Jim Crews Deserves Some Serious Appreciation

[Billiken Rich]

"Absolutely"????

What if we win our first Conference Regular Season title in years?

What if we get to the Sweet 16 for the first time ever?

What if we finish the season in the Top 25 for the first time in over a decade?

What if we just get to the tournament and tie our best tournament performance?

What makes 0 sense is not waiting and seeing what happens next. Sometimes you're the right guy at the right place at the right time.

Also I was a lil' jealous Crews was bringing in these other Army officers to talk to the team. I know I didn't play basketball but come on coach I'm the biggest Army Officer SLU fan I know. (maybe the only one). Or maybe you're just saving me for the NCAA to give a pep talk. Hit me up I'll make myself available and start prepping a speech that'll have these guys ready to run through a wall.

ONE WORD

RECRUITING!

If Crews can't do it really well, he can't be our head coach........

[slufan13]

I'd rather have the coach who struggles recruiting but can coach up his players than the guy who brings in top talent but loses in the NIT every year. Don't really think Crews is either guy but just saying.

[slufan13]

Another thing I've noticed, BillikenRich really doesn't like Crews

[Billiken Rich]

Another thing I've noticed, BillikenRich really doesn't like Crews

I don't have a problem with him really but the last time we did this it was Brad. Brad was a nice guy, who could coach the players he was given pretty well. I believe he could probably be where Crews is at this point with these kids. He was pretty much a disaster at recruiting though and thus began our descent into mediocrity. Ask yourself, Is he the best man for the job? Is he the best we can do at taking a program to new heights? Can he replace Kwamain and Cody?

It seems pretty obvious to me that the answers are-- 1) No, 2) No, and 3) possibly, but why take the risk?

[ACE]

Let's just see where the season takes us. Anything less than a Sweet 16 and it shouldn't be a conversation.

I have said I think Crews is about as good as we could expect as interim coach. He is not RM, but few are. I think he has done fine under the circumstances. I wish him well and if he wants to continue to coach, hopefully having some success this season will open some doors - either stay on here as an assistant (which I think is unlikely) or maybe get a head coaching job at some place like the Mid-American Conference or the Horizon. When Bryce Drew moves on from Valpo after this year, I think that would be a perfect landing spot for him. He would return to his home state and get the chance to coach Keith Carter again.

[Billiken Rich]

I don't have a problem with him really but the last time we did this it was Brad. Brad was a nice guy, who could coach the players he was given pretty well. I believe he could probably be where Crews is at this point with these kids. He was pretty much a disaster at recruiting though and thus began our descent into mediocrity.

Ask yourself, Is Crews the best man for the job? Is he the best we can do at taking a program to new heights? Can he replace Kwamain and Cody?

It seems pretty obvious to me that the answers are-- 1) No, 2) No, and 3) possibly, but why take the risk?

[UpperdeckKid]

I'd rather have the coach who struggles recruiting but can coach up his players than the guy who brings in top talent but loses in the NIT every year. Don't really think Crews is either guy but just saying.

Then we may as well get Soderberg back

[ACE]

Then we may as well get Soderberg back

Above all else, I really just want a coach who is a "nice guy."

[TheA_Bomb]

Soderberg took a previous year's final 4 team and had a NCAA first round exit to a very high seed. Let's not overstate his on court coaching abilities he was OK.

So let's avoid those comparisons as they aren't fair at this point.

[UpperdeckKid]

Soderberg took a previous year's final 4 team and had a NCAA first round exit to a very high seed. Let's not overstate his on court coaching abilities he was OK.

So let's avoid those comparisons as they aren't fair at this point.

And Crews is a good game coach? Rhode Island?

[jbizzle09]

And Crews is a good game coach? Rhode Island?

New Mexico? Texas A&M? Butler?

[Billiken Rich]

Soderberg took a previous year's final 4 team and had a NCAA first round exit to a very high seed. Let's not overstate his on court coaching abilities he was OK.

So let's avoid those comparisons as they aren't fair at this point.

