RM as a developer of players

[bauman]

It will be interesting to watch over the next few years, how our players develop their individual game skills. I know about RM's reputation with bigs, but here is what I see after 2 years:

KL did not progress under RM, however, this could be due to injuries----hand last year and back and continued hand problems this year;

TL III, all I can say is give us back the player named TL and I'll give you the IIIrd. Yes he is a somewhat better passer and defender (although I don't see the tremendous defense that RM likes to talk about all the time), but his offensive skills and intensity seem to be enrolled in the Witness Protection Program. The last game is just one example, as a SR, playing his last home game with KL & KM out for periods of time due to injuries, I kept waiting for TL to come in for TL III. but it never happened.

At this point we have 2 very good players who have been coached by RM for 2 years and have shown ZERO improvement (possibly even some regression).

KM, a significant improvement over the year, but wouldn't you expect this as a FR gains a tremendous amount of experience and confidence playing 35 minutes a game as the PG.

WR, better than we expected, but how much improvement during the course of the year. 2 months ago I saw him just as good as now.

BC brings a tremendous amount of intensity to the game (and did from Day 1), but has he improved during the year? Not that I can see or quantify through stats.

BT, no noticeable improvement from Nov to March.

KC, see BT, above.

The team as a whole, for the second straight year they limped to the finish line, losing games at the end of the season that they should be winning if they were improving. Last year I give the coaches a pass due to talent. This year with a very young team, playing a large number of FR, I expected to see real improvement from the beginning to the end of the year. From a number of posts early in the year, I seem to recall that as a theme many of us had----'once the FR gain some experience in the RM system we will be much better at the end of the year.'

Were we? I don't think so.

[Guest BillikenReport]

I disagree with you on Brett Thompson and Kyle Cassity.

I thought those guys improved over the course of the season. Neither stepped up to become major contributors, but both showed flashes of their potential and had some moments.

[moytoy12]

It will be interesting to watch over the next few years, how our players develop their individual game skills. I know about RM's reputation with bigs, but here is what I see after 2 years:

KL did not progress under RM, however, this could be due to injuries----hand last year and back and continued hand problems this year;

TL III, all I can say is give us back the player named TL and I'll give you the IIIrd. Yes he is a somewhat better passer and defender (although I don't see the tremendous defense that RM likes to talk about all the time), but his offensive skills and intensity seem to be enrolled in the Witness Protection Program. The last game is just one example, as a SR, playing his last home game with KL & KM out for periods of time due to injuries, I kept waiting for TL to come in for TL III. but it never happened.

At this point we have 2 very good players who have been coached by RM for 2 years and have shown ZERO improvement (possibly even some regression).

KM, a significant improvement over the year, but wouldn't you expect this as a FR gains a tremendous amount of experience and confidence playing 35 minutes a game as the PG.

WR, better than we expected, but how much improvement during the course of the year. 2 months ago I saw him just as good as now.

BC brings a tremendous amount of intensity to the game (and did from Day 1), but has he improved during the year? Not that I can see or quantify through stats.

BT, no noticeable improvement from Nov to March.

KC, see BT, above.

The team as a whole, for the second straight year they limped to the finish line, losing games at the end of the season that they should be winning if they were improving. Last year I give the coaches a pass due to talent. This year with a very young team, playing a large number of FR, I expected to see real improvement from the beginning to the end of the year. From a number of posts early in the year, I seem to recall that as a theme many of us had----'once the FR gain some experience in the RM system we will be much better at the end of the year.'

Were we? I don't think so.

I think it's a fair point, but disagree with a number of assertions. First, I think TL and KL did improve certain aspects of their game, however, they also regressed in certain aspects as you note above. Like you, I'm left wondering why. Oil and water? Did they not take to RM's system? Did they stop caring? Did RM use them improperly? Did he stop caring to coach them up? Don't know if we'll ever get an answer to that. Finally, BE looks to have take ownership of the role that he was given and he played significantly better later in the season. I have to think some of that is due to RM.

As for the freshmen, I think they all improved. You seem to discount RM's affect on KM by chalking it up to gaining experience. I disagree. I think it's a combo of KM gaining experience and RM getting a lot out of KM's ability. During the latter half of the season, it seemed that KM went to the hole much more (granted, I haven't been able to see a lot of games) and created many more scoring opportunities for himself. Was this KM or RM's doing? I'd have a hard time believing that RM would allow KM to just play this freely without instructing him to do so.

KC looks like a much better player than he did early on. His passing, knowledge of the offense and confidence grew. His shot, for whatever reason (form looks good), just isn't there.

BT, I thought he improved tremendously. Sure, he looks slow footed, but he looked like he belonged much more later in the season as opposed to earlier in the season.

