grunky Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 i knew crews sucked. no one wanted to hear it because we were winning with majerus' players. the chickens come home to roost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 When we play defense we are better but even with a 12 man rotation these players play as if they were exhausted on offense. You would think they would be pumped to make 2-4 points instead sometimes our bigs look like they are guarding their opponents when we are trying to score. I thought it was about getting separation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 There are stretches in games where they play decent D. They just don't sustain it like we've become accustomed to the last 3 years. My guess is the majority of practice time is spent on D, at the expense of O. Most D1 coaches would agree that with FR the biggest challenge is getting/teaching them to buy into the importance of playing good D. McCall Jr. learned this the hard way his SO year, when RM benched him for not buying into D. He finally got it and eventually took minutes from KC. In fact, he turned out to be a really good defender. Our 10-11 squad was offensively challenged as well. Again, probably at the expense of teaching D. D is the basic building block for any D1 team. Look at UK, they are loaded with players, who if they were playing elsewhere might be averaging 20+ ppg, but Calipari stresses D. Why? Because he knows when you get to the dance you'd better come loaded with a lockdown D. Yeah, UK scores a lot but look at that game against UL, it was a defensive struggle all the way. So, while I share everyone's frustration with our seeming lack of any recognizable O scheme, I think it's the result of more time spent teaching D than O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 If we are going to discuss the issues of why we are not winning games, I think physical development is playing a significant part. Bartley, Gillmann, and Reynolds need to gain muscle mass and to gain physical endurance before next season. When you look at them on TV (away games) they look so very young and so skinny compared to the opposing players. They need to gain weight and endurance to be able to play better. So, I think we could analyze the situation this way: the Freshmen bigs need time to develop into their potential, two of our Freshmen guards need to bulk up (and so does Gillmann). Since Grandy is out due to injury, JM is marginal, and TL is on the bench almost full time, we wind up with 6 players with adequate physical development out of the 13 we started the season with. I am not counting Jolly among these 6 because as a big he needs extra time to develop his potential. Out of these 6 remaining players AM has been consistently blocked and largely neutralized by the opposition, and RA (which indeed is quite strong) apparently needs to refine his play in order to satisfy Crews and play longer. So that leaves us with 4 adequately physically developed and capable players in action. Is there any reason we should be winning lots of games given this state of affairs? The team needs time to bulk up and integrate together. We may need to consider replacing some of the non functional players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Pelican Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 If we are going to discuss the issues of why we are not winning games, I think physical development is playing a significant part. Bartley, Gillmann, and Reynolds need to gain muscle mass and to gain physical endurance before next season. When you look at them on TV (away games) they look so very young and so skinny compared to the opposing players. They need to gain weight and endurance to be able to play better. Old Guy, I have to ask. Do those guys only look young and skinny on TV?? Are they bigger and stronger up close and personal at home games? Does TV take off the years and the pounds? I'm truly baffled by this comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 When I go to the games at the Fetz I sit in the nosebleed level and cannot see them close enough or near the opposing players. I can do that much better looking at the TV. So your answer is that they probably look the same way as compared to the opposition whether you watch them on TV or you are close enough to see them in person at the Fetz, but close enough is definitely not the nosebleed section of the arena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Pelican Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Ok, fair enough. I too sit upstairs although relatively low in the upper bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 On the subject of physical development, I watched a little of the VCU and LaSalle game last night. Now VCU, other than a few inside guys, isn't loaded with a lot of muscle guys. I'm sure their lanky kids have great wingspans, which is what Shaka likes to have in Havoc. Their C is a big tough specimen. We don't have anyone like that right now. LaSalle, on the other hand, looked big and strong. I forget the guy's name, Wright?, but man he is body by Marvel comics. And they had a couple of others that are intimidating as well. We've never seemed to have that really bulked/buffed up PF or C type. Yeah, Conk, was a tank, but he really didn't look it. I don't know what RA's build is like, but he doesn't strike me as being the big muscular type we see a lot of in the A10, hence, a big reason we get manhandled on the inside. One of these days I'd like to see us with a couple of guys like this on our roster. I guess this is what the Cook kid is, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I guess this is what the Cook kid is, right? Tyler Cook is a strong kid and can throw down some monster dunks, but he really is not a dominant physical presence at this point. Although there is no reason to believe he can't get there, but he does not utilize his size to just physically overmatch kids very often. He could not handle the length and agility of Tilmon (that kid has NBA written all over him). Based on what I have heard (obviously there is still a lot of time), it does not sounds like our chances of landing Cook are that great. Heard he wanted to get away for