My Postgame Thoughts

[billikenfan05]

The Crowd,Blue Crew, Band etc were AMAZING!! alot more casual billiken supporters got into the game than i expected. I did get told to sit down but it was because the guys toddler couldnt(and he was a billiken fan so i was happy to do so) and he was nice about it

Vouyoukas- Handled Hansborough very well. He made life semi-miserable for the game

Liddell-Played good thought he could have been a little more selective with his shots. You could tell sometimes where he was forcing shots

I thought lisch made up for lack of offense with tenacious help defense on Hansborough

"I was on fire, I was hotter than a pistol" Jason McElwaine

If theres no SLU basketball in heaven I'm not going!!!!!!

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[slufanskip]

I thought the crowd sucked. Absolutely horrible. We get down and start to bring it back a little and you can't get anyone up and yelling. Rarely did we ever get it loud on defense. The ACC may be a better conference, but their fans realize they are at a game. If you are one of the fans that want to sit quietly all game ... just shut up, don't ***** about the team.

I have the name for our new arena. The Library ... shhhhh

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[RealisticBilliken]

SLufanskip,

I know this doesn't happen often, but I agree completly with you here. I was embaresssed by the silence of this game. When I was yelling, I felt like the players could here me it was that quite. I was yellin my ass of, but noone around us cared.

[billiken_roy]

the carolina depth is amazing. when you can bring in the likes of ginyard, thompson, green and we didnt even see frasor, that is pretty amazing.

second, the billikens were just exhausted in the second half. hopefully coach soderberg sees he cant keep playing with 6 players.

that layup that kevin lisch just barely missed was astounding. but it seems to me that he is obviously hurting. he needs this week off badly to heal.

first half ian was awesome. but second half he was too tired to be effective.

as good as hansborough is, i'd take the freshman branden wright over him. he reminded me of garnett bigtime. his 4 blocks were huge.

lawson dominated polk.

i believe that was the largest basketball crowd ever at that facility.

[slu72]

The Lisch miss on the layup really could have been a game turner. Well, not really considering how the second half went. But the crowd had the volume up to max in the first half, and then went dead in the second when UNC went on their run(s). Face it, they have a bench that had players that would be starters at most schools. Our bench is very thin.....nothing to be ashamed about tonight. This is a legit tourney team. Whether we do it or not remains to be seen, but I was pleased with what I saw tonight. Again, this game did not look like the score. We've got to beat Ole Miss.......

[BleacherBum593]

I think it was Kevin on the postgame show who said that they ran out of gas in the 2nd half. But, he said that was no excuse. Felt awful proud of him when he said that.

NC basically just had too much depth. They constantly keep rotating players, keeping everyone fresh. IIRC, they outscored us by something like 20-4 off the bench.

I know one thing. Ian is going to be hurting in the morning. NC pounded on him all night long. Ref only called about 2 fouls on the interior play and let NC get away with mugging Ian on almost every trip down the floor. Never the less, he matched Psycho point for point, rebound for rebound.

[slufanskip]

If you would call the crowd noise in the 1st half ... up to the max ... just shows how skewed an opinion gets from watching the Bills. It was never, not even for 1 second realy loud. With 22 thousand people in attendance and 75% or more Bills fans, there is no reason we shouldn't have given our guys a real home court advantage. We didn't do it.

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[Basketbill]

alright perhaps that is too strong a word. I think Soderberg said in the post game interview, he wanted kids to dwell on this game a little, feel dissapointed and come back ready to work. I think pomeroy has the statistical probabilty correct, I think we could have beat UNC, but 9 times out of ten their depth is too much.

Talent wise do we match up, Ian played Hansborugh to a draw.......but wore down, Hansborough gets a great deal more help an rest. Yes ian you can play up to that level but you need to do it every game!!

Lisch is not the same, his hand has got to hurt. Stiches will take three weeks to heal completely, but if he is re-injuring it each game he may not be fully healthy until the Xavier game.

Did anyone catch what Roy williams said after the NC player was messing with Lisch hand?

