Attendance

[JettFlight5]

New, on-campus arena with state-of-the-art facilities. Check.

Marquee coach. Check.

Run into the tournament. Check.

Given the circumstances of their times, why would any of those kids on that list ever have given SLU a "sniff"?

We're going in the right direction.

[AlumniFan]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="bonwich" data-cid="334137"><p>(And, on TV, our on-campus arena continues to appear much emptier because of the stubborn resistance to doing something to fill the blue seats.)<br /><br />I do hope this new marketing guy comes in with pockets full of ideas and that the athletic department sees the wisdom in spending a bit more to build up some momentum.</p></blockquote><br/>

By blue seats I assume you mean the ones down close to the court in the first level. If so, I don't know what you can do because most of those are season ticket holders (corporate or individual) so it's not like the school can do something meaningful that I can think. They can't force season ticket holders to come to the games or to give their tickets to someone. I have four seats and there are times when I cannot find anyone to take two of the seats. I wish there was an obvious solution, but I cannot think of it.

Regarding bringing in local players, I agree with Roy that I want the best players available. I would NEVER want to pass over a better player from outside St. Louis just to have a lesser player who is local. That said, getting a David Lee, Bradley Beal, even Nolan Berry would be fine and would certainly help attendance at the margin (i.e. with the people affiliated from that high school), but I don't think it is going to be that big of a deal. I would be no more inclined to see an average player from Parkway West than I would an average player from Central High of Denver. An example was Femi. Great kid, but wouldn't motivate me to buy a ticket.

[billikenblue]

I was involved in the arena process and was steadfast in letting people know that the lack of parking close to the arena was a big mistake--do not underestimate the age of our boosters /fans along with the casual "fan" or walk up who just say it is too difficult in the winter versus the ease of the Scottrade center for them---I think it is a BIG reason for the crowd or lack thereof issue

[bonwich]

By blue seats I assume you mean the ones down close to the court in the first level. If so, I don't know what you can do because most of those are season ticket holders (corporate or individual) so it's not like the school can do something meaningful that I can think. They can't force season ticket holders to come to the games or to give their tickets to someone. I have four seats and there are times when I cannot find anyone to take two of the seats. I wish there was an obvious solution, but I cannot think of it.

Season ticket holders for the Cardinals can resell their seats, and the same mechanism could be installed for the 'Fetz -- but it has appeared that our ticketing mechanisms aren't exactly as state-of-the-art as our facility. Not to mention, we also pretty much know for a fact that some significant number of blue seats aren't sold. The other idea I've put forward in the past was to offer existing season ticket holders "move-down" upgrades -- perhaps for a fee, perhaps as a perk (everyone gets, say, two "move-down" passes good on an as-available basis).

Finally, there's the old-Arena-days trick of the coupon packets, which were sold in those days for 10 coupons for 50 bucks, or something like that, and you could redeem the coupons 48 hours before the game for the best available seats.

None of these, by the way, would have any significant costs associated with them (other than the idea of upgrading our ticketing software, which appears to be 1990s vintage at this point).

[White Pelican]

I was involved in the arena process and was steadfast in letting people know that the lack of parking close to the arena was a big mistake--do not underestimate the age of our boosters /fans along with the casual "fan" or walk up who just say it is too difficult in the winter versus the ease of the Scottrade center for them---I think it is a BIG reason for the crowd or lack thereof issue

I've often wondered about this too. SLU thinks "no problem, we can just use golf carts."

[GOSLU68]

<p></p><blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="billikenblue" data-cid="334227" data-time="1357087952"><p>I was involved in the arena process and was steadfast in letting people know that the lack of parking close to the arena was a big mistake--do not underestimate the age of our boosters /fans along with the casual "fan" or walk up who just say it is too difficult in the winter versus the ease of the Scottrade center for them---I think it is a BIG reason for the crowd or lack thereof issue</p></blockquote><p></p>n

I complained about not having a drop off lane U turn for people with sprained ankles to wheel chairs- was told they worked hard to do what hey could as much of the immediate land wouldn't perk- not trustworthy for much other than growing grass

[GOSLU68]

