kshoe Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Anybody know anything about a PG that we may have had on campus a couple weeks ago? He may have been a 2016 or 17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 That is their game style, yes. Whether they can shoot or not is another story. who? Crawford who will be a Sr and Bartley possibly who will be a Jr? I'm not trying to be an ass, just curious which player you believe their style is that of a spot up shooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbj14 Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Anybody know anything about a PG that we may have had on campus a couple weeks ago? He may have been a 2016 or 17. Godwin Boahen is a 2016 out of Canada. Smaller guard similar in stature to bishop. Not a ton on him aside from a couple videos I posted over in the 2016 thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 who? Crawford who will be a Sr and Bartley possibly who will be a Jr? I'm not trying to be an ass, just curious which player you believe their style is that of a spot up shooter I believe Bartley is solidly there. Too slow to defend well, too weak to be paint guy. Not a good enough ball handler or quick enough to play point. He does however have a potentially deadly three, we didn't see it until the GM game though. Where jumpshots go to die, right? Bishop I think occupies at least some of that territory, along with Crawford and apparently Roby. The elephant in the room on this team is our lineup of stiffs. I know I'm really going after our guys again, but having Jolly, Neufeld, and Gillman on the same roster is basically suicide. Where do we have to actually place real players? Too much dead weight. Welmer remains a wildcard. Jolly has to go. Dude has no business being here at all. Not smart, no talent, no skills. Gillman might have some skills and could play smart, but boy is he soft. Neufeld is an enigma. I don't know if he didn't see the court because of this abhorrent staff(likely) or he just truly sucks that bad. If the latter he needs to go, if the former, let's see. The new coach needs some scholarships to balance this team out. If Zeke comes in as a frosh as an elite shooter, fine, i'll gladly take him obviously, if he needs to 'develop' or whatever else, not interested. That guy has to come in ready to play next year, not some 'wait until he's a junior' crap that we've been getting the past two years. If we are willing to ditch some of the sophs, and he can play, then he can definitely fit in here as we will have the schollies to balance out the classes and fix some of the gaping holes on this roster. Crews' roster construction has been mind boggling, puzzling, and based on the results, abysmal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I believe Bartley is solidly there. Too slow to defend well, too weak to be paint guy. Not a good enough ball handler or quick enough to play point. He does however have a potentially deadly three, we didn't see it until the GM game though. Where jumpshots go to die, right? Bishop I think occupies at least some of that territory, along with Crawford and apparently Roby. The elephant in the room on this team is our lineup of stiffs. I know I'm really going after our guys again, but having Jolly, Neufeld, and Gillman on the same roster is basically suicide. Where do we have to actually place real players? Too much dead weight. Welmer remains a wildcard. Jolly has to go. Dude has no business being here at all. Not smart, no talent, no skills. Gillman might have some skills and could play smart, but boy is he soft. Neufeld is an enigma. I don't know if he didn't see the court because of this abhorrent staff(likely) or he just truly sucks that bad. If the latter he needs to go, if the former, let's see. The new coach needs some scholarships to balance this team out. If Zeke comes in as a frosh as an elite shooter, fine, i'll gladly take him obviously, if he needs to 'develop' or whatever else, not interested. That guy has to come in ready to play next year, not some 'wait until he's a junior' crap that we've been getting the past two years. If we are willing to ditch some of the sophs, and he can play, then he can definitely fit in here as we will have the schollies to balance out the classes and fix some of the gaping holes on this roster. Crews' roster construction has been mind boggling, puzzling, and based on the results, abysmal. I'm not sure ... actually, I am sure ... I would not say a spot up shooter is Bishop's style. Bartley ... I see the shooting skill and he hasn't seemed to develop what we were hoping would be his real skill set as a pg. So I see that assessment. Crawford is more than that though he possess the ability to shoot, I believe he's developed into more than that. Imo we don't have a guy on the roster except maybe Bartley whose style you would call a spot up shooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I'm not sure ... actually, I am sure ... I would not