Taj79 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Shock headline/topic title for sure. But discussion .... When FBLH (former Billiken Larry Hughes) came, we were all excited and gaga. Hughes' one year resulted in an NCAA bid, yes, but it only produced a 22-11 record. And I don't believe we were ever even ranked that year, were we? This is not much when you consider that a short two or three years prior to this, Spoon had us ranked and in the Dance and posting records of 23 and 6 followed by 23 and 8. Now these heights were especially sweet, considering it was the only real success this program had tasted in the modern era of NCAA basketball. Prior to 93-94, our last appearance in the Dance was 1956-57 --- and if you want to talk old, this was before I WAS BORN! And man am I old! So Hughes leaves. Short of the Miracle in Memphis, we don't sniff the Dance again until Majerus comes in and implements HIS system with HIS players and HIS expectations. The won/loss differential between Hughes one year and the start of the Majerus era was +10 games over the .500 line of things. And the bulk of that overage came in the year the 20 and 13 record got Brad Soderberg canned. And to further pale the one-year wonder of FBLH, Majerus' team eclipsed Hughes one year win mark by 4, 6 and 5 wins. So what hath FBLH wrought? In terms of sustainability, not much. It is also my opinion that this program didn't really know how to recover from a one-and-done player like FBLH. We are not Duke. We are not Kentucky. The players that came in with Hughes -- Baniak, Heinrich. Tatum and Redden --- all regressed without him there to lead (except maybe Redden who started with such a low ceiling). Collectively, because of the first-year results, the expectations for that group left behind in FBLH's wake was never achieved. FBLH made everyone better so when he left, their stock depreciated as well only we never saw that coming (at least I didn't). None of the ancillary players rumored to want to come play with FBLH ever came true. Pete Mickeal went to Cincinnati. Quentin Richardson went to Depaul. Those are the two I remember most often mentioned. But that was for FBLH Year II -- which never happened. I recall Justin Love signed here to play with FBLH. Wouldn't that have been interesting? Before anyone thinks I am advocating AGAINST FBJT -- this is NOT true. All I'm saying is either you guys are too young to remember when we had this in the recent past or you are too willing to forget that the bus stop stay of FBLH really didn't amount to much in terms of program longevity and sustainability. We got some legendary memories but little else. Getting FBJT would likely be great, but it is not the overall answer and it is not the end of the world should he go elsewhere. History shows us such to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 here's why... Tatum takes us to the final 4.... we don't win another game ever again and Id still be satisfied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0MRmxfLuNto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 FBLH didn't take us to the Final Four. Jabari Parker didn't take Duke to the Final Four. Andrew Wiggins didn't take Kansas to the Final Four. Nerlens Noel never even went to the Final Four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 That's a great clip, RisaAndGrind. Appreciate it. What is your counterpoint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I do not know about that Next Year Bill. I hope Tatum comes to SLU. I hope he decides that a good education and a top role in the local scene is worth more than the money from the NBA is worth to him. I know this may sound impossible but it is not so, people's values are the key, what JT wants deep down inside is what will determine what he does with his life. Sure there is money in the NBA, it acts like a lure and that is what it is, money. Is there anything other than money in life? Yes indeed. I hope Tatum comes to SLU and graduates from SLU, becomes a legend in this city and gets SLU up to the upper echelons of D1 basketball for 4 consecutive years. Wouldn't that be a real legacy to leave behind? Am I dreaming? Maybe, but if I am dreaming it is a beautiful dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I disagree with much of Taj's theory (shocking I know). 1) Comparing simple wins from seasons to seasons is not a good barometer as we played a much tougher schedule back then and fewer games then we did the past 3 years. 2) Spoon took the 93-94 team into the top 25 but the 94-95 team never made it. Just because Larry's team didn't make it doesn't mean it wasn't a special season, just like the 94-95 season and first NCAA tourney win in forever was a special season. 3) The goal of this program should be to make the NCAA tourney as often as possible. FBJT clearly gives us an incredible shot to do so. 4) The fallout from Larry leaving early was partly because it wasn't expected (freshmen didn't jump as early back then). With FBJT we all know he is one and done and should thus be better prepared for it. 5) Even with Larry leaving early, we still made the dance two years later, in part with the players that came because he was going to be in the program. In some ways, Larry contributed to two NCAA tournament appearances. 6) Even with the success of the past 3 years, this program is struggling to make a mark in an overcrowded St. Louis sports scene. FBJT would change all of that, even if for one year, and we would be the hot ticket. I'd immediately expect an additional 2k of season tickets to be sold. 7) I'm one that believes having a FBJT committed for 2016-17 could actually tilt the BE into finally expanding. That league is still looking to make a mark nationally and having the #1 freshmen coming in is just the type of exposure they want. There's no guarantee of this, of course, but the potential is there. 