Recruiting - 2016

[jimbofive]

I'm sorry I brought it up. I just thought of it was another point in Tatum's favor (although not as important as his coaching ability and his relation to a top 10 recruit).

It is probably best to end the discussion now.

NO WAY. not talking about race makes race an issue. if 2/3 of the players are black (probably higher) you have to assume that there's got to be more than a few good coaches in there. SHAFT could probably coach a team now. he's THE BALLS. i would definitely not hire a coach just because he's black. but i would definitely make the assumption that he might have quite a bit to offer from a basketball standpoint. and i would also make the assumption that he can probably wrap his di_.ck around a doorknob. but that's me.

[NH]

Dwight Evans player-assistant coach?

[TheChosenOne]

and i would also make the assumption that he can probably wrap his di_.ck around a doorknob

Go on...

[slufanskip]

Tatum interviewed for the SLUH head coaching job, which eventually went to Erwin Claggett. He was very impressive in interviews as a coach and motivator. While there were some concerns about his past, it wasn't enough to put him out of consideration for the SLUH job.

And regarding Frazier, I wouldn't worry about him breaking the rules. The things he could be accused of doing at Maplewood now (bringing in players from outside his district) would certainly be allowed in college. Additionally, he wouldn't be the head coach—there would be oversight within the program. I understand Skip will probably say that someone who displays a willingness to break rules will probably continue to break those rules at a higher level. But I do think some context is necessary in this situation. But I don't think Skip's concern is a silly one.

This type of thinking is problematic. There is a reason there are numerous quotes and sayings by very smart people suggesting you should pay attention to history and past behavior.

I'm curious as to what the "context" is that is neccesary in this situation. Are you saying it may be important to understand the level of cheating and dishonesty, or the excuse for it?

[kappy96]

This thread is just begging for practice to start...

[jimbofive]

Go on...

for all you MBMs... everybody knows, though i've been lax in my representation as of late... that i am a major proponent of MOAR AFFFRIIKKKAANNZZZZZ

[billiken_roy]

You sure about that lack of a degree? I'm virtually certain he got his degree from McKendree and may even have a post graduate degree of some sort.

+1

[NH]

This type of thinking is problematic. There is a reason there are numerous quotes and sayings by very smart people suggesting you should pay attention to history and past behavior.

I'm curious as to what the "context" is that is neccesary in this situation. Are you saying it may be important to understand the level of cheating and dishonesty, or the excuse for it?

I'm saying that breaking a rule is different at the high school and college level and the rules I'm aware of Frazier possibly breaking at the high school level are not that worrisome to me. You may have knowledge of stuff I don't know about.

I also think that there is a HUGE difference between being the head of a public high school program and being an assistant at a D-1 college. If we don't have the type of program that violates many rules, and we don't, then I don't worry about one assistant coming in and changing that culture.

I understand you using possible Frazier violations as a basis to judge his character. And character is certainly a vital piece of information in hiring an assistant coach. Based on what I know, and on the role I would want Frazier to fill, those concerns are not as big to me.

[billiken_roy]

So you think a coach that cheats at the high school level won't at the college level where the pressure to succeed is many times greater? There are no "acceptable" levels of cheating. It is black or white.

(Disclaimer: I personally know nothing about Corey Fraizer cheating. My above statement is a debate about the scenario. However I have stated often in the past when numerous sources are saying such about a coach "usually when there is smoke there is fire.)

[doowop]

Oh, for goodness' sake let's leave this race and color issue out of here. All that really matters is how good they are and how well they do their jobs.

It is relevant. Some coaches may use that against SLU, especially when we're after the same player. Some players parents also looks at the make-up of the staff. Like it or not, race can STILL be an issue.

[slufanskip]

I'm saying that breaking a rule is different at the high school and college level and the rules I'm aware of Frazier possibly breaking at the high school level are not that worrisome to me. You may have knowledge of stuff I don't know about.

I also think that there is a HUGE difference between being the head of a public high school program and being an assistant at a D-1 college. If we don't have the type of program that violates many rules, and we don't, then I don't worry about one assistant coming in and changing that culture.

I understand you using possible Frazier violations as a basis to judge his character. And character is certainly a vital piece of information in hiring an assistant coach. Based on what I know, and on the role I would want Frazier to fill, those concerns are not as big to me.

What traits as a coach does Corey have that would make you believe he could be a good assistant at SLU? .... or why would you want him? You're a smart guy ( and I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically) you must have a reason, something you've seen?

[Old guy]

Doowop, so you are indicating that some of the coaches may be racist bigots and the same goes for some of the parents of players. Let me point out that racism cuts both ways and that we live in an imperfect world that leaves a lot to be desired. However why should institutions of higher education succumb to what is basically ignorance and stupidity? People should be judged by what they are and what they can do. This is not wishful thinking this is truth and basic Catholic theology. There are basically two categories of people: good people and bad people. If the good people (of any race) happen to be competent, why should that be a cause for anything else but respect and satisfaction to be associated with them?

[NH]

What traits as a coach does Corey have that would make you believe he could be a good assistant at SLU? .... or why would you want him? You're a smart guy ( and I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically) you must have a reason, something you've seen?

He's a good recruiter (probably one reason why many are skeptical. He is known as a really good at player development (trains Mclemore, Jordan Barnett, and Jayson Tatum). And whenever I saw his teams play at maplewood I thought the players responded very well to him.

I would not want him as the head coach of my program at this point, goes without saying. But for an assistant spot I think those are very valuable traits.

