majerus mojo Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Strauss is generally right here, and he pokes at MU just as much, if not more than SLU. I still think the larger issue, or why SLU cannot instantly attract and sustain a consistent local fanbase, is that people in the area, or even those from outside the area, the other Jesuit hotspots, that end up coming to SLU, did not grow up Billiken fans, plan and simple. They are ILL or MIZ fans from the 314, who may have happened to go to SLU. Or they grew up with KU or whatever state/local school they hail from. In my experience only a small, small minority drop those teams and whole-heartedly throw themselves behind the Bills when they come to campus. And I image it's even harder to care when you didn't attend the school. Especially since we've only recently been great. Starting to accept the idea that until we hit multiple Final Fours, a la Butler, we will always be apart of a very small, intimate fanbase of diehards, even if we're in a major city and kicking ass. Also, the newspaper, it really is a dying a industry -- not sure why most of you still waste your time with stltoday.com, aside from Timmerman's articles. Get yourself a twitter account and follow people who only write stuff you want to read, it's really simple -- you'll be a lot happier, and also quit giving that trash site clicks. You might as well be going to Cardinals.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majerus mojo Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 It's the same mentality with pro sports, if I grew up in New England, and then came to school in St. Louis, I'm not swapping all my Sox stuff for Cardinals gear just because they're great every season -- unless I'm a Twins/Mariners, etc. fan, somewhere really pathetic and far away, and then MAYBE you let yourself hop on board for the ride. Most of the schools people grow up rooting for are at least decent on a year-to-year basis. Although I still don't understand those who wouldn't root for their damn alma mater vs. their local school they didn't attend. Taking the safe way out, and are cowards, all of em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Fifth, I haven't yet received any acknowledge or response to my email to the PD, which was professional and fact-based. Are these guys in charge there so arrogant they don't even acknowledge readers who take time to compose this kind of email? I thought I saw Gilbert in the john at halftime yesterday. Maybe he came to see for himself just because of your email. (Although I think 2) is the more likely answer. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Although I still don't understand those who wouldn't root for their damn alma mater vs. their local school they didn't attend. Taking the safe way out, and are cowards, all of em. As I recall, the Cincy kids at SLU were especially guilty of this, rooting for Xavier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 The fact that when you scroll down on the sports page and it says "Mizzou/colleges" really bothers me. I know it's hard to consider mizzou an academic institution but still Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NH Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 As I recall, the Cincy kids at SLU were especially guilty of this, rooting for Xavier. I wore Billiken Blue when they played my school. I think there could be an excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 The fact that when you scroll down on the sports page and it says "Mizzou/colleges" really bothers me. I know it's hard to consider mizzou an academic institution but still This pi$$es me off too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adman Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 From a newsworthy point of view, I get the angst directed towards the PD. However, from the perspective of a business in the newspaper industry, the PD has to be particularly focused on getting the most views (whether digitally or with the paper) it can. Assuming Bernie is correct, and it makes sense, the Cards drive the financial bus for the PD and the Billikens do not generate the same readership/click numbers. I think this, as opposed to any grand conspiracy theory, is the reason for the lack of coverage. However, this is kind of a vicious circle. The PD assumes the Billikens won't generate interest/money so they don't cover them extensively. The lack of coverage only exacerbates the problem for the Bills. It seems to me that the PD's thesis is generally correct. But, there should still be a way to work the Bills into the coverage effectively and more frequently. If done correctly, it seems coverage of the only local and nationally ranked bball team would surpass some of the less interesting/marketable stories the PD promotes. Moy, absolutely right and no argument about P-D's thesis of Cards content driving clicks. But I will say two things (sorry for length. I need editor!): - I am a huge Cardinals fan, generally really loved their coverage. But even I am ignoring the umpteenth story of the decisions on their outfielders, pitching staff, statistical minutiae, etc. It has been covered so many times; they seem to struggle every day to find some slightly different angle to regurgitate the same old same old. There just isn't that much to cover. Wonder if others aren't clicking as well. Perhaps fewer unique