Recruiting - 2018 class

[Pistol]

22 hours ago, hoppybeer said:

Thanks for the update Nathan. I'm sure Pistol will update his post once he reads this.

Working on it.

[SLURadioBoy]

Now that Gordon and Thatch have already verballed, is there any word out there about any other 2018 recruits we may be the leaders for? Davis seemed pretty pro-SLU in his interview. 

[gobillsgo]

4 hours ago, SLURadioBoy said:

Now that Gordon and Thatch have already verballed, is there any word out there about any other 2018 recruits we may be the leaders for? Davis seemed pretty pro-SLU in his interview. 

Do we even technically have any more scholarships available? May need to wait until after this year to clear some of that up. 

[SLURadioBoy]

No we don't, gobillsgo. I know a lot of programs go over their scholarship limit and deal with that after the season, so I wasn't sure if we were going to do that or not. Besides verbals aren't binding anyway. I was just wondering if there were any rumors out there about other players we might be the leaders for, although if I was guessing, I would think Watson is a high (if not the top) priority right now. Frank mentioned on his show yesterday that the staff is working hard on him.

 

[Glorydays2013]

On 1/21/2017 at 10:29 PM, NathanVC said:

If you see any other player pages with incorrect star ratings, please let me know and I'll fix them.

Why is Chris Duarte rated as a 4*? He has 4* across the board but ESPN has him as a 3* as well as scout

[Glorydays2013]

7 hours ago, gobillsgo said:

Do we even technically have any more scholarships available? May need to wait until after this year to clear some of that up. 

My guess is Nuefield and Gillman will be gone along with Bishop since his injury would give him a medical redshirt. He has a good enough resume for another decent team. 

1 hour ago, SLURadioBoy said:

No we don't, gobillsgo. I know a lot of programs go over their scholarship limit and deal with that after the season, so I wasn't sure if we were going to do that or not. Besides verbals aren't binding anyway. I was just wondering if there were any rumors out there about other players we might be the leaders for, although if I was guessing, I would think Watson is a high (if not the top) priority right now. Frank mentioned on his show yesterday that the staff is working hard on him.

 

OK so theoretically we get Watson, that would put us at Goodwin, Thatch and Henriquez competing for SG, but then you'll say well they can play point, which would but them in competition with Ty Graves which makes sense if Goodwin is expected to be PG. In all honesty this would all work out if we play without a Center, and have 2 solid rotations, we would be in really good shape in the A10 in 2018, this that would minimize injuries and exhaustion. But for 2019 you would run into problems getting a potential stud, like Goodwin 2.0 since there would be so much competition between Goodwin and Thatch and Watson for PT. If Thatch has proven anything, its that he was criminally underated

[JMM28]

1 hour ago, Glorydays2013 said:

My guess is Nuefield and Gillman will be gone along with Bishop since his injury would give him a medical redshirt. He has a good enough resume for another decent team. 

Bishop having a medical redshirt wouldn't allow him to transfer and not sit a year. If he transferred, he would still have a year of sitting out to do(next season) before he would be a junior in eligibility at his new school. Then he could try for a medical redshirt but would try to be gaining a 6th year of eligibility - 2015-2016 (frosh), 2016-2017(medical/soph),2017-2018 (sit out), 2018-2019 (junior), 2019-2020 (senior). He could TRY for the 6th year, but usually those are only granted if both years were lost because of injury. I recall that they were talking about changing the rules on this, but never saw where it passed.  

[Zink]

3 hours ago, Glorydays2013 said:

My guess is Nuefield and Gillman will be gone along with Bishop since his injury would give him a medical redshirt. He has a good enough resume for another decent team. 

OK so theoretically we get Watson, that would put us at Goodwin, Thatch and Henriquez competing for SG, but then you'll say well they can play point, which would but them in competition with Ty Graves which makes sense if Goodwin is expected to be PG. In all honesty this would all work out if we play without a Center, and have 2 solid rotations, we would be in really good shape in the A10 in 2018, this that would minimize injuries and exhaustion. But for 2019 you would run into problems getting a potential stud, like Goodwin 2.0 since there would be so much competition between Goodwin and Thatch and Watson for PT. If Thatch has proven anything, its that he was criminally underated

You hint at a couple of points that I have been thinking a lot about lately with regard to rotation size and playing time...

There's a good chance that even pretty talented freshmen like Thatch get <10mpg in their first year moving forward. Ford will have to continue recruiting talented guys, but also make sure they have a team oriented mentality as early playing time becomes less certain. Any other 2018 recruits will know that we'll have a solid core of seniors along with guys like Gordon and Goodwin who are going to play as many minutes as they can. 

Most top teams play 7-8 man (>15mpg) rotations, as we did in our tourney years. That means 5-6 scholarship players not seeing much of the floor (this is also why I'd be fine giving his kid a scholarship if he's even just a borderline D1 player). Being part of a winner will help, but Ford's recruiting strategy will have to change somewhat.

I'm certainly looking forward to wondering how good our bench players are, rather than griping about how much they struggle. We will be having different conversations in this new era of Billiken fandom. 