<p></p><blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="BustedDreams49" data-cid="334220" data-time="1357084219"><p>true roy but that is the chicken/egg dilemma. We have had one really good St. Louis kid stay home, and that was Hughes for brotherly love. Ellis to Notre Dame. Miles to the pros. Beal to Florida. Lee to Florida. Woods to Wake/Arizona. Swopeshire to Louisville. Beischeid to Notre Dame. Suggs to Washington. Carrawell to Duke. McLemore to Kansas. White to Georgetown. Griffey to Illinois. Stipo to Mizzou. The Hansboroughs to UNC/Notre Dame. When St. Louis scores a big one on the national scene, those kids take off to where they believe they have the best chance to be that next Air Jordan. And that is not us.<br><br>Seeing lists like this makes me sick. That's horrible that we've let so many elite talents get away without even getting a sniff. Whatever needs to be done to keep some of these kids home needs to be done. Now.</p></blockquote><p></p>

For many going to college means going away to have an adventure- that is why we should recruit Chicago and Milwaukee-they have kids who can easily get home and who like City School excitement we offer vs the agricultural setting in Big 8 and Big 10

[Duff Man]

the difference between now and spoonball days when we averaged 17k per season is we are no where near the level of media support as spoon had. besides cusamono there is no one that could be considered a cheerleader. bernie would defend rickma, but if you notice, there was no love for saint louis university.

we are going to have to win the conference and go deep in the tourney to win over the fans without media cheerleaders.

College basketball as a whole is not as popular as it was 18 year ago. The regional economy is in far worse shape than it was 18 years ago. Those are far bigger factors in the attendance than the lack of cheerleaders in the local media.

Media support or lack thereof is part of the equation, but there are others out there besides Cusamono who actively promote SLU. BJ Rains for example is firmly on the bandwagon. Tim McKernan is a Mizzou honk, but still keeps SLU in the discussion and generally seems bullish on the potential of SLU basketball.

and I don't care how many local media guys you have in your corner, none of them are going to do you any good when they're not on the air for 3 days leading up to the game (as was the case for New Mexico).

It's unfair to judge interim coach Crews on his media skills, but the man is a boring interview. Majerus may not have had Spoonhour's charisma, but he certainly was able to pull some casual fans in just by going on the air and talking about the upcoming games. Ideally our next coach can 1) recruit 2) develop talent 3) out-game-plan his peers 4) make in-game adjustments and 5) possess a charm that appeals to the local media and casual fans (note: media savvy is the least important of those 5 skills)

Regarding local players...

Of course having a team featuring local talent boosts attendance on some marginal level. This is an undeniable fact. The question is to what degree you factor that into your overall strategy. You don't want to waste scholarships on token locals just to fulfill some sort of quota.

What seems to be overlooked [edit: well, until GOSLU68 raised this point in the previous post] is that many high school students - if given the choice - want to go somewhere else for college. This is human nature.

If you're a highly touted basketball recruit from St Louis, and you have offers from programs with National Championship pedigree, what's it going to take for you to turn down that opportunity and stay in St Louis to play for SLU?

Are you prepared to see SLU turn into a Calipari-style 1-and-done factory that will inevitably go on probation for recruiting violations?

I'm all for recruiting more local players, but the pool of kids who

1) want to stay in St Louis

2) are good enough to fill a role NCAA caliber team

3) can cut it academically at SLU

is not very deep.

[billiken_roy]

While bonwich may be correct in saying there are significant number of unsold dark blue seats, i contend that there are not significantly more than in any of the other areas (except end zone). As alumnifan states what is significantly different with those seats is the number of corporate and big booster "owners" of those seats that just dont use them enough. These season ticket holders (especially the corporate version) are the perfect example of casual fans.

My niece (who couldnt care less about slu) works for monsanto. She says the tickets go unused for games. And if they do get claimed, usually the takers would rather hang in the party booth. I have heard the same about two other corporations.

While i dont like seeing the seats open, i also get pissed at the casual fan that doesnt want to come out to see savanaugh st game but then b!tches they can only buy single game tickets for new mex or temple but see open seats.

