense, but it makes it necessary for you (the adult) to relearn how to think about math. How many parents will want to relearn math in order to teach their own kids? I am not trying to be a smartass, this is a valid question. The fact that Herrmann's check image went viral means that vast amounts of people agree with what he is saying. Besides, is it not a lot faster to write a number 8 instead of a list of 10 blocks with dots and blanks? Write down the price of a modest car that way and you will have many pages of dots and blanks to deal with a number like $18,000 for a new Honda Civic. Then calculate the interest rates and payments from it and you have an incomprehensible puzzle. Yes the early numbers were based upon people piling oranges or apples or stones and counting them, but the invention of the number put an end to that. Why go back to squares and dots? Doctor B, why do you limit this to higher education? Just look at the spider webs little kids are being taught in elementary school as a way to do arithmetic. Just tell me that parents will be able to help their kids understand how to do math when they come home puzzled by this stuff. The parents are as lost as the kids with the spider web diagrams, they cannot help their kids understand them. I remember my father patiently helping me understand things in elementary school and how much I enjoyed this contact with him. Tell me how educated is America going to be when this new style of teaching math is the norm, and kids taught this way try to hit their way into algebra and calculus? Add to this the huge amounts of debt these kids will incur, and we will surely become really competitive in a world wide economic model. Please do not misunderstand, I am not in favor of the "corporate university model," just concerned with basic learning or lack thereof. Much more is at stake here than higher education. We need children who know the basics before they can learn advanced stuff. Otherwise all we are going to be graduating from colleges in future generations are consumers with degrees. OK, so we can not do things differently that is better because grown ups can not understand it? Honestly, all you have to do is sit down and take a look at it and you can figure it out. Perhaps the way you were taught is why you may have problems making the switch so why deny our youths from being able to improve their critical thinking. We have been falling behind according to some so maybe doing it the same way is not working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I agree wholeheartedly. My second grader is starting to learn some of these concepts, which are certainly preferable to rote memorization. This is piece good as well: http://www.vox.com/2015/4/9/8376937/common-core-math-why Box. My kids are in 6th and 8th grade and learned the "new math." Essentially, I have no problem with its efforts designed to better explain "why" things total and add the way they do. In short, there is much more emphasis on adding and subtracting than on multiplication and division as well as the use of visual aids (number lines, boxes, charts, etc.) to solve the same equation. At the same time, some elementary and middle schools are quicker than others to switch over to or move on to teaching the "traditional" methods -- long multiplication and division, etc. To help with transition to middle school, introduction or emphasis by parents as to traditional methods has been found to be quite helpful. By 8th grade, I algebra is algebra with the only main difference being equal emphasis of solving the same with co-ordinate points and graphs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I liked the article and yes, the system is logical and makes sense, but it makes it necessary for you (the adult) to relearn how to think about math. How many parents will want to relearn math in order to teach their own kids? I am not trying to be a smartass, this is a valid question. I don't think the 5 or 10 minutes it takes to read an article like one of these and figure it out is really the problem. Is any parent who was already willing to take the time to help kids with homework really going to balk at that? It's the scary-sounding name "common core" and the ominous articles on op-ed pages (which make no effort to explain what it is) that get adults freaked out about it. The opposition is much more about politics than math or anything else. It's one of those issues where the conspiracists on both extreme ends of the spectrum succeeded in making something sound really scary until you actually give it a look. So basically it's the new Monsanto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorB Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Doctor B, why do you limit this to higher education? OK, I'll bite. Not really sure what the "this" is referring to. But the topic was higher education, down the road in Columbia, yes?? In addition: I work in higher education, and this board is at least tangentially involved in an aspect of higher education. I doubt if I was "limiting" anything. Speaking of higher education; if you REALLY want to think deeper on these issues -- here is a recent article that has a lot of educators on campus buzzing right about now. They even featured it the other night, on PBS Newshour, with the author. I cannot say I agree with everything in it, but it is good fuel for public debate. Point = are we coddling our students too much, these days?? Nota bene: if you are older than 40, please resist the knee jerk desire to say YES! But in the end, it seems pretty plausible to me... And in terms of race issues, really this may sound just too reactionary for academics. But ps: many of my students would agree with this article! http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/ As far as the New Math -- well, I cannot say much on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Box. My kids are in 6th and 8th grade and learned the "new