Brad Went 16-14 and then 19-13 both ending with NIT post season invites in his first two years after Romar left. Pretty good results given what LO left him with. Unfortunately the bottom dropped out after that......

[UpperdeckKid]

New Mexico? Texas A&M? Butler?

I was just pointing out A bomb used one game to disprove sodie as a good game coach. Going into the season we had the most talented SLU roster in my life time, after losing KM I can excuse the SC and UDUB lose to bad luck but after that we are right where we were expected to be minus the RI game not bad coaching at all he is doing a very good job with these kids, but not nearly good enough to forgo bad recruiting.

[ACE]

Brad Went 16-14 and then 19-13 both ending with NIT post season invites in his first two years after Romar left. Pretty good results given what LO left him with. Unfortunately the bottom dropped out after that......

I agree. Sodie benefited his first year because of Perry, who went on an amazing run and carried a team better than any Billiken, NOT named Larry Hughes. The second year, I think Sodie did an excellent job getting that team to the NIT. And you are correct, Romar did not leave Sodie a very talented roster. There was very little depth. I was still a Sodie fan, especially up until he signed Lisch and Liddell. The future looked bright. After that, it went all down hill. Inexcplicably the recruiting had become TERRIBLE over several recruiting cycles. If he could have found a decent point guard and power forward, things may have turned out different. Rather than stick with Sodie, it had become obvious to most reasonable people that a change needed to be made.

[jbizzle09]

I was just pointing out A bomb used one game to disprove sodie as a good game coach. Going into the season we had the most talented SLU roster in my life time, after losing KM I can excuse the SC and UDUB lose to bad luck but after that we are right where we were expected to be minus the RI game not bad coaching at all he is doing a very good job with these kids, but not nearly good enough to forgo bad recruiting.

Actually, I believe A-Bomb was comparing the previous season to Sodie's season with Wisconsin, which is fair to point out. Yes, he points out the one game exit, but Wisconsin did under-perform considering their talent level under Sodie as interim coach.

[Box and Won]

Brad Went 16-14 and then 19-13 both ending with NIT post season invites in his first two years after Romar left. Pretty good results given what LO left him with. Unfortunately the bottom dropped out after that......

I think both of those teams were capable of making the NCAA tournament. Like ACE said, little depth, but pretty good talent.

[Billiken Rich]

I agree. Sodie benefited his first year because of Perry, who went on an amazing run and carried a team better than any Billiken, NOT named Larry Hughes. The second year, I think Sodie did an excellent job getting that team to the NIT. And you are correct, Romar did not leave Sodie a very talented roster. There was very little depth. I was still a Sodie fan, especially up until he signed Lisch and Liddell. The future looked bright. After that, it went all down hill. Inexcplicably the recruiting had become TERRIBLE over several recruiting cycles. If he could have found a decent point guard and power forward, things may have turned out different. Rather than stick with Sodie, it had become obvious to most reasonable people that a change needed to be made.

I agree I think Brad could coach just not recruit

I think both of those teams were capable of making the NCAA tournament. Like ACE said, little depth, but pretty good talent.

I don't remember it that way. We were still in CUSA and 19 wins in CUSA was much tougher than 19 wins in the A10 at that point......

[Box and Won]

I agree I think Brad could coach just not recruit

I don't remember it that way. We were still in CUSA and 19 wins in CUSA was much tougher than 19 wins in the A10 at that point......

I'd have to look, but I seem to remember losing a few very winnable games in his first year, including a loss to Tennessee-Martin at home in the opener. We played ourselves onto the bubble at the end, but who knows what would have happened with some better play at the beginning.

Edit: just looked up the schedule from Brad's first year.

Bad losses - Tennessee-Martin (14-14), K-State (13-17), Houston (8-20), South Florida (15-14), lost by eight at home against Missouri State (17-12).

Then they had the eight-game winning streak to finish the year, followed by a one-point loss against UAB in the second round of the conference tournament.

[ACE]

I'd have to look, but I seem to remember losing a few very winnable games in his first year, including a loss to Tennessee-Martin at home in the opener. We played ourselves onto the bubble at the end, but who knows what would have happened with some better play at the beginning.

