VTIME Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I've made a lot of noise about how Soderberg has missed out on local recruits, but Romar is guilty as well. He missed out on a young man named Paul Miller who is the 2006 Player of the Year in the Missouri Valley conference. Miller is a Jeff City native out of Blair Oaks High School. The state of Missouri as well as the St. Louis Metropolitan area have been a good fit for the MVC and vice-versa. Miller is a heckuva player who will probably be playing for money next year, if not the NBA, then the NBDL, or overseas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 That kid is very good - didn't realize he was from Jeff. City. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 It just goes to show that we really could be a tourney team with all local guys. Miller, Oppland, Lisch, Liddell, Ahearn is a tourney team. Then bring Falker, Shaw, Tatum, Evans, Polk, Barnett, McKinney, Shipley, Frazier,Lawrence etc off the bench. Incredible. We missed on a lot of guys for various reasons, but I believe SLU can be tourney team for years if they just can close the borders. The past is the past, but you what kind of solid team it could be. If we recruit the area we win and win BIG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 what gets lost in the Ahearn Clark debate is that despite his press he is only a 39% 3 pt shooter. would have been third best on SLU's team and just ahead of danny. His foul shooting certainly helps, but 39% for his career is not impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 There is nothong wrong with 39% shooting from the 3. Thats the equivalent of a 58% 2pt shooter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 And politely shooting down the point on Ahearn...tough to compare one guy on one team to another, one is Frosh one is Junior...different everything...etc..One would expect Lisch to have great stats then etc.. For this season and for your point...Ahearn's percentage was 2% worse than Lisch and AD. Those two are the only two applicable players in this scenario. Ahearn however attempted 33 more 3's than Lisch and about oh...around 80 or so more than AD. His turnover to assist ratio was better than Lisch's...and comparable, slightly better but not significantly so than AD. Free throws are huge. Not just the percentage, which was huge itself...in comaprison to 70-71%...which isn't bad for a Frosh....but the amount of Free Throw attempts for Ahearn was more than double Lisch, and obviously even way more than that to AD who was injured etc...some people totally disregard the value of ft %, and the value of attempts when you have that percentage. Those points are just as valuable as a long 3, a great dunk,etc... Everyone here knows Lisch is a better recruit than Ahearn, and have a better career if healthy, ....I singled out Lisch only because he was the most comparable in shooting stats etc...best SLU offered.... Ahearn as it turns out would have been good enough to play at SLU and have a role on the team more so than some other guys who have been on the team. We know his weaknesses of needing more assists and better ratio, and defense...as he improves them each year. People who say they are glad SLU didn't get Ahearn aren't being objective. He would have helped this year's team. Would have been a solid recruit, who has improved, and is local guy etc... We all expect more from Lisch and Liddell as recruits and will get it...but it doesn't discount the value Ahearn would have brought to the team. With that said, it is one to reemeber put in back of mind, leave it there and move on...as SLU attempts to recruit better players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I fear we will be discussing Ahern on this board for the rest of our days, and we'll make Darren Clarke the most famous 2 year Billiken in the history of the program. Twenty years from now, new posters will be asking "man that Clarke kid must have been something, they're always talking about him." IT WAS 4 FREAKING YEARS AGO, ALREADY! Please, give Blake Ahern his due, let him RIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 My friend from Bradley includes Quin Snyder and Mizzou in the misses of players like Miller and Jamaal Tatum, both dancing on MVC teams, and both from Jeff City. I saw Miller play in person this year against USF, and he is a very good player. Jeff City is right there in Mizzou's backyard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 As far as two-year Billikens go, Darren Clarke will never eclipse Suck-eue Barentine in terms of infamy (in my mind, at least). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 god i hate to get in this thread. but i again want to state, we got to wait until clarke's 2 years even at utep are completed. to make the statements. if he does not more there than what he did here at slu, i will jump on the shoulda bandwagon with everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 A ton of gems in this state and area that you so often on this board say is inferior. You always want to bring up Illinois and their rich history and that's fine, but dont act like the The local talent here isnt very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 50 players hitting 45.2 % or higher in the NCAA 39% is solid but not Great. That was my point. Diener did better, and most people on the board had mixed feelings about diener mostly because his brother and cousin were better. I am hoping Lisch's 42% climbs into the 45 % range.....and DM and LS (if he comes) follows.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouBlue Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 You can check the MVC rosters and find lots of Missouri high school players and quite a few that are post players. Sky Frazier(Washington, MO), Anthony Tolliver(Springfield), Greg Dilligard(small town MO can't remember name), Tony Boyle(DeSoto), Falkner(St Louis), Miller(Jeff City), probably a few others on the Mo St roster also. One thing about these post players, all but Tolliver I believe took a redshirt year. What this means to me is that while there is talented big players in Missouri, there are few that are able to step in and play right away. They need to be developed, kind of like IV has been and hopefully Husak is in process. We have to trust Brad to identify the right kids and get them in here and develop them to where by their 3rd year on campus we are seeing results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Dilligard (Illinois State) is from Highland High School in Ewing, MO, which is in Lewis County. