Top 25

[HoyaBilliken]

Folks there might just be a glass ceiling for us. We can settle this argument by simply getting more wins. If we handle VCU away, we possibly break through glass ceiling...

[billiCAN]

This thread is fantastic. I could never have predicted a scenario where people were upset about the Billikens being ranked 10/8. Seriously, a pretty cool thing.

[JettFlight5]

I am happy we stayed in the Top 10. Big psychological effect there, and I am afraid we may not see it again (I am not optimistic about going to VCU).

For those grumbling about Creighton's one point win...Please note we were taken to overtime by George Mason this week.

Your Colonials are right in the center of things.

[Dwayne's_World]

Don't assume we will drop the VCU game so easily, everyone thought we stood no chance at Butler last year but look what happened. Either way I will not be overly upset if we lose that one, but will not be remotely surprised when we win.

[ACE]

Let's not fall into these BC$/Power 6 shills' traps. Re these claims that SLU hasn't played anybody, hasn't beaten anybody in the Non-Conference, hasn't beaten a Top 10, yada, yada, yada ...

Isn't this a chicken and egg thing?

You can't beat them if they won't play you. It takes 2 to tango.

Had SLU won that game against Wichita State, would Wichita State even be in the Top 10? We'd still be hearing the same old rubbish.

There is so much different criteria that the selection committee throws out there that they can use whenever it is convenient. For example, it is it more important to have "big wins" or avoid "bad losses"? Over the last couple of years, we heard how our losses to the likes of Rhode Island, Loyola Marymount and Santa Clara were "bad losses." This year, we have avoided "bad losses" to this point. Shouldn't that be a big plus in our favor when our resume is evaluated come tourney time?

[juniorbill76]

Don't assume we will drop the VCU game so easily, everyone thought we stood no chance at Butler last year but look what happened. Either way I will not be overly upset if we lose that one, but will not be remotely surprised when we win.

I hope the team isn't looking past Duquesne the way many of us are. I doubt they are.

[For-DaLove]

You know times are good when people are complaining about only being ranked 10th in the land. Go Bills

[Bay Area Billiken]

The real question is how much deference will be given to the New Big East on Selection Sunday, in particular if this obvious polling bias will translate into NCAA bids and favorable seedings.

Remember the New Big East bought the Big East name and Madison Square Garden rights for its Tournament from the real successor in interest to the Old Big East, the American, which had schools willing to accept all those Old Big East units/credits that the New Big East forfeited as the purchase price.

As of this morning's RPI, the New Big East has only 3 NCAA teams, 4 Villanova, 7 Creighton, and 50 Xavier. And Xavier, which leaped at the offer to join this league, has played itself lately right onto the NCAA Tournament Bubble, having just been blown out by 22 points at Georgetown. Per a pure following of the RPI, Xavier would have the very last of the 36 NCAA At Large Bids, which also means X would be playing in the de facto NCAA Play In Game in the University of Dayton Arena, of all places. Oh, what sweet irony that is. Even sweeter would be if X is left out of the NCAA altogether and in the NIT. X is trending in the NIT direction.

New Beast teams on the wrong side of the NCAA Bubble are 53 St. John's (although I think the Johnnies are IN), 62 Providence, 64 Georgetown, and 75 Marquette. Marquette likely still must win the Big East Tournament to make the NCAA Tournament. Otherwise the Warriors are NIT bound.

Meanwhile our A10 has 6 NCAA teams per the RPI: 12 RPI SLU, 15 UMass, 25 VCU, 31 George Washington, 38 St. Joseph's, and 47 Richmond. Richmond would be the 4th to last IN, meaning UR would also be in the Play In Game in Dayton. Maybe the NCAA can have Xavier play Richmond in that play in game ... Dayton is on the wrong side of the NCAA Bubble, but still in striking range, with RPI of 57, which would make Dayton the 4th team OUT.

[Bay Area Billiken]

I am happy we stayed in the Top 10. Big psychological effect there, and I am afraid we may not see it again (I am not optimistic about going to VCU).

For those grumbling about Creighton's one point win...Please note we were taken to overtime by George Mason this week.

I'm afraid there's more to that than just an arbitrary weekly ranking of media types ...

