Trouble. Right Here in River City.

[MB73]

We certainly miss our two best outside / "3" shooters, Mitchell and Ellis. Perhaps as we jell, a new shooter will emerge, certainly McCall is capable and another should come around as players settle into their roles.

But let's NOT spew venom on some of the players, that is despicable. I supported Cassity when a lot of dullards on this board called him names. Now, here we go again.

I think the sacrifice and commitment of OUR players should be honored, no cheap shots should be taken; sure some constructive criticism is fine.

But the distasteful, disrespectful mocking of any of these fine young men as it relates to their shooting or their performance on the court is uncalled for... stop it!

[kshoe]

Hmmm... I wonder what exactly that means in the context of our observation of the officials hurting the Bill's ability to play today.

We as fans shouldn't act like the officiating was one sided. It was poor in that the first half was physical with no fouls while the second half was a whistle fest. Either way, we got plenty of calls that went our way (and plenty that went against us). The refs didn't cost us this game.

[doowop]

We certainly miss our two best outside / "3" shooters, Mitchell and Ellis. Perhaps as we jell, a new shooter will emerge, certainly McCaul is capable and another should come around as players settle into their roles.

But let's NOT spew venom on some of the players, that is despicable. I supported Cassity when a lot of dullards on this board called him names. Now, here we go again.

I think the sacrifice and commitment of OUR players should be honored, no cheap shots should be taken; sure some constructive criticism is fine.

But the distasteful, disrespectful mocking of any of these fine young men as it relates to their shooting or their performance on the court is uncalled for... stop it!

Who the heck is McCaul?

[slufanskip]

Well, we have reached the halfway point of the OOC with today's loss to Wichita State. Eight down, seven to go. Here's what I've seen and what I saw today .......

We got nothing outside the four seniors. And what we have there is somewhat limited. Evans is aces, but he can be neutralized because of the shortcomings elsewhere. Is McCall an outside shooter? Because if you believe Doug Gottleib, McCall is a slasher and best off the drive -- not spotting up. No big deal but lets believe it's true. We got trouble then because the lane is Evansland and this is where McCall wants to go. Jett is Jett. Sure, he threw in a late three and I think an even later a deuce, but if we are relying on him as our outside game, we got trouble as noted in the title. Plus, he's a slasher who I've always considered better at the rim --- although he is not doing so much finishing this year as he has in the past. Loe is Loe and he is who he is but he's been nothing but solid so far this year.

The early returns on Glaze having a Conklin summer and being all that much better have evaporated as the talent level of the opponents has risen. As for Manning, while I like what he brings on defense, he seems lost and reluctant on offense. And that's not all on him --- we don't exactly seem to have any plan or knowledge as to how to feed a traditional post player whatsoever. Which seems to be the same for our ability to attack a zone defense. Manning fouled out in 11 minutes today. And when he's in there, he's clogging up Evansland as well. Can anybody make a three and allow freer roaming in Evansland? Our 3FG% coming in today was 31.5%. Today we shoot 26.5%. Our track record is 16%, 42%, 32%, 29%, 47%, 27% and 31%. So against both ranked teams, we get choked up. Not a trait of senioritis.

McBroom will get passing grades but he seems the one most likely to fire an ill-advised shot more times than anyone else. Why wasn't he seen in the second half late today as time wound down? I think Bay Area mentioned an offense-for-defense trade. Because Barnett is adding little to nothing on offense. Sure he did indeed clang a free throw but the airball three to tie seems to summarize things best -- especially under the guise of him as a shooter. Hey, the kid hustles and makes a few steals and grabs some rebounds but Gottleib also said Wichita knew to get the ball to whomever Barnett was covering because, well, he couldn't.

And forget the freshmen contributing at all in anything meaningful. Agbeko got six minutes with one rebound and one assist. Lancona got two minutes and looked horribly out of his element. For as bad some believe Barnett is and has played, Mike Crawford is nowhere near the court so I don't see him as an option there. So they will likely carry the bags for a year and then we'll be discussing new items come next year: instead of five returning "starters" we can talk about five returning "enigmas."

While I am happy to be six and two at this point, today's game demonstrated just how weak we really are. A ten point lead followed by a seven or eight minute scoreless stretch. We went up seven late only to have no clue or real option on where to go from there. The trending arrow is not looking good right now. Good thing we have a few cupcakes coming up. There is a lot of cleaning up to do just so we are competitive in the A10, forget the national rankings for the rest of 2013 and likely beyond. The thrill of having four starters and four seniors back is gone.

I guess we should coast until the next big test --- home against Indiana State. Unless we have trouble at Valpo. Just does not look real good given these two games against top teams. Six point loss or five point loss --- key word is L-O-S-S.