say a spot up shooter is Bishop's style. Bartley ... I see the shooting skill and he hasn't seemed to develop what we were hoping would be his real skill set as a pg. So I see that assessment. Crawford is more than that though he possess the ability to shoot, I believe he's developed into more than that. Imo we don't have a guy on the roster except maybe Bartley whose style you would call a spot up shooter I think you're right that Bishop is more versatile than that characterization. I just don't think Bartley has the speed to be a PG-type player. A good spot-up shooter is a dangerous, dangerous offensive weapon, so please don't take it as me knocking Marcus. I think a spot-up guy can have a more versatile skill-set, absolutely, but I do believe guys have core talents and skills, like DE as the undersized post-player who extended his game with a mid-range jumper, and Jett who was a slash-and-drive guy who developed the same shot and expanded his game by bringing the defenses out, making space and opening. The guys we talked about I think have real potential and talent. Bartley obviously has to stay injury-free. Bishop I think may have the speed to be much more than a spot up shooter, and may develop some PG skills(? big question mark) and Crawford has the size to expand his game to the inside. If Zeke is truly an elite-level shooter, I want him here regardless. Let me just make that clear. But this is where jump shots go to die, at least historically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I forget whole posted the stat that RM used to evaluate a shooter. FG % + 3pt%+FT%, and 180 I think was the cutoff. MB 172.1 JB 159.6 MC 156.5 DR 152.5 Now MB is perhaps inflated by FT 17/18, as MC took 3 times as many. But IF Zeke's stats are accurate......wow 194.6. Granted those will come down some....would like to compare MC high school stats if anyone has those. also what is striking regarding JB is his stats are likely to improve as he adds strength and his shot selection improves.... So back to whether we want Zeke. Do we want someone who potentially is a better shooter than anyone on our team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I think you're right that Bishop is more versatile than that characterization. I just don't think Bartley has the speed to be a PG-type player. A good spot-up shooter is a dangerous, dangerous offensive weapon, so please don't take it as me knocking Marcus. I think a spot-up guy can have a more versatile skill-set, absolutely, but I do believe guys have core talents and skills, like DE as the undersized post-player who extended his game with a mid-range jumper, and Jett who was a slash-and-drive guy who developed the same shot and expanded his game by bringing the defenses out, making space and opening. The guys we talked about I think have real potential and talent. Bartley obviously has to stay injury-free. Bishop I think may have the speed to be much more than a spot up shooter, and may develop some PG skills(? big question mark) and Crawford has the size to expand his game to the inside. If Zeke is truly an elite-level shooter, I want him here regardless. Let me just make that clear. But this is where jump shots go to die, at least historically. That's simply not true. You're terrorizing yourself into an unnecessary frenzy based on the discouraging mismanagement — presumably and apparently — of the ousted coaching staff. As a whole, historically, jump-shooting skill doesn't die at SLU. Rob Loe, Cody Ellis, Kevin Lisch, Tommie Liddell (who was a bad shooter as a freshman!), Drew Diener, Virgil Cobbin, Scott Highmark, Erwin Claggett, H Waldman. Sure, there have been some players who might have shot better in high school but couldn't do that at SLU, but not all shooters. There's nothing magical in the air or water on SLU's campus that means that good shooters will automatically lose their touch when they arrive. Lose the superstition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I forget whole posted the stat that RM used to evaluate a shooter. FG % + 3pt%+FT%, and 180 I think was the cutoff. MB 172.1 JB 159.6 MC 156.5 DR 152.5 Now MB is perhaps inflated by FT 17/18, as MC took 3 times as many. But IF Zeke's stats are accurate......wow 194.6. Granted those will come down some....would like to compare MC high school stats if anyone has those. also what is striking regarding JB is his stats are likely to improve as he adds strength and his shot selection improves.... So back to whether we want Zeke. Do we want someone who potentially is a better shooter than anyone on our team? 180 would be pretty tough to reach. 