But Lisch has more heart than any NC player. His determination to foul Hansborough to prevent a dunk, said NOT IN OUR HOUSE!

This team has shown that against similar talent they can play with anyone, but agianst superior depth they get worn down. Brad has to find a two players with offensive skills who can be added to the rotation

Did anyone see Obi there?

[basketballcountry]

<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>

DUH..YES

most teams are

Oh yes

Forgot about slu.......LMAO

What if these slu fans had to play JUST a few tourney teams a year

Their little crowds they have now for the also runs they play now and MAYBE have a small chance to beat..

would turn into a ghost gym.

BTW

North Carolina said they could hear their dribbling last night.Said it was strange.

Maybe they have let sluie stay around close on the scoreboard longer.

No noise for a college basketball game.

UNREAL

What a fan base slu has...

DIVISION 2 BABY

[SLUBALLS]

Just a question from a non b-ball person....wondering about something I keep seeing from the team. SO many times during a game you'll see a billiken player get the ball up around the 3 point line have no where to go, start looking around frantically for someone and no one's moving for him. In soccer, we always talk about supporting angles for the player on the ball and for players to avoid being "flat" to the player with the ball...so my question is what are basketball players supposed to do as far as "opening up" for a player such as the one I mentioned? It just seems I see it happen a lot and I sit there asking, "Why isn't anyone moving for him?"

[sltom6]

Are you on something, son? Seriously.

[billiken_roy]

skip keep in mind that if you break that 22k down, my guess is that at least 6,000 were carolina fans, and 6,000 were curious casual fans that only came to watch carolina (like going to the circus). probably another 2,000 were people that heard this was the place to be and couldnt care less that a basketball game was going on.

[Schasz]

Good points Roy as the only way the crowd could have gotten on the Bills bandwagon was if it was obvious that an upset was in the making and that NEVER really happened last night. Decent 1st half followed by the meltdown in the 2nd half. No real excuses as the more talented team won last night, and it is back to the drawing board for Coach Soderberg and our team.

[AlumniFan]

It is the sign of a weak mind that derives pleasure from anonymously attacking other people.

[Taj79]

While it would have been nice to relive the Louisville, Kansas or Miracle in Memphis days, I think you have to look at this game, take th eblinders off, and see that the weaknesses discussed in this year's team were exposed for what they are.

#1) Six or seven deep just ain't going to cut it. We got thirty minutes from JJ and DB totaling four points.

#2) Playing four guards may be our strong suite but in the long run, its not going to work against teams with horses like UNC. For the most part, it will and it will especially work in a conference like the A10 where guard play dominates, nine nights out of ten.

#3) The early season ability to nominate and develop a viable four option seems gone. We are what we are and unless Brad gives up on the seven man rotation we are looking at breaking down even more. As many note, Lisch is hurt. Might take a while to recover. WHAT IF ... another piece breaks down in light of the workload.

#4) This team still lacks a readily identified outside game outside of Lisch. And he's hurting. The best team's in SLU history had either multiple options (Gray/Douglas/Bonner or Claggs/Hmark/Waldman/Turner) or a one-man All-American (Hughes) who made thoe around him better. Ian is inside. Lisch is outside. And Liddell is a viable slasher. But all three rely on the other two doing their thing to make their respective things work. If Lisch ain't hitting, the middle for IV and drives for TL aren't going to be there. We still don't have a dependable other shot maker.

#5) While this game (UNC) is an aberration (unless you happen to play in the ACC night after night), DP went back to the DP of old. Something like 1-of-6 shooting, no assists, eaten up by his opponent according to one poster. We marveled at how well he had done up to this game and I believe this is an aberration as noted, but here's hoping he ignores this and goes back to producing like before.

St. Louis fans are notorious for being front runners and being where its fashionable to be seen. Can you imagine a 10K seat arena packed with folks who wanted to be there last night instead of the curious and the Poplar crowd? Kiel/Savvis/Scottrade never has and never will be a home court advantage for our Bills. I think Biondi and company ought to put in all bleacher-style seats at the BiondiDome with the exception of the high rollers who pay for them. That way, it would be too uncomfortable to sit on those padded arses and the hardness would piss all off so much that anger would begin the minute you made it to your seat and yelling would be a great release. I recall the Notre Dame facility being that way above the first level. Seats set up in theater comfort make fans comfortable. Just a thought.