WR, has become a better, albeit not great, defender. Also, the games I watched, he seemed to be getting more boards. Better positioning? RM's input?

BC - I would say that I have seen the least improvement from BC, but also thought BC knew his role from day 1 and didn't have as high a learning curve as the others. Love the kid and what he brings. I'm not sure RM had to coach him up to fulfill the required role this season.

[Bishop]

It will be interesting to watch over the next few years, how our players develop their individual game skills. I know about RM's reputation with bigs, but here is what I see after 2 years:

KL did not progress under RM, however, this could be due to injuries----hand last year and back and continued hand problems this year;

TL III, all I can say is give us back the player named TL and I'll give you the IIIrd. Yes he is a somewhat better passer and defender (although I don't see the tremendous defense that RM likes to talk about all the time), but his offensive skills and intensity seem to be enrolled in the Witness Protection Program. The last game is just one example, as a SR, playing his last home game with KL & KM out for periods of time due to injuries, I kept waiting for TL to come in for TL III. but it never happened.

At this point we have 2 very good players who have been coached by RM for 2 years and have shown ZERO improvement (possibly even some regression).

KM, a significant improvement over the year, but wouldn't you expect this as a FR gains a tremendous amount of experience and confidence playing 35 minutes a game as the PG.

WR, better than we expected, but how much improvement during the course of the year. 2 months ago I saw him just as good as now.

BC brings a tremendous amount of intensity to the game (and did from Day 1), but has he improved during the year? Not that I can see or quantify through stats.

BT, no noticeable improvement from Nov to March.

KC, see BT, above.

The team as a whole, for the second straight year they limped to the finish line, losing games at the end of the season that they should be winning if they were improving. Last year I give the coaches a pass due to talent. This year with a very young team, playing a large number of FR, I expected to see real improvement from the beginning to the end of the year. From a number of posts early in the year, I seem to recall that as a theme many of us had----'once the FR gain some experience in the RM system we will be much better at the end of the year.'

Were we? I don't think so.

I do not completely agree with some of what you say about player development...

KM - hard for me to make a judgement on RM's influence on KM's development as playing time does have a great influence on confidence and an understanding of the game. However, clearly KM's shot - particularly from the outside - has greatly improved over the season. I think throughout a season a coach's main struggle is getting a player to feel comfortable in an offense and with defensive assignments. I dont think you can ignore RM's influence on giving KM the confidence and the ability to run the offense and to let him play without worrying about making a silly mistake or two while on the defensive end KM was pulling players aside and explaining/setting their defensive assignments without the influence of RM to do so.

WR - strength is his problem, not skill development. At the start of the year, WR tried to dunk EVERYTHING and if he received the ball in the post had absolutely no idea what to do with it. Over the past few weeks, WR has developed and used a series of up and unders and has started to develop a move over his right shoulder.

BT - saying this he has not improved at all is my biggest disagreement. In the first 10 games he gave us almost nothing. Towards the end of the season he not only gave us some rebounding but also began to score and defend when asked to do so. His problem once again was conditioning and a lack of mobility. This often got him into quick foul trouble and he was unable to stay in the game. His development, although not showing up as much in the box score may have been the 2nd greatest behind KM.

The most obvious example of WR and BT's improvement can be seen with the St. Joe's game. Going up against one of the best big men in the game, they held their own. Sure Nivens got his points but in no way did he destroy us. I think the stat was that over the last 9 or 10 minutes he did not even score a point... At the start of the year, teams with big men just killed us.

BC - no clue what to say, he regressed or he just did not improve and got passed up by the rest. I dont know which...

KC - Towards the end of the season we even say KC taking the ball to the hoop, rebounding on both ends and at one point he was even blocking shots! Anyone who could say they would have seen rebounding and blocking shots being a part of KC's game at the end of the year would have been laughed off this board.

Overall, its hard to see development in some of the box scores, but to say that there has been little to no development in some of these players is just not right.

[bleedbluegary1]

As far as developing players the first thing that has to happen is that an offensive system has to be developed. I for one have been critical of Kevin and Tommy it is not entirely their fault. Kevin is a pretty good shooter but how can we expect him to be consistant when he constantly has to create his own shot. Tommy is a kid over his time at SLU averaged 13-15 points a game why the drop off in production, some of it has to do with the development of KM something has happened to to Tommy.

One thing that would help and I think alot when the sots aren't falling quit sitting out on the perimeter an passing the ball around and feed the big fella. Coach says the defense doesn't allow this. He does know he can call a timeout and adjust for once why don't we let our offense ditate a game.