Mike McCall isn't a slasher in fact he's about the opposite as he does not finish his drives well. Not because he can't, but because he rarely takes the contact ala KM and JJ. Mike contorts and turns his body to avoid getting hit which results in him throwing a shot from a bad angle while fading away. It's a shame because he's a pretty damn good free throw shooter and a few extra attempts would be nice. On the other hand, he doesn't have JJ's body or KM's strength ... so would he hold up getting knocked around? I'd like to see him pick his moments better and assert himself more consistently with his outside shot. He'll make a couple and then not shoot another 3 for 20 minutes.

I've been saying the same about feeding the post. We're just not good at it except to DE. I don't know if our guards just aren't confident enough to throw it down or what. JM has been short on his little jump hook. However, when we pass the ball to the wing and JM or even RA a couple of times has their man sealed we need to feed then the ball. It's human nature to quit working as hard to get position when you know in the back of your mind you aren't getting the ball.

Our defense seems to come in spurts so far. There were moments when W. St. couldn't hardly get a shot off and then we'd lose the intensity and they'd go on a run. It has been this way all year. Down the stretch ... How the hell do we let # 31 get his own rebound off a missed drive, it's like he passed it to himself off the backboard and finished on the other side of the rim. Then we get completely lost and unorganized and leave him all alone without anyone within 10 feet? How does that happen? Then a lazy block out on a freethrow by DE allows then to get an easy offensive board in the paint. Sorry DE. but you can't get complacent for 1 second in this type of a game.

It'd help if our bigs were allowed to play D. The new block rule has to be changed, it's altering the game. Who the f..k can be set from the moment a guy picks up his dribble? Also can we do something about the dribble drive with the forearm creating space?

Again there are too many offensive trips where our shot selection is just horrible. I didn't mind the 3 by Jake with about a minute left, his feert were set, he caught and he shot. Nothing wrong with that. However, why are we jacking up a quick 3 with 10 seconds left on the clock? His body was turned and it really looked like he just heaved it up. Stupid, just stupid. Is AM hurt? WTF? ... Jake wasn't covering 31, when Jordair went out MM had him. Jake was frequently on one of their smaller guards 23 or 32. I don't believe he played terrible d on them, but I'd trade a little less d ( IF and from what I see it isn't less D) for AM's offense. Austin has to be more cognizant of the situation though as a habit.

Lastly, haven't we gotten spoiled quick. "How weak we really are"

[AlumniFan]

We as fans shouldn't act like the officiating was one sided. It was poor in that the first half was physical with no fouls while the second half was a whistle fest. Either way, we got plenty of calls that went our way (and plenty that went against us). The refs didn't cost us this game.

agree to disagree. bad calls are not definitively balanced. it is illogical to assume that they always balance out. it is logical to assume that they are often unbalanced and, in a close game, they can impact the outcome.

[Clock_Tower]

Mike McCall isn't a slasher in fact he's about the opposite as he does not finish his drives well. Not because he can't, but because he rarely takes the contact ala KM and JJ. Mike contorts and turns his body to avoid getting hit which results in him throwing a shot from a bad angle while fading away. It's a shame because he's a pretty damn good free throw shooter and a few extra attempts would be nice. On the other hand, he doesn't have JJ's body or KM's strength ... so would he hold up getting knocked around? I'd like to see him pick his moments better and assert himself more consistently with his outside shot. He'll make a couple and then not shoot another 3 for 20 minutes.

I've been saying the same about feeding the post. We're just not good at it except to DE. I don't know if our guards just aren't confident enough to throw it down or what. JM has been short on his little jump hook. However, when we pass the ball to the wing and JM or even RA a couple of times has their man sealed we need to feed then the ball. It's human nature to quit working as hard to get position when you know in the back of your mind you aren't getting the ball.

Our defense seems to come in spurts so far. There were moments when W. St. couldn't hardly get a shot off and then we'd lose the intensity and they'd go on a run. It has been this way all year. Down the stretch ... How the hell do we let # 31 get his own rebound off a missed drive, it's like he passed it to himself off the backboard and finished on the other side of the rim. Then we get completely lost and unorganized and leave him all alone without anyone within 10 feet? How does that happen? Then a lazy block out on a freethrow by DE allows then to get an easy offensive board in the paint. Sorry DE. but you can't get complacent for 1 second in this type of a game.

It'd help if our bigs were allowed to play D. The new block rule has to be changed, it's altering the game. Who the f..k can be set from the moment a guy picks up his dribble? Also can we do something about the dribble drive with the forearm creating space?