I am happy with 9 and 3. I am also hopeful as Brad said that the team takes away a real lesson in what it takes to be one of the nation's elite as UNC is, was and always will be. It should help in the long run with the A10.

[kappy96]

No one has raised the point that maybe Brad's "motion offense" just isn't the right fit for our program. I mean we continue to have to many wasted trips down the floor and our guys don't seem comfortable in their responsibilities.

Also, I hope Brad is feeling the heat of recruting like schmuck because it is his responsibility and his alone that we continue to run our team out there with NO help. If our bench isn't good enough, then he needs to make it better or recruit better. Would have been nice to have a Juco shooting guard out there on the perimeter last night who could drain some momentum changing 3's. Instead our team continued to force it to Ian like everyone knows we are going to do because WE HAVE NO OFFENSE!

[Bay Area Billiken]

Having seen SLU play once in person (Pacific) and twice on TV (Loyola-Chicago and North Carolina), all I can really do is ask a couple of questions for those more in the know:

1. We need a second shooter, especially against the East Coast zones that are coming from Temple and St. Joe's. What about freshman Dustin Maguire? He is rarely getting any minutes at all. Wasn't he a shooter coming out of high school?

2. How about giving freshman Adam Knollmeyer, listed at 6'9", some more time at the 4, power forward spot, playing with Ian Vouyoukas? If Knollmeyer can give some minutes, then Luke Meyer can get some time at the 3, which puts another potential shooter out there. Although Luke has not been hitting many 3's, he can hit the mid-range jumper.

If SLU can work these two (Maguire and Knollmeyer) more into the rotation, or at least Knollmeyer, then the bench is not so thin. SLU would have 8 or 9 players playing instead of 7.

We are looking forward to seeing the Billikens in person next Saturday against Ole Miss, as we return to the Great Midwest for the Holidays.

I still believe the Billikens have a real good shot at making the NCAA Tournament this year.

Last night SLU ultimately lost to an ultra-talented team that may well prove to be the best in the country. The final 21 point margin is unfortunate for the casual watchers that just look at the score or a short highlight. That game was closer than a 21 point game. Remember SLU led by as many as 6 points in the first half.

[cheeseman]

First of all you have to play 2 halves in a game - ie: Pacific, Loyola, Houston, SMS - they lost to us because they did not. We lost tonight because we did not play 2 halves. I agree our rotation is not deep enough to play top teams like UNC or TAMU. That is a recruiting problem and Brad has to fix that or it will sink him. Our shooting is still a problem - no improvement from last year against teams that take Ian out of the game - the second half was just that, Ian was a non factor for the first 12 minutes or so of the 2nd half and we had no one to counter from the perimeter. It made me remember just how Dreja put us on his back at Chapel Hill last year with his shooting - he is the only reason we were as close as we were last year to them. Since we do not have a viable 3pt threat we find ourselves trading 2 pt baskets with their 3pts shooters - mathematically you will always loose in that deal. Luke - not blaming him - does not have an outside shot even a mid range jumper. He is hesitant to shoot and when he does he has no confidence. He is not the answer at the 3 either but apparently he is the best we got. I will take 9-3 but this 2 steps forward and 1 step back habit is getting old.

[BleacherBum593]

Anyone else getting the feeling that this guy sounds like Kevin Slayton, Jr.?

Since your son plays for a Div 2 school, you should know big mouth.

[NuBillsFan]

Agreed...

Don't understand these coaching decisions. Why was Maguire recruited if they are not gonna give him a chance? With KL obviously struggling with his hand and DB being so streaky, why wouldn't Soderberg put him in to see if he can contribute?

Knollmeyer had been getting a few minutes, but last night in came Husak instead... and in the first thirty seconds, he missed a bunny and turned it over?