And even if the ranking is all there was, then SLU winning at George Mason in OT is just as good of a win as Creighton surviving by 1 point at home against Seton Hall.

[JettFlight5]

You know times are good when people are complaining about only being ranked 10th in the land. Go Bills

It's a new era, and we have found new things to be upset about. I wouldn't mind this one for a long time.

[For-DaLove]

The real question is how much deference will be given to the New Big East on Selection Sunday, in particular if this obvious polling bias will translate into NCAA bids and favorable seedings.

Remember the New Big East bought the Big East name and Madison Square Garden rights for its Tournament from the real successor in interest to the Old Big East, the American, which had schools willing to accept all those Old Big East units/credits that the New Big East forfeited as the purchase price.

As of this morning's RPI, the New Big East has only 3 NCAA teams, 4 Villanova, 7 Creighton, and 50 Xavier. And Xavier, which leaped at the offer to join this league, has played itself lately right onto the NCAA Tournament Bubble, having just been blown out by 22 points at Georgetown. Per a pure following of the RPI, Xavier would have the very last of the 36 NCAA At Large Bids, which also means X would be playing in the de facto NCAA Play In Game in the University of Dayton Arena, of all places. Oh, what sweet irony that is. Even sweeter would be if X is left out of the NCAA altogether and in the NIT. X is trending in the NIT direction.

New Beast teams on the wrong side of the NCAA Bubble are 53 St. John's (although I think the Johnnies are IN), 62 Providence, 64 Georgetown, and 75 Marquette. Marquette likely still must win the Big East Tournament to make the NCAA Tournament. Otherwise the Warriors are NIT bound.

Meanwhile our A10 has 6 NCAA teams per the RPI: 12 RPI SLU, 15 UMass, 25 VCU, 31 George Washington, 38 St. Joseph's, and 47 Richmond. Richmond would be the 4th to last IN, meaning UR would also be in the Play In Game in Dayton. Maybe the NCAA can have Xavier play Richmond in that play in game ... Dayton is on the wrong side of the NCAA Bubble, but still in striking range, with RPI of 57, which would make Dayton the 4th team OUT.

Please tell us where the polling bias is, because I'm not seeing it. Creighton deserves to ranked higher than us. With that said, I would love to face them in the tourney because we would shut them down

[slubillikens43]

Am I the only one that thinks we aren't playing like a top 10 team? Sure we're winning our games, but execution hasn't been the best. We're lucky to be 10th IMO

[hsmith19]

I can't agree with that. A win is a win is a win, and continuing to win close games consistently should be seen as a STRENGTH, not a weakness. Remember three years ago when all the handwringing was over us losing a bunch of close games? This year is the exact opposite, and it's the difference between a great team and a bad one.

I can see arguments for us being anywhere from 7th to 12th in the current top 15. I certainly can't complain about us being behind Villanova and Creighton, but it also wouldn't have surprised me if we'd come in ahead of one or both (which we did in the coaches' poll). Beating VCU at their place should definitely put us in single digits next week, and even give us some wriggle room for staying in the top 10 if we lose at UMass or one of the games in Brooklyn.

[Bay Area Billiken]

Please tell us where the polling bias is, because I'm not seeing it. Creighton deserves to ranked higher than us. With that said, I would love to face them in the tourney because we would shut them down

I disagree. In my opinion SLU should be ranked ahead of Creighton.

But irrespective, I do not think Creighton merited jumping SLU in the AP ranking this week. Creighton did nothing to deserve that jump, and SLU did nothing to deserve being jumped.

If some decision maker is going to start considering margin of victory and style points, first Creighton won at home by 1 point over Seton Hall. Second not considering margin of victory is one of the official reasons the NCAA still uses the RPI over the various other computer rankings.

Plus, we have a head to head common opponent: GW. GW beat Creighton. SLU beat GW. We have another head to head common opponent, St. Joe's that both SLU and CU defeated.

SLU is 25-2 and 12-0 in the A10. SLU's losses are to RPI 5 Wisconsin and RPI 8 Wichita State (which is ranked 2nd nationally in the AP Poll).