50% from the field for a guard is pretty damn good. plus 40% from 3, would mean you'd have to shoot 90% from the line. Maybe that was his number, but I'd bet there aren't more than a couple of handful of guys in D1 at that number. Especially not those that shoot 7 or 8 or more shots a game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 It is hard to reach, that is the point. To me this is similar to using the OPS rather than a batting average to assess a hitter. If your OPS is 1000 you are a damn good hitter. There are more than just a handful...two on Michigan state for Instance. But the point is an elite shooter, should be at that level. I think it is a great yardstick, and should have tempered our expectation of Ash. I appreciate his years here but we should not have looked at him as a savior, and great shooter. His sophomore season 141.6 It also emphasizes the importance of FT shooting. The better FT shooter, will find it easier to raise their FG percentage, defender less likely to play hack a shack... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FromDaEastSide Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 So back to whether we want Zeke. Do we want someone who potentially is a better shooter than anyone on our team? Eventhough we have a signed LOI from Zeke, I would bet money he received from phone calls from other programs Thursday evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Eventhough we have a signed LOI from Zeke, I would bet money he received from phone calls from other programs Thursday evening. Im sure he was excited to play for Crews and Platt, not excited to stay home with his friends and family. Not buying it. If he as elite of a shooter as you guys are saying we can and should and will have him. Seriously, Crews and Platt out is just objectively good in every conceivable way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 It is hard to reach, that is the point. To me this is similar to using the OPS rather than a batting average to assess a hitter. If your OPS is 1000 you are a damn good hitter. There are more than just a handful...two on Michigan state for Instance. But the point is an elite shooter, should be at that level. I think it is a great yardstick, and should have tempered our expectation of Ash. I appreciate his years here but we should not have looked at him as a savior, and great shooter. His sophomore season 141.6 It also emphasizes the importance of FT shooting. The better FT shooter, will find it easier to raise their FG percentage, defender less likely to play hack a shack... Who are the 2 guys from Mich St? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Eventhough we have a signed LOI from Zeke, I would bet money he received from phone calls from other programs Thursday evening. Could be, but who were those letters from is the question? I got the feeling his dad wanted him close to home, so he could harass the staff. Dad kind of got stuck with the Kevin Slaten tag back when we signed him. My guess is he'll wait for the new HC then decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Who are the 2 guys from Mich St? Forbes is one 182.3 but apparently miscalculated on valentine, 176.4. I would also say that the cutoff of 180 is just my recollection, so if whoever posted it before says it is lower I would go but that. However as a yardstick to say someone is an elite shooter, one would not expect to find someone on every team. Hield on Oklahoma has the highest I have found 185.5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Forbes is one 182.3 but apparently miscalculated on valentine, 176.4. I would also say that the cutoff of 180 is just my recollection, so if whoever posted it before says it is lower I would go but that. However as a yardstick to say someone is an elite shooter, one would not expect to find someone on every team. Hield on Oklahoma has the highest I have found 185.5 I would agree. The numbers just don't make sense for there to be more than a few above 180. Hell I'd take 45 fg, 40, 3 pt, and 80 from the line all day for a guard shooting 8 plus times a game.. Maybe not elite, but very damn good and that's just 165. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 he wont be at SLU. close this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Eventhough we have a signed LOI from Zeke, I would bet money he received from phone calls from other programs Thursday evening. NLI, not LOI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 he wont be at SLU. close this thread Is he going to sit a year, because from what I understand they will not release him at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billfan78 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Forbes is one 182.3 but apparently miscalculated on valentine, 176.4. I would also say that the cutoff of 180 is just my recollection, so if whoever posted it before says it is lower I would go but that. However as a yardstick to say someone is an elite shooter, one would not expect to find someone on every team. Hield on Oklahoma has the highest I have found 185.5 Steph Curry has 187.5 this year. Hield is pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMouthBilliken Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 now what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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