[moytoy12]

As far as developing players the first thing that has to happen is that an offensive system has to be developed. I for one have been critical of Kevin and Tommy it is not entirely their fault. Kevin is a pretty good shooter but how can we expect him to be consistant when he constantly has to create his own shot. Tommy is a kid over his time at SLU averaged 13-15 points a game why the drop off in production, some of it has to do with the development of KM something has happened to to Tommy.

One thing that would help and I think alot when the sots aren't falling quit sitting out on the perimeter an passing the ball around and feed the big fella. Coach says the defense doesn't allow this. He does know he can call a timeout and adjust for once why don't we let our offense ditate a game.

Good points. However, are our bigs really at a point where we can feed them and let them go to work? Will they really be able to produce much offense? I think that's a strategy we'll certainly be able to employ next year. I'm just not so sure the bigs are at that stage this year.

Unfortunately, this season I think we have to live and die by the outside shot and KM's penetration. It does raise the very good point you mention indirectly, why hasn't Tommy been as aggressive in going to the hole? Is that on RM's instruction? Did Tommy just decide to not do it as much? It sure would boost this offense if KM and TL could consistently get to the hole, leave KL on the perimeter and let our bigs to clean up the mess.

[kshoe]

It will be interesting to watch over the next few years, how our players develop their individual game skills. I know about RM's reputation with bigs, but here is what I see after 2 years:

KL did not progress under RM, however, this could be due to injuries----hand last year and back and continued hand problems this year;

TL III, all I can say is give us back the player named TL and I'll give you the IIIrd. Yes he is a somewhat better passer and defender (although I don't see the tremendous defense that RM likes to talk about all the time), but his offensive skills and intensity seem to be enrolled in the Witness Protection Program. The last game is just one example, as a SR, playing his last home game with KL & KM out for periods of time due to injuries, I kept waiting for TL to come in for TL III. but it never happened.

At this point we have 2 very good players who have been coached by RM for 2 years and have shown ZERO improvement (possibly even some regression).

KM, a significant improvement over the year, but wouldn't you expect this as a FR gains a tremendous amount of experience and confidence playing 35 minutes a game as the PG.

WR, better than we expected, but how much improvement during the course of the year. 2 months ago I saw him just as good as now.

BC brings a tremendous amount of intensity to the game (and did from Day 1), but has he improved during the year? Not that I can see or quantify through stats.

BT, no noticeable improvement from Nov to March.

KC, see BT, above.

The team as a whole, for the second straight year they limped to the finish line, losing games at the end of the season that they should be winning if they were improving. Last year I give the coaches a pass due to talent. This year with a very young team, playing a large number of FR, I expected to see real improvement from the beginning to the end of the year. From a number of posts early in the year, I seem to recall that as a theme many of us had----'once the FR gain some experience in the RM system we will be much better at the end of the year.'

Were we? I don't think so.

Willies ability to rebound and play defense is considerably better then it was at the beginning of the season. His offensive output is roughly the same but teams aren't going to be dumb enough to allow back-door alley-oops as much as he got early in the year.

[Cowboy]

The team as a whole, for the second straight year they limped to the finish line

-i'll have to think about player development a bit, but this part does concern me

-rick even said last week he tends to over work the guys

-so next yr, with virtually all sophs and frosh and his wanting to teach so much, who is there to tell rick we can't go for 3 hours today the team needs a break?

-i think whoever that person is maybe the mvp of the program for next season

[Clock_Tower]

It will be interesting to watch over the next few years, how our players develop their individual game skills. I know about RM's reputation with bigs, but here is what I see after 2 years:

KL did not progress under RM, however, this could be due to injuries----hand last year and back and continued hand problems this year;

TL III, all I can say is give us back the player named TL and I'll give you the IIIrd. Yes he is a somewhat better passer and defender (although I don't see the tremendous defense that RM likes to talk about all the time), but his offensive skills and intensity seem to be enrolled in the Witness Protection Program. The last game is just one example, as a SR, playing his last home game with KL & KM out for periods of time due to injuries, I kept waiting for TL to come in for TL III. but it never happened.

At this point we have 2 very good players who have been coached by RM for 2 years and have shown ZERO improvement (possibly even some regression).

KM, a significant improvement over the year, but wouldn't you expect this as a FR gains a tremendous amount of experience and confidence playing 35 minutes a game as the PG.

WR, better than we expected, but how much improvement during the course of the year. 2 months ago I saw him just as good as now.

BC brings a tremendous amount of intensity to the game (and did from Day 1), but has he improved during the year? Not that I can see or quantify through stats.

BT, no noticeable improvement from Nov to March.

KC, see BT, above.