Creighton is 23-4, 13-2 in the Big East, with losses to 20 San Diego State, 31 George Washington, 53 St. John's and 62 Providence.

[hsmith19]

Also, even as Wichita State moves up to #2 in the polls, they have sunk closer to us in RPI. They are at 9 now, only .004 ahead of us at 12. Considering their only game is against a godawful Bradley team, we could very easily pass them by next week.

[bonwich]

Beating VCU at their place should definitely put us in single digits next week, and even give us some wriggle room for staying in the top 10 if we lose at UMass or one of the games in Brooklyn.

Stop using that word. We've reached a point where we have the right never to expect it again this year.

[Taj79]

I can see a trip/stumble/fall coming but am reluctant to buy into that hook, line and sinker. I know I said we'd likely finish 14 and 2 at the last projection and I believe that still holds. But I CAN see us going into Richmond and/or Amherst and coming out with a win. Just as easily as I can see us throw a clunker out against Duquesne. I really believe in the senior magic going on here and factor in the idea that we seem to play to the level of our competition. We scooted barely by with two Masons, La Salle, the Dukes, URI, the Bonnies and yet went toe-to-toe in Dayton, against VCU and against GeeDubya. We waxed (as we should have) Richmond and Fordham and we even embarrased the #2 team in the league right now St. Joe's in their HOME palace. This is a special team having a special year.

Count me in the crowd that doesn't really care about 8, 9 or 10 just that we are in that top ten makes me satisifed. The only game that matters once March starts is the last one. Polls don't mean squat in the end --- we all know who the National Champion is in basketball. No debate.

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

I disagree. In my opinion SLU should be ranked ahead of Creighton.

But irrespective, I do not think Creighton merited jumping SLU in the AP ranking this week. Creighton did nothing to deserve that jump, and SLU did nothing to deserve being jumped.

If some decision maker is going to start considering margin of victory and style points, first Creighton won at home by 1 point over Seton Hall. Second not considering margin of victory is one of the official reasons the NCAA still uses the RPI over the various other computer rankings.

Plus, we have a head to head common opponent: GW. GW beat Creighton. SLU beat GW. We have another head to head common opponent, St. Joe's that both SLU and CU defeated.

SLU is 25-2 and 12-0 in the A10. SLU's losses are to RPI 5 Wisconsin and RPI 8 Wichita State (which is ranked 2nd nationally in the AP Poll).

Creighton is 23-4, 13-2 in the Big East, with losses to 20 San Diego State, 31 George Washington, 53 St. John's and 62 Providence.

You sold Backhand.

[slufan13]

It's already been said, but nobody is talking about it, but 8th in the Coaches Poll

[BilliKat]

Stop using that word. We've reached a point where we have the right never to expect it again this year.

Yeah! Love that

[kshoe]

I disagree. In my opinion SLU should be ranked ahead of Creighton.

But irrespective, I do not think Creighton merited jumping SLU in the AP ranking this week. Creighton did nothing to deserve that jump, and SLU did nothing to deserve being jumped.

If some decision maker is going to start considering margin of victory and style points, first Creighton won at home by 1 point over Seton Hall. Second not considering margin of victory is one of the official reasons the NCAA still uses the RPI over the various other computer rankings.

Plus, we have a head to head common opponent: GW. GW beat Creighton. SLU beat GW. We have another head to head common opponent, St. Joe's that both SLU and CU defeated.

SLU is 25-2 and 12-0 in the A10. SLU's losses are to RPI 5 Wisconsin and RPI 8 Wichita State (which is ranked 2nd nationally in the AP Poll).

Creighton is 23-4, 13-2 in the Big East, with losses to 20 San Diego State, 31 George Washington, 53 St. John's and 62 Providence.

You conveniently left out that Creighton has an RPI of 7, whereas ours is 12. A few posts earlier, you criticized the committee for not exclusively using the RPI when it comes to Big East teams.

[Littlebill]

You conveniently left out that Creighton has an RPI of 7, whereas ours is 12. A few posts earlier, you lambasted the committee for not exclusively using the RPI when it comes to Big East teams.

and they're 2-0 against the RPI top five..

