Big East Bball continues to crumble

[Bobby Metzinger]

http://www.boston.co...t_jim_calh.html

Took another hit today

Let's see what we have in Storrs for the Huskies...

[prebilliken]

ntial ramifications, and the dust has barely started to settle. First, the ACC is likely going to need a 16th team for basketball, and the expected #1 target seems to be Georgetown. However, would neighboring Maryland block? The wise counsel of our Beyond the Beltway expert, Taj, is sought.

My Pops in a Maryland alum and I grew up a Maryland fan. There is no way Maryland ever lets Georgetown join, they will do everything to block it that they can. While Maryland has had a couple down years in basketball and is relatively lackluster in football (its the freaking ACC everyone is lackluster) they still control a massive following within the DC-Baltimore metro area and have numerous wildly wealthy donors that wouldn't stand for this. Make not doubt about it, being the most loved team within the DC market is the number one priority of the Maryland Athletic department and they will use their sway as a charter member of the ACC to keep GTown out.

Also, does GTown really look that attractive to the ACC? You're not trying to strengthen basketball you are trying to strengthen football. You are already in the TV market that GTown attracts. I just don't see it happening. I have no idea what move you make here if you are GTown, but I wouldn't count on the ACC to come knocking.

[Billirish]

I'm very disappointed with the Notre Dame bashing on this site. I have degrees from ND and SLU and love both schools. They have identical values when it comes to athletics,i.e. academics comes first. You should be proud of ND's success, not disparaging of it. I guarantee you that if SLU could trade places with ND right now all of you would jump at the chance. I realize that some people misunderstand Notre Dame spirit with arrogance. If you have ever walked around campus on a football weekend and gone to the Grotto, you would understand that it is about a lot more than football. It's about achieving success without compromising your principles. I would think that SLU people would understand that type of pride.The Declan Sullivan tragedy was obviously the result of people thinking they knew more about something than they did and ND has admitted that they were negligent. No one feels worse about what happened than the people from ND. Making jokes about it is worse than disgusting. I am a SLU season ticket holder and have been reading this site for news on Billiken basketball, (which I've been following for over 50 years) but I'm fed up with the immature jealousy with which some of you are obviously obsessed. Get over it and concentrate on supporting SLU not criticizing other schools' successes.

[Bay Area Billiken]

My Pops in a Maryland alum and I grew up a Maryland fan. There is no way Maryland ever lets Georgetown join, they will do everything to block it that they can. While Maryland has had a couple down years in basketball and is relatively lackluster in football (its the freaking ACC everyone is lackluster) they still control a massive following within the DC-Baltimore metro area and have numerous wildly wealthy donors that wouldn't stand for this. Make not doubt about it, being the most loved team within the DC market is the number one priority of the Maryland Athletic department and they will use their sway as a charter member of the ACC to keep GTown out.

Also, does GTown really look that attractive to the ACC? You're not trying to strengthen basketball you are trying to strengthen football. You are already in the TV market that GTown attracts. I just don't see it happening. I have no idea what move you make here if you are GTown, but I wouldn't count on the ACC to come knocking.

Thanks. I suspected as much. Georgetown does bring prestige and a high ranking (21st in US News & World Report). Elements of the ACC are concerned about academics.

There's actually some talk re Villanova. Villanova is FCS (D1-AA) in football, but had a feasibility study about moving up to FBS (D1-A). The point is the ACC with ND will need a 16th team for basketball, but without ND football, only needs 14 for football. If ND then decides to fully join when its NBC contract is up, then Villanova would seem to at least have the potential to be a 16th football team down the road.

I think it's interesting to see a possible competition develop between these 2 East Coast Catholic Big East schools, Georgetown and Villanova, allies in the past, for a possible 16th ACC slot.

Still, Georgetown and Villanova are going to do something. A lot depends upon the new ESPN Big East contract. I can envision the long expected Big East schism finally happening.

UConn wants in the ACC and is blocked by BC. Rutgers wants in too.

And thanks Cowboy. It is good to be back.