school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 On the subject of physical development, I watched a little of the VCU and LaSalle game last night. Now VCU, other than a few inside guys, isn't loaded with a lot of muscle guys. I'm sure their lanky kids have great wingspans, which is what Shaka likes to have in Havoc. Their C is a big tough specimen. We don't have anyone like that right now. LaSalle, on the other hand, looked big and strong. I forget the guy's name, Wright?, but man he is body by Marvel comics. And they had a couple of others that are intimidating as well. We've never seemed to have that really bulked/buffed up PF or C type. Yeah, Conk, was a tank, but he really didn't look it. I don't know what RA's build is like, but he doesn't strike me as being the big muscular type we see a lot of in the A10, hence, a big reason we get manhandled on the inside. One of these days I'd like to see us with a couple of guys like this on our roster. I guess this is what the Cook kid is, right? Although certainly not a 5 or a prototypical 4, DE was a handful and physically abused opponents. A lot of people talk about the Conklin summer, but when it comes to a player transforming his body over a summer, I think DE from his freshman to his sophomore season was the most dramatic I have seen from a SLU player. He came back a beast. Of course, more important than having a bunch of bodybuilders is having guys who can play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I agree with Pistol's concerns. I have been a big fan and supporter of Crews ever since he proved folks wrong by hitting the recruiting trail hard and landing what appeared to be a decent class. However, how bad do we have to be this season before we start to question Crews: look bad against a terrible non-conference schedule; lose to the worst team in the A-10, by a lot; be in danger of coming in last in the conference we won the last two season. Isn't there some line in the sand where we say "We expected this team to be bad, but what the hell?" I'm not saying were there, but if we're not, we're close. My big concerns about this team aren't about being youthful and inexperienced, but more about what I am seeing that I didn't see in past rebuilding years. Players aren't developing or are regressing. How is TL incapable of hitting any shot? Is it on him? Does he not have the desire to improve? I doubt it. Someone's got to help get him straightened out, but it's not happening. I agree with Pistol that Crawford looks better because he is getting more minutes, but I don't see improvement in his game. Remember last year when he was hitting bombs from outside, and we were salivating about what would happen when he had more opportunity to play? Can't someone teach RA to slow down and develop two or three post up moves? His entire inside game appears to be based upon being a little more amped up than his opponent which gets him a shot, but usually results in a miss. Can't someone teach him how to calmly created a basket inside? We also aren't playing defense the way that Majerus, and the seniors last season, used to coach it. It bothered me last year when I heard Crews say that the seniors did most of the coaching about the defensive system they ran, and now this season, I don't even see shadows of the help defense we used to run. Remember when Majerus used to hope that the other team ran a zone, because he could beat it with ease? Was no one on the coaching staff at the time paying attention to how we accomplished this. Now, we get a zone and our guys act like they've never seen such a thing before. I will admit that we have improved in the second half of games against zone defense teams, but shouldn't our guys be prepared for a zone before the start of the game? These are the reasons I'm more concerned about the future now than I was in down years in the recent past. Not our youth, but how our youth is being handled and how, if at all, they are improving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 It almost seems that MY troubles started when the Austin's 3 ball's stopped falling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Remember when Majerus used to hope that the other team ran a zone, because he could beat it with ease? Was no one on the coaching staff at the time paying attention to how we accomplished this. Now, we get a zone and our guys act like they've never seen such a thing before. I will admit that we have improved in the second half of games against zone defense teams, but shouldn't our guys be prepared for a zone before the start of the game? I remember the Sons of Majerus having a lot of trouble with the zone the last two years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 we all are not pleased, we all had hoped for better. but we all do not point fingers at players and coaches and panic. i do not. norman dale wasn't doing so hot for awhile there, either. so i suggest we wonder for now, but hold the cheap shots and ugly banter. maybe the team will come around, jell, and improve. maybe they will not. then, after, say, next year, if we do not see improvement, then, "that's different". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 MB73 panic? No! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Manning will be gone. He's addition by subtraction at this point. I expect Neufeld to be better than him from day 1. The team loses zero key players this offseason, unless there's an unexpected transfer. McBroom also should be buried on the bench. The rest of the core players will have a year of experience under their belts. They will do a lot of lifting, conditioning, and shooting in the offseason. Crews deserves a lot of credit for holding things together after Majerus's passing. The season was really looking like it might go off the rails, but it ended up as one of the best seasons in Billiken history. No doubt he started with a lot of talent, but the 5 seniors improved from their sophomore to senior seasons. He deserves some credit for that too. Stuff like "the players coached themselves" is total nonsense in my opinion. Our major selling point to Tatum should be playing at home in front of friends/family in a familiar place, especially if he already has decided he's staying only 1 year. But I also