Pistol Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I think the race of the coaches gets way overrated on this board. People get too hung up on that. Recruits care about a few things: -How well those coaches get guys to the next level -How well they feel about the guys on the team, on and off the court -How often that school is on TV -How nice the facilities are (and the campus, and surrounding town, to a lesser degree) -How good his family feels about the situation That's pretty much it. Every kid brings his own 'extras' to the table, but those are the core factors. There are countless examples, past and present, of black kids playing for all-white staffs with whom they have nothing in common. If the basketball relationship works, that's what matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I agree that "how good they are and how well they do their jobs" is all that should matter. The reality is in basketball you are recruiting and then teaching a large number of players from a certain demographic and it would probably help to have at least one guy from that demographic on staff. People relate better to those who are similar (or are perceived to be similar) to them. I know it's called the "Gus Malzahn Rule" in college football... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Corey Frazier has an aversion to rules. Anyone with any real info on the Maplewood program would have to be leery of hiring Corey. Wanna bet we'd be in trouble pretty quick. As far as Tatum goes, I've heard nothing but good things about him. I think players enjoy playing for him, he spoke about teaching his kid the fundamentals that he missed so his kid could reach his full potentiial and his teams do play hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I see what you did there, Roy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Oh, for goodness' sake let's leave this race and color issue out of here. All that really matters is how good they are and how well they do their jobs. Would normally agree, but it is kind of tough to justify an all white staff in a sport where the majority of the players on this level have been black for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Then lets hire lots of black coaches not because they are black but because they are GOOD at what they do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 As far as Tatum goes, I've heard nothing but good things about him. I think players enjoy playing for him, he spoke about teaching his kid the fundamentals that he missed so his kid could reach his full potentiial and his teams do play hard. Now I would definitely do the father son Tatum package deal mainly because I have heard nothing but good about Justin as a coach. Having a local connection would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Reasons? I know that he was somewhat of a trouble maker in college, but he has matured a lot. And he's been a hell of a high school basketball coach. His players at Soldan played as hard as any high school team you'll see. I am curious how so many people on this board know how much he has matured. Soldan would seem to be a good fit for him and what I have seen of his character. His behavior at CBC (granted a number of years ago), SLU, and lack of a degree would be enough to make me question why CBC would hire him, let alone SLU. It will be real interesting to see how things go at CBC. Put me in the camp as being strongly against SLU hiring him. I am sure SLU could find another candidate with local ties and a good relationship with these Chaminade studs that would be a better fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Then lets hire lots of black coaches not because they are black but because they are GOOD at what they do Amen to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I've heard some people say that we already have offered Tatum and Gladson and have floated the idea of adding Cook as a 3-man package deal. Can't confirm, but this has definitely been rumored for months. Does anyone know if Tyler Cook has any offers? The guy is an absolute load for a freshman in high school. It is good to hear he is having some good performances this summer for the Eagles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I am curious how so many people on this board know how much he has matured. Soldan would seem to be a good fit for him and what I have seen of his character. His behavior at CBC (granted a number of years ago) and lack of a degree would be enough to make me question why CBC would hire him, let alone SLU. It will be real interesting to see how things go at CBC. Put me in the camp as being strongly against SLU hiring him. I am sure SLU could find another candidate with local ties and a good relationship with these Chaminade studs that would be a better fit. You sure about that lack of a degree? I'm virtually certain he got his degree from McKendree and may even have a post graduate degree of some sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NH Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Tatum interviewed for the SLUH head coaching job, which eventually went to Erwin Claggett. He was very impressive in interviews as a coach and motivator. While there were some concerns about his past, it wasn't enough to put him out of consideration for the SLUH job. And regarding Frazier, I wouldn't worry about him breaking the rules. The things he could be accused of doing at Maplewood now (bringing in players from outside his district) would certainly be allowed in college. Additionally, he wouldn't be the head coach—there would be oversight within the program. I understand Skip will probably say that someone who displays a willingness to break rules will probably continue to break those rules at a higher level. But I do think some context is necessary in this situation. But I don't think Skip's concern is a silly one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Tatum interviewed for the SLUH head coaching job, which eventually went to Erwin Claggett. He was very impressive in interviews as a coach and motivator. While there were some concerns about his past, it wasn't enough to put him out of consideration for the SLUH job. And regarding Frazier, I wouldn't worry about him breaking the rules. The things he could be accused of doing at Maplewood now (bringing in players from outside his district) would certainly be allowed in college. Additionally, he wouldn't be the head coach—there would be oversight within the program. I understand Skip will probably say that someone who displays a willingness to break rules will probably continue to break those rules at a higher level. But I do think some context is necessary in this situation. But I don't think Skip's concern is a silly one. Exhibit A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Then lets hire lots of black coaches not because they are black but because they are GOOD at what they do We just have to remember that a big part of being a good coach (and any type of leader) is the ability to relate to your players/followers. I mean look at Shaka Dumb. Definitely has some coaching talent and a somehow mostly permissible Nolan Richardson-esque defensive philosophy (OMGHAVOXKCKCXXXX), but the third leg of the tripod as to how he gets talented players in there is that he's a cool black dude. I'd hire a cool black dude that wasn't an Xs and Os liability if I knew he was going to potentially have a great relationship with all the players. And it's not just the black players. Most white players embrace the hip hop mentality now omnipresent in basketball as well. There is a last line of stodgy old bastards that will continue to get players because the kids just know they'll win and get exposure there no matter what. But at the end of the day, and especially on those initial recruiting visits, you want to feel like you could actually kick sh.it with the coaches