Factors for this year's team

[slu72]

Just to stir up some hoops talk. I see the following factors, in order of importance, being the key to having a winning record this year:

NOTE: It goes w/o saying the most important factor would be avoidance of injuries to of any of our key contributors. We are really thin this year. Maybe even more so than last year.

1.) TL's adjustment to RM's system, or RM eases the leash on him (not likely though). TL has to come up big and exert himself this year. We need him to play at a first team all conference level.

2.) BE must be a factor in the paint and provide some scoring. If he's another Newbourne we're toast. It will take the frosh bigs some time getting used to the banging and quickness of D1 hoops.

3.) KL has to be more of a threat from three point range. Other than him, I don't know who else will do it.

4.) At least two of the frosh have to contribute and do it real quick. My picks would be KM and BC. Though that is pure speculation on my part.

5.) The frosh have to buy in completely to RM's quirky ways, system, and intense practices, etc. You ain't in HS ball anymore, Toto. When they get browbeat by RM and homesick for mommy, here's hoping they're able to dig deep into the character well and stick it out. Actually, this factor might the most important. If there's a lot of whining going on in the locker room and guys thinking, "I'm outta' here", or "I don't need this cr**", This season could get real ugly.

[billiken_roy]

Just to stir up some hoops talk. I see the following factors, in order of importance, being the key to having a winning record this year:

NOTE: It goes w/o saying the most important factor would be avoidance of injuries to of any of our key contributors. We are really thin this year. Maybe even more so than last year.

1.) TL's adjustment to RM's system, or RM eases the leash on him (not likely though). TL has to come up big and exert himself this year. We need him to play at a first team all conference level.

2.) BE must be a factor in the paint and provide some scoring. If he's another Newbourne we're toast. It will take the frosh bigs some time getting used to the banging and quickness of D1 hoops.

3.) KL has to be more of a threat from three point range. Other than him, I don't know who else will do it.

4.) At least two of the frosh have to contribute and do it real quick. My picks would be KM and BC. Though that is pure speculation on my part.

5.) The frosh have to buy in completely to RM's quirky ways, system, and intense practices, etc. You ain't in HS ball anymore, Toto. When they get browbeat by RM and homesick for mommy, here's hoping they're able to dig deep into the character well and stick it out. Actually, this factor might the most important. If there's a lot of whining going on in the locker room and guys thinking, "I'm outta' here", or "I don't need this cr**", This season could get real ugly.

slu72, i like your thoughts, but i would like to point out that kevin lisch currently is already fourth on the all time 3 pointer list. barring something unforseen or tragic, he will end up second all time in made threes.

i.e. i dont know how much more you can ask of lisch to go up.

i cant see how the "keys" to this year's team can be anything but success or not from the freshmen. that is going to be our whole season. lisch and liddell will likely both be electric and go out as future hall of fame billikens. that's a given imo.

[TheChosenOne]

5.) The frosh have to buy in completely to RM's quirky ways, system, and intense practices, etc. You ain't in HS ball anymore, Toto. When they get browbeat by RM and homesick for mommy, here's hoping they're able to dig deep into the character well and stick it out. Actually, this factor might the most important. If there's a lot of whining going on in the locker room and guys thinking, "I'm outta' here", or "I don't need this cr**", This season could get real ugly.

The problem is the guys returning have that attitude towards Majerus. Maybe he won't be as insufferable with guys he actually recruited.

[moytoy12]

I think the ability of our freshmen bigs to contribute early and often on both sides of the court is key.

[slufanskip]

slu72, i like your thoughts, but i would like to point out that kevin lisch currently is already fourth on the all time 3 pointer list. barring something unforseen or tragic, he will end up second all time in made threes.

i.e. i dont know how much more you can ask of lisch to go up.

i cant see how the "keys" to this year's team can be anything but success or not from the freshmen. that is going to be our whole season. lisch and liddell will likely both be electric and go out as future hall of fame billikens. that's a given imo.

It's pretty obvious that the freshman are the key. Imo we need 2 freshmen to perform at or close to the level Tommie and Kevin did. It'll be easier for the guards, either KM or RC to make an early impact, but we also need BT, BC, or WR to step up early also. My thoughts are we'll get good performances from KM and RC which will give us a very guard oriented team. We can win with that, bigs take a little longer, but I would expect BC and BT to contribute also. Femi John also could surprise, the guy has Kevin's strength and Tommie's quickness. He can really get to the hole.

I agree with most people ... I would think we'll have between 15 and 20 wins.

[slufanskip]

The problem is the guys returning have that attitude towards Majerus. Maybe he won't be as insufferable with guys he actually recruited.

One thing RM consistently stresses about this class, they are almost all winners. I don't think RM's style will affect them much.

[ACE]

I think BE might be the biggest key. Will he be more effective playing the 4 than 5? Can he be our 3rd scoring threat?