Tell you what, we need those corporate/big booster owners. Until those of you not paying for season tickets AND billiken club memberships can cover those shares, deal with it. We can only hope to esculate the program when the athletic dept has the revenue to cover that level

[billiken_roy]

I want to state again that i do not advocate recruiting the local kid just because he is from the metro st louis area. That said, put me in the camp that believes after the top half of our current roster, i am not sure the metro area couldnt match the talent of the rest.

[AlumniFan]

Season ticket holders for the Cardinals can resell their seats, and the same mechanism could be installed for the 'Fetz -- but it has appeared that our ticketing mechanisms aren't exactly as state-of-the-art as our facility. Not to mention, we also pretty much know for a fact that some significant number of blue seats aren't sold. The other idea I've put forward in the past was to offer existing season ticket holders "move-down" upgrades -- perhaps for a fee, perhaps as a perk (everyone gets, say, two "move-down" passes good on an as-available basis).

Finally, there's the old-Arena-days trick of the coupon packets, which were sold in those days for 10 coupons for 50 bucks, or something like that, and you could redeem the coupons 48 hours before the game for the best available seats.

None of these, by the way, would have any significant costs associated with them (other than the idea of upgrading our ticketing software, which appears to be 1990s vintage at this point).

The only problem with this is that a lot of fans, including me, would probably not be that concerned about trying to sell tickets they do not use. Unlike baseball tickets, Billiken tickets are much cheaper and there are only 18 or so games. There is not a big enough economic incentive to go through the trouble of selling them, even if it was through a system provided by the University. If the tickets were a much larger economic commitment, then I would agree 100% with you.

I do go over to the ticket window and try to give my extra two tickets to people (e.g. father with a young son) as they come in as long as they are clearly Billiken fans, but even this is not as easy as it seems.

Bottom line - unless the team is a perennial top 25 type program or has an unusually strong history, I just think that it is tough to fill an arena, at least until conference games. We see the top teams on TV all the time and of course those games are packed, but when I do see a lesser team play on TV, I always notice plenty of empty seats.

I am not debating that it would be better for the University to provide a program for ticket exchange; clearly that would be a good thing. I am just saying that I don't think it would make that big of a difference.

[AlumniFan]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="GOSLU68" data-cid="334232">I complained about not having a drop off lane U turn for people with sprained ankles to wheel chairs- was told they worked hard to do what hey could as much of the immediate land wouldn't perk- not trustworthy for much other than growing grass.</blockquote>

They should do this for people using the back parking lot. Having just (I hope) recovered from a really serious back issue that made it impossible to walk more than 50 yards at a time, I can tell you that this would be a nice feature. Fortunately, I park across the street in the Harris Stowe lot. If not, I would have missed a lot of games.

[kshoe]

Lot of good stuff in this thread but here are a few more thoughts:

Comparing attendance today to 18 years ago is just not fair. As Duff man pointed out college basketball isn't as popular as it was back then. Add in that 18 years ago there was no NFL in St. Louis, the Cards were mediocre, one of the two years had an NHL strike (same as this year), we started 14-0 one season, we opened up a fabulous arena one year, had a charismatic coach, played in a damn fine Great Midwest, had local players, etc. you can see why we aren't anywhere near those years attendance wise.

As for the New Mexico game, the date and time was fine for serious fans that planned it well in advance. It was horrible for casual fans as everyone has something else to do. I e-mailed my office of 150 people offering 2 free tickets and got one taker. That isn't an issue of price, or fancy ticket re-sale like the Cardinals or walking distance, that is an issue of people not caring enough to break other plans on that given night.

The true test will be how does attendance improve when we stop playing blood donors and start playing good teams on nights that the casual fan has nothing else to do. Personally, I think its going to improve quite a bit and we'll end up with 3-4 games that are virtual sellouts (Butler, Dayton, VCU and maybe St. Joes as the likely candidates).

[eastsidejoe]

What I don't understand is that we are the only game in town, and we still cannot sell out the Fetz regularly. Everyhone said "Build it and they will come". Well how many sell outs have we had in 5 years? We have drawn some additional students. I think St' Louis is apathetic to pro and college basketball in St. Louis. Then you have to compete with Illinois and Mizzou for air time and on top of that you put out an average product for the most part over the last 10 years. Why doesn't the marketing staff give away 500 tickets to different schools with free hot dog and soda.