[OkieBilliken]

I'm very disappointed with the Notre Dame bashing on this site. I have degrees from ND and SLU and love both schools. They have identical values when it comes to athletics,i.e. academics comes first. You should be proud of ND's success, not disparaging of it. I guarantee you that if SLU could trade places with ND right now all of you would jump at the chance. I realize that some people misunderstand Notre Dame spirit with arrogance. If you have ever walked around campus on a football weekend and gone to the Grotto, you would understand that it is about a lot more than football. It's about achieving success without compromising your principles. I would think that SLU people would understand that type of pride.The Declan Sullivan tragedy was obviously the result of people thinking they knew more about something than they did and ND has admitted that they were negligent. No one feels worse about what happened than the people from ND. Making jokes about it is worse than disgusting. I am a SLU season ticket holder and have been reading this site for news on Billiken basketball, (which I've been following for over 50 years) but I'm fed up with the immature jealousy with which some of you are obviously obsessed. Get over it and concentrate on supporting SLU not criticizing other schools' successes.

My disgust at Notre Dame comes from the rank hipocrisy that it has tried to get away with. Read "Under the Tarnished Dome" which describes Lou Holtz's allowing steroids, cheating, criminal behavior of the football team while maintaining a holier than thou attitude. Then after the Holtz era that no one disapproved of, which paved the way for a massive, one of a kind tv contract, 15 years of abject failure, despite being propped up by a national tv network and fawning media. Every division 1 football team has a grotto and their alumni think it is the most special place in the world. However at least at places like Auburn they dont claim to represent the best of a major religion and that they are morally superior than everyone else.

[JMM28]

I'm very disappointed with the Notre Dame bashing on this site. I have degrees from ND and SLU and love both schools. They have identical values when it comes to athletics,i.e. academics comes first. You should be proud of ND's success, not disparaging of it. I guarantee you that if SLU could trade places with ND right now all of you would jump at the chance. I realize that some people misunderstand Notre Dame spirit with arrogance. If you have ever walked around campus on a football weekend and gone to the Grotto, you would understand that it is about a lot more than football. It's about achieving success without compromising your principles. I would think that SLU people would understand that type of pride.The Declan Sullivan tragedy was obviously the result of people thinking they knew more about something than they did and ND has admitted that they were negligent. No one feels worse about what happened than the people from ND. Making jokes about it is worse than disgusting. I am a SLU season ticket holder and have been reading this site for news on Billiken basketball, (which I've been following for over 50 years) but I'm fed up with the immature jealousy with which some of you are obviously obsessed. Get over it and concentrate on supporting SLU not criticizing other schools' successes.

This is the reason everyone hates Notre Dame. Every UND fan has this altered view of reality and feels like UND should be bowed down to.

Here is reality. Notre Dame has been mediocre in football since before everyone on the current team was born. Notre Dame doesnt do things any different than any other school in America, except sending a kid onto a scissor lift during gale force winds. Oh and covering up rapes and resulting suicides.

But keep telling yourself "it's about more than football." Walk around any campus in America on gameday and it's about more than football. It's about getting drunk enough to last you through the first half when you can go into the bathroom and empty your flask into the $7 diet coke you bought.

And please, tell us more how we confuse the spirit with arrogance as you talk down to us about how much better UND is than SLU.

[thetorch]

I almost hate STL area ND boosters as much as I hate STL area Mizzou boosters.

I really don't care how mediocre Notre Dame has been at football for the last 20 years or their almighty NBC deal.

More concerned with how this affects the A10 and SLU.

If the A10 was smart they'd be talking to Marquette & G'Town right now offering them spots in a new A10. In the end though the BE will almost certainly poach the A10 again. With a decent hire we will be on the right side of the continuing conference realignment.

[showthebill]

Covering up rape is a bit of an overstatement... While it is an awful situation, the girl gave him a lap dance, they made out and he took off her shirt.

As for your other comments, yes it is different. I have friends with children at both SLU and ND and have been to sporting events at both schools along with numerous state schools.