Again there are too many offensive trips where our shot selection is just horrible. I didn't mind the 3 by Jake with about a minute left, his feert were set, he caught and he shot. Nothing wrong with that. However, why are we jacking up a quick 3 with 10 seconds left on the clock? His body was turned and it really looked like he just heaved it up. Stupid, just stupid. Is AM hurt? WTF? ... Jake wasn't covering 31, when Jordair went out MM had him. Jake was frequently on one of their smaller guards 23 or 32. I don't believe he played terrible d on them, but I'd trade a little less d ( IF and from what I see it isn't less D) for AM's offense. Austin has to be more cognizant of the situation though as a habit.

Lastly, haven't we gotten spoiled quick. "How weak we really are"

Skip. At the risk of re-opening a prior topic, the reason that JB was in the game during the second half instead of AB was because we needed size with Crew's second half strategy. In short, yes, we miss the Senior leadership/scoring/savvy skills of KM but we have largely replaced him with AB (sure not as good/solid as KM was last year but AB is still young and inexperienced and will continue to improve). Instead, our team sorely misses CE and we have NOT found a way to replace him and get the offense clicking.

CE was not your typical forward (power forward, big…). Instead, he played on the perimeter, drew his defender (a big) to the perimeter and was a threat to shoot even when his shot went cold. This unique style of play not only caused a matchup problem for our opponents but also allowed another non-typical guy (DE) to play and score on the interior (with the space created by CE) even though DE is undersized. On offense, I would say that CE played more as our 3 and that DE played more as our 4. Defensive assignments often were reversed as DE would usually guard the smaller/quicker/perimeter player and CE would usually guard the taller/slower/interior player.

Today's first half was very typical of this year's team. RA started the game at the 4 and did not pose any outside threat. When replaced by GG, same result -- no outside threat. More importantly, WSU's 4 stayed inside and clogged the lane leaving no room for DE even when RL faced up on the perimeter. Such a clogged lane also prevented JJ from taking advantage with easy drives/layups. DE attempted a few shots but was held to 2 points (a fast break dunk) in the first half and was basically a non-factor -- DE is not a guard, he lacks the ability to create a shot, to dribble/drive/penetrate and to shoot from the perimeter. In the second half, Crews completely changed course and had DE play the 4 (with RA, GG and TL sitting the bench) and RL and JM playing the 5 until after both RL and JM fouled out and GG came in to play the 5. By playing the 4 where DE is both comfortable and effective, DE finally got the space he needed. In response, DE contributed with 16 of his 18 points in the second half -- all from the interior or FT line. In turn, Crews then went with JB to provide some additional size to make up for the fact that DE is undersized at the 4 and that RL is a more a Euro-big than your typical interior center.

Our depth this year is actually really deep. We have 10 guys who are good enough to start or play major minutes. At the same time, we need to find the best combinations of 5 players and this task has proven more difficult than it would appear with our 5 returning Seniors. Jim Crews knows this and has been working on it -- the reason why RA started and TL got into the game early. Quite frankly, our success will depend upon our non-Seniors. A lot of development will take place in December and I still believe we will be a different team by early January. By then, I am expecting our 1 and 2 positions to be played by MM, JJ and AB, our 5 to be played by RL and JM, our 4 to be played by DE, RA and GG and that our 3 to be largely dependent upon the hot hand of JB, MC and TL. Of course, there will be times when we go small and play MM, JJ and AB at the same time, there will be times when RA/GG give RL a breather at the 5 and there will be times when we go big with DE, RA and RL playing at the same time but playing JJ, DE and RA/GG at the same time does not appear to be a good combination.

[David King]

Instead, our team sorely misses CE and we have NOT found a way to replace him and get the offense clicking.

I agree. So far, the loss of Cody Ellis is missed more than that of Kwamaim Mitchell.

But the difference in the game was the Bills poor defensive rebounding. Witchita State had far too many second chances.

[slu72]

We may be pressing the panic button a little early here. We've got a relatively easy Dec schedule to get things straightened out. Still, we'll be tested in the ISU and Vandy games. Yes, we needed a W to show the experts we belong w/the best, but as someone pointed out last year we were 5-3 after 8 games. We finished no 16 in the country. Let's hope JC and staff get this all sorted out over the next 7 games, and we end up 13-2 going into Rhody where there's a need for some serious payback. Things needed fixing:

1) how to deal w/a zone D. You just know we're gonna see a lot of it until we demonstrate we can break one.

2) get the rotation set. Last year it was fixed, this year it's a hodgepodge of players.

3.) get the kids and JM some serious minutes. Example, if we get up by 10 early on a Yale get the FR in there, they'll be playing against front line players, although you might not want to do this against an ISU or Vandy. But we should have the confidence in our starters that they could put us back on top of a NCAT&T.

4.) Work, work, and more work.

This season is far from over and when you see posters saying "NIT bound", it's disrespectful to our SRs and the staff. That's not what they're shooting for this season.