Edit: just looked up the schedule from Brad's first year.

Bad losses - Tennessee-Martin (14-14), K-State (13-17), Houston (8-20), South Florida (15-14), lost by eight at home against Missouri State (17-12).

Then they had the eight-game winning streak to finish the year, followed by a one-point loss against UAB in the second round of the conference tournament.

I don't think that team was very talented. It was a case of Marque Perry just taking the team on his back in February and getting on a roll. He was unbelievable. Not only the Louisville game, but it seemed like a few other games he came through in the clutch and single-handedly pulled out some victories. I don't really think that was an NCAA Tournament caliber team. Fischer was a nice second guard, but that team was seriously flawed. A mediocre front court and little depth.

[Pistol]

I thought Soderberg had turned a corner recruiting with that Lisch-Liddell class, with top-level local kids finally signing at SLU. The year before was the Polk-Meyer-Brown-Newbourne class, and although Polk and Newbourne didn't pan out like we thought they would, I'd take Meyer on any other SLU team in history and Brown was a solid, smart player. Liddell was originally part of that class, too, before going to prep school. Then after the Lisch-Liddell year, when I thought Brad may have really turned a corner and solidified the local top-level recruiting pipeline, he started signing lower-division talent.

Let's also not forget the recruiting class he cobbled together in short order after taking the job and losing a bunch of Romar guys, with Drejaj and Ohanon, and then the following year with Bryant, Frericks, and Vouyoukas. Sure, Johnson and Clarke were busts but those other five were legit players (if Reggie and Izik and Tom could only have stayed healthy). Then Brad had the Meyer-Polk class and then followed up the two biggest recruits of his career, Lisch and Liddell, with nothing.

So I don't necessarily agree with "Brad can't recruit," period. He brought in some nice players in his 5 years - or at least the first few, anyway. The problem was he had a couple horrible classes, had too many busts in his decent classes, and believed very strongly that signing kids is a 4-year commitment, even though his peers and the NCAA don't agree. He also didn't win over all of those guys to his system, and when your whole coaching scheme is based on everyone buying in to a very rigidly defined system, that's not going to go well.

[Box and Won]

I don't think that team was very talented. It was a case of Marque Perry just taking the team on his back in February and getting on a roll. He was unbelievable. Not only the Louisville game, but it seemed like a few other games he came through in the clutch and single-handedly pulled out some victories. I don't really think that was an NCAA Tournament caliber team. Fischer was a nice second guard, but that team was seriously flawed. A mediocre front court and little depth.

Marque definitely put that team on his back, but we also had Kenny Brown, Sloan, Fisher, Izik and a decent freshman season from Drejaj. Their RPI was relatively strong at the end of the season, and had they beaten some crappy teams early on, they would have had a good shot at a 20-win season, which might have been enough to put them in that year.

[ACE]

Marque definitely put that team on his back, but we also had Kenny Brown, Sloan, Fisher, Izik and a decent freshman season from Drejaj. Their RPI was relatively strong at the end of the season, and had they beaten some crappy teams early on, they would have had a good shot at a 20-win season, which might have been enough to put them in that year.

You raise some good points. I guess it depends on whether you think that team was more like that crappy team with bad early season losses or the team that went on that late season winning streak. It was a long time ago, but I seem to remember thinking that winning streak just came out of nowhere for a team that didnt't strike me as overly talented. That team got spanked pretty good in the first round of the NIT to Minnesota.

I'm going on a tangent, but noticed the names Izik and Drejaj. Those were two pretty decent late spring pick ups by Sodie. Short-term, I think it helped that there was some recruiting continuity from the Romar regime to Sodie. It also helped that Thorpe stayed on for one year in the transition from Sodie to RM. The recruitment of Wille and Thompson (ugh!) began under Sodie. The fact that there was some continuity from one staff to the other may have helped get them. They both seemed like good signings at the time and we certainly did get some mileage out of Willie. That leads me to thinking about the NEXT staff and some of the handwringing about spring recruiting. IF/WHEN the new coach is named, maybe it would be a good idea to keep a current assistant on board. Tanner Bronson would seem to be the most logical since he figures to have the most upside. His presence could help us land one or two decent spring recruits that we are in contact with right now.