It is pretty ridiculous to say Notre Dame doesn't do anything different from any other school. Do you honestly think non-catholic schools spend more money toward social impact? And when it comes to Catholic schools I really can't think of too many other schools ahead of them. Also, people actually do care about every sport there (unlike SLU)

[showthebill]

Also, are you trying to argue that all of Notre Dame collaborated and decided let's try and send a kid up into a lift on a windy day and kill him?

Get with it man... it was a freak accident. Should I spin something bad about SLU because of Willie Reed/Kwamain Mitchell raping chicks or the kid who jumped from Marchetti to get away from SLU RAs

[OkieBilliken]

Covering up rape is a bit of an overstatement... While it is an awful situation, the girl gave him a lap dance, they made out and he took off her shirt.

As for your other comments, yes it is different. I have friends with children at both SLU and ND and have been to sporting events at both schools along with numerous state schools.

It is pretty ridiculous to say Notre Dame doesn't do anything different from any other school. Do you honestly think non-catholic schools spend more money toward social impact? And when it comes to Catholic schools I really can't think of too many other schools ahead of them. Also, people actually do care about every sport there (unlike SLU)

Please! Jesus roots for Notre Dame because they are so special and morally superior...and they support their women's volleyball team. Social impact?? I don't know if Notre Dame is helping society if they keep producing arrogant tools....

[JMM28]

Covering up rape is a bit of an overstatement... While it is an awful situation, the girl gave him a lap dance, they made out and he took off her shirt.

As for your other comments, yes it is different. I have friends with children at both SLU and ND and have been to sporting events at both schools along with numerous state schools.

It is pretty ridiculous to say Notre Dame doesn't do anything different from any other school. Do you honestly think non-catholic schools spend more money toward social impact? And when it comes to Catholic schools I really can't think of too many other schools ahead of them. Also, people actually do care about every sport there (unlike SLU)

My mistake. Let me rephrase. Campus police refusing to even INVESTIGATE a sexual assault ,where a football player held her down and took her clothes off, claim because they protect football players leading to the victim committing suicide! Is that better?

And I would hope it is different for football games at SLU v. UND.

Please tell us more about how great UND is! They spend so much more on "social impact!"

[showthebill]

My mistake. Let me rephrase. Campus police refusing to even INVESTIGATE a sexual assault ,where a football player held her down and took her clothes off, claim because they protect football players leading to the victim committing suicide! Is that better?

And I would hope it is different for football games at SLU v. UND.

Please tell us more about how great UND is! They spend so much more on "social impact!"

Wrong again she was on top of him and took her own shirt off. The claim was groping and grinding along with inappropriate text messages. Should SLU have sent out a campus investigator after every inappropriate groping that happens at Laclede's in instances where a girl goes back and takes her shirt off by herself?

[JMM28]

Wrong again she was on top of him and took her own shirt off. The claim was groping and grinding along with inappropriate text messages. Should SLU have sent out a campus investigator after every inappropriate groping that happens at Laclede's in instances where a girl goes back and takes her shirt off by herself?

Kinda hard for a dead girl to testify...

Educate yourself on the matter :

http://m.deadspin.com/5897809/this-is-what-happens-when-you-accuse-a-notre-dame-football-player-of-sexually-assaulting-you

But could we hear more about how much better UND is than everywhere else?

And SLU actually sends out STL PD. Our guys were being questioned before the sun came up.

[RiseAndGrind]

Wrong again she was on top of him and took her own shirt off. The claim was groping and grinding along with inappropriate text messages. Should SLU have sent out a campus investigator after every inappropriate groping that happens at Laclede's in instances where a girl goes back and takes her shirt off by herself?

Edit: Looks like someone already beat me to it.

[OkieBilliken]

i hate Notre Dame and didn't even know about the rampant raping. There is some social impact in the grotto for you!

[showthebill]

Kinda hard for a dead girl to testify...

Educate yourself on the matter :

http://m.deadspin.co...-assaulting-you

But could we hear more about how much better UND is than everywhere else?

And SLU actually sends out STL PD. Our guys were being questioned before the sun came up.

However, at SLU several guys had sex with the girl. In this instance a girl took her shirt off and was "groped." This same girl also battled severe depression and anxiety throughout high school.