[cheeseman]

Well, we have reached the halfway point of the OOC with today's loss to Wichita State. Eight down, seven to go. Here's what I've seen and what I saw today .......

We got nothing outside the four seniors. And what we have there is somewhat limited. Evans is aces, but he can be neutralized because of the shortcomings elsewhere. Is McCall an outside shooter? Because if you believe Doug Gottleib, McCall is a slasher and best off the drive -- not spotting up. No big deal but lets believe it's true. We got trouble then because the lane is Evansland and this is where McCall wants to go. Jett is Jett. Sure, he threw in a late three and I think an even later a deuce, but if we are relying on him as our outside game, we got trouble as noted in the title. Plus, he's a slasher who I've always considered better at the rim --- although he is not doing so much finishing this year as he has in the past. Loe is Loe and he is who he is but he's been nothing but solid so far this year.

The early returns on Glaze having a Conklin summer and being all that much better have evaporated as the talent level of the opponents has risen. As for Manning, while I like what he brings on defense, he seems lost and reluctant on offense. And that's not all on him --- we don't exactly seem to have any plan or knowledge as to how to feed a traditional post player whatsoever. Which seems to be the same for our ability to attack a zone defense. Manning fouled out in 11 minutes today. And when he's in there, he's clogging up Evansland as well. Can anybody make a three and allow freer roaming in Evansland? Our 3FG% coming in today was 31.5%. Today we shoot 26.5%. Our track record is 16%, 42%, 32%, 29%, 47%, 27% and 31%. So against both ranked teams, we get choked up. Not a trait of senioritis.

McBroom will get passing grades but he seems the one most likely to fire an ill-advised shot more times than anyone else. Why wasn't he seen in the second half late today as time wound down? I think Bay Area mentioned an offense-for-defense trade. Because Barnett is adding little to nothing on offense. Sure he did indeed clang a free throw but the airball three to tie seems to summarize things best -- especially under the guise of him as a shooter. Hey, the kid hustles and makes a few steals and grabs some rebounds but Gottleib also said Wichita knew to get the ball to whomever Barnett was covering because, well, he couldn't.

And forget the freshmen contributing at all in anything meaningful. Agbeko got six minutes with one rebound and one assist. Lancona got two minutes and looked horribly out of his element. For as bad some believe Barnett is and has played, Mike Crawford is nowhere near the court so I don't see him as an option there. So they will likely carry the bags for a year and then we'll be discussing new items come next year: instead of five returning "starters" we can talk about five returning "enigmas."

While I am happy to be six and two at this point, today's game demonstrated just how weak we really are. A ten point lead followed by a seven or eight minute scoreless stretch. We went up seven late only to have no clue or real option on where to go from there. The trending arrow is not looking good right now. Good thing we have a few cupcakes coming up. There is a lot of cleaning up to do just so we are competitive in the A10, forget the national rankings for the rest of 2013 and likely beyond. The thrill of having four starters and four seniors back is gone.

I guess we should coast until the next big test --- home against Indiana State. Unless we have trouble at Valpo. Just does not look real good given these two games against top teams. Six point loss or five point loss --- key word is L-O-S-S.

Last year KM was a slasher at times, so with JJ, KM, and MM on the floor DE did not have a problem with his Evansland being clogged up so bad that he could not excel. This is no the problem, it is our lack of scoring consistently from anywhere on the floor. That 7-8 minute stretch of not scoring in the first half - the more I think about it - was the reason we lost . We score just 4 pts during that stretch and we keep the game under control. You can also look a the 4 trips towards the end of the game were we came up with nothing as a key to the loss and they scored wiping out our lead. RLs foul trouble and ultimate fouling out also killed us.

[Billiken Rich]

I (along with the crack team from CBSS) didn't catch the 6 men on the court for WSU but I don't think the game was lopsidedly reffed against us. The last foul against Loe was tough.

We haven't had a go to guy who can score when everything else fails in a while. Last two years we didn't really need a guy like that until the end of the year. We may figure out our offense in the next few games and look like last year and Crews will start looking like a genius again. It appears that this year we could use a guy like that goon from WSU......

[slu72]

When you see a guy like Baker or Decker of UW you have to hope we find a player w/those skill sets. KM was that type. I don't think we have one this year.

[DoctorB]

A few opinions as the sky falls:

1. Baker was exceptional, a really terrific D1 basketball player. Best player we've faced so far this year.

2. WSU is better than we are, right now. I was surprised at how tough they were. Pretty darned impressive (and yet we could shut them down for long periods: a good sign). No shame losing to them, mark my words.

3. Our defense, for long stretches, was very good Sunday; like last year's. not all 40 minutes, but for long stretches: very exciting to see that go up a notch. WSU & UW are regrettable yet completely predictable losses. some similarities in our problem areas; but I do see some intensity on the defense emerging.