think we'll have an NCAA tournament caliber team in 16-17 even without him, so he can both stay home and win. He knows that he won't be playing with Manning failing at every rebound, McBroom not passing to him or anyone else, and Yacoubou falling over while dribbling. This season is a total aberration, based on the reasons I said earlier. I expect at least middle of the pack in conference next year. I'll eat crow if I'm wrong. A lot of posters here seem to think that this is a long term trend and we'll be stuck behind Fordham for the near future, which I strongly disagree with. I understand that some people want to stay positive, hope for the best. I get it. I wish I were able to see this team that way. But what's missing is why those who feel we'll be fine moving forward think that way. I've made my points: our freshmen aren't as good as other freshmen, and Crews has not shown an ability to develop anyone. Not pointing fingers, not taking cheap shots, not saying anything other than what I've observed and considered as objectively as possible. I really, really want to be wrong. But I have seen very little that makes me think we'll be much better next season or the season after. Marginal improvement of the current class won't be enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmbilliken Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I remember the Sons of Majerus having a lot of trouble with the zone the last two years...[/quote Definitely. I always wondered why teams didn't play zone against us more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 For those who are saying our guys just need to trust the offensive system, here are some interesting stats: -currently ranked 292nd in adjusted offensive efficiency per Pomeroy -last year with the huge senior class we were ranked 181st in adjusted offensive efficiency (7th in adjusted defensive efficiency) per Pomeroy -the year before with Kwamain and Cody we were ranked 75th in adjusted offensive efficiency (6th in adjusted defensive efficiency) per Pomeroy -in 2012 with Conklin and Majerus on the sidelines we were ranked 39th in adjusted offensive efficiency (11th in adjusted defensive efficiency) per Pomeroy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 illogical to say that we will not be fine, you have no way of knowing we will not be fine. agree that we do not know for sure that we will be fine, either. however, knowledgeable, intelligent fans understand that with 6 fr + 3 lightly seasoned sophs+ 1 jr who missed all last year we are green and have not jelled but will almost certainly improve, and probably be fine. no one really knows. will we hit a run with ncaa bids equal to the majerus based run? unlikely but possible. as it relates to some other teams with freshmen that appear to be further along, i say our specific problem is that the pecking order has not been established. hell, who is ready to play major minutes, who is not? we do not know. no one plays well consistently at all. we had a nut worrying that yarborough would go nba before graduating, so how are we going to replace him? some teams just sort out clearly and then the team can jell, everybody knows their roles. we have not sorted out playing time and roles and it is hurting. at some point this will be established. to boot, we got caught short with young inexperienced bigs, a killer. 3 freshmen bigs, 2 inexperienced soph bigs out of 6 total bigs = bad news since our sr big is a role player. and to say crews has not developed anyone also is not a valid statement, the 6 freshmen are his first true recruits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Agree fully with MB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 we all are not pleased, we all had hoped for better. but we all do not point fingers at players and coaches and panic. i do not. norman dale wasn't doing so hot for awhile there, either. so i suggest we wonder for now, but hold the cheap shots and ugly banter. maybe the team will come around, jell, and improve. maybe they will not. then, after, say, next year, if we do not see improvement, then, "that's different". +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 illogical to say that we will not be fine, you have no way of knowing we will not be fine. agree that we do not know for sure that we will be fine, either. however, knowledgeable, intelligent fans understand that with 6 fr + 3 lightly seasoned sophs+ 1 jr who missed all last year we are green and have not jelled but will almost certainly improve, and probably be fine. no one really knows. will we hit a run with ncaa bids equal to the majerus based run? unlikely but possible. as it relates to some other teams with freshmen that appear to be further along, i say our specific problem is that the pecking order has not been established. hell, who is ready to play major minutes, who is not? we do not know. no one plays well consistently at all. we had a nut worrying that yarborough would go nba before graduating, so how are we going to replace him? some teams just sort out clearly and then the team can jell, everybody knows their roles. we have not sorted out playing time and roles and it is hurting. at some point this will be established. to boot, we got caught short with young inexperienced bigs, a killer. 3 freshmen bigs, 2 inexperienced soph bigs out of 6 total bigs = bad news since our sr big is a role player. and to say crews has not developed anyone also is not a valid statement, the 6 freshmen are his first true recruits. How is it illogical? I've broken out my logic as plainly as possible. I use evidence to support my theory. No one has a way of predicting the future, obviously, but thanks for that reminder. What I do, though, is support my position instead of name calling when I disagree. And how is saying Crews hasn't developed anyone not a valid statement? We have a maximum of four full playing seasons with any given player; Crews is now in his third full season with some of these guys. We see all over the country players making massive leaps between seasons; when their collegiate careers are so short, curves can be steep. I have seen improvement out of literally no one on Crews' watch. Manning, Glaze, McBroom, the whole sophomore class - no one. Based on