The team as a whole, for the second straight year they limped to the finish line, losing games at the end of the season that they should be winning if they were improving. Last year I give the coaches a pass due to talent. This year with a very young team, playing a large number of FR, I expected to see real improvement from the beginning to the end of the year. From a number of posts early in the year, I seem to recall that as a theme many of us had----'once the FR gain some experience in the RM system we will be much better at the end of the year.'

Were we? I don't think so.

Completely disagree. RM has developed his players. BE has come from nothing to a key player for us. All of the freshmen, especially KM, has developed greatly. BC's points have decreased but then again his role has changed. As to TL and KL, will refrain from comments until after the season. The season is not over yet and here's one fan who's is hoping for some real good games.

[ACE]

Husak and Danny Brown last year and Barry this year all improved tremendously under RM. As for the freshmen, remember all the hand-wringing after the UMSL game? They all clearly improved throughout the season - except Conklin sort of hit a wall after a strong start. He will be just fine next year after putting in his offseason work. I like the way the kid plays.

[DoctorB]

I will say it is hard to see much real improvement in 2 months or so, though I agree certain players have come a long way, especially Kwamain. And it's hard to test it with players like Kevin and Tommie, who were juniors when Coach M. arrived. In fact, it is not a fair test at all.

I think real development is tested from where a freshman is at the beginning and where is he at the end of sophomore year-- or even between freshman and junior year.

It's pretty obvious that some of our freshmen need to fill out, work on quickness, stamina, and weight-training, and just mature.

I often teach freshmen and see very little growth over a semester (4 months). But the differences between freshmen and juniors, especially among the gifted, is way off the charts.

ps -- Danny's considerable improvement can be mostly attributed to playing with two good knees instead of one and a third.

[jimbofive]

ps -- Danny's considerable improvement can be mostly attributed to playing with two good knees instead of one and a third.

No kidding. Poor Danny, wish he'd been healthy all along. He was always one of my favorites. There was just nothing better than letting out the most guttural D-NICE! you could after he hit a big trey or threw down one of his rare dunks.

D-NICE!

[GOSLU68]

No kidding. Poor Danny, wish he'd been healthy all along. He was always one of my favorites. There was just nothing better than letting out the most guttural D-NICE! you could after he hit a big trey or threw down one of his rare dunks.

D-NICE!

In the A10 second half performances were better under RM than BS. RM biggest effort was to get pounds off BT, BC, BE unfortunately we did not put pounds

on TL, WR or KC and lack of strength left KM, KL, KC, and WR on the floor getting pushed from the side or back by the opponents and TL always liked to

play the phantom and slip in or out for the quick score. With so many of our players being brutalized TL was just not going to ruin his chances at a nice

European contract by being shoved around and getting a broken arm or leg. My guess his father or a would be agent said get your assists and rebounds

don't worry about scoring and I can get your $200,000 in Italy or someplace warm next year.

College coaches have to put up with outside influences, remember how Spoon reacted to Larry Hughes leaving early. Just think what a nice contribution Cotto would have made playing second half when KL went down around half time because of a sprained ankle. That kid could have added 250 points to our bench scoring and been in the mix for a possible starting role next year when we see him at La Salle in the future we can remember he never bonded

with our team and jeer him on.

[RUBillsFan]

I think you almost need to look at player development on a year to year basis rather than within the season. During the season various factors (fatigue, injuries, quality of opponents, small sample sizes) can cause the numbers to not really mean much.

We only have 2 seasons worth of data and we only have 4 players who we can look at year to year with Majerus. Given the fact that the system totally changed, I don't think you can compare KL and TL pre-Majerus to with Majerus. KL is probably about the same as last year I'd say. TL overall is probably slightly better than last year. BE has improved tremendously over last year. PE does not really apply because his playing time has dropped so much from last year, but I'd say he is about the same or maybe slightly worse. Overall, I think that counts as development.

It will be interesting to see how the freshman develop next year and beyond. It may be tempting to make snap judgments about them, but I think you have to look at a bigger picture. Hopefully 2 years from now we'll be a top team in the A-10 and all of the players will have developed very nicely.

[Taj79]

I have to say that I have seen a huge development in terms of WR, BT. Km and KC over the year. I remember watching the men swat the boys out of Cintas earlier this year on ESPN and continually reciting the mantra "Freshmen become sophomores, freshmen become sophomores" over and over. I have seen the development mentioned by those before me so I wont' belabor the point.

Having said that, RM has a history of developing players. Hanno Motola. Keith Van Horne. Andre Miller. Andrew Bogut. Alex Jensen. Brett Johnson all come to mind during Rick's days at Utah. Did HE develop each and every one of them? I doubt it --- I doubt a chubby dude like Rick says "watch me do it and follow my lead." But development is a part of the coach, a part of the staff, a part of the university, a part of the strength staff and, MOST importantly, a part of the individual. You have to want it to succeed.