I never thought the answer was a stadium on campus. Don't get me wrong, I love the Fetz, but it is not the answer to our attendance problem.

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="eastsidejoe" data-cid="334245" data-time="1357098234"><p>

<em class='bbc'>What I don't understand is that we are the only game in town, and we still cannot sell out the Fetz regularly. Everyhone said "Build it and they will come". Well how many sell outs have we had in 5 years? We have drawn some additional students. I think St' Louis is apathetic to pro and college basketball in St. Louis. Then you have to compete with Illinois and Mizzou for air time and on top of that you put out an average product for the most part over the last 10 years. Why doesn't the marketing staff give away 500 tickets to different schools with free hot dog and soda.</em><br />

<br />

<em class='bbc'>I never thought the answer was a stadium on campus. Don't get me wrong, I love the Fetz, but it is not the answer to our attendance problem.</em></p></blockquote>

Any reason for your italic font? Accident? Drunk?

[bk18]

Attendance numbers (at home thus far) for schools vying to join the BE7

Creighton 16,572

Dayton 12,216

Xavier 9,678

VCU 7,693

Butler 6,972

SLU 6,156

[AMDG]

Attendance numbers (at home thus far) for schools vying to join the BE7

Creighton 16,572

Dayton 12,216

Xavier 9,678

VCU 7,693

Butler 6,972

SLU 6,156

The larger the market, the smaller the attendance. It's almost like there are other things to do in bigger cities than go to a college basketball game.

[bk18]

The larger the market, the smaller the attendance. It's almost like there are other things to do in bigger cities than go to a college basketball game.

Seriously. I mean not much to do in Omaha period.

But I think being in a high profile conference would have a more significant effect on the bigger city programs like SLU and Butler.

[Bobby Metzinger]

Whatever needs to be done to keep some of these kids home needs to be done. Now.

How many kids from UCLA are from Los Angeles? How many kids from UNC are from Chapel Hill? How many kids from Duke are from Durham?

Thinking locally doesn't work and will never work for SLU.

[Cowboy]

I was involved in the arena process and was steadfast in letting people know that the lack of parking close to the arena was a big mistake--do not underestimate the age of our boosters /fans along with the casual "fan" or walk up who just say it is too difficult in the winter versus the ease of the Scottrade center for them---I think it is a BIG reason for the crowd or lack thereof issue

-I agree this is an issue for some, the golf carts while a good thought and look to be used are not practical to folks who don't want to or can't get in an out of vehicles easily or who value independence

-perhaps sometime in the near future there will be a way and the funds to get a parking garage on the Weber lot that connects to the west entrance to the bldg

[GOSLU68]

<p></p><blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="AMDG" data-cid="334248" data-time="1357101509"><p> </p>

<p>The larger the market, the smaller the attendance. It's almost like there are other things to do in bigger cities than go to a college basketball game.</p></blockquote><p></p>

It is all about having a winning tradition in basketball and knowing how to market the brand. We did not have new merchandise in time for the first game in the store at Chaifetz so they could have better turnover? No basketballs with logos when those first couple of Saturday games are loaded with toddlers and grandchildren.

If you look the women's basketball programs also draw at schools that win in men's basketball.

We have a very good baseball team and Division 1 track and field to watch at Compton a couple blocks north of Chouteau. I bet the post writers never go to either.

This should be a juggernaut year after making the NCAA last year and we are usually buried behind coverage of Mizzou by the St. Louis Pos Dispatch. Did SLU ever think of advertising the games on TV?

Coverage of our A-10 opponents is worse. There should be a weekly spreadsheet coverage of wins and loses in A10. If the local media wants to cover a Beast 7 plus Catholic league they should start showing they care now. We can't thrive on Timmerman alone.

Why isn't Crews or Whitesell with an A-10 update on Sunday night sports? This sports town is dormant waiting for pitchers and catchers to report for spring training and the Cardinals are bringing nothing new

By way of trades. We have management afraid to spend a buck in St. Louis.