4. DE is going to have a very long year, if we do not become a better shooting team. Often 3 guys drop down on him when he gets entry pass. Against UW a few times, I literally saw all 5 guys have a team meeting around DE. This kid is tough, but it will take a toll unless we can get better at shooting.

5. I know this will not go over well with some readers, (and I'm not a masochist either); but here goes: Coach Crews is trying to get this team ready for conference play, and March. Coach JC and his staff see JB every single day in practice. They obviously believe that JB represents a very good bench option, and they are working at getting him ready to fill this void people are talking about. I think sometimes players do a lot of great things in practice and have trouble translating to the final 3 minutes against a team loaded, like WSU. So for now, I am cutting the coaching staff a little slack, and saying: go for it, put out there the guys you believe give us the best chance to win against a given team, on a given day.

repeat: the staff sees theses guys competing every single day, they have a lot more evidence to go on than the readers of this board. so if these minutes in the first month of the season help us get ready for the tournaments, I say go for it: evidently they are going to ride that horse. could be wrong, but I'm at least hoping JB turns it around, because we need him. Looks like the coach believes it too.

[Billboy1]

Baker should foul out of a lot of games if the refs call the game correctly

[almaman]

5. I know this will not go over well with some readers, but here goes: Coach Crews is trying to get this team ready for conference play, and March. Coach JC and his staff see JB every single day in practice. They obviously believe that JB represents a very good bench option, and they are working at getting him ready to fill this void people are talking about. I think sometimes players do a lot of great things in practice and have trouble translating to the final 3 minutes against a team loaded, like WSU. So for now, I am cutting the coaching staff a little slack, and saying: go for it, put out there the guys you believe give us the best chance to win against a given team, on a given day.

repeat: the staff sees theses guys competing every single day, they have a lot more evidence to go on than the readers of this board. so if these minutes in the first month of the season help us get ready for the tournaments, I say go for it: evidently they are going to ride that horse.

This theory is what keeps me from bitching more about not putting MC in in quality situations. I assume if he was lighting up in practice like we've seen in that one 3 minute superman stretch and his HS highlight films he'd be in more. If he is lightning it up or anyone else on bench for that matter, and we aren't using him/them than I am wondering about JC. And as big of a JC booster as I am, I can never understand not calling a TO in those long runs. Right or wrong I think fans and players expect this move and is so expected during sucking streaks that it causes players to continue sucking while waiting for the relief of a time out. Kind of like vibe when pitcher is getting shellacked and manager doesn't have anyone warming up.

[slu72]

If you've ever played hoops at the HS or above level, when a team goes on a run it starts to create a mindset of, damn how do we stop these guys? Then confusion/desperation sets in and the snowball starts rolling downhill. You need a TO if for nothing else than to slow down the opponent for a moment and upset their rhythm. Also, to collect your own thoughts and come back with a plan to stop the run. RM would have called a TO somewhere around when WSU scored their 8th unanswered point. I don't know why JC waits so long. It sometimes makes no sense, but he was slow on the switch last year as well. Agree w/Doc B that the staff knows what's best based on daily practices, but don't they also need to take into account game performance? JB may be burning the nets in practice, but it sure ain't translating to results come game time. I'm not saying MC was the option but AM gave us a better option for a quick 3 than JB.

[Old guy]

I tend to agree with Dr. B. I think we are, in real terms, improving even though we lost the two games with Wisconsin and with WSU. I thought we played reasonably well, not that we could not have played better, and we came close to winning in both games. I do not see our team play as being inferior the Wisconsin or to WSU, we just lost these two games.

As far as coach Crews, I know so little about coaching basketball, that it would be unjustified for me to open my mouth to say anything bad about him. In fact, I like him a lot and expect our results to improve in the rest of the year.

[slufanskip]

Skip. At the risk of re-opening a prior topic, the reason that JB was in the game during the second half instead of AB was because we needed size with Crew's second half strategy. In short, yes, we miss the Senior leadership/scoring/savvy skills of KM but we have largely replaced him with AB (sure not as good/solid as KM was last year but AB is still young and inexperienced and will continue to improve). Instead, our team sorely misses CE and we have NOT found a way to replace him and get the offense clicking.

CE was not your typical forward (power forward, big…). Instead, he played on the perimeter, drew his defender (a big) to the perimeter and was a threat to shoot even when his shot went cold. This unique style of play not only caused a matchup problem for our opponents but also allowed another non-typical guy (DE) to play and score on the interior (with the space created by CE) even though DE is undersized. On offense, I would say that CE played more as our 3 and that DE played more as our 4. Defensive assignments often were reversed as DE would usually guard the smaller/quicker/perimeter player and CE would usually guard the taller/slower/interior player.