I still don't have a qualm with Rick's statement that Tommie, Kevin and Barry "weren't his guys." Would they be here if Rich were recruiting two, four, five years ago? Maybe. Maybe not. I could see him go after Lisch for sure. I don't know about Tommie although I'm sure he'd try and no way in hell he goes after Barry only because Barry was a spring signee and I have to believe Rick would have been full up with commitments and Barry wouldn't have been as key to Rick as he was to Brad. Let's face it, coaches and staffs and their personalities have a lot to do with today's recruit. Michael Beasley was at Charlotte for his one year if Huggins doesn't come along and offer the coach on Lutz's staff a position taking Beasley with him. I could see Kevin welcoming any challenge especially one to play for a HOF coach. Tommie? I don't know. I would think so but even if Tommie isn't one of Rick's guys, he sticks around because, well, he was a stud under Soderberg and he'll be a stud under Rick. What else was left on the cupboard? But we've all heard that Rick can be a prick and it takes a certain kind of kid with a certain personality to play for that guy. Would everyone have thrived under Knight? Billy Martin? Mike Keenan? I give the kids credit for staying but development is personal drive; you don't have it, you ain't likely to find it. I don't know that happened here but it wouldn't be unexpected, would it?

Ever quit on a coach? I have. I didn't sulk or pout or do whatever to disrupt things. But in my mind, I was doing what I was told to do, doing it right, and still getting yanked. So the last six or eight games of the year, screw it. If I'm going ot get pulled, I'll get pulled being me and not being something I wasn't. In the long run was that wrong? Probably. But at 17, what did I care. I was a lot happier. Scorign average went up like 12 ppg. We won six of eight or four of six or whatever. I didn't hog the ball or intentionally not pass to this guy or that. Instead of waiting for a cutter to jog aroujnd a screen, I took it to the hole and made something happen. But Tommie did regress in the Majerus system and I believe that if today were five years ago, Tommie would take one look at SLU and beg UNLV to take him. He'd pay his own way most likely.

This program never got "stars." Stars in my time include Johnnie Parker Sr (dud), Monroe Douglas (great get), Roland Gray (ditto), and Larry Hughes. Bonner was not a stud, neither was Claggett or Highmark. Julian Winfield was considered one but he left after a year. We don't get Jahidi White, Chris Carrawell, LaPhonso Ellis, Tyler Hansbrough, Tyler Griffey, Scott Suggs, Craig Upchurch, Hasan Houston or Steve Stipanovich. Doesn't happen. What I have long advocated is a system, a system put in place and sustained over time so that the name on the front of the jersey is much more important. A Gonzaga program. A Creighton program. A Butler program. A Xavier program. A program implemented by a Gillen, an Altman, a Monson, which is then carried on in perpetuity by their follow-on assistants. A Duke program where Rick stays infinitely long like Mike would be good but we all know Rick is on a five or six year mission at most. A system that allows you to win and not one that is dependent on getting a Beasley or a Hughes or a White or a Rose for one-and-done. The Hughes fiasco still shows me that as a program, we can't afford that. Not yet.\

I think it takes a special kid to play into Majerus' system as much as it takes a special kid to have the desire to do what it takes to get where they want to get. I think Lisch would have been phenomenal in this program for four years but he would have had a more singular role, that of shooter and zone buster, more than the offensive linchpin. Like I said, Tommie wouldn't have given this program a second look five years ago.

I cna't close this post without a question, however. If you think Majerus doesn't develop kids, then what did Soderberg do? He had five years with Justin Johnson. Four years with Bryce Husak. He was constantly scouring the international scene for stopgaps --- getting lucky with Vouyoukas and doing a so-so job with Ohanan. And we never had an early signing to comment on with maybe the exception of Lisch and Liddell. Of the long line of coaches I've seen come and go, Grawer and Soderberg were about the best because I think those two really wanted to be here for the right reasons. Spoon and Romar were transients. Rick may be one as well. I just think that with this being possibly his last stop, he'll want a huge legacy to leave behind.

Year two but its still in Rick I trust.

[jimbofive]

hey, willie, start taking notes. you'd look good with an extra 15-20 lbs of muscle. and then you wouldn't be on the floor half a dozen times a game. do it.

holy crap. just not fair.