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Dilligard and Frazier were on our radar, but passed by. We were busy pursuing the Marcellus Sommervilles, Colin Falls, and Taj Grays. It is extremely easy to point out four years later that we should have purchased Microsoft stock rather than Yugo stock. You never are wrong AFTER the fact. What we have is a team in the A10, and what the staff recruits is what we get. All the ballyho regarding who we should have recruited is just that - more needless babbling. Five years ago, Charlotte was supposed to have the most marvelous center in the country in Martin Iti. He turned out to be a zero, rather than an NBA lottery pick. Sebastian Telfair was going to be a surefire NBA top pick - only to be eclipsed by the better Shaun Livingston. Our own Ricky Cranford was going to be Larry Hughes shooting guard, and averaged 37 ppg in the New York PHL - never took a shot for SLU. Jimmy McKinney was going to lead Mizzou to four NCAA sweet 16s. Player assessment is a difficult process at best, and Brad's staff has made some inroads with good programs and correct player assessments. We will be dancing when we have six to seven players that have the mental makeup AND physical tools to get the job done. Right now we have three players who are solid 3/4 tool players. We need to get another 4 3/4 tool players in the next two classes to get to the level we seek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 The reason that the MVC rosters are filled with Missouri players is because the nearby BCS conferences....Big12, Big 10, SEC, etc. didn't want them. Last season, I looked at the Yahoo D1 college rosters and my recall is that there was one Missouri player in the Big Ten, three Missouri players in the Pac10, 2 or 3 Missouri players in the SEC, about 10 in the Big 12, none in the Big East, none in the ACC, and only the local SLU players in the old C-USA. At the same time, I believe that there were 25 or so Missouri players in the MVC, of which a dozen played for the St. Louis Eagles AAU team. Keep in mind these numbers consist of players that were freshman, sophs, juniors and seniors, some of whom were redshirted. Talent levels run in cycles.....hopefully the state of Missouri, and more specifically the metro area, is due for a bump in the quantity of high D1 players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenmetz Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 COUGH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 You are just looking at %. I'd rather have a guy shooting 39% on 120 shots than 45% on 60 shots. Ahearn would have helped SLU alot this year. Every MVC school missed on Lisch and Liddell ... so what Vtime ... please quit. If we would have signed every Mickey D's all american player we would be really good Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 this year. If you remember his senior year, he'd bulked up quite a bit and while not exactly great, did more for the Bills than, say Newborne this year. Make fun of Simmons before you start making suck you jokes, tough guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenmetz Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Can we just shut the book on the Romar era? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 but I would rather have both. Even when you look at the top percentages, 32 of the top 50 are greater than 45% some evne took over 200 threes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 My point was not to compare Ahearn and Lisch. The point I was trying to make was that while he might have helped our team, his three point shooting good not excellent. Therefore not the savior to our team Look at the NCAA leaders 50 players above 45.2%, of those 32 greater than 100 shots. Diener bounced form 35-39-42% during his career, yet many on this board thought he got too much playing time. I never expected his shots to go in, he always seemed to frustrate me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouBlue Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 My point in listing the MVC players is that none of them came in right away and played. Almost all had to take a redshirt year and by their sophomore year(3rd year in program) did those players start to contribute to their team. I was pointing this out because while there are big men in Missouri, it appears most are behind development wise at the high school level. What this would mean for SLU is that we need to make sure we have some young post players in the pipeline and fill in JUCOs where possible, if we cannot find more developed players out of state. Obi being the wildcard, because we are not sure what kind of contribution he will bring next year after being out 2 years with his knee injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 It is interesting to see how the evolution of crappy players goes along. I find comfort in the knowledge that the crappiest players we get are better than ever. Clarke and Newborne much better than any SSSSSSimmons or Barentine, and shudder to think going back a few years Tony Manuel and Travis Tadysak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenbooster Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 skip are you sure, skip ? the higher percentage doesn't mean that the team doesn't convert the other 60 possessions, right? If our man converts 6% more but half the attempts, that may not be a slam dunk position to take. It is so deflating to a team to have an opponent who is dead money on every time he gets the ball. maybe youre right, I just wanted to question that position, I guess. mhg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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