With about four minutes to play, when they clearly are not going to win, why not get these kids some P/T? So they make a mistake. Does it matter if you lose by another couple points? Giving these guys a few minutes in those situations could pay dividends down the road when you need to have some depth. Had Coach Williams not put in his bench with under a minute to go, I don't think Soderberg would have put anyone else in. It looked to me like he only did it as an afterthought. How much is a young player going to learn in 47 seconds?

If the coaches have no confidence in their freshmen, why was at least one of them not red-shirted? Really starting to wonder about Soderberg's ability to keep thinking/coaching when he is pissed. He quit coaching in the second half against A&M because of his emotions - will he continue to do so?

[tseugnekillib]

all freshmen get 20hrs a week to impress the coach staff and to earn real minutes in a game. The mop up minute at the end game means very little to nothing. When a freshman has earned minutes he will get first-half minutes or minutes early in the second-half. The freshman needs minutes with four other starters to have a chance at success.....playing with three walk-ons will unlikely give you a chance to impress anyone.

[tseugnekillib]

1) without question, SLU needs more quality depth,

2) plus our guards need more strength, unfortunately they (DP,KL,TL,DB) may be more middle-weights by nature. DP was giving up 35+ pounds to his counterpart on UNC (Lawson?). SLU was outmuscled on the perimeter at Texas A&M as well. Guard strength may not be an issue in the A-10, but it is proving to be a serious disadvantage against the big boys!

[courtside]

With so many similar threads I will jump in here for post-game. As for the game itself, SLU played a nice 12-15 or so minutes to start the game. They had an opportunity to finish the half better. SLU needs either super conditioned athletes who can play near 40 minutes, or serviceable subs who can spell for 5 minutes at a time. Not having either hurt them late in first half. Turnovers increased, shot selection poor, and no offense being run last 7 minutes of first half.

No shame in losing to UNC. They are big strong, athletic, deep and can shoot 3's, score in transition, or finish near the hoop. That's a lot of things.

IV played well. He got tired of course in second half. If he had another move or two, an up and under etc..to get his pts to more like a 20 per game instead of 13-14...would really help him offset his conditioning. Obviously he is remarkably improved over first two seasons, however to play at next level in NBA will need to really work on conditioning even a lot more. Played well. Would only say needs to keep working on passing out of the post with better decisions. My biggest beef was why SLU didn't get him the ball MORE. He didn't get enough touches imo.

BS's post game thoughts were interesting about being unhappy with the result. That is all fine and good but recruit better and more athletic players, period. It isn't complicated. If you recruit current Frosh, none of which can get any time in non-conference schedule to gain experience, then why are they recruited in first place. Red shirt a few if that is going to be the case. Certainly somebody has to be able to provide better minutes than Justin Johnson? And a youngster still has upside to improve. Conservative BS is playing not to lost NCAA bid. Not a big fan of that but understand his strategy. By that I mean, he will go 6 deep because other upperclassmen aren't good enough, and Frosh aren't ready yet. Answer to that is recruit better Frosh who can provide spell minutes for starters and gain valuable experience in games.

SLU has had trouble with Athletic aggressive defenses with pressure, Houston, UNC etc...because they do not have enough ball handlers/point guards. They need two.

SLU needs to get more athletic in recruiting because it is very very difficult to win consistently if you cannot get transition baskets. Even when SLU tried last night, albeit against a great team, they haven't finished all that well in transistion when getting the few opportunities they do against decent competition. Tenative, awkward finsihes. Can't win every night walking it up without attacking off of the makes or misses. Very slim margin for error.

Shooters. Can't rely on one kid to shoot the ball. SLU needs a couple of shooters too. People will talk about the Liddell and Polk improvements, etc..but they really aren't shooters. Liddell does a lot of other things well and has improved his shot when it is wide open against lesser competition. Polk was expectedly destroyed last night. Shows you what happens when he mathces up with equally or more quick players...blow by him on dribble and shoot right over him from deep. For Polk to be more of an asset, needs to be a shooter, he isn't, and needs to penetrate more and create more for others, and he isn't. ...against decent teams.