[kshoe]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="jbizzle09" data-cid="342202" data-time="1360612017"><p>

<br />

<br />

Actually, I believe A-Bomb was comparing the previous season to Sodie's season with Wisconsin, which is fair to point out. Yes, he points out the one game exit, but Wisconsin did under-perform considering their talent level under Sodie as interim coach. </p></blockquote>

I believe that Wisconsin team that made the final 4 was an 8/9 seed that made a great run. Sodi's team was an 8/9 seed that lost in the first round. I wouldn't exactly lay claim that sodie took a final four team and turned it into a first round loser. That plays way to much on a handful of games to be fair.

[billiken_roy]

the fall of soderberg recruiting occurred by my opinion when we signed liddell and lisch. at that point it seemed soderberg began going for the higher level recruits and holding out for them too long (same problem romar had here imo recruiting) meanwhile the second level of recruits which he got initially as slu, were then moving on to other schools and then it was too late for soderberg to get that "next level" recruit. that was when he would settle for the horace dixons of the world. the best example of this was the point guard jacob pulley. he was so sure pulley was coming to saint louis university. in hindsight the second he knew huggy bear was involved, he should have realized he had no chance. i guarantee you rickma wouldnt have waited till signing day on pulley.

second, he loved to dream about the big group recruit. he would tell the story of wisconsin bringing in 5 kids early on and convincing them as a group to come to wisconsin. that 5 kids was the final four team that wisconsin had in coach bennett's last year. soderberg was always trying to pull that same coupe. i am pretty sure he made the big play for kramer's aau team the summer before soderberg's last year that exact same way. thompson was the only one that came.

i think he also down the stretch also overestimated the want of incoming players to play with lisch and liddell. while i think kevin lisch and tommie liddell are top 10 billikens over the last 30 years, i dont think they are anything special to the point recruits would just come to play with them like for example if they were the next coming of dwight howard and lebron james. there are plenty of kevin lisch and tommie liddell players across the country every year.

had soderberg been more rickma like in giving early ultimatums and moving on when that offer wasnt grabbed by a recruit, i believe soderberg would have been fine. it is the biggest positive of rickma recruiting over any of our previous coaches imo. i dont necessarily agree with the common belief that rickma had some great talent for recognizing talent. sure he has brought some nice players to slu that we are seeing come to fruition right now, however, rickma had his share of misses.

what rickma did have was the ability to get a lot of potentially good recruits to come and sign early and then as they shook out after arriving at slu, he would do it over again the next year. no denying he built a very nice team that has at least this year and next to run and should yield good results. but to get those recruits to come he made them make the decision early to sign (or not).

[billiken_roy]

You raise some good points. I guess it depends on whether you think that team was more like that crappy team with bad early season losses or the team that went on that late season winning streak. It was a long time ago, but I seem to remember thinking that winning streak just came out of nowhere for a team that didnt't strike me as overly talented. That team got spanked pretty good in the first round of the NIT to Minnesota.

I'm going on a tangent, but noticed the names Izik and Drejaj. Those were two pretty decent late spring pick ups by Sodie. Short-term, I think it helped that there was some recruiting continuity from the Romar regime to Sodie. It also helped that Thorpe stayed on for one year in the transition from Sodie to RM. The recruitment of Wille and Thompson (ugh!) began under Sodie. The fact that there was some continuity from one staff to the other may have helped get them. They both seemed like good signings at the time and we certainly did get some mileage out of Willie. That leads me to thinking about the NEXT staff and some of the handwringing about spring recruiting. IF/WHEN the new coach is named, maybe it would be a good idea to keep a current assistant on board. Tanner Bronson would seem to be the most logical since he figures to have the most upside. His presence could help us land one or two decent spring recruits that we are in contact with right now.

what recruits would that be? i havent heard of any senior or juco sophs that we are close on? i agree we have had some local underclassmen at games.