[SLUDrew]

I think BE might be the biggest key. Will he be more effective playing the 4 than 5? Can he be our 3rd scoring threat?

I tend to agree most with moy and Ace in that we need big production ( at least big rebound production) from one of the frosh at the 5 and BE MUST step up and be a force.

[GOSLU68]

I tend to agree most with moy and Ace in that we need big production ( at least big rebound production) from one of the frosh at the 5 and BE MUST step up and be a force.

I was really disappointed in BE last year; All American JC and 6 foot 8 he was not. He showed no signs of competintg on the boards. I am hooping the new kids are more eager to get free from their defenders and are in shape to keep up on defense. RM had a right to be down on this team.

With 3 or 4 of last year's players getting tje same niumber of minutes; the new kids should be better in the minutes Polk had; we should be as good as Danny Brown's minutes. I think RC and KM will add scoring and passing game that we did not get. If BC and BT are strong and competent we should be allright and I would think we could get back near 20 wins with the number of games we will play. The obvious question is can RM get the team enthused about playing teams we have never had on the schedule before who lack big name status. I think we will battle well against teams like Nebraska and BC but if we lose to some nobodies it could be a long season.

I really am interested in seeing if RM can get this team to play together. It seemed we had one thought or two actually the last two years. Either TL

or KL would score if not we were finished early

[Quality Is Job 1]

The obvious question is can RM get the team enthused about playing teams we have never had on the schedule before who lack big name status. I think we will battle well against teams like Nebraska and BC but if we lose to some nobodies it could be a long season.

I really am interested in seeing if RM can get this team to play together.

Tommie Liddell III and Kevin Lisch should be kicking butts and taking names if anyone isn't up for any game. Coach Majerus shouldn't have to say a word. It's all or nothing for these two seniors. They compose one of the best backcourts SLU has ever had (at least top 5), and they've never been to an NCAA Tournament. If they have any fire in their belly, the freshmen will play beyond their years and over their heads.

Surely Liddell and Lisch, as seniors, combined, can have an impact equal to what Larry Hughes had, when he led a team that would otherwise be below .500 ('97 and '99) into the second round of the NCAA Tournament. I'm not promising that they will, but if they have that competitive fire and urgency, they have the talent. I hope they get it done, because it's been a long time since I've found an NCAA Tournament truly meaningful.

[slu72]

slu72, i like your thoughts, but i would like to point out that kevin lisch currently is already fourth on the all time 3 pointer list. barring something unforseen or tragic, he will end up second all time in made threes.

i.e. i dont know how much more you can ask of lisch to go up.

i cant see how the "keys" to this year's team can be anything but success or not from the freshmen. that is going to be our whole season. lisch and liddell will likely both be electric and go out as future hall of fame billikens. that's a given imo.

Broy, I wasn't slamming KL. I just hope his 3 improves a little more. We're going to need it. As someone pointed out, TL and KL = Legend. Actually, a little more to my way of thinking. So, who knows, maybe if all the pieces fall into place this team can somehow pull off a miracle in 08-09 season. The more I think about the "lousy" schedule, the more it makes sense to me. Yeah, it does little or nothing for our RPI, but it may prove invaluable come mid January through late February, considering how much we're banking on a bunch of Freshman. And while these frosh aren't exactly no namers, none of them are Carmello Anthony or Michael Beasely either.

[3star_recruit]

Surely Liddell and Lisch, as seniors, combined, can have an impact equal to what Larry Hughes had, when he led a team that would otherwise be below .500 ('97 and '99) into the second round of the NCAA Tournament.

Larry was able to have the impact he had because Spoon made an exception and got out of his way.

[billiken_roy]

Larry was able to have the impact he had because Spoon made an exception and got out of his way.

as much as i love tommie and kevin, they arent hughes. hughes was by far the greatest talent that ever hit the floor at slu. others combined body of work may have exceeded, but hughes could consistently do things that no others could do including lisch and liddell. hughes was indeed good enough to carry a college team.

[jjray]

We're in serious trouble up front. 3 of our 4 bigs are freshman and only one of those three (Conklin) is ready to log serious minutes. Reed is absolutely not ready. Our guards will have to carry the team ala the Spoon days.

[billiken_roy]

We're in serious trouble up front. 3 of our 4 bigs are freshman and only one of those three (Conklin) is ready to log serious minutes. Reed is absolutely not ready. Our guards will have to carry the team ala the Spoon days.

if our bigs can rebound and defend like robinson and campbell, and rickma turns lisch and liddell loose, i think that can replicate. those are two huge if's though.

[slufanskip]

We're in serious trouble up front. 3 of our 4 bigs are freshman and only one of those three (Conklin) is ready to log serious minutes. Reed is absolutely not ready. Our guards will have to carry the team ala the Spoon days.

What makes you think Conklin is ready?