[Billiken Rich]

Lot of good stuff in this thread but here are a few more thoughts:

Comparing attendance today to 18 years ago is just not fair. As Duff man pointed out college basketball isn't as popular as it was back then. Add in that 18 years ago there was no NFL in St. Louis, the Cards were mediocre, one of the two years had an NHL strike (same as this year), we started 14-0 one season, we opened up a fabulous arena one year, had a charismatic coach, played in a damn fine Great Midwest, had local players, etc. you can see why we aren't anywhere near those years attendance wise.

As for the New Mexico game, the date and time was fine for serious fans that planned it well in advance. It was horrible for casual fans as everyone has something else to do. I e-mailed my office of 150 people offering 2 free tickets and got one taker. That isn't an issue of price, or fancy ticket re-sale like the Cardinals or walking distance, that is an issue of people not caring enough to break other plans on that given night.

The true test will be how does attendance improve when we stop playing blood donors and start playing good teams on nights that the casual fan has nothing else to do. Personally, I think its going to improve quite a bit and we'll end up with 3-4 games that are virtual sellouts (Butler, Dayton, VCU and maybe St. Joes as the likely candidates).

As a long time season ticket holder who was pricedout of season tickets in the new building, I still think the tickets are too high. I attended two games over the holidays with the living social deal and half price seems about right and would likely put at least 2-4 more asses in the cheap seats per game....

I attended one of the games with OkieBilliken who was the SLU grad who got me into SLU basketball in the first place. I know it was the '80s but the first season tickets we bought were under $100 for the pair.

[dlarry]

The walking to the arena argument is a Joke. I walk farther and spend more for parking when going to Blues, Cards, and Rams games.

I walk about twice as far when going to a Mizzou football game.

Parking behind the field house is a shorter walk than parking by Eat Rite for a cards game and prople have no problem doing that.

The problem isnt lack of close parking or a soft non-con schedule its a lack of interest. And with the ability to watch any college game at anytime from the comfort of your home people have no reason to support a team because they are local.

[kshoe]

As a long time season ticket holder who was pricedout of season tickets in the new building, I still think the tickets are too high. I attended two games over the holidays with the living social deal and half price seems about right and would likely put at least 2-4 more asses in the cheap seats per game....

I attended one of the games with OkieBilliken who was the SLU grad who got me into SLU basketball in the first place. I know it was the '80s but the first season tickets we bought were under $100 for the pair.

Season tickets can be bought for as cheap as $180. That's less than $10 a game. Inflation adjusted it's probably in the ballpark of your $50 tickets from the 80s.

[Taj79]

@bk18 --- very interesting attendance numbers indeed and I kind of shortsold the belief in more things to do in larger markets theory but game attendance does not mean much in the long run. Expansion or invite lists to those schools outside the current BE7 is clearly being discussed on the size of the TV markets and the ability to use that to charge more dollars (i.e. make more revenue) in terms of a TV rights package. I don't know how teams split gameday gates (anybody have a clue or if they even do) but I would think that's gravy over and above what's already guaranteed in a TV deal. I'll have to ask Chris May how that works next time I see him.

Another issue with attendance is evident in how some of the current BE7 play at two sites. For example, Nova just hosted NJIT at it's on-campus Pavillion -- a 6,500 seat multi-purpose building. I suspect that it's 1/12 game against Syracuse will be downtown at the Wells Fargo Center, home to the professional Sixers and Flyers. That seats over 21,000 for basketball (with standing room). Same goes for Georgetown, St. John's and even Seton Hall (altho they played only one game in their Walsh Gym, the rest are at the Prudential Center). They all move the big games into the pro arenas located in their respective cities. The same same opportunity would exist for us, Xavier and Butler ... altho doing so would defeat my purpose of a home court arena/advantage. Besides, I doubt St.Louis fills up 22K seat Savvis much anyway for us considering we don't get 10,400 right now. Stay at the Fetz. And selling a bigger gate on a better conference --- I can't see St. Louis getting hyped because Nova or Providence or the Hall is coming to town. I can see a local bounce for schools like Mo State, SIU and Bradley although the bounce would be relatively insignificant in the long run. Besides, who wants the enemy infiltrating the home confines --- I've been to Camden Yards when the Yankess and Sox come to town. It's NY/NE South.

The only thing SLU has going for it in the new world order and the BE7 is it's TV market. If you believe as I do that $$$ is driving all conference moves right now, this is our only real trump card.