math." Essentially, I have no problem with its efforts designed to better explain "why" things total and add the way they do. In short, there is much more emphasis on adding and subtracting than on multiplication and division as well as the use of visual aids (number lines, boxes, charts, etc.) to solve the same equation. At the same time, some elementary and middle schools are quicker than others to switch over to or move on to teaching the "traditional" methods -- long multiplication and division, etc. To help with transition to middle school, introduction or emphasis by parents as to traditional methods has been found to be quite helpful. By 8th grade, I algebra is algebra with the only main difference being equal emphasis of solving the same with co-ordinate points and graphs. and it is a good thing that by 8th grade algebra is algebra, because by 10th grade I am done helping, middle of geometry and I am done, kids are on their own.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Trying to read that mess of a message board over at tigerboard, but supposedly rumors coming out that Pinkel will be retiring as soon as this weekend. The big donors were pissed about the team getting involved and the protesters are pissed because Pinkel backed his team and didn't back the cause directly and would not speak about his "white privilege" on the radio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I saw that coming--he pulled a Jay Nixon and managed to piss all sides off at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I saw that coming--he pulled a Jay Nixon and managed to piss all sides off at once. Haha, so true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 Trying to read that mess of a message board over at tigerboard, but supposedly rumors coming out that Pinkel will be retiring as soon as this weekend. The big donors were pissed about the team getting involved and the protesters are pissed because Pinkel backed his team and didn't back the cause directly and would not speak about his "white privilege" on the radio. Both groups need to grow up. The guy did incredibly well in a no win situation. This is the problem with this whole country today. Everyone has has to have a complete victory over people they politically disagree with or the feel like they are on the losing end. What did the donors want? Did they want Pinkel to denounce the players and totally destroy the program? What did the protesters want? Pinkel to denounce the white male devil and turn 90% of the voters in the state and similar percentage of donors to school against him and the state's most visible college athletic team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 He just stepped down. Wow that whole school is a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 OK, I'll bite. Not really sure what the "this" is referring to. But the topic was higher education, down the road in Columbia, yes?? In addition: I work in higher education, and this board is at least tangentially involved in an aspect of higher education. I doubt if I was "limiting" anything. Speaking of higher education; if you REALLY want to think deeper on these issues -- here is a recent article that has a lot of educators on campus buzzing right about now. They even featured it the other night, on PBS Newshour, with the author. I cannot say I agree with everything in it, but it is good fuel for public debate. Point = are we coddling our students too much, these days?? Nota bene: if you are older than 40, please resist the knee jerk desire to say YES! But in the end, it seems pretty plausible to me... And in terms of race issues, really this may sound just too reactionary for academics. But ps: many of my students would agree with this article! http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/ As far as the New Math -- well, I cannot say much on that one. Both that article and this rebuttal make some pretty good points: https://newrepublic.com/article/122543/trigger-warning-myth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 Dave Matter is saying they are going to try to say it is because of health issues. So basically, the school thinks it is a good time to try to pass off a obvious lie. What a joke that place is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 He apparently has lymphoma. But seriously I love watching SPUMAC burn. Burn baby burn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 He apparently has lymphoma. But seriously I love watching SPUMAC burn. Burn baby burn! Diagnosed in May. Wasn't a problem until the heat was on. I actually feel bad for the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Diagnosed before the season started, but he announces a resignation in the middle of the season, not to take effect until the end of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 SPUMAC being SPUMAC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 SPUMAC being SPUMAC. Mizzou is proving to be quite the Retarded Academic Throwaway Chopshop for Halfass Educated Thugs. RATCHET. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Missouri University will suffer for many years because of spineless leadership backing off from the agitators intimidation and threats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 -at the time I was not too keen on how SLU handled the clock tower stuff, but in hindsight and with the recent events down the road, SLU comes away looking real, real good -let's hope we don't have another time when we will be judged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 What I have the most concern about is the effect all of this lack of stability (coupled with stupidity if I may say so, this should never have happened in the first place if the prior administration had acted differently) will have upon the academic standing of Mizzou and affiliated institutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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