Today's first half was very typical of this year's team. RA started the game at the 4 and did not pose any outside threat. When replaced by GG, same result -- no outside threat. More importantly, WSU's 4 stayed inside and clogged the lane leaving no room for DE even when RL faced up on the perimeter. Such a clogged lane also prevented JJ from taking advantage with easy drives/layups. DE attempted a few shots but was held to 2 points (a fast break dunk) in the first half and was basically a non-factor -- DE is not a guard, he lacks the ability to create a shot, to dribble/drive/penetrate and to shoot from the perimeter. In the second half, Crews completely changed course and had DE play the 4 (with RA, GG and TL sitting the bench) and RL and JM playing the 5 until after both RL and JM fouled out and GG came in to play the 5. By playing the 4 where DE is both comfortable and effective, DE finally got the space he needed. In response, DE contributed with 16 of his 18 points in the second half -- all from the interior or FT line. In turn, Crews then went with JB to provide some additional size to make up for the fact that DE is undersized at the 4 and that RL is a more a Euro-big than your typical interior center.

Our depth this year is actually really deep. We have 10 guys who are good enough to start or play major minutes. At the same time, we need to find the best combinations of 5 players and this task has proven more difficult than it would appear with our 5 returning Seniors. Jim Crews knows this and has been working on it -- the reason why RA started and TL got into the game early. Quite frankly, our success will depend upon our non-Seniors. A lot of development will take place in December and I still believe we will be a different team by early January. By then, I am expecting our 1 and 2 positions to be played by MM, JJ and AB, our 5 to be played by RL and JM, our 4 to be played by DE, RA and GG and that our 3 to be largely dependent upon the hot hand of JB, MC and TL. Of course, there will be times when we go small and play MM, JJ and AB at the same time, there will be times when RA/GG give RL a breather at the 5 and there will be times when we go big with DE, RA and RL playing at the same time but playing JJ, DE and RA/GG at the same time does not appear to be a good combination.

I don't have a problem with JB getting minutes, just not almost 30. He's a 15 +/- mpg guy. I even said somewhere else he was 33.3 % from 3 coming into the game. When we needed a 3, though the guy that is our best 3 point shooter to date on the year needs to be in the game even if it's replacing Jordair. Playing JB isn't going to bring a big out anyway. He isn't Cody nor does he play like him. If you run JJ, MM, JB, DE, and RL ... they are just going to put their 2nd big on DE, not JB

Replacing a player off last years team is just a silly concept. We don't have another CE on the roster except TL and He's clearly not ready yet, so trying to figure out how to play like we did when he was on the floor just doesn't make sense. We need to figure out how to play with the team we have which is a pretty good one.

TL as a 3? Hope DE is our 4 at that point. We sure as hell aren't going with RL/JM, GG/RA, and TL at the 3.

[slufanskip]

A few opinions as the sky falls:

1. Baker was exceptional, a really terrific D1 basketball player. Best player we've faced so far this year.

2. WSU is better than we are, right now. I was surprised at how tough they were. Pretty darned impressive (and yet we could shut them down for long periods: a good sign). No shame losing to them, mark my words.

3. Our defense, for long stretches, was very good Sunday; like last year's. not all 40 minutes, but for long stretches: very exciting to see that go up a notch. WSU & UW are regrettable yet completely predictable losses. some similarities in our problem areas; but I do see some intensity on the defense emerging.

4. DE is going to have a very long year, if we do not become a better shooting team. Often 3 guys drop down on him when he gets entry pass. Against UW a few times, I literally saw all 5 guys have a team meeting around DE. This kid is tough, but it will take a toll unless we can get better at shooting.

5. I know this will not go over well with some readers, (and I'm not a masochist either); but here goes: Coach Crews is trying to get this team ready for conference play, and March. Coach JC and his staff see JB every single day in practice. They obviously believe that JB represents a very good bench option, and they are working at getting him ready to fill this void people are talking about. I think sometimes players do a lot of great things in practice and have trouble translating to the final 3 minutes against a team loaded, like WSU. So for now, I am cutting the coaching staff a little slack, and saying: go for it, put out there the guys you believe give us the best chance to win against a given team, on a given day.

repeat: the staff sees theses guys competing every single day, they have a lot more evidence to go on than the readers of this board. so if these minutes in the first month of the season help us get ready for the tournaments, I say go for it: evidently they are going to ride that horse. could be wrong, but I'm at least hoping JB turns it around, because we need him. Looks like the coach believes it too.