[Bay Area Billiken]

You conveniently left out that Creighton has an RPI of 7, whereas ours is 12. A few posts earlier, you criticized the committee for not exclusively using the RPI when it comes to Big East teams.

Let's let Creighton make its arguments for itself, not do it for it, ok? We are plenty up against it as it is. Have you perused any of the Turf Protection posts on the Big East Board?

They've got it all figured out when it comes to SLU. We have no history. We haven't played anyone. And we're destined for massive regression once the eligibility of the Coach Majerus recruits ends. I'm waiting for someone over there to say we are dropping to D-2, D-3 or the NAIA, or dropping Basketball altogether. What this really is is Turf Protection 101 from some elements, sprinkled in with Eastern Seaboard Geography 101 from others, who are concerned about there being too many Midwest teams in the Big East and too many Midwest teams that are winning. Then add to this a claim that the RPI computer is wrong because it is yielding more NCAA Tournament teams to the A10 than to the (New) Big East.

I cited the RPI because based upon its own precedents, the NCAA has closely followed the RPI when selecting the NCAA field and also for seeding, but especially in selecting the NCAA field.

The ratings are a PR popularity contest. But the rankings are very important for that very reason. The AP ranking is the one in the national publications, the one that puts SLU on the ESPN Bottom Line, the one that is cited in places like the Washington Post and New York Post.

The RPI and the AP rankings are 2 very different things.

And I'll add- SLU is ranked 8th in the latest USA Today Coaches Poll, ahead of #9 Villanova, and ahead of #10 Creighton. Bravo!

[JettFlight5]

Let's let Creighton make its arguments for itself, not do it for it, ok? We are plenty up against it as it is. Have you perused any of the Turf Protection posts on the Big East Board?

They've got it all figured out when it comes to SLU. We have no history. We haven't played anyone. And we're destined for massive regression once the eligibility of the Coach Majerus recruits ends. I'm waiting for someone over there to say we are dropping to D-2, D-3 or the NAIA, or dropping Basketball altogether. What this really is is Turf Protection 101 from some elements, sprinkled in with Eastern Seaboard Geography 101 from others, who are concerned about there being too many Midwest teams in the Big East and too many Midwest teams that are winning. Then add to this a claim that the RPI computer is wrong because it is yielding more NCAA Tournament teams to the A10 than to the (New) Big East.

I cited the RPI because based upon its own precedents, the NCAA has closely followed the RPI when selecting the NCAA field and also for seeding, but especially in selecting the NCAA field.

The ratings are a PR popularity contest. But the rankings are very important for that very reason. The AP ranking is the one in the national publications, the one that puts SLU on the ESPN Bottom Line, the one that is cited in places like the Washington Post and New York Post.

The RPI and the AP rankings are 2 very different things.

And I'll add- SLU is ranked 8th in the latest USA Today Coaches Poll, ahead of #9 Villanova, and ahead of #10 Creighton. Bravo!

Yeah, they're big on the history over there. I guess Butler can go to their history and put Gordon Hayward into a game now?

[DD3]

You can go here to take a look at how individual AP voters ranked the teams.

http://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll

It's not easily searchable, but here are the biggest "culprits" in SLU's lack of traction this week and where they ranked SLU in parentheses:

Seth Davis (#11)

Chuck McGill (#11)

Kelly Hines (#11)

Kevin McNamara (#11)

Mark McCarter (#11)

Rick Bozich (#11)

Jeff Farudo (#12)

Joe Julian (#12)

Kevin Brockway (#12)

Kevin Lyttle (#12)

Aaron Brenner (#13)

Scott Wolf (#13)

Andrew Carter (#14)

Brian Howell (#14)

Matt McCoy (#14)

Tom Keegan (#14)

Cecil Hurt (#15)

Ron Morris (#15)

Randy Rosetta (#16)

Soren Petro (#16)

Doug Haller (#17)

John Wilner (#18)

Haller is from the Arizona Republic and Wilner is from San Jose Mercury News. Both western papers that might not follow A-10 games all that much.

Our biggest fans this week? Mike Barber of the Richmond Times-Dispatch had SLU at #4. Chris Dachille of WBAL-TV in Baltimore and Seth Emerson of the Macon (GA) Telegraph had us at #5.