[Glorydays2013]

7 minutes ago, Zink said:

Most top teams play 7-8 man (>15mpg) rotations, as we did in our tourney years. That means 5-6 scholarship players not seeing much of the floor (this is also why I'd be fine giving his kid a scholarship if he's even just a borderline D1 player). Being part of a winner will help, but Ford's recruiting strategy will have to change somewhat.

 

Well Gordon and Goodwin might be 2 and done players, who knows, but I think it is obvious we will see a completely different team next year. Having solid bench players is a great tool to keep our most talented players from having an ego that makes them think they can ever slack off, for example being a top scorer but not getting back on D. Goodwin and French are solid players and I don't see that happening with them. With that being said, we have no problem out recruiting what we have, and Ford might want to get rid of even more players, I wouldn't be surprised if we have 4 more spots next year with one or 2 for 2017 and the rest for the remaining classes for maybe a crazy good transfer

[3star_recruit]

Excellent post, Zink. We've reached the point where Ford no longer has immediate minutes to sell. After 2018, we shouldn't expect anymore top 100 recruits for a couple of years. We'll have to "settle" for mere 3 star recruits in 2019 who are willing to wait their turn.

[For-DaLove]

2 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Excellent post, Zink. We've reached the point where Ford no longer has immediate minutes to sell. After 2018, we shouldn't expect anymore top 100 recruits for a couple of years. We'll have to "settle" for mere 3 star recruits in 2019 who are willing to wait their turn.

I highly doubt that. We'll be losing 2 or 3 starters after the 2018-2019 season. I expect Ford to keep bringing in studs.

[Zink]

4 minutes ago, For-DaLove said:

I highly doubt that. We'll be losing 2 or 3 starters after the 2018-2019 season. I expect Ford to keep bringing in studs.

There will definitely be certain years where playing time will be an easier sell, 2019 being one. I was thinking more along the lines that it will be harder to pull in high end '17 and '18 players if more spots open up. And moving forward, that will likely be the case most years. 

[wgstl]

6 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

 We'll have to "settle" for mere 3 star recruits in 2019 who are willing to wait their turn.

Disagree.  I think we forget that most 4* and up, have a mentality of playing right away, regardless of who's in front of them.  Even if us fans think otherwise. 

[Zink]

1 minute ago, wgstl said:

Disagree.  I think we forget that most 4* and up, have a mentality of playing right away, regardless of who's in front of them.  Even if us fans think otherwise. 

Guys like Goodwin and Gordon (top 75ish) will know they'll get playing time, true. But it will still be a harder sell, all else held equal. 

[HoosierPal]

4 hours ago, Glorydays2013 said:

My guess is Nuefield and Gillman will be gone along with Bishop since his injury would give him a medical redshirt. He has a good enough resume for another decent team. 

OK so theoretically we get Watson, that would put us at Goodwin, Thatch and Henriquez competing for SG, but then you'll say well they can play point, which would but them in competition with Ty Graves which makes sense if Goodwin is expected to be PG. In all honesty this would all work out if we play without a Center, and have 2 solid rotations, we would be in really good shape in the A10 in 2018, this that would minimize injuries and exhaustion. But for 2019 you would run into problems getting a potential stud, like Goodwin 2.0 since there would be so much competition between Goodwin and Thatch and Watson for PT. If Thatch has proven anything, its that he was criminally underated

 

1 hour ago, Zink said:

You hint at a couple of points that I have been thinking a lot about lately with regard to rotation size and playing time...

There's a good chance that even pretty talented freshmen like Thatch get <10mpg in their first year moving forward. Ford will have to continue recruiting talented guys, but also make sure they have a team oriented mentality as early playing time becomes less certain. Any other 2018 recruits will know that we'll have a solid core of seniors along with guys like Gordon and Goodwin who are going to play as many minutes as they can. 

Most top teams play 7-8 man (>15mpg) rotations, as we did in our tourney years. That means 5-6 scholarship players not seeing much of the floor (this is also why I'd be fine giving his kid a scholarship if he's even just a borderline D1 player). Being part of a winner will help, but Ford's recruiting strategy will have to change somewhat.

I'm certainly looking forward to wondering how good our bench players are, rather than griping about how much they struggle. We will be having different conversations in this new era of Billiken fandom. 

Couple of comments. Even though Soderballs unequivocally stated that Bishop is gone, if Jermaine takes a medical hardship for this year, he would still have to sit out next year if he transfers.  That would be 1 1/2 years on the pines.  The next few weeks may clear this issue up.  Don't send Jermaine a Thank You note just yet.

Very few teams play the classical 1-5 positions anymore.  This year we have three guards and two forwards on the floor at most times.  [George Mason played four guards.] There is little difference between a SG and SF.  So your mix for playing time for the 3 guard slots needs to expand, and include Bess, Johnson and Moore, and Bishop for now.  Ford has not promised the PG slot to anyone for 2017/2018.  Coach has described Graves as one of the best shooters in the nation, and he can play both guard positions.    He also said Henriquez is the best passer on the team.  Sounds like he could audition for ball handling duties.

We have seen this year how a short rotation can bite you.  Injuries, fatigue and foul trouble add up to needing 8 to 10 capable players dressed.