[Bobby Metzinger]

Doowop, so you are indicating that some of the coaches may be racist bigots and the same goes for some of the parents of players. Let me point out that racism cuts both ways and that we live in an imperfect world that leaves a lot to be desired. However why should institutions of higher education succumb to what is basically ignorance and stupidity? People should be judged by what they are and what they can do. This is not wishful thinking this is truth and basic Catholic theology. There are basically two categories of people: good people and bad people. If the good people (of any race) happen to be competent, why should that be a cause for anything else but respect and satisfaction to be associated with them?

I thought it was people who like Neil Diamond and people who don't...

[Old guy]

I don't personally

[slufanskip]

He's a good recruiter (probably one reason why many are skeptical. He is known as a really good at player development (trains Mclemore, Jordan Barnett, and Jayson Tatum). And whenever I saw his teams play at maplewood I thought the players responded very well to him.

I would not want him as the head coach of my program at this point, goes without saying. But for an assistant spot I think those are very valuable traits.

He is good at the physical and athletic side of training. His WITTS training is very good, I have numerous players that I give shooting lessons to that train with him and I do believe it to be excellent. However, He does almost no fundamental or skill work. Players respond to him a bit out of fear which may not always be a bad thing, however, thoughts of him from numerous players and parents aren't so great. Maybe a bit like Floyd Irons or his old Charleston HS coach McFerrin sp? If he can out athletic you with pressure and turnovers he has success, other than that his teams are lost on the floor. Little ball movement and very poor shot selection. Plus, like I said, I'd be very leery of a guy that knows the rules and blatantly says FU to them. I'm not talking a little rule here and there.

[doowop]

Doowop, so you are indicating that some of the coaches may be racist bigots and the same goes for some of the parents of players. Let me point out that racism cuts both ways and that we live in an imperfect world that leaves a lot to be desired. However why should institutions of higher education succumb to what is basically ignorance and stupidity? People should be judged by what they are and what they can do. This is not wishful thinking this is truth and basic Catholic theology. There are basically two categories of people: good people and bad people. If the good people (of any race) happen to be competent, why should that be a cause for anything else but respect and satisfaction to be associated with them?

Old Guy, no one should be hired just because of his or her color, whatever the job. I'm just saying race sometimes come into play. Ask Otto Porter or Patrick Ewing. They wanted to play for a black HEAD coach. There are some parents who would not let their kid play for a black coach. That happened right here at SLU. It is not as bad as it used to be because many of the players today don't care about the make-up of a coaching staff. I am not Catholic. I am non-denominational and don't care about Catholic theology. If you don't think race matters you have your head in a hole. It shouldn't matter, but sometimes it does. But we can drop this now.

[Bobby Metzinger]

Old Guy, no one should be hired just because of his or her color, whatever the job. I'm just saying race sometimes come into play. Ask Otto Porter or Patrick Ewing. They wanted to play for a black HEAD coach. There are some parents who would not let their kid play for a black coach. That happened right here at SLU. It is not as bad as it used to be because many of the players today don't care about the make-up of a coaching staff. I am not Catholic. I am non-denominational and don't care about Catholic theology. If you don't think race matters you have your head in a hole. It shouldn't matter, but sometimes it does. But we can drop this now.

Is that documented by a major publication like the NY Times or the Washington Post or did that just come from a message board?

[Quality Is Job 1]

Old Guy, no one should be hired just because of his or her color, whatever the job. I'm just saying race sometimes come into play. Ask Otto Porter or Patrick Ewing. They wanted to play for a black HEAD coach. There are some parents who would not let their kid play for a black coach. That happened right here at SLU. It is not as bad as it used to be because many of the players today don't care about the make-up of a coaching staff. I am not Catholic. I am non-denominational and don't care about Catholic theology. If you don't think race matters you have your head in a hole. It shouldn't matter, but sometimes it does. But we can drop this now.

You know of someone who didn't want to play for Ron Coleman or Lorenzo Romar or Shimmy Gray, or did you mean "white coach"?

[doowop]

You know of someone who didn't want to play for Ron Coleman or Lorenzo Romar or Shimmy Gray, or did you mean "white coach"?

Someone's parent did not want his son to play for Ron Coleman. But that was back when things in St. Louis, race wise, were worst than they are now. As for Metz, it did not come from a message board. I did not read message boards when Ewing played and most people close to the Porter situation knew his position on the matter. I'm trying to drop this subject. It's over now. All that matters now is who SLU signs for the next three seasons, regardless of the make-up of the coaching staff.

[Old guy]

Doowop I do not believe this casual exhibition of meaningless racism should be dropped, but I will not pursue it further. I hope you are happy with your non denominational religion which apparently believes in inequality, presumably due to race or color, among people. I frankly cannot imagine what form or religion this may be, or what form of eternal reward it may offer those who believe in it. I truly do not think I have my head in a hole because of the way I see race issues, I think those who think otherwise do.

I am not Catholic. I am non-denominational and don't care about Catholic theology. If you don't think race matters you have your head in a hole.

[jbizzle09]

Well, we are already on page 9 in the 'Recruiting - 2016' thread and there is currently a discussion on how certain members see race and religion. It is currently July 2013. I feel fairly confident that this will pass the 'Recruiting - 2013' thread to be the longest in this board's history if this pace continues.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Old guy, the fact that a person thinks that there are still racial issues to contend with — i.e., "it matters" — doesn't make him racist or mean that he's exhibiting racism.

[Bobby Metzinger]

Doowop/OldGuy 2016.

Now that's the ticket!

[Old guy]

Absurd Bills Fan, understand, Reprimand well taken, issue dropped.