Could there be a claim of sexual assualt via inappropriate groping in this case? Sure. I'm not arguing that there is no cause for concern, but based on what actually happened (and no she didn't testify in court, but she did go to the police after the incident and talk with campus police so there are documents and testimonies from her mouth about what exactly happened that night) it's not the strongest case of sexual assault. She gave him a lap dance and then took her shirt off. I can think of instances at SLU after bars in which a girl drunkenly went to a guys room and then left in the middle upset. The difference in this case is that it involves the pretentious notre dame so lets just slap rape on there and call it a day.

You are saying some guy forcefully raped her which was the absolute direct and only cause of her suicide... That's leaving out some very key facts.

[prebilliken]

I'm very disappointed with the Notre Dame bashing on this site. I have degrees from ND and SLU and love both schools. They have identical values when it comes to athletics,i.e. academics comes first. You should be proud of ND's success, not disparaging of it. I guarantee you that if SLU could trade places with ND right now all of you would jump at the chance. I realize that some people misunderstand Notre Dame spirit with arrogance. If you have ever walked around campus on a football weekend and gone to the Grotto, you would understand that it is about a lot more than football. It's about achieving success without compromising your principles. I would think that SLU people would understand that type of pride.The Declan Sullivan tragedy was obviously the result of people thinking they knew more about something than they did and ND has admitted that they were negligent. No one feels worse about what happened than the people from ND. Making jokes about it is worse than disgusting. I am a SLU season ticket holder and have been reading this site for news on Billiken basketball, (which I've been following for over 50 years) but I'm fed up with the immature jealousy with which some of you are obviously obsessed. Get over it and concentrate on supporting SLU not criticizing other schools' successes.

Bishop? Did you create a throw away name just to stick up for the Irish? C'mon now.

Agree with you that the jokes about the tragic death of a young man are in bad taste, but I also think your narrow point of view illustrates why a lot of Catholic sports fans are sort of annoyed with the Irish.

Either way...

More concerned with how this affects the A10 and SLU.

If the A10 was smart they'd be talking to Marquette & G'Town right now offering them spots in a new A10. In the end though the BE will almost certainly poach the A10 again. With a decent hire we will be on the right side of the continuing conference realignment.

Agreed, I think the A10 looks mighty nice today.

[waldo027]

We should be in the MVC.

[thetorch]

We should be in the MVC.

Only if Rockhurst comes in too as a package deal.

[Bobby Metzinger]

I'm very disappointed with the Notre Dame bashing on this site. I have degrees from ND and SLU and love both schools. They have identical values when it comes to athletics,i.e. academics comes first. You should be proud of ND's success, not disparaging of it. I guarantee you that if SLU could trade places with ND right now all of you would jump at the chance. I realize that some people misunderstand Notre Dame spirit with arrogance. If you have ever walked around campus on a football weekend and gone to the Grotto, you would understand that it is about a lot more than football. It's about achieving success without compromising your principles. I would think that SLU people would understand that type of pride.The Declan Sullivan tragedy was obviously the result of people thinking they knew more about something than they did and ND has admitted that they were negligent. No one feels worse about what happened than the people from ND. Making jokes about it is worse than disgusting. I am a SLU season ticket holder and have been reading this site for news on Billiken basketball, (which I've been following for over 50 years) but I'm fed up with the immature jealousy with which some of you are obviously obsessed. Get over it and concentrate on supporting SLU not criticizing other schools' successes.

Amen. Hey, Fr. Jenkins is a Creighton Prep (Omaha) grad, so he's got some S.J. in him, to go along with his C.S.C.

My Mom is also a Domer, so I agree 100% with this.

[Clock_Tower]

-tell that to notre dame, although as you say this could be a move to ensure their landing place is secure if they must join a conf

-i guess at some point the money from a conf could equal or surpass the money from nbc(esp if that money from nbc is zero) and that is when they join the acc, or whoever gives them the best deal at that time, get in a bidding war

-nbc needs programming on 6 to 8 saturdays a year, how much are they willing to pay nd to keep them in that slot?