JB was averaging 18 mpg coming into yesterday, and I'd guess that's about right. But he got 28 minutes in a game where he was 0-5 from the field and 0-4 from 3. He had 2 boards, and no assists. He had 2 1 vs 1 breaks and may actually be the most uncomfortable looking guard in that situation I've ever seen. He got bailed out by a bad defensive play on 1 and completely botched the other. If you're going to attack the left at least have the ability to finish a f..king layup with your left hand. Then he rushes up a 3 where he's not set or ready to shoot with 10 seconds left on the game clock. He's been serviceable on the year in the right doses. I'm not in the group that claims he's just garbage and the worst D1 player ever. However, his skill set is limited, I don't care how many practices there are or whether I see them or not, JB is who he is and 28 minutes in a game like that was a mistake.

Btw ... you know he's not from Indiana don't you?

[bonwich]

We as fans shouldn't act like the officiating was one sided. It was poor in that the first half was physical with no fouls while the second half was a whistle fest. Either way, we got plenty of calls that went our way (and plenty that went against us). The refs didn't cost us this game.

No, they didn't, but their utter incompetence demonstrably influenced the flow, to wit: That moron failed to call a blatant technical foul on WSU for SIX MEN ON THE COURT. Two shots and the ball -- a potential four-point swing. (At that point, I believe we were actually hitting our free throws.) Plus the emotional impact on the coach and player for executing such an incredibly mindless maneuver.

I do wonder if Bilas or anyone similar has the ability to send game tapes to the NCAA to build a file on those idiots. It would also be enlightening, but will never happen within the opaque college-sports hierarchy, to find out, even indirectly, if officials get reprimanded for that kind of crap.

[moytoy12]

No, they didn't, but their utter incompetence demonstrably influenced the flow, to wit: That moron failed to call a blatant technical foul on WSU for SIX MEN ON THE COURT. Two shots and the ball -- a potential four-point swing. (At that point, I believe we were actually hitting our free throws.) Plus the emotional impact on the coach and player for executing such an incredibly mindless maneuver.

I do wonder if Bilas or anyone similar has the ability to send game tapes to the NCAA to build a file on those idiots. It would also be enlightening, but will never happen within the opaque college-sports hierarchy, to find out, even indirectly, if officials get reprimanded for that kind of crap.

The inconsistency killed me. DE and JB got hacked multiple times on missed lay ups in the 2nd half and no call. On WSU's next possession they call a cheap blocking foul on a WSU baseline drive (loe's 4th or 5th I believe).

WSU's coach is one of the bigger crybabies I have seen.

[kappy96]

Our depth this year is actually really deep. We have 10 guys who are good enough to start or play major minutes. At the same time, we need to find the best combinations of 5 players and this task has proven more difficult than it would appear with our 5 returning Seniors. Jim Crews knows this and has been working on it -- the reason why RA started and TL got into the game early. Quite frankly, our success will depend upon our non-Seniors. A lot of development will take place in December and I still believe we will be a different team by early January. By then, I am expecting our 1 and 2 positions to be played by MM, JJ and AB, our 5 to be played by RL and JM, our 4 to be played by DE, RA and GG and that our 3 to be largely dependent upon the hot hand of JB, MC and TL. Of course, there will be times when we go small and play MM, JJ and AB at the same time, there will be times when RA/GG give RL a breather at the 5 and there will be times when we go big with DE, RA and RL playing at the same time but playing JJ, DE and RA/GG at the same time does not appear to be a good combination.

I agree witht this. IMO Crews, knowing he has a vetern starting line-up is operating with the goal of ensuring we are peaking in conference season and ready for what the post-season brings by finding out what works and doesn't work during the early schedule. That said, it is dissapointing...and frustrating to see us lose two games that quite honestly we've become accustomed to winning and could have and should have won with more consistant play.

[kshoe]

agree to disagree. bad calls are not definitively balanced. it is illogical to assume that they always balance out. it is logical to assume that they are often unbalanced and, in a close game, they can impact the outcome.

Fair enough, that was a logical post.

Now, logically it would seem to me that over a long enough time period like 10 or so years about half the games we would get the benefit of the calls and half the time it would work against us. Yet when you read this message board (and I'm certain other message boards are the same) about 90% of the time fans are screaming about how bad the refs were and how they screwed us. Either we are the most abused team by the refs or fanatics such as yourself aren't properly acknowledging the bad calls that go in our favor. Which seems more likely, that we the most abused team in the history of sports or that the fanatics aren't being objective?

I choose to believe my own eyes when it comes to games like yesterday. There were a lot of bad calls on each side but we benefited from our fair share, particularly in the first 10 minutes of the second half. The refs were not the reason we lost yesterday. Plain and simple.

[slu72]

We lost yesterday because we allowed them way too many 2nd chance baskets, ie they got too many offensive boards. Our poor outside shooting was a negative as well.