[GoBills]

This program never got "stars." Stars in my time include Johnnie Parker Sr (dud), Monroe Douglas (great get), Roland Gray (ditto), and Larry Hughes. Bonner was not a stud, neither was Claggett or Highmark. Julian Winfield was considered one but he left after a year. We don't get Jahidi White, Chris Carrawell, LaPhonso Ellis, Tyler Hansbrough, Tyler Griffey, Scott Suggs, Craig Upchurch, Hasan Houston or Steve Stipanovich. Doesn't happen. What I have long advocated is a system, a system put in place and sustained over time so that the name on the front of the jersey is much more important. A Gonzaga program. A Creighton program. A Butler program. A Xavier program. A program implemented by a Gillen, an Altman, a Monson, which is then carried on in perpetuity by their follow-on assistants. A Duke program where Rick stays infinitely long like Mike would be good but we all know Rick is on a five or six year mission at most. A system that allows you to win and not one that is dependent on getting a Beasley or a Hughes or a White or a Rose for one-and-done. The Hughes fiasco still shows me that as a program, we can't afford that. Not yet.\

You gave an outstanding post and I agree with much of what you say, so that's why I hate to nitpick, but the comment about Hughes really caught my attention. "Fiasco"? I'm not sure what you mean by that? He led a mediocre squad to the Big Dance. Guys who came after him like Justin Love and Marque Perry mentioned that Larry Hughes playing here caught their attention. If you get a unique talent like Hughes, you still take him, and I bet even Majerus would agree. Coach talks a lot about systems, etc., but he also talks a lot about bringing in talented players.

[slu72]

You gave an outstanding post and I agree with much of what you say, so that's why I hate to nitpick, but the comment about Hughes really caught my attention. "Fiasco"? I'm not sure what you mean by that? He led a mediocre squad to the Big Dance. Guys who came after him like Justin Love and Marque Perry mentioned that Larry Hughes playing here caught their attention. If you get a unique talent like Hughes, you still take him, and I bet even Majerus would agree. Coach talks a lot about systems, etc., but he also talks a lot about bringing in talented players.

Ask any coach and he will tell you "you win with talent". Why do you think recruiting's such a nasty dirty game? That said, we've seen many teams come from nowhere with the same players in their 2nd-4th years to make amazing turnarounds. Witness TL's 3 pt improvement his Soph year. I too thought the frosh would develop more visibly this year, but seriously that's unrealistic. One, this was still a SR dominated team with KL and TL. Am sure that impacted the FR's development, they always had or thought they had KL and TL to cover their backsides. From only seeing a few games on a laptop it's impossible for me to judge who developed and who didn't. But a player's development tends to grow geometrically rather than in a linear fashion. You learn one thing and develop it that leads to another more development and it keeps building. The light bulb goes on so to say. Also, development is not just a coach's responsibility but the players as well. Just finished reading a piece on David Lee in SI. Last summer he worked hard on his 15 ft jumper and raised his ppg by 7 pts a game. He could be in for a nice raise since he's a free agent. If we don't see skill improvement, plus some buffed up bods in BT, BC, and WR, at the start of next year, then questions need to be asked. One: Are the players lacking the commitment to build on what they learned this past year, eg "hey Willie you proved you can leap tall buildings but you've also got to be stronger than a locomotive to compete at this level." ? Two: Is the coaching staff not giving the players lessons to work on over the summer? What specifically are we looking for in each player's development: KM - better PG decisions, keep working the 3 pt shot? KC- better develop a shot and some confidence to take it, with the incoming "sharpshooters" you're gonna need it, quickness? BC- a nice mid range jumper would be a good weapon to add to his arsenal, some more muscle , work on being quicker? WR- bulk up bulk up bulk up.... plus a nice little hook or fall away jumper would be sweet. BT- muscle...muscle....muscle.... footwork....footwork....footwork.... and hell, why you're at it, work on that 3 pt shot along with your post moves. When you look at the top teams, SLU still has a long way to go athletically speaking. Check out Pitt, UL, UNC, Duke in this years NCAA for proof. We don't have any players now or coming in next year like these teams do, but when you watched RM's Utah teams you didn't see many athletic types either. What you saw were good fundamentals, good BB IQ, and mental toughness. Those are qualities that can benefit an athletically challenged team and make them winners. Development questions can't really be answered until about mid season next year is the bottom line. This summer will be important for these kids, let's hope they use it wisely.