visitors clicking and just a smaller group of fanatical users clicking over and over on same old subjects. - Rather than be reactionary and only create content about what currently or historically has driven clicks, the PD should look for ways to generate NEW interest in the sports section with new users - print and online. Why? Growth. There most definitely is interest in the Bills in this town. We know this due to the 16K+ average crowds we drew at Scottrade under Spoonball. No NBA team in one of the largest markets not to have one. Only game in town. The interest is there, just needs to be tapped properly (by SLU Athletic Mktg Dept, too, BTW.) They need new and interesting content. But the biggest reason why? The reinvention of the SLU basketball program is a major story. Hell, we get more and better columnist coverage on it from the national publications than we do from the P-D! Sports Illustrated covering. ESPN online. Fox Sports online. The list goes on and on. Imagine if the Cardinals got better columnist coverage from them than they did the P-D? Hah! So it is a story. The fact that it is a story provides opportunity for the P-D to build readership long term. If I was editor or writer and was sitting on the best three-year run of NCAA Div 1 Mens basketball in St. Louis history, SLU history, perhaps in state of Missouri (can't recall if Mizzou has had,) the University's plan for reinvention of the basketball program now being realized (major investments, Chaifetz, Majerus, Crews, player recruiting, improving budgets, etc) and a real chance for the Bills to go deep this year, I'd be trying to partner with SLU, trying to find multiple angles for story content, try to lay foundation for building long-term readership in the paper/online with current readers and new/casual readers. This is of course a bit of investment from P-D and wouldn't turn into staggering click counts overnight. But they've potentially been handed a story and long term content gift horse. Yet with no NBA team to cover and the next best thing to a 4th major franchise in town to help drive sports readership -- SLU right in front of their nose -- they've largely ignored it other than game stories. We have a number of issues that make it a bit harder: lack of top name teams in our league especially in early part of schedule, weak marketing campaign, the central portal for online discussion (and clicks) is here at billikens.com (not stltoday,) perhaps lack of Athletic Dept PR in creating interesting story ideas and dealing with local media (not sure.) But if SLU successfully maintains and builds upon the reinvention, it is tremendous for the St. Louis metro, for the sports scene in St. Louis, for the writers, the paper. Imagine if/when SLU becomes Gonzaga, the vision I think most of us had, minimum. Our program would be the pride of the city with a rabid fan base - like the Cards, Rams, Blues -- not a sleepy little bball pretender. A Kentucky? Prolly not. But a power. You'd think the PD might imagine it the same way...and see it in their interest to make it happen. Help with buzz to build fan base/attendance, who knows - going out on limb - maybe work behind scenes on Big East entry, build the franchise. The build in readership would take some time. And I don't have the statistics about how much stltoday.com traffic is generated by Sports, but suffice to say it is very high. SLU success would deliver to the PD ready-made content in driving even more readership. With today's "adversarial" journalism mentality where partnering with sports franchises is not "their role" and beneath them, it's a struggle. When you add that the PD sports dept has no SLU grads and the paper's financial struggles, tougher to get them to see the light. But what's good for the goose is good for the gander. It will sell papers and clicks. It is the future. The SLU reinvention story is a story, kids. In days of yore, Burnes and Broeg would have actually led efforts to help create it. They had vision to make things happen. Leaders, not followers. Who do you think worked hard behind scenes to bring NBA Hawks, Blues, to a degree Football Cardinals to town, helping build demand for basketball, the NHL, the NFL - and drive readership - in the city they loved? We became a major league sports city. Their papers' sports departments really grew, too. More demand for content and readership. Remember: before Ben Kerner brought the NBA Hawks to St. Louis in the 50s, we were just a baseball town (with the Bills winning national championship just a few years before.) No NFL. No NHL. No NBA. There is no reason today that the Bills can't become the next big thing. Already well on way. It takes vision, passion, smarts and guts for the PD to want to get involved with SLU. Bernie Miklasz has all of that...plus the gravitas and connections to make it happen in his role as Executive Sports Editor. Carry on the tradition of the double Bs. That's why I'm disappointed he sits on the sidelines, making up weak excuses he's too busy writing his 88th or 99th piece of other content since the start of this Bills season to opine till after Super Bowl. Really? The reinvention story (or simply how well their season is going) doesn't even make his top 100 list? No sale. How in the world did columnists at Sports Illustrated and other national pubs judge it a story but not him in his backyard? Wow. Leaders lead. They