We can be a good team with our guards. We need one of KM or Rueben to be very good, the level of Tommie or Kevin as freshmen. We need the other to be able to be a good reserve along with Paul. If that happens we will have as good or better guards than we've had since the Clags days.

If Barry has lost 15 lbs, I have no doubt he can be a decent 4, not a star, but good. Conklin should be backing him up and maybe backing up Brett at the 5. If Brett can play 25 minutes a game and rebound and play D while adding a little scoring ... I think we'll be decent, and have a chance at 19-20 wins.

We don't need any of the freshmen to be superstars, just good solid players.

[Box and Won]

I was really disappointed in BE last year; All American JC and 6 foot 8 he was not. He showed no signs of competintg on the boards.

I'm willing to give BE the benefit of the doubt. It seems like most of our JUCOs take a year to develop, and he's reportedly coming back in much better shape this year. We'll see if he can play with some fire.

[3star_recruit]

as much as i love tommie and kevin, they arent hughes. hughes was by far the greatest talent that ever hit the floor at slu.

Of course neither one is Hughes as an individual player. But thicks post referred to their collective impact. Think of how more potent this team could be on offense if each of those kids got 15 shots a game.

[Cowboy]

-slu72 - i think i see your point - you want the players that have experience to get better and the new ones to contribute

-could not agree more

-obviously some are ok with at least one player not improving because he has done so much already, which i don't understand

-can you be a hof'er without ncaa tourney?

[brianstl]

Of course neither one is Hughes as an individual player. But thicks post referred to their collective impact. Think of how more potent this team could be on offense if each of those kids got 15 shots a game.

I would like to see them get more shots, but I would trade the combo of Tommie and Kevin for Larry any day.

[Cowboy]

I would like to see them get more shots, but I would trade the combo of Tommie and Kevin for Larry any day.

larry, with help, brought us to the tourney, so to this point, i would not make that trade

[slufanskip]

Let's take a look at it position by position.

+1 = a little better, +2 = much better, +3 = significantly better

At the 1 - KM and RC. KM is a solid player who is strong on the ball and can distribute, I would expect him to be a little better at penetrating, but I'm not sure how much better he'll shoot. I gave it a plus 2 because we have a real backup without having to move Kevin off the 2. RC can really shoot, and I think it will transfer to this level, like KM he is strong and should have the ability to penetrate.

+2

At the 2 - KL He should play over 30 minutes a game at the 2 and be backed up by RC and or PE. Kevin should show improvement with a year in RM's system, the same can be said for PE.

+1

At the 3 - TL who also should be improved from a year in the system and the natural progression from a jr to a sr. I would expect him to also play over 30 minutes a game. It would be nice to see Femi show enough to take those minutes, but if not we will probably move to more of a real 3 guard offense with Kevin or Tommie always on the floor.

+1

I see absolutely no doubt our guard play should be improved, and maybe significantly improved with more depth.

At the 4 - BE who should be better with his weight loss and history shows that many times a juco player has a much better Sr year than Jr year. I'm not sure he will match Luke, especially leadership wise, but with Conklin backing him up I'd say we might be about even ...I'll go worst case and call this a

-1

At the 5 - BT or WR. I'd guess BT, the question will be do the backup minutes go to WR or BC. Right off the bat, having only seen BT once, I'd say he will not match Bryce early, but with either BC or WR as a backup we will be at least as good and maybe better overall. Last year when Bryce sat, we had a too heavy BE at the 5 and with BE playing just over half a game, that's a lot of minutes with BE at the 5.

+1

In the frontcourt we will have more depth than last year, but take a hit losing Luke. I would say overall in the front court we should be equal to last year, possibly better as the freshman get aclimated and make improvements.

Overall I don't see how we will be worse, our guard play should be significantly better and our front court about the same. Kevin, Tommie, and Barry should have some fire in them, and be ready to step up and provide solid Sr leadership. Looking at it like this, makes me feel comfortable asuuming at least 17 wins and possibly 20.

[3star_recruit]

For an example of a relatively successful team that had two offensive stars, a solid frontcourt player and not much else you don't have to look any further than last year's Temple team.

[billiken_roy]

-obviously some are ok with at least one player not improving because he has done so much already, which i don't understand

i like the way you twist cowboy. i never said that. i said to expect him to improve on that aspect is asking a lot since he already is at a hall of fame level for three pointers made.

btw, david burns is a hall of famer. anthony bonner is a hall of famer. mckinney and gray are hall of famers.

i could go on.

do you know much about billiken history?

[willie]

Of course neither one is Hughes as an individual player. But thicks post referred to their collective impact. Think of how more potent this team could be on offense if each of those kids got 15 shots a game.

I think this is a huge point. If RM is the coach I think he is he will figure out how to get them more shots, and still stay in his system. This team will go as far as they can carry us. I thought RM gave them more freedom latter in the year and I would hope they have even more freedom this year. We'll see how long it takes for Tommie to get a clear out.