[JaleJarr]

TL was just not going to ruin his chances at a nice European contract by being shoved around and getting a broken arm or leg. My guess his father or a would be agent said get your assists and rebounds don't worry about scoring and I can get your $200,000 in Italy or someplace warm next year. College coaches have to put up with outside influences, remember how Spoon reacted to Larry Hughes leaving early. Just think what a nice contribution

Jimbo I've always enjoyed your post. There is always something humorous in your post but they always contain a lot of truth. It's unfair however to say Tommie somewhat packed it in due to concern about his professional future. Tommie has always made the game seem effortless. You can't average 6.9 and 6.8 rpg in your first two seasons by not giving max effort. In terms of Tommie's regression, there is a big white elephant or 800 lb gorilla in the room no one is seeing. After coming off a very successful freshmen season, Tommie suffered no sophomore slump. He raised his scoring average from 10.3ppg to 15.4ppg. His rebounding remained steady from 6.9 as a frosh to 6.8 as a soph. He even improved his defensive rebounding total from 138 to 173. Tommie raised his free throw attempts from 3.0 per game to 3.6 per game. Tommie three point shooting went from an anemic 9.5% to 45.4%. In fact he was connecting on 52.6% of his three pointers before injuring his toe in the 26th game of the season vs Dayton. Tommie scored in double figures in 28 of 33 games, reaching that figure in 19 of his last 22 games. He would score between 16-28 points in 14 of his 33 games. In those 14 games he would post averages of 21.9ppg and 6.2 rpg. He shot 57.1% overall and 57.3% in 3ptfg% in those 14 games.

Clearly this guy was headed for a monster junior season, what happened? Rick Majerus happened. The new offensive philosophy de-emphasized Tommie's attacking drives to the basket. Instead Bryce Husak and other limited offensive players were rolling his way with that extra defender who simply doubled Tommie as they had no respect for the person setting the screen. The results were Tommie taking 73 less shots overall and 25 less three point shots. Tommie's scoring dipped from 15.4ppg to 12.3ppg. His rebounding also fell from 6.8rpg to 4.3rpg. Tommie's senior season would see the same trends as he matched last season's fg attempts. His 3pt attempts fell by 10 from the previous season. Go back and review all the statements about Majerus in relation to winning not being the most important goal, and put yourself in the shoes of the players seeing that statement being put it to practice game after game, one can't help but ask the question of are we really committed to winning every time out.

[jjray]

Thanks for your perspective JaleJarr. Coach's comments to the press his first season here were infuriating. RM will be successful at SLU given time. But people should realize he didn't help the career of Tommie Liddell.

[jimbofive]

Jimbo I've always enjoyed your post. There is always something humorous in your post but they always contain a lot of truth. It's unfair however to say Tommie somewhat packed it in due to concern about his professional future. Tommie has always made the game seem effortless. You can't average 6.9 and 6.8 rpg in your first two seasons by not giving max effort. In terms of Tommie's regression, there is a big white elephant or 800 lb gorilla in the room no one is seeing. After coming off a very successful freshmen season, Tommie suffered no sophomore slump. He raised his scoring average from 10.3ppg to 15.4ppg. His rebounding remained steady from 6.9 as a frosh to 6.8 as a soph. He even improved his defensive rebounding total from 138 to 173. Tommie raised his free throw attempts from 3.0 per game to 3.6 per game. Tommie three point shooting went from an anemic 9.5% to 45.4%. In fact he was connecting on 52.6% of his three pointers before injuring his toe in the 26th game of the season vs Dayton. Tommie scored in double figures in 28 of 33 games, reaching that figure in 19 of his last 22 games. He would score between 16-28 points in 14 of his 33 games. In those 14 games he would post averages of 21.9ppg and 6.2 rpg. He shot 57.1% overall and 57.3% in 3ptfg% in those 14 games.

Clearly this guy was headed for a monster junior season, what happened? Rick Majerus happened. The new offensive philosophy de-emphasized Tommie's attacking drives to the basket. Instead Bryce Husak and other limited offensive players were rolling his way with that extra defender who simply doubled Tommie as they had no respect for the person setting the screen. The results were Tommie taking 73 less shots overall and 25 less three point shots. Tommie's scoring dipped from 15.4ppg to 12.3ppg. His rebounding also fell from 6.8rpg to 4.3rpg. Tommie's senior season would see the same trends as he matched last season's fg attempts. His 3pt attempts fell by 10 from the previous season. Go back and review all the statements about Majerus in relation to winning not being the most important goal, and put yourself in the shoes of the players seeing that statement being put it to practice game after game, one can't help but ask the question of are we really committed to winning every time out.

extremely valid points. i agree 100%. kevin and ESPECIALLY tommie basically got sacrificed for the program. KL still gets his points because of FTs and still taking a ton of shots (his FG% was like 36% this year, PATHETIC). it's unfortunate that the reins couldn't come off majerus' first year, because there were no young guys coming back that he would need to instill the system in. but it was his first year and it was his show and people needed to know that. this year, he had to set the groundwork for the billikids. it's a crappy situation, and i wish that everyone could have gotten theirs, but i don't think anyone did anything wrong and that's just the way it had to go. i hate to do it, but the blame has to be on BS for surrounding TL and KL w/ bums. oh well.