create the conversation. His complete silence on Bills is very curious. Shortsighted. Begging so many questions. Yeah, he'll get around to it in a couple weeks, closer to March Madness. Weak. But what's really frustrating? Most of the heaviest lifting has been done by the University, the Board, Mr. Chaifetz, the coaches and the players. He doesn't have to really play a Burnes or Broeg role. It's all teed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 This ###### pi$$es me off too... I thought they had a section reserved for SPUMAC...Crime and Punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 St. Louis Post-Dispatch writer Joe Strauss is discussing the Billikens on twitter: Joe Strauss @JoeStrauss3m SLU played its best game of season last night before a remarkably sedate gathering. Thank goodness for the band. Joe Strauss @JoeStrauss25m Denying reality only perpetuates situation. SLU letting opportunity slip. Unfortunate. 15 years ago UVa., UR owned Richmond. Now, VCU. Joe Strauss @JoeStrauss28m Using Groupon coupons to hike attendance does nothing to substantiate growth of brand. The 314 is more black/gold than blue/white. Joe Strauss @JoeStrauss30m Those pointing to uptick in SLU attendance intentionally miss point re: market penetration. MU still dominates The 314 outside SLU campus. All you will ever get from Strauss are back handed compliments. Of course the crowd was not rocking the house - the game was over in the first 5 minutes. Imagine watching the Super Bowl and the Broncos are ahead by 42 points after the first half - how many people will still stay tuned to it - not many outside of Denver - so should we ascertain that since all these people tuned out that nobody is interested in the Super Bowl? - of course not. What would Strauss have SLU do - not try to get butts in the seats and then have him crab about how SLU does nothing to hype attendance. Someone said it earlier in this thread - if you ignore the Bills then nobody knows what is going on so nobody asks about them therefore nobody cares about them. I understand that the newspaper/reporting business has changed - instead of reporting on the news they now have to report on what a few dedicated customers only want to hear/read. Seems ass backward to me but I guess this is how it is. What still gripes me the most now is that 101.1 does not even recognize us - our flagship station - their words not mine - so I guess we are just doomed to be a prophet not recognized in their own country - we get far more love nationally then locally - once again seems ass backwards but I guess these are the times we live in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Moy, absolutely right and no argument about P-D's thesis of Cards content driving clicks. But I will say two things (sorry for length. I need editor!): - I am a huge Cardinals fan, generally really loved their coverage. But even I am ignoring the umpteenth story of the decisions on their outfielders, pitching staff, statistical minutiae, etc. It has been covered so many times; they seem to struggle every day to find some slightly different angle to regurgitate the same old same old. There just isn't that much to cover. Wonder if others aren't clicking as well. Perhaps fewer unique visitors clicking and just a smaller group of fanatical users clicking over and over on same old subjects. - Rather than be reactionary and only create content about what currently or historically has driven clicks, the PD should look for ways to generate NEW interest in the sports section with new users - print and online. Why? Growth. There most definitely is interest in the Bills in this town. We know this due to the 16K+ average crowds we drew at Scottrade under Spoonball. No NBA team in one of the largest markets not to have one. Only game in town. The interest is there, just needs to be tapped properly (by SLU Athletic Mktg Dept, too, BTW.) They need new and interesting content. But the biggest reason why? The reinvention of the SLU basketball program is a major story. Hell, we get more and better columnist coverage on it from the national publications than we do from the P-D! Sports Illustrated covering. ESPN online. Fox Sports online. The list goes on and on. Imagine if the Cardinals got better columnist coverage from them than they did the P-D? Hah! So it is a story. The fact that it is a story provides opportunity for the P-D to build readership long term. If I was editor or writer and was sitting on the best three-year run of NCAA Div 1 Mens basketball in St. Louis history, SLU history, perhaps in state of Missouri (can't recall if Mizzou has had,) the University's plan for reinvention of the basketball program now being realized (major investments, Chaifetz, Majerus, Crews, player recruiting, improving budgets, etc) and a real chance for the Bills to go deep this year, I'd be trying to partner with SLU, trying to find multiple angles for story content, try to lay foundation for building long-term readership in the paper/online with current readers and new/casual readers. This is of course a bit of investment from P-D and wouldn't turn into staggering click counts overnight. But they've potentially been handed a story and long term content gift horse. Yet with no NBA team to cover and the next best thing to a 4th major franchise in town to help drive sports readership -- SLU right in front of their nose -- they've largely ignored it other than game stories. We have a number of issues that make it a bit harder: lack of top name teams in our league especially in early part of schedule, weak marketing campaign, the central portal for online discussion (and clicks) is here at billikens.com (not stltoday,) perhaps lack of Athletic Dept PR in creating interesting story ideas and dealing with local media (not sure.) But if SLU successfully maintains and builds upon the reinvention, it is tremendous for the St. Louis metro, for the sports scene in St. Louis, for the writers, the paper. Imagine if/when SLU becomes Gonzaga, the vision I think most of us had, minimum. Our program would be the pride of the city with a rabid fan base - like the Cards, Rams, Blues -- not a sleepy little bball pretender. A Kentucky? Prolly not. But a power. You'd think the PD might imagine it the same way...and see it in their interest to make it happen. Help with buzz to build fan base/attendance, who knows - going out on limb - maybe work behind scenes on Big East entry, build the franchise. The build in readership would take some time. And I don't have the statistics about how much stltoday.com traffic is generated by Sports, but suffice to say it is very high. SLU success would deliver to the PD ready-made content in driving even more readership. With today's "adversarial" journalism mentality where partnering with sports franchises is not "their role" and beneath them, it's a struggle. When you add that the PD sports dept has no SLU grads and the paper's financial struggles, tougher to get them to see the light. But what's good for the goose is good for the gander. It will sell papers and clicks. It is the future. The SLU reinvention story is a story, kids. In days of yore, Burnes and Broeg would have actually led efforts to help create it. They had vision to make things happen. Leaders, not followers. Who do you think worked hard behind scenes to bring NBA Hawks, Blues, to a degree Football Cardinals to town, helping build demand for basketball, the NHL, the NFL - and drive readership - in the city they loved? We became a major league sports city. Their papers' sports departments really grew, too. More demand for content and readership. Remember: before Ben Kerner brought the NBA Hawks to St. Louis in the 50s, we were just a baseball town (with the Bills winning national championship just a few years before.) No NFL. No NHL. No NBA. There is no reason today that the Bills can't become the next big thing. Already well on way. It takes vision, passion, smarts and guts for the PD to want to get involved with SLU. Bernie Miklasz has all of that...plus the gravitas and connections to make it happen in his role as Executive Sports Editor. Carry on the tradition of the double Bs. That's why I'm disappointed he sits on the sidelines, making up weak excuses he's too busy writing his 88th or 99th piece of other content since the start of this Bills season to opine till after Super Bowl. Really? The reinvention story (or simply how well their season is going) doesn't even make his top 100 list? No sale. How in the world did columnists at Sports Illustrated and other national pubs judge it a story but not him in his backyard? Wow. Leaders lead. They create the conversation. His complete silence on Bills is very curious. Shortsighted. Begging so many questions. Yeah, he'll get around to it in a couple weeks, closer to March Madness. Weak. But what's really frustrating? Most of the heaviest lifting has been done by the University, the Board, Mr. Chaifetz, the coaches and the players. He doesn't have to really play a Burnes or Broeg role. It's all teed up. Maybe Bernie is still raw about losing his buddy Rick........has he said anything about the Bills this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 I've been beating this drum for a long long time. Why would anyone buy an upper bowl season ticket when they know the marketing department will just run a groupon/living social/daily deal for every single conference game? On the good side, SLU gets 50% of the cost of the deal. Some are as low as 25%. I don't mind it as much for non-con games to get folks in the door, but it is a terrible idea to do it all year. Folks will just wait for the next groupon deal. This issue is what retailers and auto manufactures deal with - do they keep running sales and rebates to move merchandise and cars or do they just hold the line and take their lumps until people realize that no deals are forth coming? None of these have figured it out so why blast SLU for doing the same. I understand your point but something of a little is more than nothing of nothing. We just have to realize that StL is not a basketball town so it is hard to get the casual fan to become one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 If you looked at the front page of STLtoday you wouldn't even know there was a game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adman Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Maybe Bernie is still raw about losing his buddy Rick........has he said anything about the Bills this season? Maybe but I doubt it. Been quite a while since Rick's death. Certainly shouldn't get in way at this point. Other than one or two sentences buried deep in a Saturday column, to my knowledge, he's said nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Maybe Bernie is still raw about losing his buddy Rick........has he said anything about the Bills this season? Yes - 2 Saturdays ago he talked about how the Bills were the best team in both IL and MO and encouraged people to pay attention. It was the second listed note of his. But like was said before college bb is not his deal - it is a side note. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Bernie is the lead sports columnist at the Post. His claim of click counts rings hollow. His job is to drive the conversation not to be a slave to click counts. The other columnist from the Post have just spent an hour and half talking about the Bills on the radio in addition to columns they have wrote about the Bills. Bernie turns out a ton of content at the Post, but hasn't found the time to do one column, Bytes, or Breakfast with Bernie piece about the Bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adman Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Struass is pretty damn good when it comes to giving the Billikens coverage and he is right about the groupon stuff, too. The groupon stuff devalues your brand and generates little income after groupon takes their cut. When you do it for basically every game people will never be willing to pay full price for your product. They will only buy if they get the big discount. Brian, Agree Joe has done decent job with space devoted to Bills in his columns. At least we have that. But Joe is the king of adversarial journalism at the P-D. Rather than help build up a program on its way up, he'd rather tear down. He adds very very little to the sports department in terms of interesting insights. Just another guy to write and hopefully generate clicks -- largely negative. Another outsider with an ax to grind with equally negative opinions of St. Louis, the place he calls home. That's not to say he is wrong about everything. Am I disappointed we didn't have sell-out last night? Sure. Should the fans have been more rabid during last night's game? Maybe. Sure. Should our marketing department be doing better job so that groupon doesn't have to be used? Sure. But you can be negative or positive. I'm a glass half full guy with little use for guys like him. And by the way, he's wrong about there not being a significant support in St. Louis for Bills. We know it's there based on Spoonball era attendance. 4th in NCAA Div 1. It is more function of our own marketing. But now Joe's a marketing expert? Groupon can be very effective if not overused. Used as a sampling device it is tremendously effective. We need people sampling the product and then buying. With lack of compelling marketing campaign -- or much if any support from P-D, I'd rather use Groupon than nothing. When demand picks up and people can't get cheap seats, they'll figure it out and buy. We all do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Moy, absolutely right and no argument about P-D's thesis of Cards content driving clicks. But I will say two things (sorry for length. I need editor!): - I am a huge Cardinals fan... Don't mean to cut your post short, but you are absolutely right. And completely agree that there should be a spot at the table for SLU related content for the reasons you state. Exactly the point I was trying to get across, but you added a lot of pertinent insight. I don't think any of us are asking to replace the Cards, etc., but just provide some of the lesser real estate on the site to the Bills. Take a small economic risk (likely nominal in amount), leverage the current historic run and see if the Bills can generate some traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 It takes vision, passion, smarts and guts for the PD to want to get involved with SLU. Bernie Miklasz has all of that...plus the gravitas and connections to make it happen in his role as Executive Sports Editor. Carry on the tradition of the double Bs. 1. I'm pretty sure Bernie doesn't have any management duties (or title). 2. Why would anyone with vision, passion, smarts and guts end up working at a newspaper, let alone in newspaper management? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Thinking about starting my own newspaper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Thinking about starting my own newspaper Old joke with varying subject: How do you make a small fortune in the newspaper business? Start with a large fortune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 If you sell stock I'm shorting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwayne's_World Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Frankly, it's sad when ESPN gives the Billikens more coverage than the local paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken class of 15 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 SLU wins the National Championship on the same day that Mizzou football gets a recruit. What's the headline in the Post-Dispatch the next morning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwayne's_World Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 SLU wins the National Championship on the same day that Mizzou football gets a recruit. What's the headline in the Post-Dispatch the next morning? The headline would either be a mizzou scandal or a story about one of the rams' draft picks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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