-does adidas enter into this anywhere?

-if the acc needs another fball school, that would seem to eliminate gtwn, marq and depaul

-BAB, good to have you back, sorry about no stanford game in your backyard

No. ND is no closer to joining a conference than they were before. If and when ND does join a conference, they will want, and will get, the big money. The big money is with the SEC and the Big 10. The other conferences are well behind.

At this point, the SEC has added Mizzou and TA&M and appears set (though kicking out a school like Vandy wouldn't be out of the question). Right now, the Big 10, though, still has room and still appears to the most logical fit for ND (money, rivals, geography, academics). Obviously, ND remains not interested in joining the Big 10.

Recently, scheduling has been abit more "difficult" for ND. If ND stops the "tradition" of playing all the military schools, then 5 games with the ACC would actually be an upgrade if they retain games with USC and can continue to play some of the Big 10 schools like Michigan, Michigan State and Purdue. In the short run, games with former rivals/ACC members like Boston College and Miami would seem attractive. Money, prestige and quality of fellow football schools (right now) are lacking in the ACC.

As to ACC expansion, sorry, but non-football schools (other than ND) need to apply. SLU has the same chance of joining the ACC as GTown, Villanova, DePaul and 'Nova --- NONE!! Instead, it will take the addition of a Texas and/or Oklahoma to the ACC for ND to join the ACC. Really not that unlikely in that I don't see either Texas or Oklahoma ever in the Big 10 or the SEC. Right now, Texas is largely an "indepedent" with its own TV network and with their respective brand names, both Texas and Oklahoma can survive, for now, without a true conference. Also, the PAC 10 is also unlikely because of time zones, travel and center of power being located on the left coast. Of course, if this were to happen, then the ACC would go from a BCS conference - but not a very good one - to one which could rival/compete with the SEC and Big 10 with respect to football, basketball and the most important aspect of them all -- money.

If and when ND, Texas and Oklahoma decide they want and need a confernce, IMO, the ACC is their collective back-up plan.

[Fansince59]

Does anyone think Marquette and DePaul might be exploring? The Big East is going downward. The two westernmost Catholic Schools --wonder if A10 with SLU Dayton Xavier Butler as opponents might be inviting to them. Better than TCU etc

[Taj79]

@BAB --- ditto what prebilliken said about G-town and Maryland. They are just like any state school-private school-two school battle you see in some other states. Mizzou/SLU. Ohio State/about six or seven other Ohio schools. Penn State/Pitt. Washingotn/Gonzaga. The Indiana schools. Nova/Temple. They even play a BB&T Classic in DC's Verizon Center and while G-town and Maryland are there, each plays someone else and not each other.

I'll have to ask my Nova buddy what's cooking up there -- he did alert me to their upgrade to D1 study that went on last year but they concluded not to proceed at this time. I'll let you know.

[Box and Won]

This is the reason everyone hates Notre Dame. Every UND fan has this altered view of reality and feels like UND should be bowed down to.

Here is reality. Notre Dame has been mediocre in football since before everyone on the current team was born. Notre Dame doesnt do things any different than any other school in America, except sending a kid onto a scissor lift during gale force winds. Oh and covering up rapes and resulting suicides.

But keep telling yourself "it's about more than football." Walk around any campus in America on gameday and it's about more than football. It's about getting drunk enough to last you through the first half when you can go into the bathroom and empty your flask into the $7 diet coke you bought.

And please, tell us more how we confuse the spirit with arrogance as you talk down to us about how much better UND is than SLU.

My sister-in-law had a sign in her dorm room at ND that said, "It's hard to be humble when you go to Notre Dame." I would suggest that most of their alumni - in the STL area, at least - aren't trying hard enough.

[Cowboy]

Does anyone think Marquette and DePaul might be exploring? The Big East is going downward. The two westernmost Catholic Schools --wonder if A10 with SLU Dayton Xavier Butler as opponents might be inviting to them. Better than TCU etc

-it was reported marq and depaul get 7 figures in tv money from the beast and A10 tv money is in the 6 figures, so what is going to make up for that lost revenue to make a move?