[Clock_Tower]

Jimbo I've always enjoyed your post. There is always something humorous in your post but they always contain a lot of truth. It's unfair however to say Tommie somewhat packed it in due to concern about his professional future. Tommie has always made the game seem effortless. You can't average 6.9 and 6.8 rpg in your first two seasons by not giving max effort. In terms of Tommie's regression, there is a big white elephant or 800 lb gorilla in the room no one is seeing. After coming off a very successful freshmen season, Tommie suffered no sophomore slump. He raised his scoring average from 10.3ppg to 15.4ppg. His rebounding remained steady from 6.9 as a frosh to 6.8 as a soph. He even improved his defensive rebounding total from 138 to 173. Tommie raised his free throw attempts from 3.0 per game to 3.6 per game. Tommie three point shooting went from an anemic 9.5% to 45.4%. In fact he was connecting on 52.6% of his three pointers before injuring his toe in the 26th game of the season vs Dayton. Tommie scored in double figures in 28 of 33 games, reaching that figure in 19 of his last 22 games. He would score between 16-28 points in 14 of his 33 games. In those 14 games he would post averages of 21.9ppg and 6.2 rpg. He shot 57.1% overall and 57.3% in 3ptfg% in those 14 games.

Clearly this guy was headed for a monster junior season, what happened? Rick Majerus happened. The new offensive philosophy de-emphasized Tommie's attacking drives to the basket. Instead Bryce Husak and other limited offensive players were rolling his way with that extra defender who simply doubled Tommie as they had no respect for the person setting the screen. The results were Tommie taking 73 less shots overall and 25 less three point shots. Tommie's scoring dipped from 15.4ppg to 12.3ppg. His rebounding also fell from 6.8rpg to 4.3rpg. Tommie's senior season would see the same trends as he matched last season's fg attempts. His 3pt attempts fell by 10 from the previous season. Go back and review all the statements about Majerus in relation to winning not being the most important goal, and put yourself in the shoes of the players seeing that statement being put it to practice game after game, one can't help but ask the question of are we really committed to winning every time out.

Jarr. Obviously, you have personal insight with TL. Do you care to elaborate? TL has been playing 35 to 40 minutes per game and there has to be more than him being partially double-teamed by the person setting the screen. Also, your point appears to be more valid last year with BH and DB being the guys who set the screens. This year, WR, BE and BC have done quite well when left open after setting the screen. If anything, IMO, TL III did not do a very good job looking for, and/or getting the ball to, these guys setting the screens.

Second, I believe your other point about "winning not being the most important goal" is quote taken completely out of context. If you really believe that, then you are saying that RM (this season as well as last season) is not trying to win games. I say BS.

[billiken_roy]

If you think Majerus doesn't develop kids, then what did Soderberg do? He had five years with Justin Johnson. Four years with Bryce Husak. He was constantly scouring the international scene for stopgaps --- getting lucky with Vouyoukas and doing a so-so job with Ohanan. And we never had an early signing to comment on with maybe the exception of Lisch and Liddell. Of the long line of coaches I've seen come and go, Grawer and Soderberg were about the best because I think those two really wanted to be here for the right reasons. Spoon and Romar were transients. Rick may be one as well. I just think that with this being possibly his last stop, he'll want a huge legacy to leave behind.

taj, why would we compare rickma to soderberg? there is no comparison. to make that comparison imo is an insult to rickma. we have to expect more and i bet rickma expects more. my standards are higher than soderberg considering what we indeed have as a coach, new facilities, greater budget, more tutors, better travel, better strength and conditioning personell and facilities, etc.

the real answer to this silly string is there hasnt been enough time pass in the rickma era to really answer the question. one year "improvements" likely arent even really improvements (or not) as much as players understanding roles and coaches and opposing coaches maybe changing their focus and assignments imo.

true improvements more likely happen may - september.

as to lisch and liddell, imo it all comes down to "not his guys". so the sooner we move on the better for everyone.

[billiken_roy]

extremely valid points. i agree 100%. kevin and ESPECIALLY tommie basically got sacrificed for the program. KL still gets his points because of FTs and still taking a ton of shots (his FG% was like 36% this year, PATHETIC).

schemes and philosophy change from coach to coach. all i know is that kevin and tommie each seem to shoot 3-5 shots a game with the shot clock about to expire and they have to create their own opportunity. take those misses away from their stats and their shooting percentage would rise dramatically.

i'd still take the two of them over anyone on the team to play 3 on 3 with or to play a game of horse or around the world.

[jimbofive]

i'd still take the two of them over anyone on the team to play 3 on 3 with or to play a game of horse or around the world.

i agree with this as well.