[cheeseman]

Skip. At the risk of re-opening a prior topic, the reason that JB was in the game during the second half instead of AB was because we needed size with Crew's second half strategy. In short, yes, we miss the Senior leadership/scoring/savvy skills of KM but we have largely replaced him with AB (sure not as good/solid as KM was last year but AB is still young and inexperienced and will continue to improve). Instead, our team sorely misses CE and we have NOT found a way to replace him and get the offense clicking.

CE was not your typical forward (power forward, big…). Instead, he played on the perimeter, drew his defender (a big) to the perimeter and was a threat to shoot even when his shot went cold. This unique style of play not only caused a matchup problem for our opponents but also allowed another non-typical guy (DE) to play and score on the interior (with the space created by CE) even though DE is undersized. On offense, I would say that CE played more as our 3 and that DE played more as our 4. Defensive assignments often were reversed as DE would usually guard the smaller/quicker/perimeter player and CE would usually guard the taller/slower/interior player.

Today's first half was very typical of this year's team. RA started the game at the 4 and did not pose any outside threat. When replaced by GG, same result -- no outside threat. More importantly, WSU's 4 stayed inside and clogged the lane leaving no room for DE even when RL faced up on the perimeter. Such a clogged lane also prevented JJ from taking advantage with easy drives/layups. DE attempted a few shots but was held to 2 points (a fast break dunk) in the first half and was basically a non-factor -- DE is not a guard, he lacks the ability to create a shot, to dribble/drive/penetrate and to shoot from the perimeter. In the second half, Crews completely changed course and had DE play the 4 (with RA, GG and TL sitting the bench) and RL and JM playing the 5 until after both RL and JM fouled out and GG came in to play the 5. By playing the 4 where DE is both comfortable and effective, DE finally got the space he needed. In response, DE contributed with 16 of his 18 points in the second half -- all from the interior or FT line. In turn, Crews then went with JB to provide some additional size to make up for the fact that DE is undersized at the 4 and that RL is a more a Euro-big than your typical interior center.

Our depth this year is actually really deep. We have 10 guys who are good enough to start or play major minutes. At the same time, we need to find the best combinations of 5 players and this task has proven more difficult than it would appear with our 5 returning Seniors. Jim Crews knows this and has been working on it -- the reason why RA started and TL got into the game early. Quite frankly, our success will depend upon our non-Seniors. A lot of development will take place in December and I still believe we will be a different team by early January. By then, I am expecting our 1 and 2 positions to be played by MM, JJ and AB, our 5 to be played by RL and JM, our 4 to be played by DE, RA and GG and that our 3 to be largely dependent upon the hot hand of JB, MC and TL. Of course, there will be times when we go small and play MM, JJ and AB at the same time, there will be times when RA/GG give RL a breather at the 5 and there will be times when we go big with DE, RA and RL playing at the same time but playing JJ, DE and RA/GG at the same time does not appear to be a good combination.

I assume you mean AM not AB - if he was taking KM role then he should have been in there - KM would have been in there at the end of all games.

[cheeseman]

A few opinions as the sky falls:

1. Baker was exceptional, a really terrific D1 basketball player. Best player we've faced so far this year.

2. WSU is better than we are, right now. I was surprised at how tough they were. Pretty darned impressive (and yet we could shut them down for long periods: a good sign). No shame losing to them, mark my words.

3. Our defense, for long stretches, was very good Sunday; like last year's. not all 40 minutes, but for long stretches: very exciting to see that go up a notch. WSU & UW are regrettable yet completely predictable losses. some similarities in our problem areas; but I do see some intensity on the defense emerging.

4. DE is going to have a very long year, if we do not become a better shooting team. Often 3 guys drop down on him when he gets entry pass. Against UW a few times, I literally saw all 5 guys have a team meeting around DE. This kid is tough, but it will take a toll unless we can get better at shooting.

5. I know this will not go over well with some readers, (and I'm not a masochist either); but here goes: Coach Crews is trying to get this team ready for conference play, and March. Coach JC and his staff see JB every single day in practice. They obviously believe that JB represents a very good bench option, and they are working at getting him ready to fill this void people are talking about. I think sometimes players do a lot of great things in practice and have trouble translating to the final 3 minutes against a team loaded, like WSU. So for now, I am cutting the coaching staff a little slack, and saying: go for it, put out there the guys you believe give us the best chance to win against a given team, on a given day.

repeat: the staff sees theses guys competing every single day, they have a lot more evidence to go on than the readers of this board. so if these minutes in the first month of the season help us get ready for the tournaments, I say go for it: evidently they are going to ride that horse. could be wrong, but I'm at least hoping JB turns it around, because we need him. Looks like the coach believes it too.

The only thing I disagree with you about is JB is not a good bench option but he is probably our only option in JC's eyes. That being said, I would think JC is playing who he thinks is his best/only option - he wants to win also but he will live or die by his decisions.