recruiting you, as opposed to playing for a boss you have absolutely nothing in common with but the bottom line, wins and losses. For some players, of both races (Conklin, Evans come to mind, though I would say a lot of our team is that way), they don't give a sh.it if there's a gotdamn robot coaching the team. You want that W, baby. But for some players (that can eventually be coached into winners at all costs), a bit of swag doesn't hurt at the front door, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 We just have to remember that a big part of being a good coach (and any type of leader) is the ability to relate to your players/followers. I mean look at Shaka Dumb. Definitely has some coaching talent and a somehow mostly permissible Nolan Richardson-esque defensive philosophy (OMGHAVOXKCKCXXXX), but the third leg of the tripod as to how he gets talented players in there is that he's a cool black dude. I'd hire a cool black dude that wasn't an Xs and Os liability if I knew he was going to potentially have a great relationship with all the players. And it's not just the black players. Most white players embrace the hip hop mentality now omnipresent in basketball as well. There is a last line of stodgy old bastards that will continue to get players because the kids just know they'll win and get exposure there no matter what. But at the end of the day, and especially on those initial recruiting visits, you want to feel like you could actually kick sh.it with the coaches recruiting you, as opposed to playing for a boss you have absolutely nothing in common with but the bottom line, wins and losses. For some players, of both races (Conklin, Evans come to mind, though I would say a lot of our team is that way), they don't give a sh.it if there's a gotdamn robot coaching the team. You want that W, baby. But for some players (that can eventually be coached into winners at all costs), a bit of swag doesn't hurt at the front door, that's for sure. Following the VCU coaching tree, Anthony Grant at Alabama is also another fine example. However, Jeff Capel is not. Elitist Dookie mentality and the state of Oklahoma did not mesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 No, it doesn't hurt. And yes, it is a systemic problem in sports as a whole how underrepresented black coaches are, but that's another discussion and not for this board. I wouldn't sweat the makeup of our coaching staff as a competitive disadvantage. That margin is miniscule if it exists at all. Furthermore, why are people still concerned about this despite the fact that this staff is increasing the level of talent of the program, not to mention retaining and developing the talent already there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Tatum interviewed for the SLUH head coaching job, which eventually went to Erwin Claggett. He was very impressive in interviews as a coach and motivator. While there were some concerns about his past, it wasn't enough to put him out of consideration for the SLUH job. And regarding Frazier, I wouldn't worry about him breaking the rules. The things he could be accused of doing at Maplewood now (bringing in players from outside his district) would certainly be allowed in college. Additionally, he wouldn't be the head coach—there would be oversight within the program. I understand Skip will probably say that someone who displays a willingness to break rules will probably continue to break those rules at a higher level. But I do think some context is necessary in this situation. But I don't think Skip's concern is a silly one. Tatum interviewed for the SLUH head coaching job, which eventually went to Erwin Claggett. He was very impressive in interviews as a coach and motivator. While there were some concerns about his past, it wasn't enough to put him out of consideration for the SLUH job. And regarding Frazier, I wouldn't worry about him breaking the rules. The things he could be accused of doing at Maplewood now (bringing in players from outside his district) would certainly be allowed in college. Additionally, he wouldn't be the head coach—there would be oversight within the program. I understand Skip will probably say that someone who displays a willingness to break rules will probably continue to break those rules at a higher level. But I do think some context is necessary in this situation. But I don't think Skip's concern is a silly one. He could be accused of alot more than bringing in players from outside the district and he's just not a good coach despite his record Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 He could be accused of alot more than bringing in players from outside the district and he's just not a good coach despite his record What about a guy like Jamall Walker? He does not appear to have the obvious character flaws of the two already mentioned and has considerable collegiate coaching experience. Plus he has been actively recruiting Tatum and Gladson for the Illini. What about a local kid like Drew Hanlen who is making a name for himself as a shooting instructor working with a number of college players and pros? Seems like an overall great kid and his relationships with a number of pros would make for a great sales pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUBillsFan Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 No, it doesn't hurt. And yes, it is a systemic problem in sports as a whole how underrepresented black coaches are, but that's another discussion and not for this board. I wouldn't sweat the makeup of our coaching staff as a competitive disadvantage. That margin is miniscule if it exists at all. Furthermore, why are people still concerned about this despite the fact that this staff is increasing the level of talent of the program, not to mention retaining and developing the talent already there? I'm sorry I brought it up. I just thought of it was another point in Tatum's favor (although not as important as his coaching ability and his relation to a top 10 recruit). It is probably best to end the discussion now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUBillsFan Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 What about a guy like Jamall Walker? He does not appear to have the obvious character flaws of the two already mentioned and has considerable collegiate coaching experience. Plus he has been actively recruiting Tatum and Gladson for the Illini. The issue is why would Walker leave the Illini AC job for a SLU AC job? SLU already let him go once and I'm sure the Illini pay better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 What about a guy like Jamall Walker? He does not appear to have the obvious character flaws of the two already mentioned and has considerable collegiate coaching experience. Plus he has been actively recruiting Tatum and Gladson for the Illini. I'd be all for Jamall Walker but there's no way we could match what he's making at Illinois. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Then lets hire lots of black coaches not because they are black but because they are GOOD at what they do No one said to we should hire a coach just because they are black. No one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Jimbo, I do not know if you know this or not but the first of the ZULU kings was called Shaka, and the name Shaka means "bee sting." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NH Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 The 2016 recruiting thread is already at this many pages. I expect it to break the Billikens.com record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I'd be all for Jamall Walker but there's no way we could match what he's making at Illinois. That is true, it looks like he made $155k last year. Does anyone have any idea what our assistants are being paid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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