On the current team, Liddell is a nice slasher, wing, mid range game....so moving on to power forward...SLU doesn't have one as we know. Meyer tries hard, hustles etc...and can contribute against lesser teams in variety of ways...but he isn't a shooter, he vastly undersized in post....classic tweener...will get you a drive score once in a while, but not a lot more....will hustle for loose balls and rebounds, but his feet are slow, something very important needed in college ball, quick feet.(It is reason DM doesn't get time)

This is why it is so important to have back to back classes of two high quality recruits, or at very worst, every other season, to approach top 25, and the quality of athleticism needs to improve. SLU needs a lot of players to play much much faster. They play too slow...footwork etc...

As I said, no shame in losing to UNC, and would much rather see them schedule, and a loss than an easy ugly win over whomever else lesser. You learn a lot more about where you are as a current team and program. I didn't expect a win, expected better second half and more of a game though.

SLU scheduled well, and should dominate conference play. And unless they slip out of top two in conference, should get to NCAA tourney. But certainly not a lock if they fall out of top 2 and don't win conference tourney.

BS can talk all he wants about about being disappointed with this and that...etc...what he should be saying, is we need better players and better atheletes who can shoot the ball. I need to recruit better.

Two point guards, power forward or big who can shoot, are the most glaring needs on the teams. I am all for rooting for players and their improvement...but SLU is a team where Luke Meyer HAS to start because there is no one better. Polk HAS to start because there is no one better. That shouldn't be the case, and that is the goal in next few years...to recruit kids better than what you have. Force those tweeners and less talented kids to the bench to be your spell guys. SLU is taking slow plodding steps to do this.

People can respond by saying, well this is soooooo much better than last year or recent years...etc...and that is fine, and I agree, but you have to have goals and standards for the future, higher than where they are now. Getting a new facility and practice facility is great step in right direction. Winning the close ugly games as opposed to losing them is step in right dircetion. But I am not without concerns.

People can root for guys, cheer improvements, all of those great things, but SLU needs to recruit better players and atheltes who can shoot. Coach can be upset with his guys etc...all he wants....I argue they played very hard, ran out of gas due to short bench, and without the ability to score in transistion, are forced to try to score in half court against more athletic bigger players. It is a lot easier to try to defend those types of players than score with or against them if you don't have the horses. Perhaps Lisch could have made things more interesting with a better hand, but not dramatically so.

SLU doesn't have the hoops tradition. SLU doesn't get great student support for athletics.....among many other things...so it is up to the coach...a lot on the coach to go out and make it happen in recruiting, and it is tough business. But that is what SLU needs. Can BS recruit better athletes of different sizes and positions who can also shoot? That is the big question. We shall see.

[tseugnekillib]

today, Luke has the best FG shooting percentage on the team at .478

take out his sorry 1 for 8 from the 3pt line and he is shooting .512 (42 for 82) from mid-range to the rim. yes, he gets driving layups, but he also misses driving layups.

DP, TL and LM are shooting significantly better thru 12 games this season than they did for the entire 2005-06 season. her's some stats.

TL 2005-06 FG%=.408 3PT=.095 FT=.629

TL 2006-07 FG%=.436 3PT=.433(amazing improvement) FT.717

DP 2005-06 FG%=.328 3PT=.174 FT=.633

DP 2006-07 FG%=.420 3PT=.297 FT=.750

LM 2005-06 FG%=.328 3PT=.233 FT=.828

LM 2006-07 FG%=.478 3PT=.125 FT=.808

Can only assume KL injured hand has played a role in his lower current season results.

KL 2005-06 FG%=.446 3PT=.414 FT=.719

KL 2006-07 FG%=.430 3PT=.358 FT=.770

[billiken_roy]

soderberg history tells us it is the rare freshman that plays significant minutes. i am not condoning that, just pointing out those questioning why the likes of maguire and knollmeyer are not playing more.

and those of you ready to right players off because they are not contributing, i noticed watching the illini and mi$$ouri game on tuesday the vast improvement and minutes played by the illini inside players. both carter and pruitt have stepped up big time this year.

let it play out before writing a player off.