8) This is a program that has never made the Sweet 16 since the field expanded to 64. No single player has a better chance of changing that then FBJT, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I guess you haven't seen Tatum play, eh? Imagine that 1997-1998 team without Hughes. Go back and look at the 1996-1997 roster, just one season before Hughes. Virtually no talent at all, just a bunch of role players at best. That Hughes class obviously had more than just one player to improve the team, but I'd rather have had Hughes for a season than not. Just having a one-and-done is an automatic recipe for disaster the following season. It's on the coach to build strong back-to-back recruiting classes. Spoon wasn't the greatest at this, and neither were some of the coaches that followed. Is getting Tatum "the answer"? That's probably not fair to say; we're just one of ten in the running at this point. But given the talent level on our roster right now, it's certainly an attractive answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 My counterpoint is that he's the number 1 player in America. That's why I I want him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Getting Tatum is not the answer. There is no single correct answer. It is the next right play though. If SLU can get Tatum and have a successful year while he is here, then future studs will be able to think about SLU as a serious contender when we come to recruit. Tatum will likely bring an additional player or two in that class. Moreover, Hughes class did not have a supporting Junior class like FBJT will have. Roby, Bartley, Reynolds Gillman, Yarbrough and yes Jolly will be a good team by their Junior year. If SLU cannot get the son of a former player and former Law School Alum, Godson of the legend, Local Catholic High School player, and who has friends on the current team, then they will never be able to get that local star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwayne's_World Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 FBLH didn't take us to the Final Four. Jabari Parker didn't take Duke to the Final Four. Andrew Wiggins didn't take Kansas to the Final Four. Nerlens Noel never even went to the Final Four. Tatum is far better than any of those players ever were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Tatum is far better than any of those players ever were. Those guys also had better supporting casts than Tatum would at SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJumpUp Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Taj, this is one of the worst topics I have ever seen started on this board. If you don't know why we want Tatum, you can go back to watching 8th grade field hockey, because college basketball is too difficult for you to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMouthBilliken Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Lock this stupid thread, please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 The shock effect of landing him would be enormous and bring national attention to SLU throughout his one year. That type of publicity alone is priceless. Also, if he brings with him a couple of strong players, they'll be here after he departs. If he generates some serious hometown interest, as Kshoe suggests, it might help in recruiting future St L prep greats. JT has said as much himself. Although, we didn't get that effect from the Legends one and done season. Not sure why as Spoon had the program headed in the right direction pulling in 17k fans a game at Savvis/ now Scott Trade, but we missed on the areas next batch of prep stars, Lee, Beals, Carwell, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Bank the scholarship! If Jayson Tatum said he wanted to play 10 games for SLU and then leave, I'd let him. He is a generational talent and would probably go down as the best Billiken of the modern era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Wow. Taj you are a certified moron. Only you could find a negative spin to possibly landing the #1 recruit in the nation. Just wow. I feel sorry for anyone that has to deal with you on a daily basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Scratch my original thought. If Jayson Tatum said that he wanted to take a dump at half court before every game and wanted the President to clean it up, I'd expect Fred to go out there with his dustpan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 He's pretty much a guaranteed one-year fix and his impact could be long term if he brings some good players with him and/or we get some serious national attention. At the very least he'll help us regain some, if not all, of the momentum that we lost this year and next year. It'll give us another chance to build on that and become a consistent program which is really all I want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Tatum coming to SLU tells other future St. Louis stars that they also can stay at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Scratch my original thought. If Jayson Tatum said that he wanted to take a dump at half court before every game and wanted the President to clean it up, I'd expect Fred to go out there with his dustpan. With a smile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Scratch my original thought. If Jayson Tatum said that he wanted to take a dump at half court before every game and wanted the President of SLU to clean it up, I'd expect Fred to go out there with his dustpan. Fixed, but I was thinking POTUS not POSLU. Great post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Maybe MR can get POTUS to call JT and suggest SLUs his best option. If MR played for UK, you can bet Calipari would do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillinthemost Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 This is literally the dumbest thread ever here. And there have been plenty of moronic threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 It is also my opinion that this program didn't really know how to recover from a one-and-done player like FBLH. We are not Duke. We are not Kentucky. The players that came in with Hughes -- Baniak, Heinrich. Tatum and Redden --- all regressed without him there to lead (except maybe Redden who started with such a low ceiling). Collectively, because of the first-year results, the expectations for that group left behind in FBLH's wake was never achieved. FBLH made everyone better so when he left, their stock depreciated as well only we never saw that coming (at least I didn't). None of the ancillary players rumored to want to come play with FBLH ever came true. Pete Mickeal went to Cincinnati. Quentin Richardson went to Depaul. Those are the two I remember most often mentioned. But that was for FBLH Year II -- which never happened. I recall Justin Love signed here to play with FBLH. Wouldn't that have been interesting? Tatum never got to play with Hughes, so it's hard to say he regressed. He might not have even come to SLU if Hughes wasn't here, but even if he still did, it seems weird to assume he would've somehow turned out better if he had never been teammates with Hughes his walk-on year. And Heinrich's best year was his senior year. It's one thing to say getting Hughes for one year didn't advance the SLU program long term. I'd agree with that. But to say he somehow set it back is a pretty bizarre opinion. Even having to start over from scratch after he left, I would take another season like that in a heartbeat. It would be like getting lightning to strike twice. I was young at the time, but that season had a lot to do with me following the Billikens from that point on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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