[Glorydays2013]

21 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Excellent post, Zink. We've reached the point where Ford no longer has immediate minutes to sell. After 2018, we shouldn't expect anymore top 100 recruits for a couple of years. We'll have to "settle" for mere 3 star recruits in 2019 who are willing to wait their turn.

Well that's when you switch your pitch from playing time, vs a championship or guaranteed NCAA Tourney 

[Zink]

11 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

 

Couple of comments. Even though Soderballs unequivocally stated that Bishop is gone, if Jermaine takes a medical hardship for this year, he would still have to sit out next year if he transfers.  That would be 1 1/2 years on the pines.  The next few weeks may clear this issue up.  Don't send Jermaine a Thank You note just yet.

Very few teams play the classical 1-5 positions anymore.  This year we have three guards and two forwards on the floor at most times.  [George Mason played four guards.] There is little difference between a SG and SF.  So your mix for playing time for the 3 guard slots needs to expand, and include Bess, Johnson and Moore, and Bishop for now.  Ford has not promised the PG slot to anyone for 2017/2018.  Coach has described Graves as one of the best shooters in the nation, and he can play both guard positions.    He also said Henriquez is the best passer on the team.  Sounds like he could audition for ball handling duties.

We have seen this year how a short rotation can bite you.  Injuries, fatigue and foul trouble add up to needing 8 to 10 capable players dressed.

I wholeheartedly agree that having 10 guys who can contribute is a must for any team with Sweet 16/top 25 aspirations. But only 7-9 guys will be expected to play in any given game. I think we have that for the next two years already:

Goodwin, Graves, Henriquez, Bess, French, Foreman, Welmer, Roby, Bishop

Goodwin, Graves, Henriquez, Bess, Gordon, French, Foreman, Welmer, Thatch, Bishop

 

I'd guess that Roby/Thatch/Bishop and even Welmer will be lucky to hit 15mpg if all of the other guys are close to as good as we expect. 

It'll be more difficult to convince top 150 guys like French and Thatch to join based on the promise of playing time with that roster than with our one at present. As Glorydays correctly points out, though, the ones who prioritize playing for a winner should start to find us a more attractive destination. 

[Glorydays2013]

I don't think even Bishop thinks he is in rotation next year or after that. I really don't see bishop needing to be on the team. You are also missing Johnson who could develop and be a great bench player, he would play more than Roby since his spot isnt in contention compared to Johnson being 6'7. 

22 minutes ago, Zink said:

Goodwin, Graves, Henriquez, Bess, French, Foreman, Welmer, Roby, Bishop

Goodwin, Graves, Henriquez, Bess, Gordon, French, Foreman, Welmer, Thatch, Bishop

 

[RiseAndGrind]

6 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

I don't think even Bishop thinks he is in rotation next year or after that. I really don't see bishop needing to be on the team. You are also missing Johnson who could develop and be a great bench player, he would play more than Roby since his spot isnt in contention compared to Johnson being 6'7. 

 

Someone less lazy than me should put together a scholarship chart that we can pin to the top of the board. similar to verbal commits. 

[Pistol]

Just now, RiseAndGrind said:

Someone less lazy than me should put together a scholarship chart that we can pin to the top of the board. similar to verbal commits. 

Save this to your favorites: http://verbalcommits.com/schools/saint-louis

[Glorydays2013]

Also is there any point to having Zeke? We could use his scholarship to give to a transfer for the 2018 season or just for reserves

[HoosierPal]

17 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

I don't think even Bishop thinks he is in rotation next year or after that. I really don't see bishop needing to be on the team. You are also missing Johnson who could develop and be a great bench player, he would play more than Roby since his spot isnt in contention compared to Johnson being 6'7. 

 

A couple of things for your consideration.

Bishop is an 11.6 PPG scorer on a team that is third from the last in scoring.  No one that suits up for the Billikens next season will have a higher PPG collegiate season on their resume.

Day 1, Bishop will be the most experienced PG on the squad. 

I would be surprised if Bishop doesn't think the PG is his spot to lose next season.     

[For-DaLove]

28 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

Also is there any point to having Zeke? We could use his scholarship to give to a transfer for the 2018 season or just for reserves

Your endless speculation over current players is nauseating. There are many reasons to have Zeke on the roster, including not burning bridges locally.

[Quality Is Job 1]

26 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

Also is there any point to having Zeke? We could use his scholarship to give to a transfer for the 2018 season or just for reserves

Well, we've been happy with the local recruiting and the relationships Coach Ford and Coach Tate are establishing, suddenly bringing in four- and five-star (arguably) local recruits -- those who've tended to look elsewhere for 20 years -- so do we want to run off a local player?  If he wants to stay and support his local school, even if it's hard for him to get playing time, then don't run him off.  To do so just provides ammunition for competing recruiters (like Bruce Weber) to sow seeds of doubt in the minds of area 2019 and 2020 prospects.

[Littlebill]

1 minute ago, For-DaLove said:

Your endless speculation over current players is nauseating. There are many reasons to have Zeke on the roster, including not burning bridges locally.

+1