this fact, why are people so optimistic that the whole freshman class is going to go all Conklin on us and make us that much better next season? Marginal improvement should be expected - i.e. all of our underclassmen playing with another year under their belts - but my point is that based on the fact that other young teams are beating us right now and that Crews has no track record of developing anyone, marginal improvement won't be enough; other young teams that are beating us right now will also have another year of experience. Our program does not exist in a vacuum. Will we win a few more games? We certainly should, but this doesn't look like a Tournament-level program to me for the foreseeable future. Once again, I ask you and the others who disagree: why will this team suddenly "jell" by next season? Why will our marginal improvement be more significant than any other team's? Instead of just saying "No one knows for sure, but this team will be much better," I'm asking you (and others) to give me legitimate reasons to support this. What do you see (in this roster, in Crews, in his staff) that I don't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARon Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I've been reminding myself that going into the season my biggest concern was that the younger kids could pick up the defense and play it at a level close to what we've gotten used to. And while they aren't yet doing it for 40 minutes or in every game, I think there are signs they are getting there. I'd rather see progress there than on the offensive side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 I've been reminding myself that going into the season my biggest concern was that the younger kids could pick up the defense and play it at a level close to what we've gotten used to. And while they aren't yet doing it for 40 minutes or in every game, I think there are signs they are getting there. I'd rather see progress there than on the offensive side. See TheChosenOne's post above. It's eye opening. While I agree that most incoming players are clueless defensively, I also think coaches are taking offense for granted. A lot of these guys are playing more minutes in AAU-style formats than for their HS programs, so they're playing a much different game than most college coaches would want to see at both ends. They're more complete offensive players in some ways, but just as clueless at both ends from an X's and O's standpoint. The offense is in really sorry shape right now. I love how hard they play defense, but we also need points. Someone made a point recently about our screens being weaker than we've seen in years; for as much as Majerus hammered defense, his team knew how to set screens. He spent an exhaustive amount of time in practice on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU_Nick Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 How is it illogical? I've broken out my logic as plainly as possible. I use evidence to support my theory. No one has a way of predicting the future, obviously, but thanks for that reminder. What I do, though, is support my position instead of name calling when I disagree. And how is saying Crews hasn't developed anyone not a valid statement? We have a maximum of four full playing seasons with any given player; Crews is now in his third full season with some of these guys. We see all over the country players making massive leaps between seasons; when their collegiate careers are so short, curves can be steep. I have seen improvement out of literally no one on Crews' watch. Manning, Glaze, McBroom, the whole sophomore class - no one. Based on this fact, why are people so optimistic that the whole freshman class is going to go all Conklin on us and make us that much better next season? Marginal improvement should be expected - i.e. all of our underclassmen playing with another year under their belts - but my point is that based on the fact that other young teams are beating us right now and that Crews has no track record of developing anyone, marginal improvement won't be enough; other young teams that are beating us right now will also have another year of experience. Our program does not exist in a vacuum. Will we win a few more games? We certainly should, but this doesn't look like a Tournament-level program to me for the foreseeable future. Once again, I ask you and the others who disagree: why will this team suddenly "jell" by next season? Why will our marginal improvement be more significant than any other team's? Instead of just saying "No one knows for sure, but this team will be much better," I'm asking you (and others) to give me legitimate reasons to support this. What do you see (in this roster, in Crews, in his staff) that I don't? The initial post has been up for a few days and there has not been one legitimate rebuttal to your well-thought postulation. While I agree with you...I will still attempt to put on the rose-colored glasses.. I think our guards have shown flashes of being very good. Right now, I think our guards are battling tough with some of the best guards in the conference. Roby in particular. Roby really has not been outplayed and has blown by his man multiple times this season. I think Miles has the raw tools along with Bartley but they just need to get physically stronger and stronger with the ball. Ash will provide a steadying force next year as a Senior as well. The problem is the absolute absence of ANYONE in the interior providing impact. Frankly, I think it is in the danger zone territory for program health and something drastic must be done. I would like us to do something really uncharacteristic, which may be viewed as desperate. Find a 5th year grad student who doesnt even need to be talented offensively but just provides muscle. Some 9th man on San Diego St who is 6'9 and can just give this team a semblance of an inside presence. If Crews thinks that next year will be different with Gillman/Jolly as Sophomores and RA as a junior, I think we are in for another sub 15 win season. We need someone to come in (not a freshman) who can try to give some kind of inside presence to this team... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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